Pokémon Talonflame

[Synral]

is everybody and their mother just running 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 Def Jolly on their talons? every opposing talonflame I've run into on PS! has always outsped me when we both attempt to Brave Bird, and it's getting rather old :(

on a more serious note, these are the two Talon sets that I've been using

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
Trait: Gale Wings
92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Bulk Up

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
Trait: Gale Wings
92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- U-turn

I actually really prefer the former, as it sets up on Scizor with impunity and cushions things like Extremespeed and M-Kanga's Fake Out and can Roost off the recoil damage. Life Orb and Dance could murder things if I had a turn to set up, but I found myself killing Talonflame extremely quickly with all the recoil. the latter functions as a cleaner, tearing through a lot of weakened shit like a hot knife through butter, but I feel like the set could be just as effective if I took out every move that isn't Brave Bird (I think in 20 games I used U-turn once?)

Naturally though, the best set by far is Swords Dance + Acrobatics + Flying Gem, though FG is unobtainable at the moment. I'm seeing a lot of people running Talon with no item just to emulate it which seems really subpar.

 

[Kejmur]

BTW when we talk about Acrobatics set, I wouldn't really recommend it, but it's an option if you still want to have comparable to STAB Brave Bird with only 10 less power. I say it only to WiFi players, as obviously in PokeBank you have access to Flying Gem.

Talonflame @ Fire Gem
~ Acrobatics
~ Flare Blitz
~ Swords Dance
~ Filler (WoW, Tailwind, Steel Wing, Roost, etc.)

Anyway, idea is simple. You double power of Acrobatics by not using it, but your Fire STAB attack. After you use your Fire Gem, you have 110 base power STAB Flying attack to work with. IMO this idea is still subpar, but on WiFi this may be an option, if you really hate the idea of having two heavy recoil STAB attacks to use.

EDIT: I thought Fire Gem was actually available ? Well, stupid rumours I guess (why I fell for this one)... Ok, than I guess WiFi players still can't use Acrobatics in reliable way.

 

[Sylphnir]

And Fire Gem is available where in X/Y... ?
I was under the impression that the single Normal Gem found in Terminus Cave is still the only confirmed gem in Gen6, isn't it?
Besides PokeBank won't fix the Flying Gem problem as far as I know, you can't transfer items with it.

 

[All-ice]

No Recoil Set:

Adamant@ None
252 Hp/Atk 4 speed

Roost
Bulk Up
Flame Charge
Acrobatics

Would this set be viable?

I've been using it on Battle Spot and so far it's actually working, but I only face a descent person every 5 matches or so.

 

[alexwolf]

No Recoil Set:

Adamant@ None
252 Hp/Atk 4 speed

Roost
Bulk Up
Flame Charge
Acrobatics

Would this set be viable?

I've been using it on Battle Spot and so far it's actually working, but I only face a descent person every 5 matches or so.

There is no reason to use item-less Acrobatics over Brave Bird + Leftovers. You get a ~10% stronger Flying move and constant healing every turn, which more than makes up for the recoil from Brave Bird (and you have Roost to offset the Brave Bird recoil anyway). However, using Flame Charge to grab a few Speed boosts alongside the Bulk Up boosts is something that could work but the power loss compared to Flare Blitz is huge and so prepare to be checked by Skarmory.

 

[klvkboom]

Just wondering, but how much speed are you guys running for your Talonflame? I'm seeing 168 EVs to beat max speed Jirachi, but I also see that Mega Pinsir is a possible threat, in which case you'll need 208 EVs with a neutral nature to Brave Bird him before he Quick Attacks you.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Just wondering, but how much speed are you guys running for your Talonflame? I'm seeing 168 EVs to beat max speed Jirachi, but I also see that Mega Pinsir is a possible threat, in which case you'll need 208 EVs with a neutral nature to Brave Bird him before he Quick Attacks you.

I've seen a lot of people run 60 Spe with an Adamant nature so that you can still outspeed Jolly Excadrill and OHKO with Flare Blitz. Nearly everything faster than that is hit hard enough by a priority +2 Flying Gem Acrobatics (or Sharp Beak Brave Bird, if you're not playing Pokebank OU). You could run more speed for Mega Pinsir, but its unboosted Quick Attack isn't quite breaking 50% damage against 192/4 Talonflame, so you can still take the hit and KO back.

 

[Tesung]

I run max speed for other talonflames, but hey that's just me. I would outrun mega pinsir, as it is a huge threat, and it's plus 2 quick attack koes after rocks. And btw, every mega pinsir should be jolly

 

[OVERGRO]

Although Talonflame is at a great loss with the removal of the Flying Gem from its tool kit, I think there are a few other viable items I have been using that may or may not have been brought up.

Between Brave Bird and Flare Blitz, Talonflame ends up taking a lot of recoil damage. This, combined with hits from other pokemon can have it down on its HP pretty quickly.

First of all, this gives good use to the Sitrus Berry, for obvious reasons. Talon’s HP drops... and then goes right back up that same turn. In fact, in some cases this can result in a net gain in HP just for taking recoil! If you’re playing singles, it can soften switching into Stealth Rock if you really need to switch in for the kill. If you’re playing wifi or Doubles, this can help a lot.

Second of all, one of my favourite items has been the Leichi Berry! This could possibly used with a lower HP stat (EVs switched to defence / sp. Defence), but I don’t find that worth the risk. In 6 vs. 6 singles, this could mean an instant (temporary) +1 boost just for switching into SR.

In a way, Leichi works like a reverse Flying Gem... right when you’re about to fall, Leichi gives you that extra boost to perhaps make that KO, or attempt a sweep (until of course you die to recoil or Roost away the damage after you’ve eliminated a counter).

Try it out!

(Liechi = mutation between Hondew and Yache berries if you want to try it in-game)

 

[RufflesPro]

Although Talonflame is at a great loss with the removal of the Flying Gem from its tool kit, I think there are a few other viable items I have been using that may or may not have been brought up.

Between Brave Bird and Flare Blitz, Talonflame ends up taking a lot of recoil damage. This, combined with hits from other pokemon can have it down on its HP pretty quickly.

First of all, this gives good use to the Sitrus Berry, for obvious reasons. Talon’s HP drops... and then goes right back up that same turn. In fact, in some cases this can result in a net gain in HP just for taking recoil! If you’re playing singles, it can soften switching into Stealth Rock if you really need to switch in for the kill. If you’re playing wifi or Doubles, this can help a lot.

Second of all, one of my favourite items has been the Leichi Berry! This could possibly used with a lower HP stat (EVs switched to defence / sp. Defence), but I don’t find that worth the risk. In 6 vs. 6 singles, this could mean an instant (temporary) +1 boost just for switching into SR.

In a way, Leichi works like a reverse Flying Gem... right when you’re about to fall, Leichi gives you that extra boost to perhaps make that KO, or attempt a sweep (until of course you die to recoil or Roost away the damage after you’ve eliminated a counter).

Try it out!

(Liechi = mutation between Hondew and Yache berries if you want to try it in-game)

One of the main reasons Gale Wings is awesome is: Priority Roost and priority roost is what you need to recover recoil, a Life Orb is better than sitrus berry IMO, though Liechi can be good, Bulk Up AND swords dance are better and lets you hold a better item (again maybe LO)

 

[OVERGRO]

One of the main reasons Gale Wings is awesome is: Priority Roost and priority roost is what you need to recover recoil, a Life Orb is better than sitrus berry IMO, though Liechi can be good, Bulk Up AND swords dance are better and lets you hold a better item (again maybe LO)

Priority Roost is awesome, yes, and it does let you recover when you need it. However, if you're going to get OHKO'd on the turn that you decide to Roost, i.e. can't find an appropriate time to Roost, with all that recoil stacking up, Liechi can end up helping you go out with a bang. Also, not sure if Life Orb gets you any necessary KOs that would be missed otherwise. Also, you could still totally run Roost/Bulk Up/SD/Recoil moves with the berry! In fact, its great that way because if you get down to berry health you can, like you said, priority Roost; particularly once you've just eliminated a counter you couldn't without the surprise +1.

Overall, to each his/her own. I would say they are good for different reasons but it's worth considering when you're thinking about Talonflame for a Singles, Wifi, or Doubles team.

 

[Nysyr]

Just wondering, but how much speed are you guys running for your Talonflame? I'm seeing 168 EVs to beat max speed Jirachi, but I also see that Mega Pinsir is a possible threat, in which case you'll need 208 EVs with a neutral nature to Brave Bird him before he Quick Attacks you.

168 to outspeed 101 is the best, as Pinsir will be running Adamant nearly guarenteed. Without Adamant his quick attack probably won't OHKO you at +2.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

I've been using this set and I want too see if I should change sd with bulk up and if my evs could be improved
BlackWing (Talonflame) @ Flying Gem
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 60 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

I've been using this set and I want too see if I should change sd with bulk up and if my evs could be improved
BlackWing (Talonflame) @ Flying Gem
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 60 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Nope. That's pretty mucch the standard, except with less speed I think.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

what speed should I hit?

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

what speed should I hit?

I thought the standard was ...... Well, I can't think tonight, but maybe 164 spe? Don't quote me on it.

 

[Shiruba]

I thought the standard was ...... Well, I can't think tonight, but maybe 164 spe? Don't quote me on it.

Nah, 60 is the standard as far as I know. What does 164 outspeed, again? Heliosk?

 

[muramusaw8]

Jolly with 64 spe evs outspeeds positive speed-nature Garchomp; Adamant with 184 evs does the same.
Adamant with 164 spe evs outspeeds positive speed-nature base 100 'Mons. Jolly with 168 spe evs outspeeds positive speed-nature base 115 'Mons.

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

Giving up on trying to build a Team around Charizard, much to my dismay, I've decided to include Talonflame as a Relic of that Design. Anyway, I have a question. What would be the Nature to shoot for, Jolly or Adamant? With Adamant you can maximize Damage with Talonflame and Talonflame's Gale Wings and Naturally high Speed makes it seem like it'd be the better of the two, but which one would be the better ability to use in the long run?

 

[Zero Hour 17]

I've been having a ton of luck running

Talonflame@Leftovers
Ability:Gale Wings
EVS: 252 Hp/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-Roost
-U-turn

 

[Professor Birch]

I have not done any calcs yet but this is a set I believe I am going to use. It seems fitting imo.

Talonflame@ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
252 Atk/196 HP/60 Speed
-Flame Charge
-Brave Bird
-Steel Wing
-U-Turn

If need be, I can explain when I can get onto my computer.

 

[stage7_4]

While being unreleased pretty much shuts down any gem sets, the battle mechanics thread just found out that gems only increase power by 30%, not 50%.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokémon-battle-mechanics-research.3489239/page-40

 

[TheTtarManCan]

While being unreleased pretty much shuts down any gem sets, the battle mechanics thread just found out that gems only increase power by 30%, not 50%.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokémon-battle-mechanics-research.3489239/page-40

30% from a consumable item? That sounds pretty silly. I guess gems are no longer usable on anything that doesn't really on acrobatics? I'm seriously in shock at this. 30% once per match or 30% with 1/10 health loss each use. That's a real shame. I thought gems were an interesting addition to the meta game in 5th gen. Sigh.

 

[Thorhammer]

30% from a consumable item? That sounds pretty silly. I guess gems are no longer usable on anything that doesn't really on acrobatics? I'm seriously in shock at this. 30% once per match or 30% with 1/10 health loss each use. That's a real shame. I thought gems were an interesting addition to the meta game in 5th gen. Sigh.

Acrobatics would require a Flying Gem, which doesn't even exist anymore, so not even that; they're just completely worthless.

Item-less Acrobatics sets are still doable, though.

 

[n3ther]

30% from a consumable item? That sounds pretty silly. I guess gems are no longer usable on anything that doesn't really on acrobatics? I'm seriously in shock at this. 30% once per match or 30% with 1/10 health loss each use. That's a real shame. I thought gems were an interesting addition to the meta game in 5th gen. Sigh.

Really? Gems were absurdly overpowered. It allowed draco meteor spam which completely centralized the doubles meta. Flying gem acrobatics was another super powered move that dented anything that didn't resist it.