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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

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I guess I didn't get the memo that posting sets wasn't allowed at this time, so I'll just try to summarize what Snorlax has to work with. Facade hits a hell of a lot harder against neutral targets than Gliscor's EQ. Snorlax also has defensive boosting options like Curse, Amnesia, and Stockpile which Gliscor doesn't have. Oh, and just for reference:

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 97-115 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 102-120 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal

So Snorlax is at least beating Gliscor at its own game.

As for the weakness to Fighting types:

252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 260-308 (49.6 - 58.7%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

If Snorlax gets a Curse or Stockpile off of a free switch, it is going to be very difficult for the opponent to break through especially now that status is not an option against Snorlax. I could see Curse + Protect working very well in this physically dominated metagame. I really do believe that Poison Heal Snorlax has the potential to really shake up OU if it gets voted for.
 
Ooh, Levitate Chandelure or Poison Heal Snorlax?

I love both pokemon, but Poison Heal Snorlax doesn't make much logical sense.

Levitate Chandelure has great offensive merit, but Chandelure's main problem is a lack of speed and poor bulk, so I don't see it doing much.

I've gotta go with Poison Heal Snorlax then.
 
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I'm going to go with Levitate Chandelure, An immunity to earthquake and spikes will be quite nifty for it, should also make up for the lack of Shadow Tag in gen 5. Not sure if it'd be enough to boost it to OU though.

Roost Heracross doesn't seem like it'd make too much of a difference to me, I mostly use Hera for its offensive purposes, but I suppose after a mega evolution a form of recovery is always handy.

Poison Heal Snorlax sounds like a very interesting idea, not only giving it an alternative form of recovery but making it very dangerous thanks to STAB and toxic boosted Facade, making it dish out as much damage as it will take.

Drizzle Bronzong just doesn't seem very useful to me, we already have Politoed to carry out drizzles and I think Bronzong benefits a lot more from levitate.
 
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Metabro's said:
I'm going to go with Levitate Chandelure, An immunity to earthquake and spikes will be quite nifty for it, should also make up for the lack of Shadow Tag in gen 5. Not sure if it'd be enough to boost it to OU though.

Roost Heracross doesn't seem like it'd make too much of a difference to me, I mostly use Hera for its offensive purposes, but I suppose after a mega evolution a form of recovery is always handy.

Poison Heal Snorlax sounds like a very interesting idea, not only giving it an alternative form of recovery but making it very dangerous thanks to STAB and toxic boosted Facade, making it dish out as much damage as it will take.
Drizzle Bronzong just doesn't seem very useful to me, we already have Politoed to carry out drizzles and I think Bronzong benefits a lot more from levitate.
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You are supposed to only bold the vote choice in order to count easier.
 
Although it's pretty clear Poison Heal Snorlax is going to win this one, I'm going to go with Drizzle Bronzong. I really want to see theorymons that are adding new dimensions to the metagame rather than functioning as stand alone threats. Drizzle Bronzong would greatly increase a resurgence of rain teams, which I think could be a great topic to discuss. Plus, RainRoom could be a really cool strategy, with slow threats like Crawdaunt and Azumarill being able to take advantage of Trick Room after an Explosion and just rip a team to shreds with Crabhammer and Waterfall respectively. Could make for a pretty interesting win condition.
 
You make a solid argument, Red Cat, but I'm more concerned with the lack of resistances and stat difference than I am the Fighting weakness, which I probably should have mentioned earlier. Gliscor can take Fighting-, Bug-, and Poison-type moves like a boss, and having a Ground- and Electric-type immunity is more significant than one would first think, giving him plenty of switch-in opportunities, not to mention hazard immunity aside from a SR neutrality. All Snorlax has is a Ghost-type immunity, and while Ghost immunities are valued this gen, that's all Snorlax can really brag about. Also, Gliscor has a pretty good 95 speed (good for a wall, anyways), which makes his Sub/Protect set really formidable against slower threats like Rotom-W, Conkeldurr, Lucario, and Goodra, threats that would otherwise scare him out with the appropriate move, but Snorlax's 30 speed makes Sub/Protect strategies a little shaky. I'm not saying Snorlax will be a bad Theorymon; contrary to my criticism, I think Poison Heal is an excellent buff to the old king. In fact, every buff mentioned this round is appreciated by those receiving them, I'm just unsure if he'll be overshadowed by Gliscor or not.
 
Valmanway said:
In fact, every buff mentioned this round is appreciated by those receiving them, I'm just unsure if he'll be overshadowed by Gliscor or not.
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Well, STAB 140 BP Facade, possibly further boosted by Curse, will definitely give Poison Heal Snorlax a niche that Gliscor can never have, so I don't think he'll be completely overshadowed.
 
Flechazo said:
Well, STAB 140 BP Facade, possibly further boosted by Curse, will definitely give Poison Heal Snorlax a niche that Gliscor can never have, so I don't think he'll be completely overshadowed.
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Sorry but i fail to understand what those two would have in common except poison heal
 
Really rough decision vetween Levitate Chandy and Poison Heal Snorlax..

But I think I'll go with Levitate Chandelure.

Edit: after a little thinking, I'm changing my opinion! Going with Poison Heal Snorlax.
 
Valmanway said:
You make a solid argument, Red Cat, but I'm more concerned with the lack of resistances and stat difference than I am the Fighting weakness, which I probably should have mentioned earlier. Gliscor can take Fighting-, Bug-, and Poison-type moves like a boss, and having a Ground- and Electric-type immunity is more significant than one would first think, giving him plenty of switch-in opportunities, not to mention hazard immunity aside from a SR neutrality. All Snorlax has is a Ghost-type immunity, and while Ghost immunities are valued this gen, that's all Snorlax can really brag about. Also, Gliscor has a pretty good 95 speed (good for a wall, anyways), which makes his Sub/Protect set really formidable against slower threats like Rotom-W, Conkeldurr, Lucario, and Goodra, threats that would otherwise scare him out with the appropriate move, but Snorlax's 30 speed makes Sub/Protect strategies a little shaky. I'm not saying Snorlax will be a bad Theorymon; contrary to my criticism, I think Poison Heal is an excellent buff to the old king. In fact, every buff mentioned this round is appreciated by those receiving them, I'm just unsure if he'll be overshadowed by Gliscor or not.
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While Gliscor does have good defensive typing, Snorlax has much better overall bulk. With Poison Heal, Snorlax can switch into basically any defensive Pokemon and a few offensive ones and start boosting its defenses with Curse or Stockpile to the point where its pure normal typing does not matter. While Gliscor tries to stall with Toxic, Substitute, and Protect, Snorlax can boost with Curse to the point where nothing can touch it and then start killing with Facade. Poison Heal Snorlax is not a staller, in fact it may be able to destroy stall teams all by itself. Snorlax is a tank which boosts and wrecks.
 
Again, good points. I never had problems with Curse Snorlax in the past, so I guess that caused me to overlook his tanking ability.
 
Poison Heal Snorlax looks like it's winning by a landslide, and for good reason (add my vote to the masses!). Even without Facade, its viability skyrockets with great passive recovery (which, barring clerics on your side or perfect timing, is unaffected by Knock Off) and immunity from the burns it so hates. It would certainly play differently from Gliscor, but would also be a perfect partner to the scorp just like the Gligar/Snorlax UU combo I so loved in Gen V.

Snorlax walls special attacks, Gliscor walls physical (and absorbs Snorlax's only weakness, Fighting), both constantly recover, one can set up Rocks while the other Whirlwinds...so exciting. Sure it isn't perfect (Keldeo in particular laughs at this core) but combining Gliscor with the closest thing we'd have to an offensive Blissey would be a blast.

Facade is icing on the cake. The important thing is that Curselax can suddenly be a thing again.

(Also, sorry, but the whole "No MegaCross with Roost" is a bit too much of a stretch from the meta for my taste. Every change proffered to this thread are things that GF feasibly could've done given the current mechanics, and saying Roost somehow isn't allowed on MegaCross is a fundamental mechanical change that would set a terrible precedent for what so far has been a very interesting thread/meta. Thankfully even regular Hera with Roost is pretty boring, especially against the support behind Chandy and Lax in this round, but I really hope this is the last time a mon is considered that changes the actual mechanics of the game.)
 
I would at first immediately say levitate chandy but mold breaker eq's from excadrill and m gyarados who are both faster makes me hesitant. What earthquake using Pokemon does chandy reliably take out? Nothing comes to mind.

Roost hera I don't think much of because I really think scarf is its best set.

Same goes for bronzong


I think I'll go with poison heal snorlax. It makes snorlax more versatile and thus more viable. Poison heal can run curse far better than thick fat and use its bulk and status immunity to take down things like aegislash, tyranitar, heatran, and others to an extent. It's decent attack stat and deep movepool make this guy a great tank.
 
Valmanway said:
Again, good points. I never had problems with Curse Snorlax in the past, so I guess that caused me to overlook his tanking ability.
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Curselax isn't very good because Snorlax has to rely on Rest for healing and to get rid of status. Poison Heal does a lot to fix those problems since Snorlax would be immune to status and would get 12.5% of its health back passively between turns. If you use Protect on Snorlax with Poison Heal, it would be able to get 25% of its health back between hits which is good enough since it just needs to survive those first few hits while it boosts and then it is taking less than 25% per hit or it is strong enough to KO the opponent.
 
Voting for Poison Heal Snorlax, though I really don't like any of these tbh. Levitate doesn't do anything for Chandelure's biggest flaws, namely low Speed and vulnerability to hazards (sure it dodges Spikes but Stealth Rock is still a thing and Spikes aren't as common because of Defog). Using bulky Heracross with Roost doesn't seem feasible with Flying and Fire attacks being thrown around. As for Bronzong, well I kinda like this one. It makes rain easier to summon, though Bronzong's low offensive presence and momentum-killing nature don't do a lot for how offensive rain has to be now that it's not permanent anymore.
 
So, um... hi. I made that last suggestion. I just figured 'hey, there's no other drizzler than Politoed, let's suggest one', and Bronzong is a 'mon I like and one that has really fitting lore, so I went for it. I'm no good at this, actually, it's just that there isn't a way to tell other than having me tell you.
It might be a somewhat bad idea, I realize - you're providing good arguments why.

Personally, I don't really want to vote for Poison Heal Snorlax. It sounds like it'd be really tough to deal with, even alone - something people would have to specifically work against/around. Last month's Cresselia was already similar - she was a thing that was difficult to take down and so it probably outclassed everything else. Of course, I have no way to know what'll really happen, but I think what'll happen is we'll have a thing that regenerates an eighth of its big HP pool each turn while lacking a quadruple weakness.
It'll probably be an interesting experiment to implement it and see what happens, but I speculate the results won't be satisfying - it'll just be a big powerful hitter and hard to wear down - can't even burn it when it's poisoned.


I'll just vote for my own thing, Drizzle Bronzong, since it could actually possibly have teams built around it rather than just being a thing that sits well by itself, and give potential rain teams something other than Politoed. I have no idea if that'll be viable either, since again - I'm new, inexperienced, and don't understand things.
 
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