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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Ghost / Fairy Mismagius
Tornadus is probably better off with Aeroblast, or perhaps switch the defiant to competitive, personal prefers flight gem return because I can use on Torn-T.
The support move pool of Cresselia sucks, not particularly interested possibly another Crocun. Don't know how rest talk psycho shift works but that is probably against the sleep clause
Malamar...., well I would rather have Serperion with Contrary, just no.
Tornadus is probably better off with Aeroblast, or perhaps switch the defiant to competitive, personal prefers flight gem return because I can use on Torn-T.
The support move pool of Cresselia sucks, not particularly interested possibly another Crocun. Don't know how rest talk psycho shift works but that is probably against the sleep clause
Malamar...., well I would rather have Serperion with Contrary, just no.
^ Aeroblast has 100 BP, Aerilate Natural Power has 106, Aerilate Return has 133. Competitive Tornadus is nothing when its strongest special attacks are not even reliable, and neither is Competitive. What Tornadus lost in the gen shift are Flight Gem Acrobatics and reliable Hurricane, and Aerilate is an attempt to make up for the lost of those 2 moves.
That says, Aeroblast can be added together with Competitive, while Aerilate, Competitive, and Regenerator in Torn-T form are mutually exculsive.
But that's right, even with competitive and Aeroblast Tornadus is not very useful, because we still have to use focus miss as our major coverage move what so ever, so unless GF decides to give Tornadus Aeroblast AND something similar to Aura sphere, it still sucks. (So, some "compound eye" like ability is probably the best)
Ghost/fairy mismagius
With the weather wars basically over, moonlight isn't as terrible as it was in gen 5. Especially with all the mchary running around. Also lunar dance is seeing more usage.
You're right about status though. (could've sworn it got heal bell)
With the weather wars basically over, moonlight isn't as terrible as it was in gen 5. Especially with all the mchary running around. Also lunar dance is seeing more usage.
You're right about status though. (could've sworn it got heal bell)
It's less about how reliable it is or not, but more on how a retyping doesn't give it any new niche or whatsoever, and its checks and counters are still unchanged with that retyping.
What? Fairy is a really good defensive typing, and Fairy/Psychic isn't bad either. Mono-psychic typing is just awful, it's a huge reason why no one uses Cresselia. No longer pursuit trapped by T-Tar, no longer weak to U-Turn, it'd only be weak to Poison and Steel (pretty much irrelevant outside of Venuaur, Gengar, Lucario, Excadrill, and Scizor) and Ghost.
Ghost/Fairy Mismagius would only be good for getting STAB on Dazzling gleam, neutrality to dark doesn't mean shit when any remotely strong Knock Off is going to KO you anyway. 4 immunities is nice though.
To add to what Sergeant Spooky said, since most sets are support it usually only has one attacking move, and a fairy attack is better than a psychic one.
Ghost/Fairy Mismagius
Torn and cress will just be broken, malamar needs a lot more than that etc.
Torn and cress will just be broken, malamar needs a lot more than that etc.
People who think that Psychic / Fairy Cresselia wouldn't be anything special in OU are underestimating it quite a bit. One of Cresselia's biggest problems has always been a subpar typing, which means that even though she had incredible bulk, it often couldn't capitalize on it, because offensive Pokemon could power through it with either strong neutral attacks, or supper effective hits, or even with Pursuit support. Also, the weakness to U-turn is a big downside as well. With the Fairy typing, Cresselia loses its Pursuit and U-turn weaknesses, and becomes a full stop to Dragon-types. Garchomp is helpless against it. Lati@s are helpless against it. Kyurem-B is helpless against it, and can no longer hide behind a Sub and fish for an Ice Beam freeze or just PP stall Cresselia out of Moonlight PPs, as Moonblast 2HKOes back. Greninja can't 2HKO and it's U-turn is doing shit. You can check Mega Gyarados much better, without the fear of STAB Bite, and with Moonblast you can 3HKO it back (you could do nothing significant back before in terms of damage). Finally, with her newfound viability, Cresselia can put to use one of the best support moves in existence, Lunar Dance, to bring back to life dangerous sweepers.
So, with the additional Fairy typing, Cresselia loses two of its biggest weaknesses (U-turn and Pursuit), gains the best STAB that it could ask for (Moonblast), and hard counters some of the best offensive threats in OU (Kyuerm-B, Lati@s, Garchomp, Greninja), that it couldn't before. It doesn't even have 4 mss anymore, as it can cover Dragon and Fighting-types with one attacking move. Moonblast / (T-Wave / Toxic) / Moonlight / Lunar Dance is all it wants really.
That said, even if we don't go with Cresselia this round, there are always the next rounds so don't worry...
So, with the additional Fairy typing, Cresselia loses two of its biggest weaknesses (U-turn and Pursuit), gains the best STAB that it could ask for (Moonblast), and hard counters some of the best offensive threats in OU (Kyuerm-B, Lati@s, Garchomp, Greninja), that it couldn't before. It doesn't even have 4 mss anymore, as it can cover Dragon and Fighting-types with one attacking move. Moonblast / (T-Wave / Toxic) / Moonlight / Lunar Dance is all it wants really.
That said, even if we don't go with Cresselia this round, there are always the next rounds so don't worry...
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I actually agree with alexwolf's post as he makes extremely valid points and for that reason I'll vote Psychic/Fairy Cresselia. Cresselia has always been known to possess AMAZING bulk competing to something like the bulk of Lugia, but it's mono-Psychic typing really hampered it's effectiveness in previous generations with Band TTar being able to smash it with Pursuit/Crunch and Band Scizor destroying it with U-Turn. As alexwolf stated, with the added Fairy typing, it loses weaknesses to both while also being able to hit TTar hard with Moonblast which boasts great mono-attacking coverage. Not trying to steal all his points, but it does indeed wall a great amount of offensive threats like Garchomp, Lati@s, Mega-Luke who pass on a Steel attack such as SD Luke who opts for ESpeed to outspeed Talonflame and such.
Oh my bad, can't believe that I totally forgot out that Cresselia also gets Levitate, which complements the additional Fairy typing, which was the main reason why I voted for Mismagius in the first place. Now I might just have to reconsider which one I would vote for now.
Celebi def looks like a pixie. And grass/fairy seems like it'd be an upgrade in most situations especially for defensive sets.
Azelf is another big missed opportunity. Psychic/fairy/fire blast have ridick good coverage on top of its great offensive stats.
And of course Cresselia and Mismagius are great Fairy candidates for the reasons listed in this thread and the fact that they both fit the part.
There are others I wish had gotten fairy. But there's no point dreaming of what could have been. Sigh...
Ghost/Fairy Mismagius
There is literally no reason GF shouldn't have done this.
There is literally no reason GF shouldn't have done this.
Psychic/Fairy Cresselia
Even though I love Mismagius and ghost/fairy is legit STAB coverage, I'm kind of worried it still wouldn't be able to accomplish much in OU with those mediocre stats.
Aerilate Tornadus would be pretty good competitively but it doesn't really do much for me hype-wise. Kind of tired of the genie trio and strong flying STAB at this point.
Malamar would be more useful with sucker punch, but it still has bad stats and is very predictable as it's only good set is contrary + superpower.
Even though I love Mismagius and ghost/fairy is legit STAB coverage, I'm kind of worried it still wouldn't be able to accomplish much in OU with those mediocre stats.
Aerilate Tornadus would be pretty good competitively but it doesn't really do much for me hype-wise. Kind of tired of the genie trio and strong flying STAB at this point.
Malamar would be more useful with sucker punch, but it still has bad stats and is very predictable as it's only good set is contrary + superpower.
I didn't realize this, but:
252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 70-83 (15.7 - 18.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 139-164 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 208-245 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 277-326 (62.3 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hell, even this:
+6 252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 414-488 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
The most powerful move it can use and it won't even OHKO with Band 27.5% of the time. But, then:
0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 236-280 (65.9 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 112-132 (25.2 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even Iron Head won't do, however:
252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia in Sand: 178-210 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
Oh, did you expect to break through? Yeah no, look at this:
252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia in Sand: 194-230 (43.6 - 51.8%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia in Sand: 386-456 (86.9 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Psychic / Fairy Cresselia is quite possibly the best counter ever, even better than Togekiss. Hell, I'm changing my vote to Pyshic/Fairy Cresselia.
Honestly, I just don't want to see fairy/psychic cressellia everywhere as it seems way too hard to break. Cresselia is only not good at the moment due to its pursuit, u-turn weaknesses, and lack of offensive pressure. With two of these weaknesses removed, as well as new resistance added (and two marginally used weakness added) and stab on moonblast, I think Cressellia's good support pool and 120/120/130 defenses will be too much for the meta.
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