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The Double Battle Metagame (GBU)

cosmicexplorer said:
I get that Friend Guard is a somewhat useful ability, but if you look at that Battle Video, a Thundurus, for example, could have HP Iced Salamence to KO it instead of having Amoonguss take all three attacks. You would have them a Pokemon down and Amoonguss would be at higher health than it would be with Jigglypuff. I'm obviously not saying that support Pokemon are useless, but when that Pokemon does nothing but abuse Friend Guard, an offensive partner or another support Pokemon without such situational use easily outclasses it.
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Nvm mentioning Reuniclus got Trick Room up, as well.

5 full HP Pokes, Trick Room, and virtual dual screens, all in my favor, all on turn two...I dunno...You might wanna look at the whole picture on that one again.
 
Joel: just a note, but your spread for jigglypuff is awful. it should just have 252 def/252 SpD and 4 HP for the best defences due to its huge HP.

anyway, it'd probably be better to wait for clefairy before you try friend guard.
 
lol Joel

Another post itt got me thinking about this: how powerful is Trick Room? In my experience, it's an excellent stop to most goodstuffs and rain or sun teams, especially with Pokemon such as Chandelure or Reuniclus which can set up Trick Room and then attack. It's also able to set up quite easily on a huge number of opposing Pokemon, unlike most weather-based strategies, and the diversity of the abusers makes it so that there's not any one "counter" that stops it straight up. What are your thoughts?
 
cosmicexplorer said:
lol Joel

Another post itt got me thinking about this: how powerful is Trick Room? In my experience, it's an excellent stop to most goodstuffs and rain or sun teams, especially with Pokemon such as Chandelure or Reuniclus which can set up Trick Room and then attack. It's also able to set up quite easily on a huge number of opposing Pokemon, unlike most weather-based strategies, and the diversity of the abusers makes it so that there's not any one "counter" that stops it straight up. What are your thoughts?
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I'm not sure I'd use Chandlure would be very good at setting up Trick Room.

Otherwise, Reuniclus, Dusclops/noir, Bronzong, Slowbro, and Pory2 are all worthwhile. I generally don't use Pokes of a 60+ base speed to set up TR, teamed with two or three non-TR Pokes of 60 or lower base speed.

That's common knowledge stuff about Trick Room though.

As far as power goes, especially in doubles/triples, If you don't KO the set up Poke before it sets up, it's usually game breaking.

In my experience, Amoongus, Togekiss, and Clefable (anything bulky w Follow Me/Rage Powder) assist setting up TR with ease, and have the bulk to usually not get OHKOd.

After that, the opponent won't usually have time to make it up after five turns. I personally like Guts Ursaring and Scizor to bat clean-up. Occassionally Quiet natured Vaporeon (base 65 Speed/base 110 SpAtk).

TR doesn't counter all rain though. Some bulky water types aren't all that fast to start with.
I agree with it countering sun teams with ease though.
 
On a Trick Room team, I would recommend running Parasect or Lickilicky. Parasect is better, as I find bug to be one of the best offensive types in the metagame. It also can make a quick switch into a powerful Surf, while also having uses outside of Rain as a very fast Spores under Trick Room.
 
Lickylicky is THE weather stopper. It has an enormous bulk, and has a "good" ofensive, which could OHKO most weather abusers. I've used it with great success :)

I find TR to be really lethal. First, it screws up with Sand, Sun, and Rain teams; Second, sweepers don't have to invest in speed, leaving space for investing in bulk. Because most TR sweepers are rather bulky, they're harder to take down.

I (L) TR
 
Hey, sorry for double posting, but the thread is kinda...quiet.

Do you know what pkmn I'm loving right now?? Speed Boost Sharpedo.
It's really powerful; not many come prepared for this, and when in Rain, it hits like a muthafucka truck.

Sharpedo @LO
Adamant
[Speed Boost]
EV's: 252 atk, 252 speed, 6 hp
-Waterfall
-Crunch
-Protect
-Ice Fang

Mach Punch weakness sucks, though ._.
 
Why Ice Fang over Ice Beam? You can use a Lonely or Naughty nature since Sharpedo's defenses are terrible anyways, and Ice Beam hits harder than Ice Fang. Also, Ferrothorn walls that quite easily, so Magnezone can make an excellent partner.
 
Normal gem explosions are so amazing. I run gemed gross. Once boosted almost everything nonresistant gets ohko'd. It also beats out non ghost trickroomers. I've been using scarf jellicent(sometimes scarf chandy) as a partner to beat out pokemon who cause gross problems. Also i used a feint-explosion combo with weaville. Basically explosion is one of those moves that can be deadly, and unexpected.
 
Explosion is excellent, just not as spammable as in generation 4. Another cool idea is to use a Ghost-type or Telepathy user with Helping Hand, like Musharna or Dusclops, and combine that with an Explosion user like Metagross or Landorus; it OHKOes a huge amount.
 
Has anyone had any success using the Absorb Bulb/Battery Cell?

I've found more use for the Bulb than the Cell as it's only use seems to be for making Electivire suck less.
 
Battery Cell doesn't work along with Motor Drive lol. Absorb Bulb is really useful for rain teams, allowing Pokemon such as Kingdra or Ludicolo which take very little damage from Surf anyway to become a huge threat with what is basically a Choice Specs boost.
 
Yes, I used an Absorb Bulb Ludicolo and had lots of fun with it. It requires "setup," if you want to use that term, but it gets it safely with Fake Out or by attacking something first turn while Politoed Surfs. Kingdra is another great user of the item, though I don't like it as much on Kingdra because of less complete type coverage.
 
Ashenlock seemed to use absorb bulb colo. He's probally the most experience using it the bulb. A basic run down would be fake out the threat and surf with toed and get an instant 1+.
 
I wouldn't say Kingdra has any less type coverage than Ludicolo; it has near-perfect coverage in only two attacks (both STAB), while Ludicolo requires three to get anywhere near perfect coverage. In addition, Kingdra has significantly higher Special Attack, making the Bulb boost all the more deadly.
 
Yes, that's a good point. Two move near-perfect coverage is often better than 3 move perfect coverage. I do think, though, that the boon of Fake Out slightly outweighs the added moveslot on Kingdra.
 
Well as a lead, probably, but outside a lead, Kingdra makes for a more effective user of Absorb Bulb thanks to its higher Speed and Special Attack. I wasn't saying Ludicolo is better or worse than Kingdra, just that it doesn't have as good coverage as Kingdra does. Kingdra can also use Protect alongside its attacks, while Ludicolo can't at all, especially with Fake Out.
 
cosmicexplorer said:
Well as a lead, probably, but outside a lead, Kingdra makes for a more effective user of Absorb Bulb thanks to its higher Speed and Special Attack. I wasn't saying Ludicolo is better or worse than Kingdra, just that it doesn't have as good coverage as Kingdra does. Kingdra can also use Protect alongside its attacks, while Ludicolo can't at all, especially with Fake Out.
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Outside of it, no doubt, but the chances that Kingdra will be in with a Surf user, unless you are working with a team with a lot of users, outside of the lead, is relatively small. In a situation where it can get in and get that boost, it's very strong, but I'd rather give Ludicolo the Bulb if they're on the same team, and just give Kingdra the Life Orb.
 
Well, considering many rain teams are basically a team full of Surf users, that situation isn't too uncommon lol. In many cases, you can switch Kingdra into Politoed's Surf turn 2 or into a weak or resisted Attack (Kingdra's bulk is good enough to allow it to do this) and just spam Surf from there. I'm not saying it's always better than Ludicolo as a partner; indeed, Ludicolo's ability to use Fake Out and get an Absorb Bulb boost turn 1 is very useful. However, Kingdra's better coverage, ability to use both Surf, Hydro Pump, and Protect, and higher Special Attack makes it excellent competition for Ludicolo as an Absorb Bulb user.
 
You also have the advantage of doing things like breaking multiscale or stoping TR (which can be a huge pain in my experience). Your politoad also ends the fight with a much higher damage output as well
 
Hey, I was thinking of testing a sun team. I always thought it would be fum mindlessly locking my scarf darmanitan into flareblitz and watch the ko's wrack up, but besides from that i've been battling alot of "noob" sun teams with tales+3 chlorophyll+gastro+dragon. I mean making a team like that seems so easy. Anyway have anyone here run a successful sun team. Im currently testing ninetales, scarf darmanitan, venasaur,mix salamence, gemed mamoswine, sashed rotom-heat.


It just seems mamoswine was meant for sun teams, as jolly outspeds heatran, ice gem ice shards beats any mon who is well weak to it, coupled with eq to beat out most sun threats, and Stone edge for coverage.
 
Do you know whick poke I consider to be one of the biggest threats in sun??

CHARIZARD. LOLOLOLOL

I'm not joking ._.

The bad thing about him is that he needs his DW Ability (Search Pokécheck) and a Scarf (when without Tailwind support). But he gets soooo many KO's it's not even funny :)
 
Zard suffers from a not so great speed compared to certain mons, and a huge weakness to the eversocommon rock slide. Im not saying he's not good, but in order to use him to full affect you need sun + speed boosting from tw or scarf. Though resisting eq is good, but then get hit by the discharge, but then again I never used zard so im not one to judge.
 
Just gonna say I'm a firm believer in Ludicolo as one of the best Pokémon in the metagame, and Kingdra not so much.

Also lol Charizard is terrible but only because there's so much rain around.

And as for trick room, I have to say I've never been big on it. It's one of those team styles that is good unless the opponent's prepared for it, since it suffers from being predictable and slow earlygame. Come to think of it even I think every match I won at worlds was against a trick room team except one, and the two matches I lost were to goodstuffs, even if both losses were to the timer instead of actually, well, losing. And both times I would've basically won given another turn. Vs Six, if rock slide didn't miss again and Vs Matty it would've been 100% I think but he knew the game was going to end before that and I didn't. :P

Goddamn why am I so terrible at paying attention
 
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