Blast, I've been found out. Abort mission!
Also I'm sure y'all are capable of being a little more respectful and pleasant to one another. Let's try not to let this become like every single other religion thread ever...
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Serious The Atheism/Agnosticism thread
- Thread starter Adamant Zoroark
- Start date
Blast, I've been found out. Abort mission!
Also I'm sure y'all are capable of being a little more respectful and pleasant to one another. Let's try not to let this become like every single other religion thread ever...
I really hope you're trolling, because this post was really well done.
Cobraroll thanks for posting some of your life, and why you don't believe. (I'll tell you more about my experience of what lead me to the decision that there where no god(s) (Then I might go in on what lead me to Christ).
Both of these post are excellent. :)
Chou I'll mainly be replying to your post (to the best of knowledge. With this in mind remember I am just a man, and I do not have all the answers.)
I think I'll start here. In Christianity and Catholicism there is one higher power. His name is Jesus or Lord God. I believe Lord God created the Heaven's (in Spanish this is sort of translation of Skies) and the Earth. He also made the Angels and Humans. God made humans and angels on the same level. We aren't higher than one another. One thing my mother does is she prays to the Saints. (It's a catholic thing.) I guess a saint could be like a spirit you pray to. They make candles with the saints on it. My question is why would you pray to a saint or spirit. As a christian I believe Jesus died for me. I don't have to do any rituals (like killing doves, or slaughtering lambs, and covering an altar in blood) to talk to my Father. I can go directly to my Father and ask Him for anything. "Modern" Christianity seems to be all about friendship and love. Jesus wants to be a friend of yours. He wants you to be intimate with him.
Take a listen to Jake Luhrs testimony. (It's only going to cost you 11 minutes.)
--
As Americans we eat Cheese Burgers, and Cheese steaks.
As a Christian you only have to partake of "two rituals". You chose to partake in communion, and you chose to get baptized baptized (If anybody has questions feel free to ask. I will do my best to answer them.)
Jesus Bless all of you :)
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1. I type about 135 wpm when I want to, for me a three paragraph rant probably took as much time as it took you to write this
2. People capitalize stuff in their ONE TRUE ONLY GOOD AND HOLY religion to give it an extra sense of grandeur/authority; since I reject that authority as incredibly false, I am always going to call it stuff like that "Him shit".
is anyone else in the same bag where they, either through apathy or the belief that they don't have the authority to make the call as to whether there's a god or not, default to agnosticism?
i mean, generally, you don't give much attention to something that has no noticeable effect. i also don't really think i have the authority to declare, even if it is only to myself, the existence or non-existence of a god; both are exceptionally bold, concrete statements, overwhelmingly justified with abstract reasoning.
i mean, generally, you don't give much attention to something that has no noticeable effect. i also don't really think i have the authority to declare, even if it is only to myself, the existence or non-existence of a god; both are exceptionally bold, concrete statements, overwhelmingly justified with abstract reasoning.
I really give so many shits. My "massive rant", counting the part directed at WaterBomb, probably took me about 3 minutes to write. Word dumps are the way to go baby <3
Do you really have to wait for authorities to make every single one of your decisions? Out of all the choices you can make in a day, this is probably the least significant, yet you think you are incapable of coming to your own conclusions? Who does get the authority to make decisions and why should we trust those decisions?
Well billymills I wouldn't take poppy's thoughts that far. I feel the same way as him in that I'm agnostic because I do not explicitly believe in any texts, and do not have any way of making a declarative statement. Since I'm relatively apathetic towards religion and don't believe in anything particular (though my entire family is Hindu), I feel unable and unqualified to make a decision that would result in disqualifying the beliefs of billions of people. So I'm just pretty wishy washy about it lmao.
I truly believe in God and qualify myself as a strict Baptist. I believe that He is out there an always watching, judging, and pushing us in the correct and moral direction to test us as people. Those who stray from His will (atheist, pedophiles, murderers, rapists, etc), are proven that their faith is not strong enough and thus are not chosen to be admitted into heaven. In these ways, I try to steer people in the right direction to be admitted into heaven. I feel that by not promoting my beliefs to as many people as possible, I am not doing my duty as a Christian because it feels like purposely pushing those around me towards hell. Another way to put it: I truly in my heart of hearts believe in my religion. Thus, why would I not push people towards it? I know that God is real and that you will be punished for sinning. I just want everyone to go to heaven. Some say that this can become a little extremist. I was called out for picketing an abortion clinic a few months ago, but what they fail to understand is that by idly sitting by I am allowing the sinners to go to hell.
Just my point of view. Atheism is a little silly.
Just my point of view. Atheism is a little silly.
No one here is making a call to anything if that's what you mean, but elsewhere I completely agree with you. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs, but just because your beliefs are old or "better" doesn't mean you're able to determine whether or not there really is a God.
Now back to religion, what I don't get about your claim is that God will punish all those who do not believe in him, will someone go to hell because they've never heard of Christianity and therefor unable to practice it, while rich, money hogging bastards go to heaven because they were loyal to the chruch? And what about other religions? Everyone else claims they're right and everyone else is wrong, so who's God is real?
There are just so many loose ends and so many unsolved questions that I feel it's pointless to waste your time with religion.
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I'm not sure how I can interpret this argument as anything short of complete arrogance. You are making a simple decision to answer an inconsequential question. You are not proving that billions of people wrong. How many people of those billions do you think would care in the slightest about how you answer that question. I have no problem with people being wishy washy; many others have mentioned it before me: there are so many more important issues people deal with daily. I do, however, have a problem with people thinking they are incapable of making their own decisions. I wouldn't have brought this up if poppy hadn't demonstrated the same abhorrent logic in another thread as well. How people treat religion, an insignificant issue, leaks into how the deal with other moral issues, which can be very significant.
Honestly the word abortion should be blocked on this forum. This is where the thread dies.
What if I don't want to go to heaven?
Also believing something is not the same thing as knowing it.
Yeah sorry about that, like i said I just had to get that out of my system.
I consider myself an Atheist, but by the most liberal definition, that in I find the "evidence" for a God not compelling. Just to make this clear, I do not asset that no God exists, that would be anti-theism. To be honestly I find theists attempts to assert that we 'believe' other things kind of odd, after all this is our thing, we decide what the definition is, not you. To me is is kind of like evangelicals trying to claim Morons or Jehovas aren't Christians.
I was raised a Catholic, but fell out of it as I got older, things just weren't adding up, and as I grew older, I found the reasons for my belief were logical fallacies, one by one they dropped and I had to question why I was doing this entire charade. I became an Atheist after watching some Atheist Experience on youtube, where they explained Atheism to me, and I found out I was an Atheist. At the same time I started looking at life more logically after learning many of the basic tenants of logical thought from them. Overall its a solid program, even if you are a Athiest its an exellent watch to discover exactly what real life Atheist organizations think and what they really are about, or just for a laugh, as some real nutters come on.
I was raised a Catholic, but fell out of it as I got older, things just weren't adding up, and as I grew older, I found the reasons for my belief were logical fallacies, one by one they dropped and I had to question why I was doing this entire charade. I became an Atheist after watching some Atheist Experience on youtube, where they explained Atheism to me, and I found out I was an Atheist. At the same time I started looking at life more logically after learning many of the basic tenants of logical thought from them. Overall its a solid program, even if you are a Athiest its an exellent watch to discover exactly what real life Atheist organizations think and what they really are about, or just for a laugh, as some real nutters come on.
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Are you referring to a decision about believing in a religion or not as inconsequential? I don't want to assume this is what you meant, so I'm asking if you are.
EDIT: Nevermind, after re-reading your post I noticed this:
Clearly, something billions of people have lived, fought, and died for over thousands of years is "insignificant" and "inconsequential".
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cliffs: atheists deserve to be lumped in with killers and rapists because they believe differently than you
Ed Balls
Guest
You're a massive cunt. Just my point of view.* See? Saying it's just your opinion doesn't excuse saying something so reprehensible. It also invalidates it because it automatically shields it from criticism: 'Well so what if you have this argument that debunks it completely! It's my opinion!'
*These views are irrepresentative of those of the Labour Party
Since this is the Atheism thread, how about an Atheism question. How do you guys feel about believing in something without empirical evidence? A lot of other Atheists I find demand solid physical evidence for God, as well as other beliefs, however, I feel this goes a bit too far IMO. For example, I am a Mathematical Platonist, I believe that numbers exist in some form within our universe, and in our pursuit of Mathematics we are accessing this information in the universe its self. I can not prove that these Platonic forms exist in any way, but from what I have learned in Mathematics, it seems apparent to me that numbers do not simply just exist in the physical concrete form like Nominalism suggests.
Anyway, what do you think about this? Do you Atheists have some unverifiable beliefs, and if so how to you reconcile them with Atheism.
For anyone wondering about Mathimatical Philosophy, here is a nice intro video, Numberphile also have a lot of nice mathematical videos.
Anyway, what do you think about this? Do you Atheists have some unverifiable beliefs, and if so how to you reconcile them with Atheism.
For anyone wondering about Mathimatical Philosophy, here is a nice intro video, Numberphile also have a lot of nice mathematical videos.
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what the fuck lol
your moral creed can have absolutely nothing to do with how you treat religion; not making a decision doesn't tie you down to anything morally.
also, the argument i'm proposing is the opposite of arrogance. the existence of a higher being is a conclusion that one cannot come to that easily. my stance of not thinking i have the authority is part and parcel of not giving a shit about it. i don't think i have any useful opinions about things i don't care about. that is not to say i am irreverent towards religion, anyone who can find salvation in faith alone has my thumbs up (although i do have a problem with literal interpretation of text).
i only asked that question because in my younger years i was put on the spot about religion after only just having recently rejected christianity that my household brought me up with. i tried to explain that i didn't want to have an opinion on it, and argued that it was not agnosticism because i reasoned that, in the same way that if you neither like or dislike something (and thusly don't care about it) then you have no association with it, and therefore no need to label yourself. of course, i now realise i just default to agnosticism.
billymills i honestly have no idea how you interpreted my post as 'complete arrogance'.
For me, it depends on what it is. If it's something that doesn't significantly influence our existence, then chances are I might believe it. However theism has just too much unsupported faith and poorly-explained logic that I can't believe it. I love the video, btw.
Personally, I'm an agnostic [and I'm sure most "atheists" are actually agnostics] - and, to me, if you're an adamant atheist, it's a touch arrogant, as you're basically claiming that a god cannot possibly exist despite the fact that human understanding isn't infinite, our understanding of the universe is not either, and there are so many different interpretations of what a god is and what they are capable of that it's simply not scientifically falsifiable.
Also, for the people talking about "not pushing religion on people," you fail to recognize a key feature of Christianity and similar religions - that is, speaking to others others and teaching them their ways so they can be saved and achieve exaltation. They do it out of wanting to share heaven with others. Not doing so is exceptionally selfish and possibly unchristian depending on your individual perception of it. That's a huge thing; holy books have been translated and localized and translated again, thus naturally resulting in inconsistencies, omissions, odd inclusions, and various other aspects that change the meaning of books - and that's not even counting individual interpretations of the scriptures themselves, oi vey.
Thus, why be offended if someone wants to share their religion with you? You shouldn't be - they want to save you and let you share their bounty, whatever that might be. Rather, if you don't want them to talk to you, just ask them to leave you alone. Naturally, harassment could occur, but harassment is hardly the same thing as:
-and, naturally, you can tell them to kindly fuck off or call the authorities if they get really bad, just like any other person.
Note that while this is mainly alluding to Christians and denominations of Christianity [I was born and raised Mormon, and thus have better knowledge of them], it can apply to any other religion, honestly.
Also, for the people talking about "not pushing religion on people," you fail to recognize a key feature of Christianity and similar religions - that is, speaking to others others and teaching them their ways so they can be saved and achieve exaltation. They do it out of wanting to share heaven with others. Not doing so is exceptionally selfish and possibly unchristian depending on your individual perception of it. That's a huge thing; holy books have been translated and localized and translated again, thus naturally resulting in inconsistencies, omissions, odd inclusions, and various other aspects that change the meaning of books - and that's not even counting individual interpretations of the scriptures themselves, oi vey.
Thus, why be offended if someone wants to share their religion with you? You shouldn't be - they want to save you and let you share their bounty, whatever that might be. Rather, if you don't want them to talk to you, just ask them to leave you alone. Naturally, harassment could occur, but harassment is hardly the same thing as:
-and, naturally, you can tell them to kindly fuck off or call the authorities if they get really bad, just like any other person.
Note that while this is mainly alluding to Christians and denominations of Christianity [I was born and raised Mormon, and thus have better knowledge of them], it can apply to any other religion, honestly.
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he was interpreting my post as complete arrogance, but since i feel basically the exact same as you, it's kind of the same thing
though billymills, i respect your right to disagree, but i really don't understand how something like "i am agnostic because i do not specifically believe in anything, but due to me having absolutely NO IDEA about what the fuck is up, me never having an idea about what the fuck is up, and me having absolutely no authority or ability to come to a conclusion about what the fuck is up since i just DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS UP" is abhorrent logic, since it's really not logic just my own opinion, and i really can't take your posts in this thread seriously as you're adamantly referring to religion as an inconsequential issue. while i agree that someone else's religion to you should not have any consequence to your interaction with them, to individuals, their own religious stance is of vast importance. because you feel differently does not mean you have the right to belittle an incredibly important ideal for literally millions of people.
though billymills, i respect your right to disagree, but i really don't understand how something like "i am agnostic because i do not specifically believe in anything, but due to me having absolutely NO IDEA about what the fuck is up, me never having an idea about what the fuck is up, and me having absolutely no authority or ability to come to a conclusion about what the fuck is up since i just DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS UP" is abhorrent logic, since it's really not logic just my own opinion, and i really can't take your posts in this thread seriously as you're adamantly referring to religion as an inconsequential issue. while i agree that someone else's religion to you should not have any consequence to your interaction with them, to individuals, their own religious stance is of vast importance. because you feel differently does not mean you have the right to belittle an incredibly important ideal for literally millions of people.
o i see how he could have interpreted that as arrogance, although it's still wrong. i would also like to see where else i have applied my 'abhorrent logic'. or at least have an explanation as to why it is.