LOL wtf? How the hell is Snorkax D Rank. Dude, it's one of the best tanks ever used in UU. This thing, can stop Chandelure even if he had Shadow Tag thanks to the ability Thick Fat and his really awesome special bulk. Plus, he has really amazing bulk and possesses a very high HP unlike any other pokemon. Thick Fat is one of the reasons why Snorlax is popular used, meaning he can take powerful hits in the sun, such as a sun-boosted Fire Blast from a Ninetales, which doesn't even make a 2KO range on Snorlax. His huge collosal attack is also one thing, meaning that he can take hits, while hitting hard at the same time. Heck, he can also run a Choice Banded set, which OKOs and 2KOs most of the metagame! Snorlax also has a niche in beating Gengar in 1v1 if it runs crunch, which Blissey really wants, since Gengar fucks Blissey. Snorlax Dude, Snorlax is powerful, if used correctly. I mean, screw D rank, heck he should be B rank for this.
I think the list is overall great, but I have a gripe about two things:
Politoed being S while TTar is A+.
Dragonite being A (along side Salamence and beneath Kyube).
First of all, TTar and Poli are similar, they both set weather flawlessly, do what they do best (Poli leans better to defensive sets and TTar with offensive ones, but they can do the other side just as well), and can never be considered a liability or what we competitive gamers call "playing with 5 pokemon" unlike Abamasnow or Ninetales. Hippo is great but we can all agree that playing him Defensively is best, offense not so much.
So, if they are equal at this point, why does the list put one above the other? I know TTar has/had two pokemon that abused his existence to the extreme (Excadrill, Landrous) while Poli has...well basically many pokemon some of which are banned and many which still roam the OU, but that shouldn't be a differentiating factor.
Because the only reason these pokes are anywhere near the top of the ranks anyway is BECAUSE of the weather support they provide. Rain, with its 1.5x boost, Thunder, Hurricane, and multiple abusing abilities (even not including the banned SS) offers much more support than sand which sees only one common abuser and a somewhat inconsequential 1.5x boost to spdef.
They are ranked based on their support, mainly, rather than their offensive/defensive abilities by themselves (with the sand mons an exception, obviously)
Hell, I'd much prefer to use abomasnow with no hail than ttar with no sand or politoed with no rain. Abomasnow is a good pokemon, the issue lies in hail support not being all that abusable, thus it holds a lower rank.
1) Priority (ies): Extreme Speed is basically one of it's main advantages over any other physical Dragon.
2) Movepool: Dragonite has such a wide movepool that he isn't forced to run mixed sets, he can dedicate max evs in the relevant stats to do what he wants, Fire Punch instead of Fire Blast, etc. He's also not a one trick pony where as Sally is basically the same set with different items.
3) Ability: Dragonite has most of the time a guaranteed DD while Salamence cannot for example come in late game and set up upon a non Stab Ice move.
Dragonite should be A+.
TTar isn't near the top JUST because of sand. It also happens to be the best pursuit trapper in the game, which provides invaluable support to a lot of teams in the current metagame. I'd say that sand + pursuit from TTar is equal to, if not better than, the support that Politoed can provide from rain alone. I support moving TTar up to S.
And wut. Are you saying that TTar is a much better pokemon than aboma without weather because it would be fantastic in UU? This is incredibly surprising because you are generally at least somewhat sound logicallyMaybe T-Tar wouldn't last in OU, but it sure as hell would fuck shit up in UU if it dropped
I can vouch for how deadly ES coming from a banded Nite can be, especially to HO teams who can't risk sending in a check lest they be 2HKO'd and be easily be bluffed early game.If anything should get Dragonite into A+, it'd be its Choice Band set. At least, in my opinion. I've used both CB and DD Dragonite and found CB Dragonite to be more effective by miles. This isn't to say DD Dragonite is bad, but CB Dragonite's ability to hit hard right off the bat while, at full health, surviving almost anything that isn't a STAB Ice-type attack makes it easy to simply punch holes in your opponent's team (I like punching holes in my opponent's team). Plus, immediately powerful priority is nice for picking off weakened threats. I could support Dragonite in A+ thanks to just how good its CB set is. People keep telling me DD Dragonite is good, but it just never lived up to the hype every time I used it. I can't speak for any of Dragonite's other sets, though, since I've never used them.
@MikeDawg abomasnow mixed set is indeed very good but i think youre forgetting about tyranitar versatility. Tyranitar can run mixed sets much better than abomasnow due to its gigantic movepool and offenses, it can run effective choiced sets due to the fact that it inst rocks weak and again has much better offenses and movepool and it can also run effective lead sets to setup rocks and beat other leads. Tyranitar is a much better pokemon than snow even without weather. While the lack of sand would hurt its ability to switch into special attacks it would in no way make it a bad pokemon while abomasnow use is only justified because of weather.
And what is abomasnow niche outside of setupping hail? The mixed set is not a niche since abomasnow use is only justified because of hail. There are many pokemon that can run superior mixed sets (like tyranitar himself) but they usually have better things to do while that is abomasnow best shot at surviving in the ou tier. Also abomasnow has all of those flaws you cited, slow, weak to common types, cant tank hits without heavy investment.Without sand, though, ttar loses most of its niches almost in its entirety. It can't really pursuit trap because now fblasts/surfs/hpfightings are 1hkoing. It can't tank special hits at all really for the same reason. Its typing becomes a completle liability, being weak to fighting, ground, water, bug (it feels like im just listing the most common offensive types...) and it can't do anything about it because it's so slow. And of course it can't supply sand.
I wouldn't use either poke without their weather, but aboma maintains every niche it has now, it simply loses weather support (but hail isn't the difference between surprising a skarm with hp fire or hitting something with wood hammer, etc.)
And what is abomasnow niche outside of setupping hail? The mixed set is not a niche since abomasnow use is only justified because of hail. There are many pokemon that can run superior mixed sets (like tyranitar himself) but they usually have better things to do while that is abomasnow best shot at surviving in the ou tier. Also abomasnow has all of those flaws you cited, slow, weak to common types, cant tank hits without heavy investment.
I dont youre getting it. Tyranitar mixed sets are a lot better than abomasnow. The reason ttar dont use them commonly is because bulkier sets and choiced sets are preferred since they take advantae of ttar huge special bulk and access to pursuit. The reason abomasnow pretty much always uses them is because the other sets are plain innefective in the current meta.I'm sorry, niche wasn't the right word. I'm more discussing their non-weather purposes. Abomasnow is already accepted to be quite formidable offensively whereas ttar's uses as a pursuit trapper and the like are quite dependent on his own sand.
And while aboma does indeed have technically poor typing, it fares much better in this meta, namely due to its resistence to water (as opposed to a weakness) as well as one to ground
Yes all of them are innefective. Subseed/Specially defensive (which are similar) are too easy to force out and completely shut down by ferrothorn and substitute users, many of the mons its supposed to wall can screw it on the switch with status, the majority of the special attackers can beat it which seriously hurts its effectiveness (landorus, thundurus-t, tornadus, keldeo, volcarona, venusaur etc.) and its myriad of weakness severly reduces its switch opportunities. Physical attacking sets are simply mixed sets without hp fire i dont really know what are you talking about.So your saying that:
- SubSeed is inneffective
- Specially Defensive is inneffective
- Physical Attacker is inneffective
Heck, I've used even Choice Specs and it works well.
Expert Belt Abomasnow is used the most because it defeats every weather starter 1 v 1 and even Ninetales with correct prediction. Specially Defensive is excellent as well, since it takes Water-type moves fairly easily and can stall them out. Abomasnow also gets Ice Shard which makes it equally useful as MAmoswine on the Offensive SubSeed sets. I'm not taking part in this argument, so don't say "fanboyism" or stuff like that.