Other The Lack of Power Creep in Gen 6

[Adamant Zoroark]

I can pretty much sum up the whole argument with Megas like this.

No items, no win. Everyone will be without their precious Life Orb or Choice Scarf that they desperately need. The few pokemon that are better without the items in the Mega Evolution are either too outclassed in their role by other surrounding pokemon (Mega Banette) or too overpower that they are Ubers material (Mega Blaziken).

You're overlooking a few. Mega Mawile, Mega Absol, Mega Gengar, Mega Aggron (not sure this will be OU but it still falls under this category) and Mega Charizard X are all better than their original forms, even factoring in the lack of an item. Also, Mega Lucario is certain to have a niche over regular Lucario in that Mega Lucario has considerably higher Speed, making it less reliant on priority to work.

It's not as clear-cut as you think it is.

 

[Cowtao]

But the problem with that argument is that all of them, minus a few are most likely gonna be suspect tested and ousted out from OU. Shadow Tag on a Gengar, an upgraded one no less with a raised Satk over 160 is NO joke and will strike fear into everyone's hearts not named Aegislash. Even with Aegislash, that's just one pokemon MegaGengar is scarred of. Mega Aggron has gotten the shaft mainly because of it's disappointing raise in SDef, and it's now sub-par pure steel typing. Mega Mawile has a monstrous Base Attack with Huge Power which will prove to be no joke to the meta game under Trick Room. The upgraded defenses on Defense and Special Defense will prove that MegaMawile will not slouch on his defense priorities. Mega Charizard X cannot be burned and has a decent Base Speed of 100. With it's unique typing and powerful attacks he'll become a wrecking ball. Not being noticed now, but will eventually become a beast in it's own nature in the later metagame. Finally...MegaLucario is basically a regular Lucario but much more better with an Atk Base of 145. With it's trademark Swords Dance set and an increase in it's own lackluster speed for OU from 90 to 112; MegaLucario will most likely be suspected to rather if it's harmful towards the OU environment.

[To be honest, I gained the regular stats from Serebii which isn't exactly accurate. But to be honest, it's still a general raise in said stats into each MegaEvo. Just wanted to clear it up.]

 

[Antarctic Termite]

Mega Mewtwo is weaker than LO Mewtwo lol.
Such is the case for lots of Megas.

I'm not sure if this is relevant for Megatwo X. I'm pretty sure its Attack is more powerful than Life Orb Mewtwo, but it's a difficult comparison to make considering the difference in typing and function. Also, Megatwo X is bulkier on both sides.

 

[Goodbar]

I'd be really surprised if Mega Gengar wasn't banned. Even without an item, it should pack enough of a punch (plus the great movepool) to exterminate quite a few viable OU threats. It's added bulk and extraordinary speed on top of that make it a ridiculously formidable revenge killer and trapper. Its only drawback is not being able to trap the first instance. Any pursuit users I can think of it can deal with effectively (Scizor and Aegislash can play mind games I guess). Besides this I guess Mega Blaziken will make the jump to Ubers.

As for OU viability, probably not as many as what it first seemed. Not counting already OU pokemon, Charizard X (maybe Y but the weather nerf hurts) and Mawhile are the only standouts. The lack of items will have a pretty negative impact on most I'd imagine. It doesn't really seem like most of the OU Megas may even be that much better than standard versions with items at their disposal (Mega Lucario is one example that should be pretty objectively better partially thanks to its ability).

 

[Mattman324]

Mega Aggron has gotten the shaft mainly because of it's disappointing raise in SDef, and it's now sub-par pure steel typing.

The reason it's considered so good for stalling is the fact that, factoring Filter in, its few "weaknesses" are barely better than regular attacks (1.3x power I think? Instead of 2x, that's HUGE). The loss of the rock type stopped things like Fighting and Ground from still demolishing it.

Also, every discussion of "x pokemon does worse without an item except (insert group)" that doesn't include Kangaskhan is laughable. Even if you go around the madness Power Up Punch can bring in, you effectively get Choice Band power for NO NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECT, plus extra stats.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I've edited the OP to warn that discussing whether mega evolutions should or should not be banned is not acceptable. Please read the rules. Do carry on with discussion though.

For my own opinion, while I do see that GF has done a lot to neuter purely offensive strategies and add a lot tamer Pokemon and more defensive Pokemon, I don't think these are changes that will promote full stall. We have a lot of new threats, all of whom can do something very unique and powerful. For instance, Togekiss's improvements might actually devastate stall, as a popularization of something bulky, fast(er than stall poes), with recovery and the ability to boost itself or heal status from itself can (will?) cause a real nightmare for a team trying to set up hazards and shuffle enemies around to win.

All these changes-- imo-- only further cement bulky offense (and maybe semi-stall teams as well) as king.

 

[Ckarasu]

As for OU viability, probably not as many as what it first seemed. Not counting already OU pokemon, Charizard X (maybe Y but the weather nerf hurts) and Mawhile are the only standouts. The lack of items will have a pretty negative impact on most I'd imagine. It doesn't really seem like most of the OU Megas may even be that much better than standard versions with items at their disposal (Mega Lucario is one example that should be pretty objectively better partially thanks to its ability).

Life Orb, and the choice items, are pretty trash for any of these pokemon. There, I said it. That power boost is nice, but that recoil is killer. I'd rather be close to life orb in power, and have no recoil, than actually have Life Orb. Same deal with choice, as being locked into one move is legitimately terrible. The increased speed and defenses many of these pokemon got also help. Mega Absol is pretty legit, while the normal one(with life orb) is garbage in comparison. Mega Pinsir gets Aerilate and priority STAB. Mega Houndoom is way better than normal Houndoom. And Mega Mewtwo Y is so close in power to Mewtwo with Life Orb that it's irrelevant. Of course, not all Megas are winners(Poor Gyarados and Garchomp), but most got straight upgrades that make their life orb version obsolete(if only due to some of them becoming fast enough to use this strength).

TL;DR: "Life Orb is stronger, lol" is a super insignificant argument and I am tired of hearing it. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Goodbar]

I do agree the "lol life orb is better" stuff doesn't apply to much at all... On the other hand, to elaborate on specifics, I do agree Garchomp and Gyarados probably won't see much use (I mean if you can only use one mega then...). Scizor's arguably best set was the Choice Band set and the mega won't be doing that better at all, though it could possibly pull off a bulky SD set (but no leftovers isn't great). Venasaur was OU for the sun mostly, the mega seems 'better' outside of sun but not sure if that will translate to OU material. Alakazam is a glass cannon regardless and Magic Guard is a better ability (that negates LO damage!) despite better speed. Tyranitar is versatile and can run a lot of sets better without mega evo. I think that covers everything, and granted this is all theory/speculation but all those Pokemon have sets that do something better than their Mega Evo could do it.

As for Pokemon that could jump up to OU, I don't know. A lot are very better mega-evolved but can't say how many can make the leap. Charizard and Mawhile have the benefit of exceptional typing/abilities (might be overestimating Mawhile, still has that awful 50 hp...)

 

[56k]

My favorite addition this generation is not Fairy's immunity to dragon but actually Fairy's resistance to fighting. Very significant change to help curb Terrakion, Keldeo, Infernape and Lucario. Mega-Evolutions have indeed added a few new power houses but the fact that it sacrifices another item is usually compensation. A lot of bread and butter moves like Ice Beam and Hurricane have been nerfed too, and there aren't many new scary moves. Overall I have to say I am looking forward to Gen 6. I'd like to see big bulky pokemon like Swampert and Snorlax start to make a comeback.

 

[Gerard]

To me the biggest problem with MegaGengar is Destiny Bond, even if you manage to send your pursuiter to kill gengar on the turn it uses to Megavolve (and remember he also used an attack so you have to survive that too), he can just as easily use Destiny Bond to take you with him, yes it sacrificed itself to do so, but he can almost guarantee that one mon is going down with him anyway and you just lost one of the 3 mons that can survive to pursuit Gengar without being afraid of being killed by Focus Blast/Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb

 

[Thorhammer]

Why does Mega Alakazam already have to be Mega-Evolved, when we know Mega-Evolution does not take a turn?

Turn order is set before Mega Evolution happens, so Alakazam will be slower than Mega Gengar on the turn it Mega Evolves.

 

[GrepherDK]

Yes, but the bulk doesn't matter because it's still frail. As for the speed, I don't think Mega Gengar is going to appreciate priority Brave Birds from Talonflame, Shadow Sneaks from Aegislash, Bullet Punches from Mega Lucario and Mega Scizor, Sucker Punches from Mega Mawile, Absol, Kangaskhan, and scarf users.

Those examples really don't matter though, because Gangar can just pick and chose WHO it wants to tango with thanks to Shadow Tag.

Even if it gets pursuit trapped, its probably already netted you a 1-1.

 

[Aldrius]

I can pretty m uch sum up the whole argument with Megas like this.

No items, no win. Everyone will be without their precious Life Orb or Choice Scarf that they desperately need. The few pokemon that are better without the items in the Mega Evolution are either too outclassed in their role by other surrounding pokemon (Mega Banette) or too overpower that they are Ubers material (Mega Blaziken).

There's a bunch that are better than they are without their item of choice. (Lack of recoil/lock is nice for one thing) Absol is infinitely better with boosted special attack and speed. (Added attack doesn't hurt) Mawile's attack is doubled and then some. (Added to it's better typing, it's gotten a huge boost.) MegaKhangaskhan has better attack and a really cool ability. Swords Dance Scizor was popular, MegaScizor has better defenses and still has roost for recovery, so I think that's an option. MegaLucario has better speed and it's ability is cool.

All the Kanto Megas are cool and give a big boost. Charizard wasn't NU JUST because of a Stealth Rock weakness, it was also because he had nothing spectacular to make up for that weakness, and his typing was bad otherwise too. A 170 Special Attack mixed with a sun boosted Fire Blast is pretty sweet. And dragon/fire STAB is really good, added to it's boosted attack power. MegaBlastoise is a great spinner and has enough firepower with it's now very wide powerful movepool to take out a lot of spinblockers. MegaVenusaur has a great typing (with Thick Fat) with a lot of good resistances, is immune to toxic, absorbs toxic spikes, immune to spore and sleep powder. No leftovers hurts, but it has Leech Seed to help with that. MegaBlaziken is better but admittedly kind of unnecessary. MegaPinsir is cool and I think defog will help him a lot, I also think his attack and move options are good enough to make an impact. MegaGyarados I don't have much of an opinion on, but Mold Breaker is a good ability and it has good stats while still being able to take advantage of Intimidate. Mega Heracross seems kinda iffy. Strong multi-hit moves are good, especially when it comes to things like Multiscale and Substitutes, and it hits really hard with no downside, it also hits like a truck. MegaAlakazam is sort of odd, a speed AND special attack boost is great, but good speed doesn't help it much with strong priority attacks and it can be whittled down unlike Alakazam. MegaAerodactyl's pretty good. Decent bulk, great speed and it hits as hard as a train with good coverage too.

Mega Ampharos is good too I think. Typing is really good, and it has good bulk. It also has great coverage with it's STAB moves and it has a pretty wide movepool, it's attack is also decent enough to use some of the physical attacks it has (like fire punch). I think the main thing a lot of mega evolutions provide is that they provide versatility over pure power. Yeah, MegaScizor isn't as strong as banded Scizor, but it's bulkier and doesn't get locked into a move which can potentially makes it more unpredictable and easier to use well. Honestly, I think that the pokemon with MegaEvolutions just hit way too hard for them not to be useful. Even things like MegaHeracross that people are saying are bad, has the highest base attack stat in the game (Except for MegaMewtwo X, MegaMawile and MegaMedicham) and has base-120 STAB attacks to take advantage of it. Without getting locked and without getting recoil.

 

[Sebasti]

Maybe I'm the off-guy here, but I personally see Mega Gengar as a good OU but far far from Ubers. Just the loss of levitate, opening it up to get checked by EQ (which is practically a pre-requisite to be in ubers) makes it hell for him. Because of Levi, he would only be stoppable with dark/psy/ghost type moves, but now with him having an exploitable ground weakness on top of a decent-but-not-great 80def and only 60hp? Sure yeah, having the 170/130 for his sweeping stats is really nice but when you have mega alakazam and mega aerodactyl running around outpacing him, and pretty much anything scarfed ready to kill it or simply exploit its sub-100 defenses with huge attacks (here's looking at you, drizzle specs kyogre) then you've got a pokemon that, in my eyes, would've been better left as a LO or scarfed sweeper.

But then again, that's just me. I mean it'll dent almost anything it rams into pretty badly, but just that loss of ground immunity is crushing. When it comes to megas, I feel more like you're trading an item slot for slightly boosted stats and a new ability, and it seems that for the most part these abilities and stats aren't really worth it outside of teams tailored to benefit from it (sand teams for mega garchomp, for example)

 

[Karxrida]

Remember, Kyurem-B was OU last gen despite how scary it looked. Last time we started out with nobody banned and went from there, and that's a pretty good model to begin this gen too.

I personally found Kyurem-B ridiculously easy to deal with. Anytime I saw one it was never able to take out more than one of my 'mons, and I could usually one-shot it.

 

[SkaterTrainer]

Maybe I'm the off-guy here, but I personally see Mega Gengar as a good OU but far far from Ubers. Just the loss of levitate, opening it up to get checked by EQ (which is practically a pre-requisite to be in ubers) makes it hell for him. Because of Levi, he would only be stoppable with dark/psy/ghost type moves, but now with him having an exploitable ground weakness on top of a decent-but-not-great 80def and only 60hp? Sure yeah, having the 170/130 for his sweeping stats is really nice but when you have mega alakazam and mega aerodactyl running around outpacing him, and pretty much anything scarfed ready to kill it or simply exploit its sub-100 defenses with huge attacks (here's looking at you, drizzle specs kyogre) then you've got a pokemon that, in my eyes, would've been better left as a LO or scarfed sweeper.

But then again, that's just me. I mean it'll dent almost anything it rams into pretty badly, but just that loss of ground immunity is crushing. When it comes to megas, I feel more like you're trading an item slot for slightly boosted stats and a new ability, and it seems that for the most part these abilities and stats aren't really worth it outside of teams tailored to benefit from it (sand teams for mega garchomp, for example)

It has shadow tag. Why would a gengar EVER put himself into a situation where he can be EQ'd? The point is you pick and choose. Even if they try to revenge kill/pursuit you, you have destiny bond. Gengar is a 2 for 1 at LEAST. I honestly think Shadow Ball/Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb/Destiny Bond to be the norm. It's the best revenge killer in the game (imo) after it mega evolves before the revenge kill.

 

[ApolloZen]

The one that scares me the most is Mega Mewtwo X and Y. Seriously, an already incredibly versatile Pokemon with Uber stats and which is probably one of the best special attackers in the entire game, and now it gets boosted to become even more powerful stats wise ?

What was Gamefreak thinking?

He is an iconic legendary. Mega Mewtwo Y is approximately the same as LO Mewtwo, but with Insomnia to help him destroy Darkrai easier. Mega Mewtwo X fulfils a different role, but again with about the same power of LO Mewtwo...just in a different way.

Besides...as you said "Uber stats", just don't play Ubers if you don't want to deal with it. The biggest advantage from the Mega Mewtwos will be the surprise element, not knowing if they are running a LO, Y or X variant.

 

[Sebasti]

It has shadow tag. Why would a gengar EVER put himself into a situation where he can be EQ'd? The point is you pick and choose. Even if they try to revenge kill/pursuit you, you have destiny bond. Gengar is a 2 for 1 at LEAST. I honestly think Shadow Ball/Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb/Destiny Bond to be the norm. It's the best revenge killer in the game (imo) after it mega evolves before the revenge kill.

Its not a "why would he" its a "does he have a choice?"
EQ is pretty standard issue, I can't really think of any particular pokemon that sit in ubers that aren't packing at least that much power. As far as "best revenge killer", I don't know about that either. Alakazam not only outpacing it but hitting much harder with the coverage from psychic/fighting on hand and pretty much being a guaranteed amount faster than anything that would be coming out on top of the practically guaranteed OHKO with specs on seems to be even better unless ME shadow tag happens to outspeed a switch.

It would have to invest exclusively into speed and SP. Atk to keep its place, and even then sending out something like Aerodactyl, or really anything scarfed above terra would find its way through the pitiable 60/65/95. Pretty much odds in say if you're sending in Gengar, you'd better hope that its not a switch-in or you've made one hell of a good read, because I've seen explouds with more bulk than that. Past that you need to base the idea on "if he does/doesn't switch out, will my attack actually kill?" I mean you have destiny bond, sure, but you'll be taking that risk that they aren't going to set up while you are guessing. Worst come to, they lose one pokemon and you've lost your only mega, and in marches the superior choices. I'm not saying he isn't a viable choice, yeah as I said he'll be a powerhouse in OU but to say he is an uber candidate is a bit Farfetched.

 

[SkaterTrainer]

Its not a "why would he" its a "does he have a choice?"
EQ is pretty standard issue, I can't really think of any particular pokemon that sit in ubers that aren't packing at least that much power. As far as "best revenge killer", I don't know about that either. Alakazam not only outpacing it but hitting much harder with the coverage from psychic/fighting on hand and pretty much being a guaranteed amount faster than anything that would be coming out on top of the practically guaranteed OHKO with specs on seems to be even better unless ME shadow tag happens to outspeed a switch.

It would have to invest exclusively into speed and SP. Atk to keep its place, and even then sending out something like Aerodactyl, or really anything scarfed above terra would find its way through the pitiable 60/65/95. Pretty much odds in say if you're sending in Gengar, you'd better hope that its not a switch-in or you've made one hell of a good read, because I've seen explouds with more bulk than that. Past that you need to base the idea on "if he does/doesn't switch out, will my attack actually kill?" I mean you have destiny bond, sure, but you'll be taking that risk that they aren't going to set up while you are guessing. Worst come to, they lose one pokemon and you've lost your only mega, and in marches the superior choices. I'm not saying he isn't a viable choice, yeah as I said he'll be a powerhouse in OU but to say he is an uber candidate is a bit Farfetched.

"does he have a choice?"

Of course he fucking does. You can choose when to send him in and evolve him. If someone is somewhat intelligent, they'll know how to properly switch in to not get EQ'd. Pokemon who run EQ are obvious, they're physical sweepers like Terrakion, Tyrantiar, etc. You're not going to switch into something like that without proper scouting. Gengar is good because he will seem to be broken in good hands, he's a 2 for 1 at WORST. I can't speak for the metagame as a whole, but its easy to see gengar being the best. It's rocking 130 speed base stat and 170 base special attack the best part being your opponent can't switch out. So if you know what the fuck you're doing you're GOING to kill what you bring him in to revenge on. He doesn't even have to worry about pursuit because you can destiny bond and kill their pursuit user. Congrats, you've traded 2 pokemon for 2 pokemon in a revenge kill situation. Hell you can switch him in on immunities or resist and you can even bring him in on a choice user earthquake before you mega evolve him, potentially scoring a 2 for 1.

You're saying this assuming someone is stupid enough to stay in on something that's obviously faster. If they send in a terrakion after you trap-kill something, why the fuck would you stay in. You KNOW it's scarfed at that point and if you bring in an aerodactyle that's not mega evolved you'll speed tie if you're timid and they're jolly because turn order is made before mega evolution, but again, why would you stay in on things that kill you. Just because something kills it doesn't mean it's not going to be completely dominant and probably banned. Even if they double switch your position is reset, you and your opponent are at a stalemate, you obviously don't keep him in.

Something doesn't have to be bulky to be good, that's such a flawed concept, it's so fast that it will outspeed anything thats not 130+ or wearing a scarf, you are assuming gengar is going to stay in when that's so foolish to do so. The best part about Gengar is he traps, the reason Dugtrio and Gothettle were good last gen is because they trapped and killed threats, gengar can do that to just about every pokemon and probably kill 2 by himself.

You're also talking like we have to make sure he's balanced in Ubers, being that uber pokemon hit harder. Ubers is a banlist first and a tier second.

 

[kniteowl]

"does he have a choice?"

Of course he fucking does. You can choose when to send him in and evolve him. If someone is somewhat intelligent, they'll know how to properly switch in to not get EQ'd. Pokemon who run EQ are obvious, they're physical sweepers like Terrakion, Tyrantiar, etc. You're not going to switch into something like that without proper scouting. Gengar is good because he will seem to be broken in good hands, he's a 2 for 1 at WORST. I can't speak for the metagame as a whole, but its easy to see gengar being the best. It's rocking 130 speed base stat and 170 base special attack the best part being your opponent can't switch out. So if you know what the fuck you're doing you're GOING to kill what you bring him in to revenge on. He doesn't even have to worry about pursuit because you can destiny bond and kill their pursuit user. Congrats, you've traded 2 pokemon for 2 pokemon in a revenge kill situation. Hell you can switch him in on immunities or resist and you can even bring him in on a choice user earthquake before you mega evolve him, potentially scoring a 2 for 1.

You're saying this assuming someone is stupid enough to stay in on something that's obviously faster. If they send in a terrakion after you trap-kill something, why the fuck would you stay in. You KNOW it's scarfed at that point and if you bring in an aerodactyle that's not mega evolved you'll speed tie if you're timid and they're jolly because turn order is made before mega evolution, but again, why would you stay in on things that kill you. Just because something kills it doesn't mean it's not going to be completely dominant and probably banned. Even if they double switch your position is reset, you and your opponent are at a stalemate, you obviously don't keep him in.

Something doesn't have to be bulky to be good, that's such a flawed concept, it's so fast that it will outspeed anything thats not 130+ or wearing a scarf, you are assuming gengar is going to stay in when that's so foolish to do so. The best part about Gengar is he traps, the reason Dugtrio and Gothettle were good last gen is because they trapped and killed threats, gengar can do that to just about every pokemon and probably kill 2 by himself.

You're also talking like we have to make sure he's balanced in Ubers, being that uber pokemon hit harder. Ubers is a banlist first and a tier second.

No offense but I think Sebasti is playing devil's advocate just to troll, and in this case to troll you. Maybe you should calm down a little and not let him/her aggravate you so much.

And I agree with you and the majority of players about Mega-Gengar's, it's more of a matter when he'll be banned and not a matter of "if" he'll be banned.

When the simulator is ready for playing I'll probably end up building a team focused around countering maga-gengar and other threats.

 

[SkaterTrainer]

No offense but I think Sebasti is playing devil's advocate just to troll, and in this case to troll you. Maybe you should calm down a little and not let him/her aggravate you so much.

And I agree with you and the majority of players about Mega-Gengar's, it's more of a matter when he'll be banned and not a matter of "if" he'll be banned.

When the simulator is ready for playing I'll probably end up building a team focused around countering maga-gengar and other threats.

I am calm, I just like to use fuck as an adjective a lot. I don't get aggravated from forum conversations, that's silly.

 

[Sebasti]

You're also talking like we have to make sure he's balanced in Ubers, being that uber pokemon hit harder. Ubers is a banlist first and a tier second.

I'm not trying to troll you, so lets get that out of the way first.

Now then, does ME shadow tag stop switches before they happen, or no? Because when you are sending him in to revenge kill something, its a bit necessary
for whatever you are trying to kill to still be there when you go to kill it.

That's the first thing I want to know, if it doesn't outprioritize switching then MG is a poor mans mega alakazam. Second, you say "Why would I send it in on something with EQ?" Well lets say you don't. You manage to kill something, and they send in something with EQ, or they see your gengar and send in something likely to resist it. (Lets say Aegislash). Are you going to give up that first turn to give them a chance to set-up, or are you going to risk the destiny bond in case they want to kill you outright? How do you know if its scarfed? etc etc. Mega Gengar wouldn't be any higher than LO Gengar because what it gains in slightly raised stats and shadow tag, it loses in its newly acquired weakness to one of the most common and powerful types and a lack of item, on top of taking up a mega slot that would be better spent on something like Mega Ala or Mega Dactyl, on TOP of having lesser stats than a similar pokemon whom is

If no one else, I'd nominate Mega Alakazam for Ubers before I nominate Mega Gengar for ubers. I can see myself tanking an attack from Mega Gengar and returning with a huge hit. I can't see myself outspeeding something that comes like... 3rd to Ninjask and Deoxys-S while having higher SP.A than most anything else AND having great type coverage to boot and a somewhat useful ability in Trace.

If you are sending in Gengar, it would have to be a post-mortem at best because it won't be taking any hits it doesn't outright resist on the spot. Then you choose to/not to mega evolve it. Whatever attack you used, you'd better hope it kills whatever you are hitting because that pokemon will chew through your lack of bulk for breakfast. But lets give the revenge kill scenario a go, lets say you just swapped into something like Bulk-Up Conkeldurr. That thing is pretty beefy, and to cover for levitate it tosses out like... Stone Edge. If your shadow ball/Focus Blast/Sludge bomb doesn't kill it outright, Gengar isn't living the hit. Mega Gengar won't either, honestly. But lets say you Mega Evolve and kill it. Or lets say you don't and by some grace of Arceus kill it.
Go, Alakazam/Scarfed Terrakion/Aerodactyl/etc. Lord forbid they bring a juggernaut like Alakazam because that's just the end of the road. They throw out ME Psychic, EQ, Pretty much anything. Destiny Bond isn't going to save you when you are the slower pokemon, and switching will basically remove the "I have the choice to mega evolve" option. Does Mega Gengar have a niche? Sure. You can swap him out as long as ME Tag doesn't prioritize, blah blah. But is he uber tier? I wouldn't think so, no, on account of his entire kit and idea only works if you happen to be on the faster side. He is, in all means, a glass cannon. He is basically a faster Boomburst specs Exploud. If you aren't the faster mon, you don't get to keep going on. Its plain and simple. Revenge killer? He gets his job done better by most of the set in ubers, and looking at how potent megakazam is turning up as, it'd be tough to run him since he is just outright outclassed.

Like there are tons of pokemon that, given the chance to use their quirks, they can be phenomenal. If you manage to pass a +4/+2 from a ninjask onto something like Guts Façade Ursaring, yeah you'd be hard pressed to find anything to tank that hit. If you opponent lacks anything to check a Mega Gengar, yeah you'll probably sweep for free. But the point is, is Mega Gengar broken/OP enough to be cast out into Ubers tier? I personally don't think so. After all, why run Mega Gengar when you can just run MegaZam? Faster, stronger, only slightly less physically tanky (I misread the stats, Gengar has 65/80/95, still not stellar) has decent type coverage, huge breaking power, a great ability, far less weaknesses, lots more play potential outside of that first evolution point...

I personally don't see Mega Gengar being any more threatening than conventional LO Gengar. Ubers should be reserved for things that are nearly impossible to check at that point in time. Will ME Gengar never make it to ubers? He might, but for now he's nowhere near the level of SalaDance, classic mewtwo, or the like. Theres too much time left to see what kind of counter play develops, and Mega Gengar may just end up becoming the new Spiritomb. Regarded so highly early in the games life, but then it turns out no weaknesses isn't as glamourous as one might've previously thought.

Just my opinion though, I'd be far more afraid of MegaZam than I could find myself being of MegaGar

 

[kniteowl]

I'm not trying to troll you, so lets get that out of the way first.

Now then, does ME shadow tag stop switches before they happen, or no? Because when you are sending him in to revenge kill something, its a bit necessary
for whatever you are trying to kill to still be there when you go to kill it.

That's the first thing I want to know, if it doesn't outprioritize switching then MG is a poor mans mega alakazam. Second, you say "Why would I send it in on something with EQ?" Well lets say you don't. You manage to kill something, and they send in something with EQ, or they see your gengar and send in something likely to resist it. (Lets say Aegislash). Are you going to give up that first turn to give them a chance to set-up, or are you going to risk the destiny bond in case they want to kill you outright? How do you know if its scarfed? etc etc. Mega Gengar wouldn't be any higher than LO Gengar because what it gains in slightly raised stats and shadow tag, it loses in its newly acquired weakness to one of the most common and powerful types and a lack of item, on top of taking up a mega slot that would be better spent on something like Mega Ala or Mega Dactyl, on TOP of having lesser stats than a similar pokemon whom is

I thought the main point of using Destiny bond on M-gengar was to punish pursuit users like Tyranitar, because M-gengar can't switch out on them. If M-Gengar is gonna die regardless, might as well take T-tar down with him. Unless T-tar gets lucky and not OHKO M-Gengar and M-Gengar dies by Sandstorm.

As for the Aegislash example, why would M-gengar ever use Destiny bond on him, when Shadow sneak hits first before Destiny Bond. M-gengar would be KO-ed before he could use Destiny Bond. A wise player would switch out if they expect a attack or stay in and smack it with a super effective Shadow Ball (steel no longer resist ghost) if they expect Aegislash to set up with swords dance.

 

[bwburke94]

It's still possible to switch on the turn Gengar mega-evolves.

 

[AOPSUser]

I'm not trying to troll you, so lets get that out of the way first.

Now then, does ME shadow tag stop switches before they happen, or no? Because when you are sending him in to revenge kill something, its a bit necessary
for whatever you are trying to kill to still be there when you go to kill it.

That's the first thing I want to know, if it doesn't outprioritize switching then MG is a poor mans mega alakazam. Second, you say "Why would I send it in on something with EQ?" Well lets say you don't. You manage to kill something, and they send in something with EQ, or they see your gengar and send in something likely to resist it. (Lets say Aegislash). Are you going to give up that first turn to give them a chance to set-up, or are you going to risk the destiny bond in case they want to kill you outright? How do you know if its scarfed? etc etc. Mega Gengar wouldn't be any higher than LO Gengar because what it gains in slightly raised stats and shadow tag, it loses in its newly acquired weakness to one of the most common and powerful types and a lack of item, on top of taking up a mega slot that would be better spent on something like Mega Ala or Mega Dactyl, on TOP of having lesser stats than a similar pokemon whom is

If no one else, I'd nominate Mega Alakazam for Ubers before I nominate Mega Gengar for ubers. I can see myself tanking an attack from Mega Gengar and returning with a huge hit. I can't see myself outspeeding something that comes like... 3rd to Ninjask and Deoxys-S while having higher SP.A than most anything else AND having great type coverage to boot and a somewhat useful ability in Trace.

If you are sending in Gengar, it would have to be a post-mortem at best because it won't be taking any hits it doesn't outright resist on the spot. Then you choose to/not to mega evolve it. Whatever attack you used, you'd better hope it kills whatever you are hitting because that pokemon will chew through your lack of bulk for breakfast. But lets give the revenge kill scenario a go, lets say you just swapped into something like Bulk-Up Conkeldurr. That thing is pretty beefy, and to cover for levitate it tosses out like... Stone Edge. If your shadow ball/Focus Blast/Sludge bomb doesn't kill it outright, Gengar isn't living the hit. Mega Gengar won't either, honestly. But lets say you Mega Evolve and kill it. Or lets say you don't and by some grace of Arceus kill it.
Go, Alakazam/Scarfed Terrakion/Aerodactyl/etc. Lord forbid they bring a juggernaut like Alakazam because that's just the end of the road. They throw out ME Psychic, EQ, Pretty much anything. Destiny Bond isn't going to save you when you are the slower pokemon, and switching will basically remove the "I have the choice to mega evolve" option. Does Mega Gengar have a niche? Sure. You can swap him out as long as ME Tag doesn't prioritize, blah blah. But is he uber tier? I wouldn't think so, no, on account of his entire kit and idea only works if you happen to be on the faster side. He is, in all means, a glass cannon. He is basically a faster Boomburst specs Exploud. If you aren't the faster mon, you don't get to keep going on. Its plain and simple. Revenge killer? He gets his job done better by most of the set in ubers, and looking at how potent megakazam is turning up as, it'd be tough to run him since he is just outright outclassed.

Like there are tons of pokemon that, given the chance to use their quirks, they can be phenomenal. If you manage to pass a +4/+2 from a ninjask onto something like Guts Façade Ursaring, yeah you'd be hard pressed to find anything to tank that hit. If you opponent lacks anything to check a Mega Gengar, yeah you'll probably sweep for free. But the point is, is Mega Gengar broken/OP enough to be cast out into Ubers tier? I personally don't think so. After all, why run Mega Gengar when you can just run MegaZam? Faster, stronger, only slightly less physically tanky (I misread the stats, Gengar has 65/80/95, still not stellar) has decent type coverage, huge breaking power, a great ability, far less weaknesses, lots more play potential outside of that first evolution point...

I personally don't see Mega Gengar being any more threatening than conventional LO Gengar. Ubers should be reserved for things that are nearly impossible to check at that point in time. Will ME Gengar never make it to ubers? He might, but for now he's nowhere near the level of SalaDance, classic mewtwo, or the like. Theres too much time left to see what kind of counter play develops, and Mega Gengar may just end up becoming the new Spiritomb. Regarded so highly early in the games life, but then it turns out no weaknesses isn't as glamourous as one might've previously thought.

Just my opinion though, I'd be far more afraid of MegaZam than I could find myself being of MegaGar

I really hope you're joking about MegaZam. It dies twice as fast as normal Alakazam (no Sash), has marginally more power than normal LO Alakazam, which doesn't make a difference thanks to Magic Guard. Since it loses Magic Guard, MegaZam basically is asking for Scizor to come in, and if Scizor continues to be in 20% of teams, that's not a good number of games you are practically down one mon in. Also it takes about 50% from Breloom's Mach Punch, haha. I'd rather use Mega Heracross, for goodness sakes. And we all know how good that thing is...

If you ever played Dream World OU way back, you should know how bad Shadow Tag Chandelure was. It killed all Choiced Fighting and Normal-typed attacks, as if you used one, the opponent could switch in Chandy and get a Substitute and 6 Calm Minds up. It also killed Stall for a similar reason-when I used it, it beat every version of Blissey and Chansey out there. Without Taunt.

Gengar can come in on a slower Pokemon or a wall. From there, it threatens to use Shadow Tag to remove said Pokemon, so they will be forced to switch to a check. This lets you get a sub up, and if you are Mega, to Mega Evolve while doing so. The free sub can be huge for normal LO Gar, or normal/Mega Sub+Disable Gar. Once you get your Sub, you can do whatever you want. Later, Mega Gengar can come in on anything slower and in KO range (which is about 40% of OU when at full health, if you've taken damage then you're toast), and just kill it. Then, if the opponent sends in a Pursuiter, either Destiny Bond or Sub (to scout for Pursuit-not all TTar run it), or just attack. If you can switch, even better, as you get to come in and repeat this routine later.

SubDisable Mega Gengar does its job better than normal Gengar, as instead of just forcing a switch, it forces the opponent to Struggle every other turn, effectively killing them, if you don't feel like attacking to do that instead. SubSplit works better as it's faster and if you switch in on Blissey then said Blissey can't switch. Perish Song is an option to get rid of annoying walls like the pink blobs, although you can just keep smacking them, since they can't do anything to you in return.

This leaves lures as your best hope for getting rid of Gengar. And honestly, running something really niche like Sucker Punch Latios just to beat Mega Gengar is a bit much. Mega Gengar will probably be too good for OU, since it is not only very powerful, but it makes normal Gengar more potent as well.