His base defenses are actually worse than tyranitar's, which makes him even easier to revenge kill.
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Terrakion
- Thread starter Ditto
- Start date
His base defenses are actually worse than tyranitar's, which makes him even easier to revenge kill.
Luckily for us, we're not going to use Terrakion defensively.
And unlike Tyranitar, Terrakion actually outspeeds some shit. And the fact fighting is one of the best pairings possible with rock (the rock typing grants neutrality on the still rare flying attacks while fighting gives it some nice resistances like Rock, bug (U-Turn...) and Dark attacks, only adding a Psychic weakness) and the absolutely best typing to be paired with rock offensively (i mean... it's fighting/Rock for god's sake) speaks a lot.
The fact is that... well, it's a Rock pokemon. That means 3 weaknesses to priority attacks, and fighting covers none of those. It has decent/good defenses (great if Sandstorm is on play), it's fast, it's poweful, but it's still a rock typed poke. 4 weaknesses to common attacks. ouch.
And unlike Tyranitar, Terrakion actually outspeeds some shit. And the fact fighting is one of the best pairings possible with rock (the rock typing grants neutrality on the still rare flying attacks while fighting gives it some nice resistances like Rock, bug (U-Turn...) and Dark attacks, only adding a Psychic weakness) and the absolutely best typing to be paired with rock offensively (i mean... it's fighting/Rock for god's sake) speaks a lot.
The fact is that... well, it's a Rock pokemon. That means 3 weaknesses to priority attacks, and fighting covers none of those. It has decent/good defenses (great if Sandstorm is on play), it's fast, it's poweful, but it's still a rock typed poke. 4 weaknesses to common attacks. ouch.
Fake Out's a fairly common move in VGC play that shuts this strategy down pretty quickly, so I don't see it being used very often.
I've been running an adamant Sub 3-attacks LO Set that works like a charm. Admittedly surprise factor is a big deal here, but it still hits like a truck even without boosts. I used to run expert belt but the extra power from LO is highly appreciated. Survivability may be an issue but survivability will be an issue on any terrakion set. Lots of pokes that would be safe switches from the scarf set will at least be 2hko'd by this set.
Decided to bump this thread to say that SubSD Terrakion is a force of nature. I would go as far as saying its the best physical sweeper in the metagame, ahead of Dragonite, Haxorus, Landorus, and all the other competitors for the title. First and foremost, Substitute protects Terrakion from random status moves, and gives it a much easier time setting up. It also eases prediction should you anticipate your opponent switching out. Finally, it provides a buffer against potential revenge killers such as Scizor, Scarf Terrakion, and the like. As they waste a turn breaking the Sub, Terrakion breaks them with a Close Combat or Stone Edge.
Seems like it could be a better idea than the Double Dance set in many situations. Normally Rock Polish combats offensive teams but leaves you helpless against priority, whereas Sub practically guarantees you one KO or more without having to lure out Scizor/etc beforehand. Not to mention how it helps even more against Stall!
Sub-SD Terakkion does indeed seem viable. I'm assuming a set would look something like:
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
I'm a bit skeptical of Life Orb, since that can add up quite a bit with Substitute and Spikes (even if Spikes aren't too common nowadays), though with Wish support it could work. Actually, speaking of support, this could potentially be used with the aforementioned Haxorus or Dragonite since it can clear steels for them, or at least dent walls.
The only problem with this is that he misses out on speed from Rock Polish/Quick Attack, and misses some slight coverage moves such as X-Scissor, but I think protection from status and priority as well as eased prediction makes up for that.
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
I'm a bit skeptical of Life Orb, since that can add up quite a bit with Substitute and Spikes (even if Spikes aren't too common nowadays), though with Wish support it could work. Actually, speaking of support, this could potentially be used with the aforementioned Haxorus or Dragonite since it can clear steels for them, or at least dent walls.
The only problem with this is that he misses out on speed from Rock Polish/Quick Attack, and misses some slight coverage moves such as X-Scissor, but I think protection from status and priority as well as eased prediction makes up for that.
Nidoking and Nidoqueen as well...
X-scissor is an important coverage move for Terrakion... what am I saying I don't use it.
Go a head everyone, use Terrakion without X-scissor, that would be amazing.
Go a head everyone, use Terrakion without X-scissor, that would be amazing.
Rock Gem is a nice item to put onto Terrakion to fake a Choice Band. It also ensures you don't have the LO+Sub recoil problems. IMO, Rock Polish is a bit overrated in the current meta. Terrakion can usually only grab one boost, and it should go for SD in most cases with priority running rampant and walls such as Slowbro who take pittance from unboosted Stone Edge. X-Scissor coverage is god awful. It provides coverage against Celebi and Claydol, and that's pretty much it.
I used Substitute on Terrakion, even when Rock Polish was more appealing because you could outspeed Excadrill and Deoxys-S at the time. But with Terrakion's typing and power, and how he forces the opponent to shuffle around until they find their Scizor, the Pokemon they send in to fodder the Close Combat, is the turn where you Substitute and THEN OHKO the following turn. I first used it with Air Balloon because it was easy to set yourself a sub. infront of Excadrill, who often lacked Brick Break.
Rock Gem doesn't really fake/bluff Choice Band at all.
Either way Terrakion is arguably one of the best Pokemon in OU considering you can do so many things with it.
Rock Gem doesn't really fake/bluff Choice Band at all.
Either way Terrakion is arguably one of the best Pokemon in OU considering you can do so many things with it.
It works early game when you spam Close Combat to test the waters.
You have to remember that once you reveal the Life Orb, people are just going to assume you're a double dancer, only to be rocked hard by SubSD Terrakion later on. Leftovers is pretty much a dead giveaway that you're running Substitute, and therefore, nobody will be stupid enough to try Thunder Waving.
Terrakion loves Wish support, or better yet, Healing Wish support. Blissey is a great partner for both of these roles, as special sweepers usually switch, and Blissey can pull of a Healing Wish, to make terrakion one hell of a LO abuser with substitute. Wish also works, but you have to plan it right.
Once you've used one Close Combat (which chances are it is resisted the first time you fire one off), it can be fairly obvious as to whether it is holding Choice Band or not. Also it is no way to assume it could be Choice Scarf either because it used perhaps one of the most common attacks in the game.
It can send Gliscor packing, otherwise I'd be more inclinced to settle with Life Orb which shouldn't reveal Substitute/Rock Polish until you feel it is the right time to set up. Swords Dance helps you tear a whole in a team full of Slowbro/Gliscor/Mew teams of this world.
Bluffing a choice item is a bad strategy in general since most players should know that assuming the opponent is scarfed is a bad way to lose a pokemon or lose the game. I use expert belt hydriegon because I am sick of losing him to priority after lo damage and sandstorm, and the number of scizor/heatran that switch in on dark pulse and then die to the earthquake/fire blast is pretty ridiculous. Wait, I'm wrong. I run 76 attacks Evs and sometimes heatran isn't e en ohko'd by the earthquake when he's at full hp, because I'm running an expert belt and not a life orb.
It's kind of like chesto rest rotom-w, but not as bad. You could just run a better item, since good opponents shouldn't assume you're scarfed or specs just because they don't see leftovers/life orb.
So I'm looking for some reliable terrakion counters and I need pokemom who don't lose to banded terrakion after rocks. The only legitimate counter I know is golurk.
It's kind of like chesto rest rotom-w, but not as bad. You could just run a better item, since good opponents shouldn't assume you're scarfed or specs just because they don't see leftovers/life orb.
So I'm looking for some reliable terrakion counters and I need pokemom who don't lose to banded terrakion after rocks. The only legitimate counter I know is golurk.
While not the greatest Pokemon, Cresselia does a pretty good job of taking on Terrakion, specifically the Defensive and Dual Screen sets. Banded X-Scissor is only doing about 37%-44% on the 252/252 Cressy set; the EV spreads can vary depending on which set you end up running.
In the same vein, Nidoqueen takes only 35% max from Banded Close Combat via the defensive Toxic Spikes set. It can use those free turns to set up Toxic Spikes or go for the KO with Earth Power. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the blessing of recover that Cresselia gets. However, it resists Stealth Rock damage, which is always kind of a plus!
/end Birkal discussing obscuremons
I already use cresselia for that purpose my sun team, but I want to take a break from those for a while (and cress doesn't work outside of those). Nidoqueen is alright, but thanks to NWO mentioning that x-scissor is bad on terrakion, I stopped seeing it on banded variants and I'm seeing earthquake instead.
Well; hippowdon does have other abilities, so you can use his max def form for that. This also accomplishes the dual purpose of making your opponent think you're a moron, which is always fun. Besides, as a sun team, don't you have the ability to use tangrowth or slowbro?
Also:No x-scissor? Celebi hearts this.
Also:No x-scissor? Celebi hearts this.
Not really, because a CB Stone Edge will still nab you a 2HKO. It's only a 64% chance, but it's still possible. Did I mention that Choice Band Terrakion has absolutely ridiculous power? Even if it only had Close Combat and Stone Edge, only a handful of obscure threats, such as Claydol and Nidoqueen, can escape the 2HKO. Honestly, unless I'm 100% sure Celebi is coming in, or Celebi is the last Poke standing, I click Stone Edge, not X-Scissor.
Umm, I was talking about Choice Band Terrakion. If you want to discuss Swords Dance Terrakion though.
+2 252 Atk Jolly LO Terrakion Stone Edge vs 252/ 252 Bold Celebi: 75.2% - 88.6%
An OHKO with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Not to mention that physically Defensive Celebi is rarely ever used. The two most common Celebi sets are Nasty Plot and Tinkerbell, in which case.
+2 252 Atk Jolly LO Terrakion Stone Edge vs 232/ 0 Modest Celebi: 106% - 124.8%
Which is a clean OHKO. Celebi's niche in the metagame is primarily Offensive, and it should therefore be used for Offense. Therefore, Celebi cannot check Terrakion regardless of X-Scissor, unless you want to sacrifice Celebi's Offensive potential for only a chance to defeat Terrakion.
Alright, I misread your post, so I will concede this point. However, I don't think anyone in their right mind would ever switch in a Terrakion against a Celebi. It would only be the other way around, unless Terrakion is the last Pokemon remaining or something. There are many better ways to deal with Celebi. Furthermore, how can you tell that a Terrakion is not carrying X-Scissor? Considering how it mostly just spams Close Combat all game long, are you going to risk staying in to find out? If Terrakion reveals a Life Orb, then chances are, it doesn't have X-Scissor, in which case, you can safely keep Celebi in. But like I said, Terrakion will rarely ever be the one coming in.