Swoobat is still very frail, it will be dangerous but it's not easy to switch in and Skuntank will always be a massive deterant to using any Psychic types in NU.
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The Effect of BW2 on Neverused
- Thread starter Django
- Start date
I'm still so utterly angry at how Game Freak is reluctant to giving Flareon Flare Blitz. It breeds with Pokemon that learn Flare Blitz, but can't get it because Eevee can't have Flare Blitz bred onto it! Oh well, Superpower is legal on the Guts set, so Choice Band may not be as terrible as before, but still, the day Game Freak gives Flareon Flare Blitz is the day it'll finally have a very viable offensive set in the lower tiers.
So what do you guys think about Cinccino? Skill Link gave it a huge buff, since it now has a 125 power Normal, Rock and Grass move. As well as U-Turn to finish the moveset. Personally it has been the bane of my offensive teams so far, as I would normally rely on its inconsistency to win, but now that it is consistent it is a force to be reckoned with. What are your thoughts on Cinccino so far? Is it overhyped, or truly one of the best offensive Pokemon around?
Its more consistent than before, but definitely not amazing as it relies on two low accuracy moves that are rage inducing >:[Raseri said:
Rock Blast isn't really a problem on more bulky mons like Armaldo, but Cinccino is extremely frail and provides no team synergy whatsover as it has no resistances. Sure it can 2HKO almost everything, but the stuff it cannot OHKO will most likely be able to squish Cinccino in return as it has terrible bulk. Absol, Gurdurr and Samurott are all extremely popular in NU and can use priority to take out Cinccino, not to mention the myriad of scarfers. That isn't to say Cinccino is bad, it can still clean up easily and is extremely hard to switch into. However, I don't believe that a slight buff, (Skill Link isn't that much better than Technician) will make Cinccino the next Gorebyss/Jynx.
Edit: The loss of Technician also means that Wake-Up Slap won't be doing as much to Bastiodon and Probopass who can otherwise wall Cinccino
Armaldo strong
252Atk Life Orb Technician Cinccino (Neutral) Rock Blast vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Battle Armor Armaldo (+Def): 87% - 104% (310 - 370 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 26% chance to OHKO.
^ Now factor in SR.
Thats jolly cinccino since adamant is a bad idea.
Pretty much to get rid of Cinccino you'll have to rely on outspeeding it/revenging/letting LO recoil wear it down into priority kill range.
Super bulky stuff like Alo and Amoongus should fair well against it though.
252Atk Life Orb Technician Cinccino (Neutral) Rock Blast vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Battle Armor Armaldo (+Def): 87% - 104% (310 - 370 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 26% chance to OHKO.
^ Now factor in SR.
Thats jolly cinccino since adamant is a bad idea.
Pretty much to get rid of Cinccino you'll have to rely on outspeeding it/revenging/letting LO recoil wear it down into priority kill range.
Super bulky stuff like Alo and Amoongus should fair well against it though.
While Alomomola and Amoonguss can recover their hp now thanks to Regenerator, Cincinno still hits both of them really hard and if not using LO (it dies too fast with LO) and counting with hazards support he is able to 2hko both of them, even if they go out to get regen effects.
Not all is lost, I have found the supreme counter to Cincinno, not only it resist all of its move with its amazing physical bulk, and amazing support moves such as Stealth Rock, such an impressive list can only belong to the one and only Metang. With the buffed Alomomola, passing wishes to our little friend, it is easier than ever making its survival easy. The mighty Metang also sets up on Amoonguss, Alomomola, and other defensive pokemon easily while having enough bulk to prevent cincinno from breaking its subs.
Here it is ,the mighty Metang in all his glory:
GOD (Metang) @ Eviolite
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Toxic
Such an amazing set. This beast is a top counter to some threats and can set up Stealth Rock reliably, with maximum bulk even the mighty Skill Link Cincinno fails to hit for over 25% and forces it out tand take residual damage. Meteor Mash is Metang's strongest attack and coupled with Metang's amazing typing and physical bulk, getting a hit and possibly an attack boost to make things hide in fear in the deepest abyss . Earthquake is overall metang best secondary offensive move and hits other Metang, random steel-types that are not holding an air balloon. Last slot is up to what you want Metang to do, Substitute allows you to cockblock Amoonguss and if you have enough hazards make it scared of going out while you can outstall it and try to get a few Attack boosts from Meteor Mash while Toxic makes Alomomola think twice before coming in and sacrificing its utility.
Because of Metang slight 4mss, hard hitting special attackers such as Charizard will love being with it, they not only have decent synergy, Charizard is able to remove everything that can threaten our little steel friend and roast them away with its powerful special attacks that should get popular once Magmortar goes up. Because Metang amazing typing and ability to force out top threats such as Cincinno, and Braviary, teammates that set up hazards are vital for it, problem is they don't have the best synergy with Metang but they benefit from the resists he brings to the team. Alomomola is also a great partner by making Metang immortal.
Hone Claws can be considered too to humilliate your opponent when they get swept by the mighty Metang. You can set up easily on both Amoonguss and Alomomola to +6, but be aware that metang is so weak that alomomola can outstall it with Wish+Protect. If doing this both Thunderpunch and Ice Punch should be Metang offensive moves.
TL;DR: Get a Metang on your team today.
Jokes aside, Metang is shit and should never be used
These metang jokes are getting increasingly worse.
But anyways I think cinccino is quite hard to handle mainly due to not much can wall it, and what can take a few hits cant really do anything back; see: metang.
But anyways I think cinccino is quite hard to handle mainly due to not much can wall it, and what can take a few hits cant really do anything back; see: metang.
LOL Metang xD
Anyway, Cinccino with Skill Link is really hard to handle, especially when running Choice Band or Life Orb. Almost nothing is able to switch in on the Choice Band set with hazards up, even Tangela, Amoonguss etc really struggle. Bastiodon and Probopass are good checks, but a lot of the time will simply be hit by U-Turn and then forced out again, and if Spikes are down this will quickly become dangerous. It is weak to priority etc, but that becomes less of an issue if Cinccino is on the team with the momentum, as it will ideally be able to get in on something it can force out, basically guaranteeing it a kill.
Anyway, Cinccino with Skill Link is really hard to handle, especially when running Choice Band or Life Orb. Almost nothing is able to switch in on the Choice Band set with hazards up, even Tangela, Amoonguss etc really struggle. Bastiodon and Probopass are good checks, but a lot of the time will simply be hit by U-Turn and then forced out again, and if Spikes are down this will quickly become dangerous. It is weak to priority etc, but that becomes less of an issue if Cinccino is on the team with the momentum, as it will ideally be able to get in on something it can force out, basically guaranteeing it a kill.
Ammonguss will be cool for the two months that we have it XD
How useful would a Musharna with Pain Split + Heal Bell sound? It's Taunt bait, but I think it can fulfill a niche in NU as a Support/Utility Pokemon.
Maybe something more along the lines of this:
Musharna @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Synchronize | Bold | 252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp.D
- Psychic
- Pain Split
- Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave/Toxic/Heal Bell
Maybe something more along the lines of this:
Musharna @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Synchronize | Bold | 252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp.D
- Psychic
- Pain Split
- Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave/Toxic/Heal Bell
I think braviary just got a bit too much for its own good there and I think it will be snatched up by the RU bunch or will just be considered too good. Defensive carracosta would be interesting now I think.
Yeah I think the standard Musharna will look something like Moonlight / Heal Bell / CM / Psychic, or variants on that. Synchronize + Heal Bell is also really really fun, as you can just switch into Toxic or Will-O-Wisp all day long, slowing down the opposing team and just healing yourself next turn.
As for Braviary, I can definitely see it moving up to RU, as the versatility provided by Roost is amazing. However, there is not guarantee that will happen, and even if it doesn't I think it will still fit nicely in NU. It doesn't seem anywhere near as dangerous as something like SubRoost Staraptor was in UU, mainly due to Superpower forcing it to switch pretty often, and a subpar Speed stat.
Carracosta: I still maintain Relicanth is better defensively. The sheer power of Head Smash makes up for the drop in Attack, and the superior bulk more than makes up for Aqua Jet. Solid Rock is what Carracosta really has going for it, but Rock Head + Head Smash is equally fun. Carracosta will still be decent defensively, but I would rather use Relicanth most of the time.
Also, could we please try add more substance to our posts than the few recent one line posts here. Lets discuss things, rather than just stating them.
As for Braviary, I can definitely see it moving up to RU, as the versatility provided by Roost is amazing. However, there is not guarantee that will happen, and even if it doesn't I think it will still fit nicely in NU. It doesn't seem anywhere near as dangerous as something like SubRoost Staraptor was in UU, mainly due to Superpower forcing it to switch pretty often, and a subpar Speed stat.
Carracosta: I still maintain Relicanth is better defensively. The sheer power of Head Smash makes up for the drop in Attack, and the superior bulk more than makes up for Aqua Jet. Solid Rock is what Carracosta really has going for it, but Rock Head + Head Smash is equally fun. Carracosta will still be decent defensively, but I would rather use Relicanth most of the time.
Also, could we please try add more substance to our posts than the few recent one line posts here. Lets discuss things, rather than just stating them.
Something that has been overlooked recently is Synthesis Tangela. It no longer needs to rely on switching out or Leech Seed to recover HP, which helps it a lot against things like SubSD Lickilicky. I run a set of Leech Seed / Giga Drain / HP Ice / Synthesis, but it could go over Leech Seed if you really want to use Sleep Powder.
Definitely gonna try out Sawk with Sub-Painsplit. Something like 252 Atk/252 Spd w/ Jolly nature. Sub/Painsplit/CC/EQ with Mold Breaker. You won't have to worry about hitting Missy because of MB, you get a nice SE hit on Eel and plenty of other pokes. Maybe the ev's could use tweaking to get the most out of pain split but idk as of yet.
Beedrill gets Drill Run. I'm just so excited for it with Sniper.
In all seriousness, another thing I'm interested in now is HarvestRoost Tropius. Doubled PP, temporary resistances to Electric and cutting Ice damage in half? Yes please. I also noticed Tropius has 51 base speed, 1 more than Elektross and Beartic. Amusing if nothing else.
In all seriousness, another thing I'm interested in now is HarvestRoost Tropius. Doubled PP, temporary resistances to Electric and cutting Ice damage in half? Yes please. I also noticed Tropius has 51 base speed, 1 more than Elektross and Beartic. Amusing if nothing else.
Just noticed something that may or may not be more threatening.
Heatmor
Certainly not the offensive fire juggernaut that is Emboar, Heatmor certainly has some odd niche it could fill as a special attacker or mixed attacker.
With BW2, Heatmor now has Superpower, Low Kick, Giga Drain and the elemental punches added to its arsenal.
Although its defenses are garbage it now has a greater addition to its move pool which I think may give it some use. Something like Sucker Punch/Fire Blast (or Flamethrower)/Focus Blast/Giga Drain is decent.
Could also go pure physical and be outclassed by Emboar if thats your thing.
Fire Punch/Superpower (or Low Kick)/Sucker Punch/Body Slam or another elemental punch.
Edit-
Just noticed it has Gluttony and with those berries being released, maybe something like Sub/Fire Blast/Focus Blast/Giga Drain? Although its probably already slow enough for it to get hit into Gluttony range anyways. It would certainly appreciate the +1 from Petaya
Heatmor
Certainly not the offensive fire juggernaut that is Emboar, Heatmor certainly has some odd niche it could fill as a special attacker or mixed attacker.
With BW2, Heatmor now has Superpower, Low Kick, Giga Drain and the elemental punches added to its arsenal.
Although its defenses are garbage it now has a greater addition to its move pool which I think may give it some use. Something like Sucker Punch/Fire Blast (or Flamethrower)/Focus Blast/Giga Drain is decent.
Could also go pure physical and be outclassed by Emboar if thats your thing.
Fire Punch/Superpower (or Low Kick)/Sucker Punch/Body Slam or another elemental punch.
Edit-
Just noticed it has Gluttony and with those berries being released, maybe something like Sub/Fire Blast/Focus Blast/Giga Drain? Although its probably already slow enough for it to get hit into Gluttony range anyways. It would certainly appreciate the +1 from Petaya
Giga Drain is about the only really usable thing Heatmor got, but it certainly gives it a good boost. It can now run an effective Specs set with Fire Blast / Giga Drain / Focus Blast / HP Ice, giving it great coverage and a huge amount of power. It is still kind of outclassed by Emboar and Magmortar (even as a Specs set), but Magmortar may soon be leaving the tier and having Flash Fire is a cool niche over Emboar.
Oh wow I completely forgot about Magmortar. If he does leave then I suppose Heatmor could try and fit in his foot steps. Albeit slower and slightly less bulky. Emboar also has not being weak to SR over Heatmor which is pretty big. Heatmor is somewhere in the middle of the two I'd suppose.
None the less I'm determined to make Heatmor work.
None the less I'm determined to make Heatmor work.
I think butterfree has had giga drain the entire time. I know I saw it in her move pool but not sure it was allowed with Sleep Powder/some of the abilities. Its definitely useful although you much rather get hp rock so you have an easier time with the birds. Otherwise you have no means of hitting them.
Will someone slit my throat for me, Stealth Rock will be HELL for so many pokemon here. Say goodbye to my favorite Bug Flying Sweepers... It scares me how many pokemon will be getting it now. but really Low Kick Dodrio stands out now.
Dodrio did not receive Low Kick unfortunately.
Also tested a few more random things today-
Liepard is surprisingly useful. A simple 252/252 spread w/Timid nature and NP/Encore/Dark Pulse/HP Fighting finds so many opportunities to set up and take something out then proceed to do more damage and eventually die or just switch out to come in again. 106 Spd is pretty good for NU and you really should be running Timid to take advantage of it.
Amoonguss (physically defensive) + Audino (specially defensive) forms a really good core for balanced teams. They cover each other well, both have Regenerator and don't seem to die. Very annoying. They're able to check a lot of offensive threats although they can become set up bait for some bulkier pokes that use Sub+a set up move.
Something that I haven't seen people talk about here (you guys probably have and I just skipped over it) is Golurk. Now with the elemental punches and Drain Punch boosted by Iron Fist he really has no reason NOT to be successful. The Rock Polish set is a great late game sweeper. Its STABs hit like a truck, especially if you choose LO over Leftovers.
Random sets I've made and stored in my box/used a little
Also tested a few more random things today-
Liepard is surprisingly useful. A simple 252/252 spread w/Timid nature and NP/Encore/Dark Pulse/HP Fighting finds so many opportunities to set up and take something out then proceed to do more damage and eventually die or just switch out to come in again. 106 Spd is pretty good for NU and you really should be running Timid to take advantage of it.
Amoonguss (physically defensive) + Audino (specially defensive) forms a really good core for balanced teams. They cover each other well, both have Regenerator and don't seem to die. Very annoying. They're able to check a lot of offensive threats although they can become set up bait for some bulkier pokes that use Sub+a set up move.
Something that I haven't seen people talk about here (you guys probably have and I just skipped over it) is Golurk. Now with the elemental punches and Drain Punch boosted by Iron Fist he really has no reason NOT to be successful. The Rock Polish set is a great late game sweeper. Its STABs hit like a truck, especially if you choose LO over Leftovers.
Random sets I've made and stored in my box/used a little
Zangoose (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Toxic Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Night Slash
- Facade
- Swords Dance/Quick Attack (depends if you want to try a set like ursaring or a hit and run set like cinccino)
Liepard (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Encore
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
Musharna (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight
- Psychic
Swoobat (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Simple
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Energy Ball/Psychic/Psyshock/Stored Power
- Air Slash
Heatmor (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SAtk / 124 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Flamethrower
- Sucker Punch
Sawk (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 32 HP / 224 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge/EQ/Payback
Trait: Toxic Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Night Slash
- Facade
- Swords Dance/Quick Attack (depends if you want to try a set like ursaring or a hit and run set like cinccino)
Liepard (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Encore
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
Musharna (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight
- Psychic
Swoobat (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Simple
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Energy Ball/Psychic/Psyshock/Stored Power
- Air Slash
Heatmor (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SAtk / 124 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Flamethrower
- Sucker Punch
Sawk (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 32 HP / 224 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge/EQ/Payback
breh
強いだね
liepard... huh. It could actually be... decent? Wow.
Golurk is RU.
Agreeing that Swoobat will be great fun. Calm Mind + Assist Power is a match made in heaven strictly for Swoobat. There's a reason why it has such shitty everything bar Speed - it was intended to boost it with Calm Mind. Post CM, it has effective 128 base SpD, its Special Attack becomes far greater, and Assist Power becomes a good 100 BP move. Get two Calm Minds in and you literally sweep everything - you have +4 with a 180 BP STAB move. Unless your opponent runs something stupid like max SpD/HP+ musharna, after 2 CMs, you win. Anything that doesn't resist dies. Even Skuntank is OHKOed by Air Slash pretty comfortably after 2 CMs.
A simple set of CM/Sub/Assist Power/Air Slash with LO will do wonders.
Such a pity that this guy doesn't get BP; it would be insta-RU or something.
Oh, and heatmor will still suck :/
Golurk is RU.
Agreeing that Swoobat will be great fun. Calm Mind + Assist Power is a match made in heaven strictly for Swoobat. There's a reason why it has such shitty everything bar Speed - it was intended to boost it with Calm Mind. Post CM, it has effective 128 base SpD, its Special Attack becomes far greater, and Assist Power becomes a good 100 BP move. Get two Calm Minds in and you literally sweep everything - you have +4 with a 180 BP STAB move. Unless your opponent runs something stupid like max SpD/HP+ musharna, after 2 CMs, you win. Anything that doesn't resist dies. Even Skuntank is OHKOed by Air Slash pretty comfortably after 2 CMs.
A simple set of CM/Sub/Assist Power/Air Slash with LO will do wonders.
Such a pity that this guy doesn't get BP; it would be insta-RU or something.
Oh, and heatmor will still suck :/
Something I haven't seen anyone mention is that Defiant Braviary is released (according to Serebii, anyway). It's not a huge boost but it's nice to have a usable ability instead of Keen Eye.
Toxic Boost Zangoose is out too. It might have some potential as a faster but frailer and weaker Guts Ursaring. 90 base speed isn't terrible in NU.
Toxic Boost Zangoose is out too. It might have some potential as a faster but frailer and weaker Guts Ursaring. 90 base speed isn't terrible in NU.