NOC The Mafia Invitational Redux Game Thread - GAME OVER

[Asek]

LightWolf responding to you now

 

[Asek]

Starring:

Asek as Not Asek

#548 Where is asek and what have you done to him? Sure you got the gifs, but instead of nitpicking and trying to support your stance on people this is full of fluff. A pure downgrade from last game. And yes I know I tried to push you for nitpicking last game and now doing it for the reverse, but that is what happens when I dig in that time and when I dig at the same spots here I'm not seeing the same. #556 You can't counter Gas with Gas! Again your points are way too surface level or non-existent, rather than looking for the smallest details. The macro of knights and proph is probably the weakest argument, as the only way those two are scum together is if they decided to pretend to buddy as hard as possible to make people think the opposite.(after this I learned Proph flipped) #594 You have presented every part of your reads the same, and just because you made vomit noises does not mean you did not feel it was important to call out the shit scum claiming. You literally admit to fluffing. #738 Why call out only proph when others(yeti) were the originators of this theory? Why is only proph guilty over it? #754 I'm upgrading my asek imposter read to V2, we sure asek was actually playing last game when we lynched knights?(my knights reasonings are directly based on his last game and my expectations on how he would change them if he was either alignment) #762 I mean I am glad it's not me, but chances are if he is ignoring the thread it's because he isn't playing. This is a pointless lynch. #872

#890 Asek best scumbuddy, except he is still disassociating from pushes on non idlers... #1,212 Astute observation, counter asek? #1,274 What are you defending yourself against here the last minutes of the day?

Conclusion: He may post gifs, but this is not the same asek I was gonna shoot with as vig last game. He had an extremely nitpicky style, yet here his comments seem surface level and isn't digging deep into anyone. Feels like he coasted by near the end of the day too. Any reason for my different reading of you compared to last game? Please locate my big read post from last game, and try to point out if I'm inconsistent with my reads between the two Asek, till then I would lynch this imposter today.

your question r.e 734 - yeti and whomever else just presented walrein as scummy for idling, whereas prophylaxis tried to angleshoot that the sub was in fact the scummy part of the slot. i dont think anyone else tried to read that slot off that angle? i mean you can try find evidence to the contraire but my recollection of it was that proph was the first person to try shade there on that angle

1212 i was pretty annoyed by that point because id been pushing hitmonleet for a while at that point and nobody seemed willing to engage with it. i didnt really have the motivation to post much more then i did especially considering it seemed like there werent enough of the people with votes on prophylaxis there to switch over to hitmonleet with texas refusing to swtich anyway. iirc i was posting whilst doing other things at that point anyway

can you explain how its defending myself at 1274? it was more of a dig that texas was more interested in trying to l-1 proph / myself rather thn casing / wanting people to come to their own conclusions leading me to think both those wagons were bad and had scum lurking on, as such me trying to get people onto hitmonleet > proph

 

[Asek]

yeah Asek d3 not looking good, no substance whatsoever. That one "retards" post felt like it wouldn't come naturally from scumAsek but can't give that slot a pass today.
Lightwolf's tone, apologetic behavior and way too wide lynch pool are concerning but I don't really know what to look for here
looking at AG/DLE now but I'll probably be voting one of AG/asek
vote AG

'lol'

 

[Asek]

LightWolf what other questions did u have

 

[Asek]

yeti are you seriously trying to use nks as a reason to sr me and trying to cause a 'mislynch' on leet

the scum team itg has to mason hunt to prevent themselves from being mechanically locked out in an endgame situation. this in of itself influences the nk descision to being focused on finding the masons over anything else

not only this but its like you only consider the kills from how they would affect scum!hitmonleet and ignore that he has 2 teammates? pretty sure the scum kills wouldnt revolve around preserving hitmonleet over mason hunting / protecting other scums positions? not to mention nearly all nk analysis is just pure wine anyway. dont know why ur seriously reading into this

Scum on this are ag and 1 of moody or dle

Asek is the third and he was off wagon going omg the dude you're lynching is town you idiots both days so he both looks right, good, and uninvolved

Texas and hawkie did a lot of the work for him rip

this is stupid for other reasons

i helped progress the proph wagon and srd them for most of the day. it was only later i tried to push seriously onto hitmonleet as a counter wagon which is literally the exact same situation you were in... so why is this scummy???

yesterday i was positive i could have pushed another wagon (read:leet) if some idiots didnt hammer whilst i was sleeping. unless you think i could have accounted for that? lol

 

[LightWolf]

your question r.e 734 - yeti and whomever else just presented walrein as scummy for idling, whereas prophylaxis tried to angleshoot that the sub was in fact the scummy part of the slot. i dont think anyone else tried to read that slot off that angle? i mean you can try find evidence to the contraire but my recollection of it was that proph was the first person to try shade there on that angle

1212 i was pretty annoyed by that point because id been pushing hitmonleet for a while at that point and nobody seemed willing to engage with it. i didnt really have the motivation to post much more then i did especially considering it seemed like there werent enough of the people with votes on prophylaxis there to switch over to hitmonleet with texas refusing to swtich anyway. iirc i was posting whilst doing other things at that point anyway

can you explain how its defending myself at 1274? it was more of a dig that texas was more interested in trying to l-1 proph / myself rather thn casing / wanting people to come to their own conclusions leading me to think both those wagons were bad and had scum lurking on, as such me trying to get people onto hitmonleet > proph

Firstly, Yeti was most definitely the originator of the Walrein subbed because he pulled scum twice and with no yeti on his team he just lost interest and subbed when he couldnt keep up. But your answer was satisfactory.

Next, the problem is exactly that you laid the groundwork for the hitmomleet, yet didn't actively pursue it, rather you waited for the engagement you never got, which and you surely agree, creates the image of you not really seeming to care to prevent the proph lynch despite being for a different one. This is compounded on by the next point:

Lastly, you bothered to throw shade at texas at a quite pointless moment instead of engaging people on your prefered lynch. Now why I called it a defense is because you are addressing a something texas did that would put you on the chopping block, by discrediting him for making that statement in the first place. The thing is, that was completely irrelevant at that point, and bringing it up again only served to get the proph lynch through as it'd only lead to arguments that are unrelated to it. It was neither the time and place for it and I dont see why youd bring it up.

As for my questions, please address my perceived difference in style from last game that I am seeing by comparing my big wall post of last game to this game's, and attempt to explain the differences I note.

Also feel free to address any of my other comments on posts you made besides the above 3, I suggest starting with the eurobeat.

 

[LightWolf]

I will now sleep for like an hour before work, be back in like 2-3. Hitmon is dead to me if he doesn't address my shit.

So additional asek question, what you think of a LoghtWolf lynch?

 

[Yeti]

ive said why i think moody is more likely town

 

[Asek]

Firstly, Yeti was most definitely the originator of the Walrein subbed because he pulled scum twice and with no yeti on his team he just lost interest and subbed when he couldnt keep up. But your answer was satisfactory.

Next, the problem is exactly that you laid the groundwork for the hitmomleet, yet didn't actively pursue it, rather you waited for the engagement you never got, which and you surely agree, creates the image of you not really seeming to care to prevent the proph lynch despite being for a different one. This is compounded on by the next point:

Lastly, you bothered to throw shade at texas at a quite pointless moment instead of engaging people on your prefered lynch. Now why I called it a defense is because you are addressing a something texas did that would put you on the chopping block, by discrediting him for making that statement in the first place. The thing is, that was completely irrelevant at that point, and bringing it up again only served to get the proph lynch through as it'd only lead to arguments that are unrelated to it. It was neither the time and place for it and I dont see why youd bring it up.

As for my questions, please address my perceived difference in style from last game that I am seeing by comparing my big wall post of last game to this game's, and attempt to explain the differences I note.

Also feel free to address any of my other comments on posts you made besides the above 3, I suggest starting with the eurobeat.

i was kind of resigned to prophylaxis being lynched by the time i woke up for that EoD... i was only there for the last hour and in all honesty its exhausting when you have 2 serious tunnellers and people just hiding by following them and not considering the game outside of the tunneled slot. i feel like even if i had of gone all out the fact that people didnt seem to care / want to read into the hitmonleet slot over a group tunnel of proph would have made it extremely difficult to force a switch with the time i had left and the people who were actually there hence why i come across as not having a strong sense of agency to you

i brang that up more in the context that texas was using that basis to push prophylaxis rather then my self (i never really caught on but proph did). do you really interpret it as me defening myself at that point? i think it was really unlikely a mass switchover to myself was going to happen at that point so im wondering why you interpret it as me defening myself rather than attacking the poor reasons for a lot of people hopping on the prophylaxis wagon, as the leet switchover from proph was still a slight possibility

stylistic differances uh i dont really know. i dont think i have a concret meta in general, its rather fluid depending on how i feel(if you cre to read my previous games i think youll notice i adopt quite differant approaches in most of them) ive admitted previously in this thread that im very busy + a lot less motivated since i put in a tonne of effort into g1 to make a big effort towards this one so that might have a factor in it. altho i do find it amusing that you were going to vig me in the last game for my style there.

I will now sleep for like an hour before work, be back in like 2-3. Hitmon is dead to me if he doesn't address my shit.

So additional asek question, what you think of a LoghtWolf lynch?

i wouldnt lynch your slot today predominatly because i want leet lynched. moody is an outsider i would wagon and i guess i need to read ags posts. but strongly prefer hitmoleet lynch. i need to read furhter into your wallposts as i only really read the parts that related to me

 

[Asek]

anyway hitmonleet is scum and i dont know why people are so reluctant to vote here. when i pushed onto them day 1 for having no progress on their reads and just being complacent sheeping and their retarded eod post their response to me was instead of engaging with my argument to turn around and.... tr me? they didnt respond to any point and basically handwaved it and tried to tr me to get me off them. they are staying off and not really engaging with main wagons and just flirting around the thread posting nothings whilst people defend them for whatever reason. they show the exact same unwillingness to engage with points adressed against them as they did to me with lightwolf and i think theyre just scum who doest have anything to do under pressure other than say 'durrr you make same mistake as 'insert mafia game where leet got mislynched'. theres no way this wagon gets the resistance / reluctance to vote it does over 2 consecutive days without scum influence here as well considering hitmonleets posts so far

vote hitmonleet

 

[LightWolf]

i was kind of resigned to prophylaxis being lynched by the time i woke up for that EoD... i was only there for the last hour and in all honesty its exhausting when you have 2 serious tunnellers and people just hiding by following them and not considering the game outside of the tunneled slot. i feel like even if i had of gone all out the fact that people didnt seem to care / want to read into the hitmonleet slot over a group tunnel of proph would have made it extremely difficult to force a switch with the time i had left and the people who were actually there hence why i come across as not having a strong sense of agency to you

i brang that up more in the context that texas was using that basis to push prophylaxis rather then my self (i never really caught on but proph did). do you really interpret it as me defening myself at that point? i think it was really unlikely a mass switchover to myself was going to happen at that point so im wondering why you interpret it as me defening myself rather than attacking the poor reasons for a lot of people hopping on the prophylaxis wagon, as the leet switchover from proph was still a slight possibility

stylistic differances uh i dont really know. i dont think i have a concret meta in general, its rather fluid depending on how i feel(if you cre to read my previous games i think youll notice i adopt quite differant approaches in most of them) ive admitted previously in this thread that im very busy + a lot less motivated since i put in a tonne of effort into g1 to make a big effort towards this one so that might have a factor in it. altho i do find it amusing that you were going to vig me in the last game for my style there.

i wouldnt lynch your slot today predominatly because i want leet lynched. moody is an outsider i would wagon and i guess i need to read ags posts. but strongly prefer hitmoleet lynch. i need to read furhter into your wallposts as i only really read the parts that related to me

You are a bit too caught up on the defense thing, I merely contextualise an attempt at discrediting texas through bringing to attention him trying to get both of you to -1 an inherently defensive action, just as I consider my reply to hitmonleet defensive after his vote on me, despite it being a continuation of my previous push on him. The point was of the timing, which I still dont agree with but can see your argument for it.

On the other hand your answer to the stylistical differences is not the one I would accept. On the micro level I can see case by case differences happening naturally, but outside a conscious effort your overall style shouldn't shift this much, and I'm not talking lower contribution numbers. If you had said you made a conscious effort after misidentifying KoC early on last game I could have swallowed it, but otherwise I have to chalk it up to your unwillingness to dig in as much which I can only justify with a scum mentality, since even with that hitmon post you are far more surface level on your suspicions, despite clearly pushing it quite a bit.

I'd like to bring everyone's attention to asek's post #548 this game and asek's post #388 last game. These are the posts that were the base of both of my asek reads and I'd like everyone's input on it.

 

[LightWolf]

ive said why i think moody is more likely town

Please link or quote the post, am lazy and searching for moody mentioned by yeti will yield too many varied results for me to identify the correct one, and I am on phone and lazy.

 

[LightWolf]

Hitmonleet Don't ya think I've forgotten about you! Read or die!

 

[Yeti]

i think he voted ms for a joke reason without realizing ms was at l-1 and if he was scm and constantly playing the omg im catching up (which he puts content in when he is here, not much but some opinion) he wouldn't make a spectacle of himself by hammering early

 

[LightWolf]

i think he voted ms for a joke reason without realizing ms was at l-1 and if he was scm and constantly playing the omg im catching up (which he puts content in when he is here, not much but some opinion) he wouldn't make a spectacle of himself by hammering early

That reasoning doesn't hold up because you can be behind as either faction, and while doing or faking a catch up you can accidentally end up hammering because you simply were unaware it was L-1 already. Nothing about him hammering proves to be alignment indicative. As long as he claims it was unintentional it can be unintentional as either side.

 

[Hitmonleet]

Hitmonleet Don't ya think I've forgotten about you! Read or die!

Have read: Will post a bit, but then I have to get to work.

Also screw you Asek, I'm pretty sure death tunneling is Hawkie's shtick, not yours. Unvote Vote Asek.

 

[Hitmonleet]

Asek from the pool, if asek is town I'd look at Hitmon, as both of them have the previously explained uncannuy ability to state at the end of previous days that the person getting mislynched is a mislynch. Oh sure limtied sample size so a town can easily pull it off too, but specifically a scum WANTS to pull it off and one at least will pull it off. And if isn't asek, it's gotta be Hitmon, though day 2 was so short some people didn't comment at all on the lynch in any meaningful capacity. If neither is scum I'd look at Yeti, but we can't mislynch twice.

If Asek does flip scum, then DLE or AG(yeah cop out answer I know). I'd not want to lock myself into either from that pool, for outside of the pool I'd much rather look at Moody, but AG and DLE I have qualms with day 2, that will greatly be contextualised by the finishing of day 3. I'd put Knights into that group as well, though that's mostly in that day 2 was too short for me to clear up if my Knights suspicions from day 1 were reasonable or just an after effect of reading too much into last game. Or the reverse and not reading into him enough after.

I disagree about the whole, yknow, "lynching me" bit, but if Asek isn't scum I'll be utterly amazed. Would personally like to hear a bit more on your thoughts on Knights after Asek flips scum.

What was unexpected if you literally even in the present claim you defended Proph? You never really claimed Hawkie was scum either.

This is a pointless to pressure a sub for being a sub for seconds. This is the least productive thing to start a day with.

Then again based on this it is exactly what town would do.

Yeah okay FH is looking better than day 1's coasting already. Disagree that the Asek Hitmon relation being scumbuddies, asek had plenty option beyond offering token support to the hitmon lynch, such as supporting the Hitmon vote on me if they were buddies. Any push towards a Hitmon lynch however insignificant could easily have steered the lynch to hitmon if proph picked up his pants he dropped late into the day.

I find the fact that of the two ISOs he did, one being a waste of space the other on MS he instantly stumbles into someone to vote. Spooky coincidence indeed. I feel like it's far more natural to get a feel for the game first, instead of instantly voting your first ISO when you don't understand the context of it all. Feels less like looking at what people did and more looking for someone to vote.

Is this REALLY the thing you take away from MS voting you? Haha omgus haha? There is proph brushing off Hawkie's vote and then there is ignoring the guy you are voting and going to do something else entirely, as great as it is to catch up.

I mean thank you, but god I can already see how he is gonna die... The reasoning literally boils down to Empoof ditched us therefore scum.

That is the relevant bit of information you wish to chime in with? This feels like a fun fact to post so people don't start asking why you ain't taking part in a discussion centered around your current vote.

I still don't get how my prod dodging is such a serious offense that is alignment indicative when all that happened is I get on smogon, I see alerts, I see the alerts are for the game, I go to the thread and see it's 23 pages long, I make a post after checking when the game actually started, which was like a day and a half prior to me noticing it did start, and start my catchup. The only way my idling would be scummy is if you are arguing that I went invisible for those 1.5 days or inentionally avoided the thread to not post and never be seen viewing it(when if anyone had checked my last time online they'd have seen I haven't been on smogon since the game officially started) to then fake a post I noticed the thread to fake catching up, only to post my announcement I finished catch up and will post day 2, only 1 hour after day 2 got hammered early. Yet people are no accusing me of wearing my Matrix pants, yet I'm also a scum who is afraid of posting. Point is, you guys post in the middle of the night for me, I wake up to the thread having grown like 10 pages usually, and I had two workdays where I went sleeping the second I got home because I had Raid nights at mightnight the first day and was dead tired the second day, then I got lazy because I had given up on catching up day 1, and then day 2 got killed after I wrote a crap of catchup notes on my damn phone during work, get home inspired to make a stupid movie poster and then go to sleep because I was tired again and planed to wake up 3 hours before work to get in the thread, combine my notes in a post and post it while also making a realistic looking copyright claim to FH which I had to scrap when I ended up posting the thing at the start of day 3. Point of point is, no one can list a reasonable reason to suspect me on my idling, beyond the fact I feel like a piece of crap for it, then maybe instead of lynching me pressure me or try and ask me stuff you want to hear my opinion on I haven't stated and form your opinion based on that, because right now people are taking the very easy way out by lumping me into their poes(spit on that) and hey they have 3 or 4 people with me, scum MUST be there the rest are def not being given a pass by me and could NEVER be scum! Village has been collectively wrong for 2 lynches, and plenty people who did not agree with the mislynches suspected the major pushers of some of them, who then ended up flipping town too. Point is this is the time to reevaluate instead of deciding on a box to pull random names from. Anyone who wants to push me I expect to disect the little I said, and same for pushing anyone else, so people can't bullshit their

In contrast to last game where he was scum and claimed to be unable to show for deadline but then still did so. You were scum with him yet show little need to base assumptions on his previous game or the insight into his scum thinking he may have shared with you during game 1. The only real point you made is echo someone when they claimed MS likes to reasonless tunnel by mentioning Josh(which wasn't a reasonless tunnel, he had brought up some meta analysis to support his claim, which just wasn't applicable for the vast majority).


Oh god this is how it all ended? Day 2 was completely wasted on an event that was completely NAI, because no scum would attempt this for real but voting while catching up is either... This is such a sad fucking waste.

This vote is much more suspicious, what with no reason given l-1 with no indication DLE was unaware of that fact. L-1 is pointless here and only invites accidental hammers, especially when no points are raised to make an additional argument for the suspicion of the target of the vote.



Well day 2 was shite. FH looks better after some actual effort I could actually perceive rather than the coasting of day 1.
I don't quite like Yeti's lack of using the last game to shed insight into MS, and rather just memey bloby back and forths which made sure MS was never gonna get serious about it. With Walrein day 1 she did multiple times refer to last game to contextualize the lynch, but here it was lacking in that department, though I can't really see how that makes sense, beyond not wanting to be seen pushing too hard for MS since he was actually getting strong support, unlike Walrein.
Ag's initial vote then vanishing to do more ISOs while the entire thread revolved around who he voted, and only chiming in with unrelated stuff never acknowledging MS vote on him in any serious capacity doesn't sit quite right with me. While I know the feel of dropping live interaction to catch up, I disagree with dropping a vote on your first real ISO, and not following up on it at all even when the whole thread is talking about MS. Also unrelated note your ISOs are hard to read, seperate points by something(I seperate them with links). Sorta forgive him never getting around to addressing MS again because the day ended like that, but while it was going I still find his actions more scummy than town.
Knights had a burst early, then dropped into a pointless argument with MS which was really just fluff even in the context of arguing with the main lynch target. This feels more inline with expectations of town KoC after last game, but the day was way too short to tell, too small of a sample size.
Everyone else had no meaningful contributions beyond popping in to vote. Asek and Hitmon both popped in to specifically say not to vote MS, again both ending the day with no thinking the main lynch is scum. One of them is scum trying really hard to be on the correct side of the lynch, the other is psychic with a bad records. They never scum together, their interactions as previously described don't fit, and distancing could have been far more subtly without risking either getting lynched by distracting from the main lynch. For obvious reasons my current preference is voting between them.

Asek and Hitmon, please be deers(not a typo) and address my points against you. Doubly goes for Hitmon whose reaction to my posts ended with overreaction and accusation while misrepresenting what I was doing. If I am scum then what I am saying is a lie because you are town who I am twisting the actions of, therefore all the actions I have a problem with should be explainable from a village perspective, or mistakes made by a villager that should be admitted as such, if that can't be done that the only truth that remains is that they are the actions of a scum.

What was unexpected was the fact that Hawkie was killed. I honestly expected the death of Texas or Yeti, and not Hawkie.

I agree that Asek is scum and this is a TvS, personally. What I disagree with, however, is your false dilemma. Scum can always tell the truth, for purposes of looking towny, or to rephrase it in order to make the other side guilty, or to make an arguement. For example, I like most of your post, but I still think you're scum in spite of that. I think that you're doing the second of the three and continuing to push a mislynch on me.

deadline tmrw

we lynch in ag/asek/lw/dle pref the first 3

dislike immensely dle and asek's mianess today

I like this and agree with it. Pretty sure this results in a solved game. What's "mianess" tho?

During which day (and yes I'm being lazy and not looking for it)

Like, I just don't see any world where asek is town based off of all the 180's he's done. His "I told you so" attitude on the lynches and his continual push for leet/the deaths of people who TR leet.

A good summation of why I think we should lynch Asek. He's playing like an insane cop who got a guilty read.

Gotta go now, sorry
Will have more later

 

[LightWolf]

I agree that Asek is scum and this is a TvS, personally. What I disagree with, however, is your false dilemma. Scum can always tell the truth, for purposes of looking towny, or to rephrase it in order to make the other side guilty, or to make an arguement. For example, I like most of your post, but I still think you're scum in spite of that. I think that you're doing the second of the three and continuing to push a mislynch on me.

Sigh you didn't answer my actual questions at all. Also no if am telling the truth about you I am scum that means two things, either you are also scum, or you have been acting suspicious, lying about your initial asek read, lying about how you progressed to it changing, lying about wanting to protect proph, lying about your reasons for voting me, lying about your overreaction earlier this day and lying about me tunneling you. One of us has to be lying in these cases, that is a fact. Explain the actions I questioned how they can come from a town perspective without a shred of manipulation, if you can't justify them, then they are scummy, simple as that.

 

[LightWolf]

Also Yeti please reply to my moody counter argument, and my questions regarding how you handled MS from my day 2 quoted post

 

[LightWolf]

Paperblade if the mason recruits a town the same night that town is killed by scum, what role do they show up as, villager or mason?

 

[LightWolf]

None
if town, None
if mafia, None

I don't think the mafia is in that pool.

I thought you scum read asek?

 

[LightWolf]

Former Hope you previously read hitmon saying "literally every one of my town reads died in quick succession despite my objections." as something youd not think scum would think. I'd like to challenge that by saying the only thing he is saying there is that he town read every mislynch till now and objected to those lynches at the time. You sure this couldn't be scum grandstanding to show off how pro town they been acting, and truly only town would make that statement?

 

[Former]

I didn't say scum wouldn't say that, I said scum leet wouldnt say that.

Since as much as he's voicing against the mislynches, he is also saying that about the kills and no offense to leet, but I don't think his scum game is clever enough to say that unprompted as in the past leet has shown a very subdued scum game

Like. Yes maybe grandstanding or maybe leets scum game has just straight up gotten better. But for now I'm fine with that slot unless the current ventures fail

 

[Panic Station]

i dont know why people are so reluctant to vote here

Gonna break my own taboo for this one.

You're the only one here gunning for a guy who has been pinted out could be a Mason. I don't buy it, but I also don't believe the answer is voting that. Let the scum find out for themselves if they're wrong.

 

[Panic Station]

Maybe not the only guy? Need to go back and reread votals. Still a bad idea to prove it wrong in the daygame when that helps scum's Mason hunt.