The 1v1 Metagame

If you want this to be a viable tournament format, I'd suggest making rounds best 2 out of 3 or 3 of 5 something, because single elimination just seems to minimize skill differentiation and maximize the presence of hax and counter-teaming.
 
mtr said:
If you want this to be a viable tournament format, I'd suggest making rounds best 2 out of 3 or 3 of 5 something, because single elimination just seems to minimize skill differentiation and maximize the presence of hax and counter-teaming.
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I agree, best 2 of 3 would increase the strategy bit, since a battle could be over by the luck of the pokemon picked

with regards to sleep, maybe there could be a only-sleep-once-per-battle clause? Cause running lum removes item choice. And if you're talking about killing the sleeper that fast, then these 1v1 battles would be super short
 
mtr said:
If you want this to be a viable tournament format, I'd suggest making rounds best 2 out of 3 or 3 of 5 something, because single elimination just seems to minimize skill differentiation and maximize the presence of hax and counter-teaming.
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The key issue with expanding the matches is that unless each competitor has a different Pokemon for each battle in a round, you lose out on the surprise factor involved in battle 1. Surprise factor and gimmicks are that much more important with only one Pokemon per side and no switching.

Something like this came up in IRC in #1v1:

(10:35:10 PM) Jibaku: you know what would be interesting?
(10:35:16 PM) Jibaku: repeat 1v1 matches with the same Pokemon
(10:36:23 PM) bearsfan092: Well, considering you can win 1v1 matches on gimmick factor, I think repeat matches would be a huge factor
 
Kingdra (M) @ Haban Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 120 HP/136 Atk/232 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Yawn

I threw a random EV spread together but this should create a stir. Haban Berry protects you against the dragons so you can just Outrage them. Kingdra is incredibly difficult to KO with some HP investment if you arent using Dragon moves, so you should be able to Yawn on shit that can't kill you fast enough. Ehh the whole metagame seems like a hit or miss tho
 
Honchkrow says hi to Breloom. I can't think of a single way that Breloom could win if Honchkrow has a Focus Sash and Aerial Ace. I think that's a perfect victory.

Honchkrow@Focus Sash
Insomnia
Naive 252 att/252 speed
Aerial Ace/Brave Bird
Superpower
Sucker Punch
Protect/Heat Wave

I think it is possible to lose if you use Brave Bird and the recoil kills your sash, so Aerial Ace is a safer choice. Protect is to scout other pokemon that might have gimmick sets. Or to check for Trick.
 
Luminary said:
Set Name: British Crobat
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What exactly makes this Crobat british? It isn't at all like British Gliscor.

Anyway, I've played a few 1v1 matches in some unofficial #stark cups and it was a pretty interesting metagame. There wasn't anything like a Hax Items Clause though and I don't think some of those clauses would be needed. No one would really even want to run items like Focus Band or Bright Powder when they can use Focus Sash or Lum Berry. Resist berries can probably be used successfully as well.

Focus Sash Clause is an interesting thing to think about though, it will change any possible OHKO to a 2HKO and since I don't have loads of experience in a 1v1 metagame I don't know if it is really needed or not. There wasn't a Sash Clause in the cups and the set I ran was just an Infernape similar to the Lead set,

Infernape@ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Fake Out
-Fire Punch
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge

It worked decently but doesn't work very well against fast Ghosts or bulky Waters, if I played more I'd know how good this set really was.

The Scarf Jirachi set mentioned above works great and I think reachzero had used it and I've seen interesting sets like Toxic Stall Quagsire(which was also oddly walled by the Jirachi set). Priority would also be big, Dragonite sounds better here than Salamence because of Extremespeed and an ability that prevents it from being flinched. In the vgc the duck crew popularized Hitmontop with a set taking advantage of Technician and priority, I think it could work out in a 1v1 meta. Sleep is interesting because the slower mons like Breloom will most likely take a hit before putting the opponent to sleep and the faster mons with access to sleep moves like Gengar and Roserade can miss making relying on sleep moves somewhat unreliable.
 
RaikouLover said:
Kingdra (M) @ Haban Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 120 HP/136 Atk/232 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Yawn

I threw a random EV spread together but this should create a stir. Haban Berry protects you against the dragons so you can just Outrage them. Kingdra is incredibly difficult to KO with some HP investment if you arent using Dragon moves, so you should be able to Yawn on shit that can't kill you fast enough. Ehh the whole metagame seems like a hit or miss tho
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Why Swift Swim though? You are never going to get rain, unless you are up against a Kyogre. Might as well make it Sniper for the hell of it.

I agree that with so much luck involved, the metagame only has competetive merit if it is in a "best of ___" format. The matches should be relatively short, so this isn't that much of an inconvenience. It would be interesting to see the effects of being able to change Pokemon between matches vs. doing rematches with the same two Pokemon.
 
On the Subject of Focus Sash; I actually think it should be unbanned. It enables the use of otherwise unwieldy strategies. It keeps the simple "I hit hard and outspeed you" strategy at bay. It isn't really broken enough to be banned.

TheFourthChaser said:
What exactly makes this Crobat british? It isn't at all like British Gliscor.
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I'm under the impression that "British" Gliscor is Stallbreaker Gliscor. It's a bit confusing to me, since Smogon's analysis page isn't hip to the lingo. Obviously, neither am I. But this Crobat is quite similar to Stallbreaker Gliscor, featuring a fast Taunt, bulky defenses, Roost, and one attack move. I've simply exchanged Toxic for Confuse Ray, considering the circumstances. I chose the name as less because it fit perfectly, and more because I needed a name.
 
I hven't read anything other than the OP

Some things to think about
Unbanning Deoxys-S - One of the main thing that got Deoxy-S banned was it's ability to set up Entry Hazards. With Entry Hazards being useless, Deoxys-S should be considered to be allowed. Although it does still have a good movepool and stats.
Unbanning Wobbuffet or Wynaut - Wobbuffet loses one of his main functions without being able to help other pokemon set up. With his lackluster speed, Wobbuffet can easily be hit with status or Taunt. Despite this, Encore + CounterCoat + Massive HP still looks pretty threatening.
Unbanning Garchomp - Without the ability to have sand up automatically, Garchomp does lose some of it's usefulness with Sand Veil. However, his attack and speed are still something to fear.
Unbanning Focus Sash - While it does seem very powerful, there has an appeal for Focus Sash to be unbanned. With things like Sandstorm, Hail, and Fake Out being able to easily break it and counter the pokemon. Still it does seem like it may too powerful in concept.
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Honestly, I think it is completely unfair to use a ban list designed for a 6v6 metagame for a completely different one. I honestly don't see how you can play with the assumption that all of the Ubers in 6v6 are broken in 1v1, like Mew.

I would probably use something like Yawn / Protect / Dragon Dance / Outrage Kingdra for this. Simple sleep, get fast, fuck everything over with a move no one's immune to.

Focus Sash just seems like it would cancel out, i'd rather not have it.
 
1. Wow, this seems like such a great idea...
2. Kingdra seems to be really popular in this sort of battling environment.
3. I think Focus Sash should be banned, otherwise, it'll become the new Stealth Rock for 1vs.1 (in comparison to 6 vs. 6 because everyone uses it)
4. Agreeing with MTR's idea. Best 2 out of 3 would be a good idea, because that flinch Jirachi set everyone's posting seems like a drag, xP
 
I like the Idea of the best of 2 out 3. Similar to the waterfall colosseum in PBR. Using 3 different pokemon species.
 
Given that Focus Sash is banned:

Slaking @ Choice Band
EVs 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Jolly nature
Giga Impact
Earthquake
Fire Punch
Shadow Claw / Sleep Talk

Giga Impact OHKOs almost everything, and the other 3 attacks are for Pokemon that resist it. Most Pokes that can survive an attack won't be able to 2HKO Slaking, meaning you can finish them off later. Traunt + Giga's Impact loss of a turn will often mean nil. Shadow Claw > Sucker Punch for reliability, and it's very hard to OHKO Slaking so priority isn't very useful. Sleep Talk is an option over Shadow Claw for sleepers. Fire Punch still OHKOs Gengar and Mismagius, but more bulky Ghosts become problematic. Jolly to outrun +nature Lucario and other base 90s, seeing as you'll be OHKOing most things even without an Adamant nature. EVs are obvious, with spare in his crappy base 65 SpD. Protect is a bitch, but with only 4 moves available, many people will find themselves hard-pressed to fit it in their moveslots.
 
Just posting to say that #stark has been holding 1v1 cups, so if you guys want to try out / test stuff, just join #stark and ask for a 1v1 cup to be held. We won't necessarily abide by the ruleset listed in this topic, but we'll be looking for an efficient one regardless.

Look forward to seeing you guys around.
 
Banning sash means banning Level 1 Endeavor. They lose to priority, passive damage (like hail), and ghosts anyway. Cleffa maybe, if it had priority of some sort (which sadly it doesn't), but even then its Endeavor cannot touch ghosts.
 
Scarf kills this metagame. I had previous experience with this type of game, and Jirachi, Togekiss, and just recently Zapdos, rape this game :P

Jirachi @Scarf
Jolly
[Serene Grace]
EV's: 252 atk, 252 speed, 6 def
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-Iron Head
-Trick

Togekiss @Scarf
Modest
[Serene Grace]
EV's: 252 spatk, 148 speed, leftovers in HP
-Air Slash
-Aura Sphere
-HP Ice/Roost
-Trick


Jirachi and Kiss pose a similar strategy: Flinch things to death. If the opponent is hit Supereffective by any of your other moves, use them. If the opponent is a defensive pkmn (blissey, dusknoir, swamp, etc...) just trick your scarf unto it. The game is yours from there.

Now, I've seen another pokemon that can kill this both, but loses to a rindo-swampert set mentioned before :P

Zapdos @Scarf
Timid/Modest
[Pressure]
EV's: 252 spatk, 252 spe, 6 def
-Heat Wave
-T-bolt
-HP Grass
-Signal Beam

It outruns the past 2 pokemons (anything in the metagame, for the matter lol, except some scarf infernape running more than standard scarf) and pretty much kills everything with excellent spatk (decent if using timid :P).

The metagame isn't centralized because you can try a lot of new ideas.

Try Spiritomb, that can abuse pressure to beat the shit out of choiced pkmn (maybe with Spite xD)

I love the metagame because it's very original and fast paced.
 
Don't forget that to counter trick pokes, mail might become a more common item, as it completely screws the trick strategy. It causes Trick to fail, and the choiced pokemon is stuck on Trick.
 
We like to call the 1v1 metagame in Brazil as "King of the Hill", though we used to play a tournament with this rule with each player knowing which pokemon he will battle, so you can build a specific set each round. In that situation, dudes like Slaking and Wobby are pretty much useless, obviously, but if you're gonna play without knowing your foe, then it sounds... weird. And harder.
Anyway, Focus Sash should be legal imo: I mean, sometimes it can really save your butt at unbalanced matches.
 
I don't really have any sets but many NU pokemon would up immediately. Rampardos, Buneary, Lapras, Hitmonchan, and then others would immediately drop. Such as Magnezone, Dugtrio, Blissey (Because everyone would try adding fighting moves just for it). Perish stall wouldn't work because it would kill both, forcing a tie. I support this idea a lot, especially on shoddy. Sounds fun! :)
 
Curse (from ghost types) seems like it would be really fun in this metagame. Spiritomb has the bulk to pull it off, Gengar/Mismagius has Hypnosis. It would basically be like a 4-turn Perish Song that costs you 50% of your health instead of killing you after three turns. A set of Curse/Protect/Substitute or Rest/Hypnosis on any ghost would be lol.
 
I dislike the banning of Focus Sash for this metagame. I think Focus Sash is what makes a lot of the more frail Pokemon viable for this sort of a thing, especially if they have the ability to break the opponent's Focus Sash with Fake Out or something. Having played in this metagame before with a bunch of friends of mine, I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Focus Sash is in no way broken.

Anyway, I had the most success with the following set in a Focus Sash metagame:

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Infernape @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 Spe
Nature: Naive
~ Fake Out
~ Fire Blast
~ Close Combat
~ Stone Edge

Fake Out is to break opposing frail Pokemon's Focus Sashes and to get a free hit. Fire Blast and Close Combat give obscenely good coverage, and the four Pokemon that immediately come to mind that resist both are Latias, Salamence, Dragonite, and Gyarados. Stone Edge hits all of them very hard, even going so far as to 2HKOing Gyara and Mence after Intimidate. If running this in a Garchomp metagame, you should run the following EV spread: 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 208 Spe

I had enormous success and won many local 1v1 tournaments with this, but it really hinges on the availability of Focus Sash. Infernape cannot avoid an OHKO from things like Salamence, Garchomp, or Gyarados without it.
 
Uber Clause: Players cannot use Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys, Deoxys-A, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S Dialga, Garchomp, Giratina, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Manaphy, Mew, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Shaymin-S, Wobbuffet, Wynaut.
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I think it may be a good idea to get people to test out if Mew, Manaphy, and Deoxys-D are banworthy in a 1v1 environment (along with the ones that are currently being thought about like Deoxys-S, Garchomp, Wobbuffet, and Wynaut).

Mew loses the ability to Baton Pass stuff to other pokemon, and while it does have an enormous movepool, it still won't hit very hard unless it uses Nasty Plot or Swords Dance, which may be risky if Focus Sash is banned since it won't be guaranteed to get those boosts off.

Manaphy is just a generic Water-type in a 1v1 environment, since it's going to be very hard to stockpile a ton of boosts like it could in OU. However, the Wacan Tail Glow set might be a problem since it takes care of Manaphy's only real weakness. His Speed is still an issue since he can't boost it and Speed ties with a lot of pokemon as a result, not to mention how popular Choice Scarf sounds.

Deoxys-D is no where near banworthy in 1v1. He has the same defenses as Uxie, but with less Speed and attacking stats. The only thing Deoxys-D is really good at is supporting, and he can't really do that in 1v1.
 
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