I know, and I agree that sucks. Again, blame GF for the 0-31 stupid nonsense.
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The Action Replay debate.
- Thread starter Crash Hard
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I know, and I agree that sucks. Again, blame GF for the 0-31 stupid nonsense.
Maybe you didn't notice but this whole thread is about people's opinions, there really is nothing set in stone about AR morals. I was responding to your opinions.
If I thought this thread was about people posting their opinions with the knowledge that they were opinions I wouldn't have posted in this thread at all, but it seems to me more like people(StarWizard is a good example) are trying to present their opinions as fact.
Either way at least... in my opinion, telling people what they should or shouldn't do under the guise of it being 'your opinion' is kind of crossing a line.
Either way at least... in my opinion, telling people what they should or shouldn't do under the guise of it being 'your opinion' is kind of crossing a line.
Is it not logical that shoddy or competitor are the perfect avenue for people who don't have the time to train up a team and enjoy only the battling aspect of the game? Sure, shoddy still has bugs but it's completely playable. When competitor comes out I'll play it just to test new things. I'm sorry you took it so personally but that's all I was suggesting. I take it personally when people throw all 31 IV shiny pokes at my team without telling me they were hacked.
christ yes i wish my priest could heal but apparently i need to spec shadow to help the raid???//// blue pliz???
So do I. This doesn't mean I get annoyed when I play other people who shark, because battles don't care about how Pokes were raised as long as the end result is the same.
If anything playing with haxed teams confirms the victory, because you won on a level playing field and not simply because your manz were better.
I didn't take anything personally, I disagreed with your argument in this debate thread an thus posted a counterargument. If you're taking things personally I'd say you're taking things a little too seriously.
And while I personally think 6x 31 IV Pokemon(and hacked shinies as a whole) is more than a little overkill I have to wonder if you aren't taking the game in general a little too seriously if you're "taking that personally" given that it's still within the realm of possibility, even if it's improbable.
Additionally it certainly is 'the perfect avenue' for people with less time to battle, but that doesn't make them any more or less capable of battling over wifi if they want to do that as well.
Irrelevant WoW EDIT:
Raikou said:
Suddenly, everything makes sense!
Raikou said:
Yeah... no. As much as I hate defending Blizzard in any avenue the point of nerfing classes or abilities is to weaken them to a point that they are 'balanced' when they are not balanced already. Complaining they nerf too much, and that that is the reason that the game is imbalanced, doesn't make much sense to me. It makes less sense to me when you're a Warlock. Either way, I'm surprised it's been as balanced as it has for as long as it has been - there's been problems for a long time but compared to most MMOs it's held together fairly well the last few years.
And to address what you were quoting... I think Blizzard is doing a fairly good job of moving in the right direction as far as time investment mattering less - the fact that by losing arena games for an hour a week a group of casuals will eventually end up in full Arena epics is a pretty good indication of that. While time investment is definitely still the biggest factor, at least it's lessened by a pretty large degree. I was pretty cutting edge gear during Naxxramas(http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Doomhammer&n=Synre) and because of that a casual player in most classes, at least as far as gear goes, could not have realistically stood up to me at that point - the stat gap because of my gear was simply too great. With PvP gear being a lot more competitive now thanks to Arenas at least the gap I am noticing between some of my old guildmates and the more casual pvp geared players is a lot smaller than it was a year ago.
You're forgetting the roots of the game. Red and Blue versions didn't have breeding. To me, Nintendo's original intent with IVs seems obvious and that was to present diversity. We didn't have the EV system then and IVs were also 0-15. Granted, that has no place in this argument since for all I know they saw that as a flaw and adjusted that when they added breeding for GSC and then a steeper IV system and EV system for Advance. Either way, you can't argue that breeding was definitely an afterthought in this series.
Fire Electric Cat-Gonk said:
I was going to say that as well but didn't want to start receiving PMs from people asking me to shark some pokemon up for them lol. I'm all for the fair playing field for sure and would be more than willing to do this if I really had to battle someone.
Hey, at least I was destruction spec, which isn't quite as dominating as the other two. Except for the 5k soulfires, those were quite dominating.
And no I do not cry myself to sleep at night over cheaters, if anything beating them makes me feel good. Taking it personally is a figure of speech; I do roll my eyes. I just like honesty in a game where cheating is so easy, and for the most part I dislike cheating because I get traded hacks for stuff I spent time on.
And no I do not cry myself to sleep at night over cheaters, if anything beating them makes me feel good. Taking it personally is a figure of speech; I do roll my eyes. I just like honesty in a game where cheating is so easy, and for the most part I dislike cheating because I get traded hacks for stuff I spent time on.
I'm not against people using AR to get the stats. I merely want that to be considered what it is: cheating. Justified or non-justified. My opinion or not. Etc. I guess I tried a bit too hard in making this statemant and did present my opinion as fact, and for that I am sorry, as I could've argued in a different way.
I agree 100% that telling people what they should or shouldn't is crossing the line, so I also resent having said that people without the time should just play with the online simulators. That isn't for me to decide/suggest.
However, I'll keep on showing my opinion (or whatever) that the game as it was presented to us is about what it is, and a part of what it is is getting the right IVed pokémon (for fun, profit, battling, whatever). Stupid as it was as an idea by GF, it is one of the main mechanics of the game, and ''purists'' may think that it is the only ''correct'' way to play the game. That is wrong, though, because there is no right or wrong way to play the game. People that breed and people that hack the IVs with AR won't necessarily have/not have fun. Whatever floats one's boat, I guess.
What I feel is that there is a need to divide the players in two groups, because while the AR group won't mind playing against legit pokémon, the breeders will almost always be a little bit behind (legit sixtuple, if that's even a word, flawless pokémon hardly exist, let alone 6 of them in one's team). My hypothetical 28/30/31/30/31/29 pokémon will always be a little bit behind a hacked 31/31/31/31/31/31 of the same species, nevermind if I win or lose the battle in the end. I think people have the right to choose to play only against people that play the game in the same way they do, because that enforces the feeling of true battling and makes you feel more comfortable about losing/winning even though playing against another breeder doesn't mean the pokémon are 100% the same.
I think that's the strongest reason against people using AR-enchanced pokémon, from people who don't use it. Nobody wants to go and say ''no, I lost half of my free time breeding, you should also be as stupid. No AR pokémon. pwned'' just for the heck of it. I do, though, want to play against people using good, but flawed pokémon, like mine are. That's the way I enjoy playing the game.
Or something like that. This post was longer than I intended it to be.
I wouldn't base much about the current metagame on Red and Blue, otherwise you'd have to argue against a ton of things they've added since then. Were balancing psychics, the physical/special split and adding more than 300 Pokemon "afterthoughts" too?
That said, I don't really care too much one way or the other. If you want to participate in most real life tournies a "no hacked shit" rule is probably going to be in place anyway, and that's really all that matters.
Cloning is ''just as bad'' as AR-creating, even GTS cloning. The only difference is the novelty of the cloned pokémon being legit. This doesn't make any copies be any more legit than a pokémon with hacked IVs, technically.
I have the AR for cloning now, and occasionally I'll use Pokésav's AR output to make a team (clearly labeled with OT 'hacked') just to test it on WiFi and see how it goes. (I hate Shoddy, I love battle animations. Plus lack of things like unburden, one of my favorite abilities, sucks.)
I would argue that using in-game cloning methods are "legitimate" as they are a way, without using outside measures, to duplicate a pokemon. Nothing is required except the game (and in the case of GTS cloning, a wireless connection, but multiplayer also requires that...). Whereas actually creating a pokemon with the AR requires an outside tool.
That said, I hardly care anymore. The people good enough to know about HOW to breed max stats likely will have stuff close enough to max for government work. Hidden Power strength and typing is the only thing I'd be up in arms about, as I've always felt that HP destabilized the game if allowed to be perfect. But that's me.
That said, I hardly care anymore. The people good enough to know about HOW to breed max stats likely will have stuff close enough to max for government work. Hidden Power strength and typing is the only thing I'd be up in arms about, as I've always felt that HP destabilized the game if allowed to be perfect. But that's me.
I thought most people wanted just battle? Why should something insignificant (In my eyes) like the difference between battling in person and battling on a simulator make a difference to people who use AR so they could just battle? Might as well just save yourself the money of buying an AR and go on a simulator, the only difference is the music and I bet Competitor will have some when it comes out.
I don't have an AR personally (as I have said) but I still won't mind playing people who used it, all I have to do is trade with other people and it's a cinch!
I dislike using AR for any reason. One of the seniors at my school had one and was activating the event pokes for everyone. I told him I'd wait till they came out on WiFi. Stupid me as he's graduated and there's no event pokes on frickin Wifi, but w/e.
If you want to clone, use the GTS like everyone else. It's slower, and it's risky, but you're in the same boat as everyone else.
As far as people battling against me with hacked pokes, it doesn't matter. Skill will always win over hacks. When I breed, I'm happy if it has 31 in the two important stats (say Blissy, HP and DEF, ok Sp. Def; Garchomp, 31 Att and Speed) and the right nature. Hacked pokes don't give any REALLY noticable bonuses, so whats the big deal? I don't waste A LOT of time on breeding, so I don't care. If I beat you without hacking, it's a kick in the balls for you, isn't it? And if you beat me, it's a shallower victory for you (I'd assume). I don't complain if I get beaten by legit hacks, it just means that I have to make my team better for the future.
Anyways, that's just me. ;P
PS: Hidden Power is gayyyyyyy!!! I just try not to use it and come up with different movesets, though I'll trade if it's needed (Bleck).
If you want to clone, use the GTS like everyone else. It's slower, and it's risky, but you're in the same boat as everyone else.
As far as people battling against me with hacked pokes, it doesn't matter. Skill will always win over hacks. When I breed, I'm happy if it has 31 in the two important stats (say Blissy, HP and DEF, ok Sp. Def; Garchomp, 31 Att and Speed) and the right nature. Hacked pokes don't give any REALLY noticable bonuses, so whats the big deal? I don't waste A LOT of time on breeding, so I don't care. If I beat you without hacking, it's a kick in the balls for you, isn't it? And if you beat me, it's a shallower victory for you (I'd assume). I don't complain if I get beaten by legit hacks, it just means that I have to make my team better for the future.
Anyways, that's just me. ;P
PS: Hidden Power is gayyyyyyy!!! I just try not to use it and come up with different movesets, though I'll trade if it's needed (Bleck).
Flawless IV's across the board and 255 EV's in every stat, thats the deal?
Because this thread is about people who do that, right? It's not about oh
The First Post in the Thread said:
this, right?
That's not the deal.
This is quite the thread!
I'll be honest: I have nothing against those who use AR (Confession: I use to "shark" my G/S/C pokemon with something called a "Brain Boy"). Of course, if I see illegal movesets or something then we got a problem. If they got good IV pokemon made in little time, oh well I don't care.
It all comes down to that "feeling" of "wow, I just raised six pokemon by myself". I got that feeling from raising a Pokemon Yellow Team before. Granted it did take time, but I only trained them when I had nothing to do (i.e if really bad television was on or I couldn't sleep or something).
I would only use an AR for getting extras of items (Rare Candies, TMs) which is legit b/c before I invested in an AR, I just borrowed my sister's Sapphire and speed run it through to get extra items then trade it to my Emerald...back in the day, so I know it could be done.
I'll be honest: I have nothing against those who use AR (Confession: I use to "shark" my G/S/C pokemon with something called a "Brain Boy"). Of course, if I see illegal movesets or something then we got a problem. If they got good IV pokemon made in little time, oh well I don't care.
It all comes down to that "feeling" of "wow, I just raised six pokemon by myself". I got that feeling from raising a Pokemon Yellow Team before. Granted it did take time, but I only trained them when I had nothing to do (i.e if really bad television was on or I couldn't sleep or something).
I would only use an AR for getting extras of items (Rare Candies, TMs) which is legit b/c before I invested in an AR, I just borrowed my sister's Sapphire and speed run it through to get extra items then trade it to my Emerald...back in the day, so I know it could be done.
Here's the real kick in the pants...
Cloning using the GTS isn't any more "legit" than making pokemon with the AR. Just because you don't need any external device doesn't change the heart of what you are doing. The argument that MOST of the anti-AR crowd uses is that players are cheating by getting pokemon they neither worked for or traded away something else they worked for. They are getting something for nothing and that's cheating...
But cloning in any fashion, whether its "legit" cloning through the GTS or not violates that principle. It's still a FREE copy. Sure it takes a little effort to turn off your DS at the right moment but it also takes a little effort to build your pokemon in a program, get it on the DS and add it to your game. In fact, it probably takes MORE effort to make pokes with the AR than it does to clone over GTS.
No matter how you slice it, its still something for nothing. If you advocate cloning (essentially making counterfit poke-money) through the GTS then you might as well go all the way and admit that getting a good pokemon for little-to-no effort isn't really what bothers you. You just have an imaginary line drawn between two equally illegitimate methods of obtaining pokemon. Your imaginary line is silly and intellectually dishonest.
As long as the hacked pokemon fall within the normal boundaries of the game then it really shouldn't be an issue. Sure, get pissed if you run into a Wonder Guard Spiritomb or a Lvl 5 Bronzor with Spacial Rend, but with cloning, breeding and effort, everyone has access to the regular pokemon for battles, no matter how they get it. Like I said before, lets just all be HONEST about our pokemon with each other and it shouldn't be an issue.
Cloning using the GTS isn't any more "legit" than making pokemon with the AR. Just because you don't need any external device doesn't change the heart of what you are doing. The argument that MOST of the anti-AR crowd uses is that players are cheating by getting pokemon they neither worked for or traded away something else they worked for. They are getting something for nothing and that's cheating...
But cloning in any fashion, whether its "legit" cloning through the GTS or not violates that principle. It's still a FREE copy. Sure it takes a little effort to turn off your DS at the right moment but it also takes a little effort to build your pokemon in a program, get it on the DS and add it to your game. In fact, it probably takes MORE effort to make pokes with the AR than it does to clone over GTS.
No matter how you slice it, its still something for nothing. If you advocate cloning (essentially making counterfit poke-money) through the GTS then you might as well go all the way and admit that getting a good pokemon for little-to-no effort isn't really what bothers you. You just have an imaginary line drawn between two equally illegitimate methods of obtaining pokemon. Your imaginary line is silly and intellectually dishonest.
As long as the hacked pokemon fall within the normal boundaries of the game then it really shouldn't be an issue. Sure, get pissed if you run into a Wonder Guard Spiritomb or a Lvl 5 Bronzor with Spacial Rend, but with cloning, breeding and effort, everyone has access to the regular pokemon for battles, no matter how they get it. Like I said before, lets just all be HONEST about our pokemon with each other and it shouldn't be an issue.
When you put it that way (AR using = cheating), then yeah, I suppose I am advocating it. Or at least advocating the tolerance of it. You made the point that ARing turns the game into a mod, but what I'm talking about is just pokemon with 510 EV's and all 31 IV's, and legitimately obtainable movesets and abilities. Nothing that's not normally allowed in the regular competitive realm. It's true that they haven't been obtained in the normal way, but they're still legitimate in every other way. As for the simulators...I see your point, though there's not really one real solid one (last time I tried Shoddy, I got DC'd in half my battles). And there's the fact that some people would just rather play the original game.
Though...I see your point. There are communities that accept battling with hacked pokemon, and there are those that consider it heresy. The main thing I want to argue, rather than the allowing of hacked pokemon on every battling website, is that it should be allowed here, since this website is geared around the most competitive aspects of battling.
I'm more bothered by the cloning is ok, but hacking is wrong argument than anything else.
I don't have a problem with AR'd critters that are within reason (ivs/evs, illegal movesets, etc). If breeding was a skill dependent system then perhaps I would think otherwise (I recognize the fact that a skillful breeder will know what to use in what situation to get the best chance at the desired results, but in the end it all comes down to luck).
An acceptable definition of cheating would be anything that violates the rules and boundaries placed by the game. Just because some code monkey didn't count on people sitting by their routers with their fingers on the off switch doesn't make GTS cloning ok. It's as clear a violation of the rules as using an illegitimate Pokemon.
I don't have a problem with AR'd critters that are within reason (ivs/evs, illegal movesets, etc). If breeding was a skill dependent system then perhaps I would think otherwise (I recognize the fact that a skillful breeder will know what to use in what situation to get the best chance at the desired results, but in the end it all comes down to luck).
An acceptable definition of cheating would be anything that violates the rules and boundaries placed by the game. Just because some code monkey didn't count on people sitting by their routers with their fingers on the off switch doesn't make GTS cloning ok. It's as clear a violation of the rules as using an illegitimate Pokemon.
See, I don't use that arguement. I argue that the game is intended to be played in a pure state. The AR is an outside influence on the game, therefore it is "cheating". Hense, I don't use the AR, but I can, will, and do battle people who do. I get more enjoyment out of it my way.
Then again, I don't really trade my clones (with the exception of a turdy Mew on the WiFi to fill my dex) so it's a bit of a moot point really.
Well see the thing is, what kind of pokemon are you getting? One you already kept breeding for and now just want to trade to others or one you just typed in a few codes for?
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