I was REFERING to Assault Vest Tyranitar.
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Other The Lack of Power Creep in Gen 6
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Bah, I can't do calcs right now, so I don't have much to say to that. Really, I just want people to stop assuming some Mega's are going to be Uber and wait until we can properly test them first, which is how I got on the whole tirade about Mega Gengar.
The point I have here about Mega Gengar is that what testing we have done has proven he's a right pain in the ass to deal with, and he can only be revenge killed by really fast stuff (Mega Alakazam) or priority. Shadow Tag on something that strong is HUGE. I mean, Dugtrio has an inferior trapping ability, miserable power, and he still pulled OU as far as LAST GEN!
Yes, I understand why Mega Gengar is so strong. I knew from the moment it was revealed it was going to be extremely dangerous. But, in my opinion, we don't know enough about the new games and what's been added and what's been changed to make a proper judgement on any of these new Mega's. Once we know more, and it has been tested enough, then I'll be fine with it getting banned. But banning it right from the start is the wrong choice.
I don't see how mega Alakazam can revenge it unless its using Protect to mega evolve and outspeed it.
It has to be pre-evolved. If you revenge with an already Mevolved Alakazam, it can pull it off.
Mega evolutions are in a weird spot. Other than gengar, each one actually has to have some tradeoff for not carrying an item, and all of them lack versatility because of this too. Not having an item means that they will never be carrying leftovers, they'll never have resist berries, they'll never be able to benefit from Balloon, They'll never outspeed or overpower anything they normally couldn't KO with their base stats thanks to not having a choice item...they are all in all quite predictable as a trade off for massive raw stat power, and it will simply come down to recognising counters for specific mega threats compared to their non-mega life orb or leftovers weilding counterparts.
gengar is the only mega who has a good chance of being uber.
with the advent of sticky web, speed boost blaziken means there are a bunch of sticky web immune pokemon who can counter him now.
mega scizor remains the same as a banded scizor.
even megagengar i thnk only makes uber because of this moveset and not being affected by sticky web, not because of any new attacking power
perish song
sub
protect
taunt/shadowball/disable
anytime you switch in safely with gengar. megaevolve with gengar and perish song the same turn. shadow tag kicks in. protect, then sub with 130 speed, then protect again. taunt or disable to fight phazers, shadowball to kill shadow tag immune ghosts.
with the advent of sticky web, speed boost blaziken means there are a bunch of sticky web immune pokemon who can counter him now.
mega scizor remains the same as a banded scizor.
even megagengar i thnk only makes uber because of this moveset and not being affected by sticky web, not because of any new attacking power
perish song
sub
protect
taunt/shadowball/disable
anytime you switch in safely with gengar. megaevolve with gengar and perish song the same turn. shadow tag kicks in. protect, then sub with 130 speed, then protect again. taunt or disable to fight phazers, shadowball to kill shadow tag immune ghosts.
Meggengar doesn't have any form of recovery besides perhaps pain split.
You don't need it, because the real use of MGengar is that he can revenge kill anything that isn't ghost.
Oh, come on. Everything you're saying here applies equally well to Dugtrio in Advance.
That's true, I guess, but unlike Advanced Dugtrio it has actual attacking power outside of its STABs.
It's worth remembering Mega Gengar's one key disadvantage compared to all other trappers: it can't trap with its first turn on the field. This gives its foe one chance to find something to do about it, which can easily make all the difference.
Fair enough, but then you have to spend the rest of the game thinking "what happens if Mega Gengar switches in?"
The point of this thread was more geared towards the discussion of introducing a metagame that can focus on sorting out all of the pending issues (the ones still from gen 5) rather than which Megas should be banned, that's why I stated Purgatory rather than Ubers for the "all megas should be " statement. It's going to be much easier to develop a healthy meta game that way, and a much more isolated test on each Mega will be easier then.
The problem is, your premise was drastically and fatally flawed. No one's going to work with you on a premise that throws away key aspects of tiering philosophy.
As for the "issues" from Gen 5? Lack of permanent weather means who knows what those will look like now.
why would they, they are not real evo's and do not really count as different pokemon.
I'm very glad for the lack of power creep, but I do wish that Gen VI would have some more impact on the metagame. Well, perhaps 'impact on the metagame' is the wrong term. It feels like there isn't much beyond balance tweaks and 2 or 3 Pokemon/Evolutions who will probably end up Uber.
On one hand, we have nice balance changes, like the weather nerf, Fairy types, the weather nerf, the Steel nerf, the weather nerf, the decrease of base powers for some special moves, will-o-wisp buff to balance out the specal moves nerf, and - my favorite - the weather nerf.
On the other hand, some things have just gotten a little bit out of control. Mega Blaziken is basically a better version of something that was already Uber material, and the lack of power creep means it should probably stay where it is. Mega Gengar is another ridiculous thing, since Shadow Tag is just absurd. Hitting almost as hard as LO Gengar with more speed and enough bulk to not die to priority moves is simply way too good.
Both of these threats have their counters, of course, but the problem is that these counters are effectively the ONLY way to deal with these Pokemon, or are so niche that these Pokemon are the only reason you would use them in the first place. It would be a case of them over-centralizing the metagame. Teams will be forced to pack at least one Pursuit trapper to even hope of dealing with Mega Gengar (there's no many that can really deal with him, to be honest), and every team will also need something like Talonflame/Gliscor/Jellicent to deal with Blaziken. It's not that they don't have counters, just that if they are not successfully countered, they are nearly unstoppable. But I digress. Back on topic.
Aside from those two, Gen VI doesn't really have any new Pokemon that make an impact. Aegislash could do some incredible work, but I can see that Pokemon potentially getting chained into Ubers, where it would probably still do well. Either way, aside from Aegislash, the only Pokemon I see having a real impact is Mega Lucario. A couple of other Megas like TTar, Scizor and Garchomp will probably have a little time in the spotlight but are outclassed in many cases by their non-Mega forms. Mega Gardevoir and Mega Charizard X look useful, but Gardevoir has to deal with some rather weird stat distribution, and Charizard is still crippled by Stealth Rocks if he doesn't evolve early (although even that only mitigates the problem).
I like the balance tweaks, but as far as raw content goes, I feel like Gen 6 was more like Gen 5.5. If Mega Blaziken, Mega Gengar, and Aegislash don't end up Uber, that's a different story, but not THAT much of a different story.
On one hand, we have nice balance changes, like the weather nerf, Fairy types, the weather nerf, the Steel nerf, the weather nerf, the decrease of base powers for some special moves, will-o-wisp buff to balance out the specal moves nerf, and - my favorite - the weather nerf.
On the other hand, some things have just gotten a little bit out of control. Mega Blaziken is basically a better version of something that was already Uber material, and the lack of power creep means it should probably stay where it is. Mega Gengar is another ridiculous thing, since Shadow Tag is just absurd. Hitting almost as hard as LO Gengar with more speed and enough bulk to not die to priority moves is simply way too good.
Both of these threats have their counters, of course, but the problem is that these counters are effectively the ONLY way to deal with these Pokemon, or are so niche that these Pokemon are the only reason you would use them in the first place. It would be a case of them over-centralizing the metagame. Teams will be forced to pack at least one Pursuit trapper to even hope of dealing with Mega Gengar (there's no many that can really deal with him, to be honest), and every team will also need something like Talonflame/Gliscor/Jellicent to deal with Blaziken. It's not that they don't have counters, just that if they are not successfully countered, they are nearly unstoppable. But I digress. Back on topic.
Aside from those two, Gen VI doesn't really have any new Pokemon that make an impact. Aegislash could do some incredible work, but I can see that Pokemon potentially getting chained into Ubers, where it would probably still do well. Either way, aside from Aegislash, the only Pokemon I see having a real impact is Mega Lucario. A couple of other Megas like TTar, Scizor and Garchomp will probably have a little time in the spotlight but are outclassed in many cases by their non-Mega forms. Mega Gardevoir and Mega Charizard X look useful, but Gardevoir has to deal with some rather weird stat distribution, and Charizard is still crippled by Stealth Rocks if he doesn't evolve early (although even that only mitigates the problem).
I like the balance tweaks, but as far as raw content goes, I feel like Gen 6 was more like Gen 5.5. If Mega Blaziken, Mega Gengar, and Aegislash don't end up Uber, that's a different story, but not THAT much of a different story.
i'm gonna ko a mega gengar with a focus sash diggersby.
Why does Mega Alakazam already have to be Mega-Evolved, when we know Mega-Evolution does not take a turn?
I can pretty much sum up the whole argument with Megas like this.
No items, no win. Everyone will be without their precious Life Orb or Choice Scarf that they desperately need. The few pokemon that are better without the items in the Mega Evolution are either too outclassed in their role by other surrounding pokemon (Mega Banette) or too overpower that they are Ubers material (Mega Blaziken).
No items, no win. Everyone will be without their precious Life Orb or Choice Scarf that they desperately need. The few pokemon that are better without the items in the Mega Evolution are either too outclassed in their role by other surrounding pokemon (Mega Banette) or too overpower that they are Ubers material (Mega Blaziken).
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