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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

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Seiterman said:
I know that Bulletproof doesn't fix Metagross' current problems, but that doesn't really seem to be the point. Rather, it lets him be a lot more effective in spite of those problems. Immunities to Shadow Ball, Aura Sphere and Focus Blast are the crux of the buff, letting him single-handedly take on a large number of Pokemon that rely on those moves for coverage or STAB. While the other immunities aren't as big a deal seeing as Metagross already resists most other ball and bomb moves, they can come in handy once in a while (if you're ever up against a Sun team utilizing Weather Ball, I guess?)
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Considering Shadow Ball is the most common ghost move in the meta, Metagross would see a raise back to OU.
 
except mega venusaur has much less to worry about than Metagross, because Flying and Psychic aren't nearly as common as Ground Fire and Dark. The fact still remains that Metagross has too many problems that don't allow it to be freely switched into a variety of pokemon like Mega Venusaur. Hippowdon can switch into Aegislash pretty safely and can recover off the damage, and Goodra can switch in rather easily as well. So it's not like Metagross is the only check/counter to Aegislash. There are just too many pokemon that outspeed and 2HKO Metagross, while Metagross can't OHKO them, unless it has a band. But being choice locked into a steel or psychic move is never good.
 
Can we focus on what Metagross can do, instead of what it can't do? Let's try to find some good cores for Metagross to fit in, and how its most effective set would look like.
 
What Alex said.

Speaking of Venusaur, it has a lot of synergy with Metagross (though then again, what does Mega Venu not have synergy with?). Mega Venusaur detests Latios/Latias, who basically switch in for free barring Sleep Powder and zap it with Psyshock. Metagross deals with these threats, and is also a good check to Staraptor and Tornadus-T. Meanwhile Venusaur handles Bisharp and the many Water and Ground-types that would give Metagross trouble.

I think Venusaur + Metagross + Gyarados would be a really solid offensive and defensive core.


The best way to derive good partners in a core is to look at the list of Pokemon Metagross handles, and find things that like those threats gone or dealt with.

-Aegislash
-Gengar
-Latios
-Latias
-Alakazam
-Starmie (needs AV)
-Celebi
-Jirachi
-Clefable
-Sylveon
-Togekiss
-Gardevoir

Since Metagross mostly deals with Psychic and Fairy mons, Fighting-types seem a natural fit. Keldeo for instance would really appreciate the Metagross support, as it has trouble with most of the Pokemon on this list but also destroys Landorus-T. Terrakion would also benefit greatly from Metagross support, especially from a Metagross developed to be a Landorus-T lure (Shuca + Ice Punch or HP Ice).

Garchomp is an interesting partner, as it is one of the few common SR users that doesn't fear Excadrill, and really appreciates someone getting rid of Lati@s and fairies.
 
alexwolf said:
Can we focus on what Metagross can do, instead of what it can't do? Let's try to find some good cores for Metagross to fit in, and how its most effective set would look like.
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Took the words right out of my mouth...

Truthfully, I think almost all of his usual sets will still be seen in great success (as they are not dramatically changed) and that he then functions as an interesting, if albeit, limited pivot. Truthfully I think his greatest strength will be fitting in cores that will be able to counter act what he needs help with and being able to solve what they need help with. Personally I would love the idea of seeing him be able to do this in conjuction with a great many things (I like the idea of him being a Pivot alongside Mandibuzz/Hydreigon as stated previously) so I wonder how well this would be then:

Lefties
-SR
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch

The moveslots can be debated a bit, but with a reliable defog user and a SR setter, the two can perform a great combination while doing what is needed. Mandibuzz needs Rock, Electric, Ice, and Fairy weaknesses covered and Meta covers three in typing alone while hitting all three with his Steel STAB alone. Meta is weak (as been stated by one guy SEVERAL times) to Dark, Ghost, Ground, Fire. Mandi is able to cover three of those (that's coincidental) and can easily work to covering the Fire weakness. Course this is something Meta could already do, so who could he then help later?

I'd like to say Jellicent, as he is able to absorb the Shadow Ball, the Bullet Seed, and the like. Is it a perfect combination? No, but I like the looks of it. Who else would be a good partner to help the Super Computer?
 
As stated before, Metagross + Hydreigon is an amazing core, with almost as good defensive synergy as Hydreigon + Aegislash. I'd add Landorus-T to resist Fighting for Hydreigon and having his weaknesses covered by the first two. Metagross w/ assault vest as a specially defensive pivot and (mostly) max def. Landorus-T as a physically defensive pivot. Hydreigon could be a wallbreaker or a scarfer, depending on the rest of your team.

Metagross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash/Ice Punch

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk / 236 SAtk / 232 Spd
Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Superpower
- Fire Blast

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 Def / 252 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

Edit: I realized I have two Ice weaknesses on this team, so I'd add Rotom-W in as well.
 
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Chou Toshio said:
What Alex said.

Speaking of Venusaur, it has a lot of synergy with Metagross (though then again, what does Mega Venu not have synergy with?). Mega Venusaur detests Latios/Latias, who basically switch in for free barring Sleep Powder and zap it with Psyshock. Metagross deals with these threats, and is also a good check to Staraptor and Tornadus-T. Meanwhile Venusaur handles Bisharp and the many Water and Ground-types that would give Metagross trouble.

I think Venusaur + Metagross + Gyarados would be a really solid offensive and defensive core.


The best way to derive good partners in a core is to look at the list of Pokemon Metagross handles, and find things that like those threats gone or dealt with.

-Aegislash
-Gengar
-Latios
-Latias
-Alakazam
-Starmie (needs AV)
-Celebi
-Jirachi
-Clefable
-Sylveon
-Togekiss
-Gardevoir

Since Metagross mostly deals with Psychic and Fairy mons, Fighting-types seem a natural fit. Keldeo for instance would really appreciate the Metagross support, as it has trouble with most of the Pokemon on this list but also destroys Landorus-T. Terrakion would also benefit greatly from Metagross support, especially from a Metagross developed to be a Landorus-T lure (Shuca + Ice Punch or HP Ice).

Garchomp is an interesting partner, as it is one of the few common SR users that doesn't fear Excadrill, and really appreciates someone getting rid of Lati@s and fairies.
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Well gee thanks for stealing the whole post I was about to write, I had a Gyara + MVenu core and Keldeo as well. Guess it's good I refreshed first.

Hydreigon is a notable as the only thing in OU that resists Fire/Ground/Dark and also hugely appreciates Fairy removal, plus Metagross can take Dragon and Fairy hits as well as switching into Focus Blast/Aura Sphere thanks to its new ability. Gengar removal is appreciated as well since offensive variants carry Dazzling Gleam for coverage sometimes.

EDIT: Well I guess I'm gonna be 5 minutes late on everything I post in this discussion lol
 
I will not lie, I am missing the Clear Body a little bit (testing this in hackmons actually...not best idea due to it being ridiculous but at least its controlled by friend using an ou team) and didn't realize how much I would forget bout Clear Body. Sure his attack is huge but missing out on the OHKO or 2H makes me shudder a bit.

Then I remember he is a pivot, and his destruction makes it so silly. I don't know how often I've eliminated an opponents Focus Blast just due to Meta getting a free switch. Then Aegislash felt like a cakewalk (I believe I tested against a Crumbler set) as Shadow Sneak was his best bet, making him pissed he couldn't spam me with Shadow Ball.

Anyone else try him out in this fashion? If so, id like to here your thoughts.
 
Discussion about Metagross is now over, thanks to anyone who participated. The next slate will consist of all the theorymon that made it in the second place in the past voting results. So we have:
  • Psychic / Fairy Cresselia
  • Levitate Metagross
  • Protean Porygon2
  • Fur Coat Arcanine
  • Intimidate Rhyperior
You have 24 hours to vote. Only vote for one theorymon, and the theorymon with the most votes wins. Don't forget to bold your votes, otherwise they won't count. In the case of a tie, we will vote again for the two theorymon that tied, with another day time limit. Start voting!

Also, there has been a change in the rules of the suggestions. Pokemon that are ranked C+ in the viability ranking thread are eligible to be picked as theorymon subjects now. This happened because the purpose of this project is to take niche or unviable Pokemon and turn them into good OU Pokemon, and C+ Pokemon are still niche Pokemon.
 
Well...there's another Theorymon done, a new one to come.

I've stated my thoughts on these many a time before, and now I will just vote; Fur Coat Arcanine
 
Protean Porygon2

Alexwolf did you miss my PM on hydration Escavalier or did you just not like it, I thought it was an interesting idea :(.
 
I'm gonna vote for Protean Porygon2, though most of these are pretty interesting choices.

Though I'd be interested in how Levitate Metagross would be implemented in a theorymon ladder if it's in the same group as Bulletproof Metagross. Would they both be possible abilities? Because that's actually really cool.
 
Seiterman said:
I'm gonna vote for Protean Porygon2, though most of these are pretty interesting choices.

Though I'd be interested in how Levitate Metagross would be implemented in a theorymon ladder if it's in the same group as Bulletproof Metagross. Would they both be possible abilities? Because that's actually really cool.
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Yeah, both would be possible abilities for it.
 
Psychic + Fairy Cresselia

How do we propose ideas for things to vote on in the future? I don't want to needlessly clutter up this thread, but I think I have a few neat ideas.
 
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