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OU Sword and Shield OU Discussion Thread
- Thread starter sol
- Start date
Kinda bored of SS rn, so ill drop some fun teams I made that i think r pretty successful for everyone to enjoy.
imo Pelipper and LO chomp r the most underrated breakers in the tier rn and i hope ppl explore them as options more.
https://pokepast.es/726f37eb32ca4203 - no rocks team
fun, good match up into alot of offense and can crush fat structures with a well timed trick
https://pokepast.es/608312b8b39db4af - Choiced spam, can be CB or expert belt buzz
Fun team, baddy beat some good players like damien and won stour games with it
https://pokepast.es/145c3e4b0f28dbd4 - status spam, hex pult
https://pokepast.es/cf04bd71bebf3b25 - scarf lando, LO chomp
U can bluff scarf kart often, and LO chomp just crushes. I hit number 1 with this a couple times during current gen and have updated it as the meta changes
https://pokepast.es/fae64d17f9d9951f - CM clef team
This team is great at overloading steel types to get a win with cm clef, or allowing lele/pult to pick one everytime, This is the best team ive made in ages, it feels like every match up is playable, I qualified pretty easily with this for the SS ladder tour and went 28-1 on ladder when i initially made it. If you wanna win games use this
imo Pelipper and LO chomp r the most underrated breakers in the tier rn and i hope ppl explore them as options more.
https://pokepast.es/726f37eb32ca4203 - no rocks team
fun, good match up into alot of offense and can crush fat structures with a well timed trick
https://pokepast.es/608312b8b39db4af - Choiced spam, can be CB or expert belt buzz
Fun team, baddy beat some good players like damien and won stour games with it
https://pokepast.es/145c3e4b0f28dbd4 - status spam, hex pult
https://pokepast.es/cf04bd71bebf3b25 - scarf lando, LO chomp
U can bluff scarf kart often, and LO chomp just crushes. I hit number 1 with this a couple times during current gen and have updated it as the meta changes
https://pokepast.es/fae64d17f9d9951f - CM clef team
This team is great at overloading steel types to get a win with cm clef, or allowing lele/pult to pick one everytime, This is the best team ive made in ages, it feels like every match up is playable, I qualified pretty easily with this for the SS ladder tour and went 28-1 on ladder when i initially made it. If you wanna win games use this
Been playing by mostly by stealing teams and I'm confused by why so many teams in this format feel so.... greedy? Specifically when it comes to handling Nidoking?
A lot of teams I steal feel like they get 6-0'd by that guy between running mons that get goobed like Heatran, Clefable, Melmetal, slow Garchomp and Landorus-T etc. and seem like they actively try making their match-up worse vs that Pokemon by running suboptimal choices like Modest Lele so that they get outsped and OHKO'd.... I'm not sure what exactly one can do to "play around it" when 5/6 pokemon used on these teams just get outsped and lose to it. Shouldn't measures be taken to account such Pokemon in the builder on balances teams, espicially given how difficult it can be to handle?
A lot of teams I steal feel like they get 6-0'd by that guy between running mons that get goobed like Heatran, Clefable, Melmetal, slow Garchomp and Landorus-T etc. and seem like they actively try making their match-up worse vs that Pokemon by running suboptimal choices like Modest Lele so that they get outsped and OHKO'd.... I'm not sure what exactly one can do to "play around it" when 5/6 pokemon used on these teams just get outsped and lose to it. Shouldn't measures be taken to account such Pokemon in the builder on balances teams, espicially given how difficult it can be to handle?
It's likely because Nidoking isn't the most common in the meta so they feel they can get away with loosing to it. Not saying this is a good thing.
A Sword and Shield Farm League is tentatively scheduled to be held this autumn to provide players more opportunities to play SS OU games in a tournament setting! Please contact me if you're interested in captaining a team, as we need users who are capable of managing a variety of players (from experienced to being new to the tier) throughout the course of a season .
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Bumping this - we'd like a few more captain pairings before we move to player signups!A Sword and Shield Farm League is tentatively scheduled to be held this autumn to provide players more opportunities to play SS OU games in a tournament setting! Please contact me if you're interested in captaining a team, as we need users who are capable of managing a variety of players (from experienced to being new to the tier) throughout the course of a season
Edit: Managing will not prevent you from playing in this tournament!
Hi, does anyone have any thoughts about the current 'Resto Chesto Goltres' HO sample?
I'm wondering if it's still a good team overall, on both Gen8OU ladder and in tours.
And I'm wondering if there are any tips on how to use it effectively. And/or replays of it winning, would be really nice to watch if possible.
Thanks for any thoughts!
I'm wondering if it's still a good team overall, on both Gen8OU ladder and in tours.
And I'm wondering if there are any tips on how to use it effectively. And/or replays of it winning, would be really nice to watch if possible.
Thanks for any thoughts!
It's still a good team - it wouldn't be on the sample teams thread if it wasn't! I don't have any replays at hand, but it works like any other HO team - identify what Pokemon can win you the game and construct a gameplan around them.
Feel free to submit teams to me that you feel are worthy of being sample teams!
Usage stats for Rising Stars for those interested
Pokemon Usage Usage % Win % 
Landorus-Therian 42 52.50% 50.00% 
Heatran 38 47.50% 55.26% 
Clefable 29 36.25% 44.83% 
Dragapult 26 32.50% 46.15% 
Weavile 22 27.50% 54.55% 
Ferrothorn 20 25.00% 75.00% 
Zapdos 20 25.00% 65.00% 
Corviknight 20 25.00% 25.00% 
Urshifu 19 23.75% 63.16% 
Kartana 19 23.75% 42.11% 
Tapu Lele 18 22.50% 44.44% 
Garchomp 16 20.00% 62.50% 
Tornadus-Therian 15 18.75% 60.00% 
Slowbro 13 16.25% 69.23% 
Slowking-Galar 12 15.00% 50.00% 
Melmetal 12 15.00% 33.33% 
Rotom-Wash 11 13.75% 54.55% 
Buzzwole 10 12.50% 70.00% 
Toxapex 9 11.25% 11.11% 
Dragonite 8 10.00% 62.50% 
Hippowdon 8 10.00% 12.50% 
Tyranitar 7 8.75% 57.14% 
Gastrodon 7 8.75% 57.14% 
Magnezone 7 8.75% 57.14% 
Rillaboom 7 8.75% 42.86% 
Tapu Fini 7 8.75% 42.86% 
Excadrill 6 7.50% 66.67% 
Tapu Koko 6 7.50% 33.33% 
Volcanion 5 6.25% 40.00% 
Blissey 5 6.25% 20.00% 
Blacephalon 4 5.00% 50.00% 
Blaziken 4 5.00% 50.00% 
Skarmory 3 3.75% 100.00% 
Nidoking 3 3.75% 33.33% 
Zeraora 2 2.50% 50.00% 
Ninetales-Alola 2 2.50% 50.00% 
Arctozolt 2 2.50% 50.00% 
Slowking 2 2.50% 50.00% 
Scizor 2 2.50% 50.00% 
Victini 2 2.50% 0.00% 
Volcarona 1 1.25% 100.00% 
Mandibuzz 1 1.25% 100.00% 
Zarude-Dada 1 1.25% 0.00% 
Chansey 1 1.25% 0.00% 
Audino 1 1.25% 0.00% 
Jirachi 1 1.25% 0.00% 
Crawdaunt 1 1.25% 0.00% 
Regieleki 1 1.25% 0.00% 
Rotom-Heat 1 1.25% 0.00% 
Tapu Bulu 1 1.25% 0.00%
Whoever used Audino, I need to know your reasoning.
Sample teams have been updated! Big thank you to Big Boi, Slowpoke Fan, ILoveGarchom, Lacks (and MANNAT since he built the original structure) and Hazardeur for the teams!
Got permission from Slowpoke Fan to post this here
I am organizing a Gen 8 Hax Meters OU Tournament.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gen-8-hax-meters-ou-tournament-20-in-prizes-kings-rock-unbanned.3779330/
Hax Meters is a metagame where a point system is used for most of the hax in the game, excluding damage calculations.
I am organizing a Gen 8 Hax Meters OU Tournament.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gen-8-hax-meters-ou-tournament-20-in-prizes-kings-rock-unbanned.3779330/
Hax Meters is a metagame where a point system is used for most of the hax in the game, excluding damage calculations.
Guys, i want to ask if an important test had been done. Because if it hadn't, we should do it because it could have serious implications for the Sword and Shield meta. And can force some action.
Test is as follows:
- Take a generic Chansey that has never learned Teleport: Caught in Sword/Shield, Scarlet/Violet, GO...
- Put it in Pokémon HOME(3.0.0)
- Use Change Moves.
- Select Sword/Shield as the destination game.
- Check if Teleport appears as an available move.
If it does appear as avaliable, it means any Chansey can learn it just because it was teachable in LGPE. You know what Chansey is included in that list? Pokémon Center New York 2004/05 Chansey. The one which had Wish.
Moreover, it can imply that Gen 1 and 2 moves are now compatible with Gen 3 to 7 moves.
I think it's worth testing if we haven't done it yet.
Test is as follows:
- Take a generic Chansey that has never learned Teleport: Caught in Sword/Shield, Scarlet/Violet, GO...
- Put it in Pokémon HOME(3.0.0)
- Use Change Moves.
- Select Sword/Shield as the destination game.
- Check if Teleport appears as an available move.
If it does appear as avaliable, it means any Chansey can learn it just because it was teachable in LGPE. You know what Chansey is included in that list? Pokémon Center New York 2004/05 Chansey. The one which had Wish.
Moreover, it can imply that Gen 1 and 2 moves are now compatible with Gen 3 to 7 moves.
I think it's worth testing if we haven't done it yet.
Hey! So, I'm not really an ROA guy, so pardon if this isn't the right way to post something like this, but I wanted to get the word out about some interesting additions that just happened and will be happening with Gen 8 thanks to Pokemon Home updates.
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^ This is now 100% legal in SWSH!
Back in June of this year, Pokemon Home updated and caused something interesting. The update to interface with Pokemon SV led to a situation we haven’t seen in 23 years: backwards compatibility with old generations. Pokemon can be sent to and from SV to and the other SWSH...
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^ This is now 100% legal in SWSH!
Back in June of this year, Pokemon Home updated and caused something interesting. The update to interface with Pokemon SV led to a situation we haven’t seen in 23 years: backwards compatibility with old generations. Pokemon can be sent to and from SV to and the other SWSH...
This thread already goes over this sort of stuff but tl;dr is that move combos like wish + teleport Blissey are incompatible, as Wish comes from gen 3 games whereas Teleport would come from the gen 1 VC/LGPE. There are two other posts in the thread which explain it better than I can to be honest so I'll just link them
I'm a little scared that after looking at some discussion that happened on the smogon discord while I was asleep that I might not have made what exactly changed as clear as possible to folks who might not be as in touch of where some moves come from.. I tried to make an infographic explaining what exactly changed perhaps a bit more clearly. I'm hopeful it clears up a bit of some confusion since I saw some serious woe about teleport + softboiled clefable shifting through chats; that's not happening.
Even if it the combo would be cart legal, Tiering admins have effectively blocked these sorts of move compatibility/"tradebacks" changes from being put into place in the actual tiers, plus given the response in the thread and some chatter I've had with some people on discord over the years since there's no real appetite to add what would essentially be a small handful of niche new sets to the metagame.
yo why did the links blow the fuck up
I know they could not be put together before, but the main question is about the Home 3.0. update. In this update, now you could individually for each game change a Pokémon's moveset, in the Home itself, using a Switch.
And the main question is simple, is Teleport able to be teached to any generic Chansey, that never touched Gen 1 or 2 cartridges or the LGPE games, using that Home mechanic?
Even if it doesn't end legal in Sword and Shield, it is theoretically legal for future iterations of NDex which is already something i guess.
ngl i doubt you're going to find you're answer here and are probably better off asking somewhere in the orange islands forum but regardless of the answer the end result would stay the same for the meta
Tiering admin blocked these sorts of legality updates because Reasons so even if you can it won't have any effect on the metagame
For clarity's sake, even if something changed with how HOME worked and we were suddenly inundated with new "legal" sets, Smogon's policy on tradebacks and changes to what is obtainable in a generation is historically clear: nothing changes. SS is effectively a locked generation, meaning that no changes are to be made to the tier outside of standard tiering action which should only effect what is currently in the tier. As cool as it would be to suddenly inject SS with some new juice, it's not going to happen.
I am going to step away from the SS OU tiering council soon when I take a hiatus, so just wanted to give some public thoughts on the metagame and hopefully they can fill my spot with someone who will keep up with the metagame moving forward. This community is starting to grow as an old generation and I want everyone who is passionate about the metagame to enjoy!
I think that a lot of people adopted the "SS is boring" attitude as soon as it became an old generation because balance is strong, the metagame adapted at a much slower pace than SV due to being less active, and it had yet to establish itself as an old gen like other FairyGens. I actually feel every "new" old generation took a few years to get its footing dating back to BW, which is how long I have been playing.
I actually think SS is one of the more balanced and competitive formats out there. Bulky offense is underrated and has a ton of options, classic SS balance is still plenty usable of course, and you can make weather, set-up spam, and other more extreme offenses work as well. The one archetype I find very limited is actuall stall, which is funny considering how the community claims this generation is too passive and stally. If people would be interested, I could drop some of the offenses I have used the last year or two just to give examples of the range the metagame has, but I will pass for now until after Masters, which I am debating playing.
I personally would not ban anything from SS now and I think we are seeing more adaptation over the last year than we did the whole two years prior, but I do want to shed some light on the more controversial Pokemon in the metagame.
I think that a lot of people adopted the "SS is boring" attitude as soon as it became an old generation because balance is strong, the metagame adapted at a much slower pace than SV due to being less active, and it had yet to establish itself as an old gen like other FairyGens. I actually feel every "new" old generation took a few years to get its footing dating back to BW, which is how long I have been playing.
I actually think SS is one of the more balanced and competitive formats out there. Bulky offense is underrated and has a ton of options, classic SS balance is still plenty usable of course, and you can make weather, set-up spam, and other more extreme offenses work as well. The one archetype I find very limited is actuall stall, which is funny considering how the community claims this generation is too passive and stally. If people would be interested, I could drop some of the offenses I have used the last year or two just to give examples of the range the metagame has, but I will pass for now until after Masters, which I am debating playing.
I personally would not ban anything from SS now and I think we are seeing more adaptation over the last year than we did the whole two years prior, but I do want to shed some light on the more controversial Pokemon in the metagame.
- Blaziken is really annoying as it snowballs on some older teams (Rotom-W Sand, Clefable balance without Slowbro, some Grassy spam BO, etc.), but I think newer builds are adapting to it ok. For a couple months I considered it a problem, but the more I build, the more I accept it and embrace some recent metagame surgers like Dragonite, Tapu Fini, and Victini.
- Melmetal was technically the last suspect of SS and I get why. It is so strong and so bulky, but it does get hurt a lot by lacking recovery and being a slow mono-Steel Pokemon. I find these limitations enough for natural counterplay to contain it. We are seeing less Clefable without Knock Off or Flamethrower, more Rocky Helmet on Pokemon like Tapu Fini, and fewer Slowking-Galar without Flamethrower or Focus Blast to limit entry, but I think this is all healthy interaction within the metagame.
- Tapu Lele is a really hard one to assess as the closest to broken sets rely on Focus Blast (CM LO) or picking the right move (Specs) while Choice Scarf is easily the most splashable and pragmatic. I would not suspect it, but it feels perpetualy "on the radar" for me.
- Weavile, Dragapult, and Heatran have been talked to death in these discussions, but I still would not ban any. Really great Pokemon that you feel the presence of in teambuilding constantly, but none are too much.
- Garchomp is sneakily on the radar for me due to SD + Scale Shot variants. It can snowball out of control quickly, but people just slap on Weavile so much to not even worry about it. Grassy Glide Rillaboom, Rocky Helmet Ice Punch Buzzwole, and a few other things help at least. I would not ban it, but one of the hardest Pokemon to be prepared for, in my opinion.
The tier should take a serious look at zamazenta-H being suspected down. Only zama-c was tested in gen 8 it was considered too bulky and restrictive, and despite having solid defensive counter play wasn’t unbanned. When gen-9 came out and both zamas got a chance in ou crowned obviously was banned and the weaker zama stayed. But for some reason Zama-h never got that opportunity in gen 8 and I believe gen 8 is a tier it would have a much healthier impact on.
I’d argue zama was much less broken pre body press and the gen 8 tier offers more viable checks against it like slowbro, buzzwole, pex, aegislash, volc. Not to mention its checks that already exist in gen 9 like lando or torn of clef
It not having the steel type allows the finis to flip the matchup and allows slowking-g to fight it. And just destroys its defensive profile and loses great stab coverage
I remember hearing that when zam-c was tested zam h wasn’t allowed because it had an item slot which is stupid that’s like banning regular salamance but allowing mega salamence because he doesn’t have an item slot.(hyperbole)
I think it’s possible that zam-h can add some offense to the tier but at the very least it can generate some interest.
I’d argue zama was much less broken pre body press and the gen 8 tier offers more viable checks against it like slowbro, buzzwole, pex, aegislash, volc. Not to mention its checks that already exist in gen 9 like lando or torn of clef
It not having the steel type allows the finis to flip the matchup and allows slowking-g to fight it. And just destroys its defensive profile and loses great stab coverage
I remember hearing that when zam-c was tested zam h wasn’t allowed because it had an item slot which is stupid that’s like banning regular salamance but allowing mega salamence because he doesn’t have an item slot.(hyperbole)
I think it’s possible that zam-h can add some offense to the tier but at the very least it can generate some interest.
Just why
The reason Zamazenta Crowned is considered worse than Hero in this tier is because there is more downsides to flexibility in SWSH than in SV because if something Teras on your Choice Band or something, they can just kill you back. Choice Band Fighting Type + Future Sight is already something that this tier is accustomed to and we know it's something that can break teams. But the other Fighting types have significantly worse stats across the board.
Let's say Slowbro + Band Zamazenta Hero:
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 129-152 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- 4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+
0 SpA Slowbro Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 141-166 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- 90.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not a real switch even from full.
Of course, this isn't unique damage numbers to Zamazenta, but it's easier to check the other ones because you can outspeed and kill it a lot of the time. Zamazenta Hero outspeeds Koko. It outspeeds Arctozolt in Hail. It outspeeds anything relevant under Dragapult. It puts a lot more pressure on the builder because the barrier to entry to revenge kill and threaten it back is immense, and essentially boils down to Dragapult or a Scarfer after it gets its Future Sight kill.
Urshifu can crit past its free defense boost, but:
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 294-346 (86.2 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 294-346 (86.2 - 101.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
If it just gets a little chip its extremely likely to just be one shot.
You can of course bring in a second defensive check, which almost certainly exists on your team, but most of them the Zamazenta team will also have a check for and are passive. This isn't to say you can't play around Zamazenta Hero + Future Sight or anything, to be clear. I don't think it'd make games uncompetitive, but I think it would warp the tier in an undesirable direction. Its speed is too much, its defense is too high, and its attack stat is too good combined with those for SWSH, a tier that is significantly less power-crept than SV.
And why do we need to warp the tier either way? Onto the last sentence which earns a tangent from me:
I don't think this tier needs more interest; it's a fine wine situation. IMO this tier is the closest thing in a fairy gen to ADV OU, something that is an acquired taste at the time but its balance (with a few hiccups, all of which manageable still) will be more and more appreciated as time moves on and the tier cements a playerbase that loves that balance. The tier had a negative reputation when everyone was forced to play it, but as the playerbase becomes more and more concentrated of people that just... want to play a tier like it, it comes into its own more and more every year.
A few years ago if you said SWSH OU was great then you'd be burned at the stake. Boring tier yawn zzz. Now you say it and even people that disagree are more like "That's fair I'm not a fan of xyz."
This is all to say that there is no need to suspect things down just to "generate some interest", and while Zamazenta has a lot of checks it's just something that can disrupt the balance that people that play the tier nowadays love, at least I feel. I might just be out of touch. I just think that the tier doesn't need any tiering action and that the tier will naturally come into its own over time, no need to force interest or shift around things to make people look at it.
First off, the comparison with gen 9 feels fairly irrelevant to me considering that both zamazentas got Body Press in gen 9, which allowed them to run the Iron Defense sets we see in SVOU. Zamazenta's superior typing and higher defense which, I'm assuming is what made it better than its hero counterpart in SVOU, isn't nearly as valuable in SSOU where neither of them learn Body Press.
Therefore, the idea that Zama-h would be weaker than Zama-C because such is the case in SV is flawed in my humble opinion.
We can both agree that both zamazentas were a lot weaker pre body press. That's about everything I personnally agree with though.
Briefly going through some of the checks you mentioned, assuming that zamazenta managed to get a single Howl (which let's be real, wouldn't be difficult)
+1 252 Atk Zamazenta Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 344-406 (87.3 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Clef is not a check + you could run stuff like expert belt and OHKO. Here is what clef deals in return:
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 174-206 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 312-368 (81.6 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ebelt is a 90% chance to OHKO. What do you do in return? Toxic if you have it, EQ deals 30%
Buzzwole is a very awkward check, assuming no psychic fangs means that it needs to be running toxic to deal with Zama-H comfortably, otherwise having to click weird close combats to deal anything significant (still doesn't 2hko).
Aegislash is not nearly common enough and is still not the most reliable (no reliable recovery, +1 crunch with ebelt has a 40% chance to ohko uninvested Aegislash, and not even specs can ohko without clicking steel beam of all moves.
Slowking-galar:
+1 252 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 248 HP / 12 Def Slowking-Galar: 310-366 (78.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Crunch vs. 248 HP / 12 Def Slowking-Galar: 372-439 (94.6 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Crunch vs. 248 HP / 12 Def Slowking-Galar: 408-482 (103.8 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As for Tornadus:
+1 252 Atk Zamazenta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Tornadus-Therian: 354-418 (97.7 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Zamazenta Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Tornadus-Therian: 230-272 (63.5 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Zamazenta Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Tornadus-Therian: 318-376 (87.8 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
What you deal in return (assuming you don't miss a 70% accuracy move too)
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 228-270 (70.1 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Volcarona and Slowbro can probably do fine.
Keep in mind that all of these calcs assume that there are no hazards whatsoever on the battlefield, and are for zama-h's that would run heavy duty boots (most likely set in my opinion) or leftovers. That is also without mentioning the inevitable adamant sets that will greatly improve these rolls without requiring the help of an offensive item.
My point being, that a lot of your so called checks get absolutely bodied by howl zamazenta variations, or by a not so difficult prediction on the banded one (not so difficult in the sense that with such as ridiculous bulk, failing your prediction and getting hit definitely isn't the end of the world.) Furthermore, this bulk also means that it is awfully difficult to revenge kill, taking the tapus as examples since you mentioned them (mostly Fini and Koko since Lele does kill (scarf moonblast is still a roll), and Bulu well, its Bulu.:
252 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 222-264 (68.3 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 188-224 (57.8 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Little bonus:
Dragapult: 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 235-277 (72.3 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's not a hyperbole, and what you heard isn't stupid, you are just missing the point. The problem is not that Zama-H can run an item and Zama-C can't.
The problem is that Zama-H being able to run an item makes it A LOT more dangerous than Zama-C.
Taking your Salamence example, Mega salamence being banned in SMOU has nothing to do with whether or not it can run an item, it is banned because it is too strong, that's all. Regular Salamence is legal in SMOU, not because it can run an item or something, but because it isn't as strong as its mega counterpart. The important factor isn't the item slot, it's the pokemon's overall strength. Calling a statement stupid isn't the best look when it turns out that you just misunderstood it in the first place so let's try to keep the little talks we still have on this thread kinda civil?
The one question I really want to ask you is the same as GarchomFan asked before me: why ?
From what I remember, part of the reasoning for the Zama-C suspect was that it could function as a solid knock off absorber as well as a check to some pokemon which included the problematic Kyurem, and others such as Weavile, Kartana, Tornadus, Rillaboom...
Now what would be the reasoning to add Zama-H ? Putting aside discussions regarding whether or not it would be broken, what currently needs "fixing" ?
The metagame has stabilized, kyurem is banned, and I don't think a lot of people view the mons I mentioned as particularly overwhelming ? Zama-H also does not have this unique property of being immune to knock off removing its item (or to trick I guess). To "add some offense" is a very vague idea, and in my opinion, an incorrect one, as I would expect it to be particularly strong against offense itself due to its ability to easily trade against offense staples, and the possibility of running a choice scarf set that could literally outspeed the entire metagame and be a nightmare for offensive-minded squads (akin to what scarf urshifu can currently do).
To me, even under the assumption that it would somehow not be broken (which I do not believe a single bit), adding Zama-H to SSOU would not provide anything of value to the tier that would be worth risking the current stability of the metagame.
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