The Return of Flame Orb Cresselia (9th on Ladder at time of posting)

MythTrainerInfinity

MythTrainerInfinity

The Return of Flame Orb Cresselia (Updated EVs)

Edit: Currently peaking at 7th on the ladder.
Edit2: Peaked at 5th, done laddering for the day.
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Hooray for hastily drawn doodles after pulling an all-nighter.

I've gotten a couple requests to show people my team, so here it is.

One of my philosophies of battling is that it is as vital to maintain a solid defense as a solid offense. And well with my success on the ladder... you be the judge.

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Star Struck (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 108 HP/200 Atk/200 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Trick

This is the most solid anti-lead there is in my opinion. 429 speed lets it outrun Areodactyl, non-Scarfed Azelfs, and can prevent them from setting up Rocks 60% of the time. I do not understand why people still leave their Tyranitars in against it. Fire Punch for Scizor and Ice Punch for the Dragons and Skymin. If you want to use it don't get too Trick happy right off the bat because you might need that speed later when you see the rest of your opponent's team. Does ~+95% to most Scizors if not a OHKO, but since most are Life Orbed or will have to keep switching in while taking hits it'll handle them well.

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Wet Doggie (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/176 Def/80 SDef (Atk IV: 14)
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Roar
- Rest

Crocune. This defense helps it survive a +2 Atk LO Lucario's Close Combat. The 80 SDef pretty much lets it take Heatran's Fire Blasts as well as Blissey can and helps against those bulkier electrics that think they can stop it after one CM. Dragons will beat this, but there's more than enough that handles them well enough on this team. Since the metagame is all so offensive this can really mess up people's plans. Balance of offense and Defense is the most important thing in the metagame in my opinion. Too much offense has too many short-lived and easy to exploit vulnerabilities.

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Rawrness (Salamence) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 152 HP/180 Atk/176 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Fire Fang? Yeah, I mean it gets boosted by DD and does about what Jirachi does to those pesky Scizors. 280 speed lets it deal with Adamant Lucarios right off the get-go and 368 for decent Lefties recovery. This thing I usually save until the end to do some late night sweeping, but if you do get the chance to abuse it earlier on be my guest.

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Omega Zone (Magnezone) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 228 HP/100 Def/96 SAtk/84 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Charge Beam

Hello, I am a wall. Traps those Steels and is a good switch-in to take foe's Outrages. This set allows it to combat Blissey and basically threaten extinction to the enemy fat blobs with Charge Beam. I mean if you Trick a Scarf to something like a Bronzong and you get free reign to do whatever this is the perfect time to abuse Charge Beam.

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Psycho Duck (Cresselia) (F) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/160 Def/96 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Psycho Shift
- Trick
- Rest
- Psychic

For those unfamiliar with the move Psycho Shift basically moves the status to the opponent, it does not activate Heatran's Flash Fire and is basically a 90% accurate Burn move. I love throwing status back at the opponent too.

If you look at the RMT forum as of recent you will see it littered with a sickening amount of physical sweepers. I simply did not think that was acceptable, so I threw one of my old friends back on to this team. Even if you Burn a CBTar that is going to Crunch you it will do laughable amount of damage. If you really want to screw with people Trick the Flame Orb to a foe Blissey. It will basically make it really hard for them to keep on coming in on everything else on this team and of course when everything that is a threat is crippled thanks to this you can start prepping a sweep with Suicune or Salamence. Trick serves another purpose here. Instead of getting locked into mindless Trick wars with Choice items I just send this baby in and if the opponent is using a metagross or Jirachi to Trick they pretty much screw themselves over. Ice Beam is for Dragons and odd things like Breloom who is very annoying otherwise.

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Fat Egg Thing (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

Cleric that deals with pretty much anything else that this team has trouble with. I don't wanna risk losing to Dugtrio, so Max HP/Max Def is nice. One of the many weaknesses with many of the teams that I see recently is they lack a cleric. We all should be well aware that hax does occur and that in case something gets frozen it can be taken care of with swift and ease.

If you want me to describe a specific play style against specific pokémon ask away. I really don't like to tell people how to play my team because then some people just do what they are told and don't deviate from it and try more creative things.

Enjoy.
 
Hi.

I have battled you so fucking much, and the onliest reason I beat you was because of Skymin/SubTran combo. Since Skymin is not longer OU, I do not see any major weak.


Jirachi. I think that you have no specific reason for the 200 speed. If you have, please tell me.
Jirachi is fast with a scarf, but it is supposed to Trick the Scarf on a wall like Bliss/Cress/Swampert etc. After that, you're Jirachi is pretty useless. Salamence and Lucario outspeed it. Most CB Salamence run Jolly nature and just enough speed EV's to outrun Jolly Lucario (176 EVs). Use Jolly nature on you're Jirachi and enough speed EV's to outspeed Jolly Lucario, and the Salamence I told you. Use the same HP EVs and put the remaining (212) in you're attack. With that spread you lose 15 attack points, but you're speed stat is way better. With that spread you are also sure to outspeed Adamant max speed DDmence after 1 DD.
So this is the spread I suggest: Jolly; 108 HP / 212 Atk / 180 Spe.

Good luck, M.
 
You have a nice team, I really like those pictures, I may try doing something like that soon, if that's okay with you? Did you do this on paint, or did you do it on paper and then scan?

Onto the team, I see you having some trouble with SD Lucarios. I know your Suicune can take a hit, and so can your Cresselia, but really, on paper that thing will be able to do a ton of damage regardless if he's boosted or not. I'm pretty sure that you can play around it, but I'm just saying that I see you having some trouble with it down the line. Even Specs Lucario can give this team real trouble, hitting Super Effective on all your pokemon, and 2hko'ing them all, maybe 3 hko'ing your Blissey. You have to watch out for that, I know it's not as common as it once was, but still it's out there. Maybe run a
20 Hp/252 Def/236 Calm Blissey, as it takes hits a bit better overall. On average I mean, just not on the physical side.

Another pokemon that can and might give you some trouble is CM Jirachi's. They can come in, and after a CM or 2, they are keeping there subs up even through your Magnezones Thunderbolts/Charge Beams. It can outspeed Salamence, and take it wish Pyschic, the really only thing that can stand in it's way is Blissey, who still even loses out if Jirachi gets a Sp. Def drop, and with that ability it's really likely. I'm sorry if this is all theorymon, you're team is built very well and I see why it's in the top 10.

As for your Salamence, I would consider running Roost over Fire Fang, since I'm assuming that Magnezone is capable of dealing with those pesky steels, and Roost will help you take hits a better. With that EV spread, you're gonna be a live for a long time, despite SR + switching into repeated attacks.

Again, this is a very solid team, I really wish I had more to say about it, but I really can't. Everything looks good about it, and I'm actually speechless. This has got to be one of the best teams I've seen in a while. Congrats with this team. ^_^
 
I'm loving that Salamence pic lol.

I know you are against SR and all but I still recommend using it on your Jirachi since any sashed setup pokemon is a problem for this team. Especially Salamence. It leaves a really nice dent in this team.

I agree that Lucario is a weakness but as long as Jirachi is alive you should be fine.

I'll give a better rate later.
 
I drew them on Open Canvas with my tablet. Be my guest with doing something cool. I'm not one to stop people from that :P

Hmm well I lose a bit more than 15 attack points and I lose a vital potential OHKO on Scizor, so I'm not too sure about Jolly on Jirachi. I'm not too concerned about trying to outrun Mence anyway because I've got more than enough that'll simply screw it over. If everything tries to just keep outrunning each other then we get locked into silly speed wars and waste EVs.

CM Sub Jirachis are fun because Suicune takes care of them so nicely, right when they think its Ice Beam Cune, bam Roar. CM Jirachis tend to usually not run much speed, so the Jirachi I am using should deal with it fine.

I don't want to drop Fire Fang on Mence because then I'd only have Jirachi to take Scizor out for sure.

Specs Luke is easy to deal with because once it gets locked into a move its like screaming to setup on it. If people tried a CM Luke maybe I'd be worried.

Oh and SR would make me lose a vital move on Jirachi anyway. If I wanna beat someone I want to do it because I outplayed them, not because of some-er yeah don't get me started on it.
 
Hey, it's me, Addie.

and odd things like Breloom who is very annoying otherwise
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Was that me?

Anyway, I'm unsure of why you have Roar on that Suicune, as it really isn't helping you much, because you don't have any entry hazards or anything.
 
Katherine said:
Hey, it's me, Addie.

Was that me?

Anyway, I'm unsure of why you have Roar on that Suicune, as it really isn't helping you much, because you don't have any entry hazards or anything.
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I don't remember who it was, but I know I needed Ice beam after losing to a Breloom. I always carry some form of phazing otherwise DDers and BP teams have their way with you.

Not to mention things that love to sit behind a sub and just setup.
 
Well I battled this team earlier. The biggest weakness I saw was SubSD Rhyperior. Especially in sandstorm. Cresses Ice Beam didn't break the sub.

To fix this maybe give Cress Grass Knot over Trick.
 
Fatal Edge said:
Well I battled this team earlier. The biggest weakness I saw was SubSD Rhyperior. Especially in sandstorm. Cresses Ice Beam didn't break the sub.

To fix this maybe give Cress Grass Knot over Trick.
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Well you did get the Stone Edge Crit right as I was breaking it, so :P Normally I have Suicune deal with it, I just got too greedy I guess.

Trick is needed to deal with the Trick Scarfers.

I am trying to address as many threats as I possibly can with this team, difficult, but it can be done.
 
It means I think its too cheap. There are many other players who feel this needs to be tested, but that's a different thread in a different forum.

I don't like putting 252 in much as you lose durability or you're going for some situational KO that everyone will EV around next week.
 
Great team infinity
I must suggest you roost > Fire Fang in mence.
You can kill steels with magnezone, so roost is a better option, letting mence live longer.
 
Hey, you're that guy that keeps beating me :p

Anyways, very solid team, I honestly can't see any weaknesses, and believe me I've tried.

I was about to recommend going jolly on jirachi, but then I realized your points were correct, and I might even switch to adamant myself now.

So, only nitpick I can think of....how often has charge beam come into use? In all our battles I never recall seeing you use it. Maybe try flash cannon for ttar, or signal beam, since you don't have anything that can really take out celebi right off the bat.

Wow, and then I realized this team doesn't even have stealth rocks...I had free reign of switching every time and still came up short mostly. Very impressive I must say.
 
What I can see you having a problem with is a choice-banded Heracross. It can 2hko your whole team. Megahorn will 2hko suicune, blissey, 1-2 hit ko jirachi and ohko cress after stealth rock damage. Blissey and magnezone are both ohkod by close combat. Your best bet against this heracross would be to use salamence, but after stealth rock, it will get ohkod by stone edge if you get predicted and it can come in easily on a psycho shifted burn from cresselia, a toxic from blissey or a sleeping suicune. I don't exactly have an idea of what changes you could make to remove this weakness, though. Its just something to keep in mind.
 
myth popularly refuses to use sr

i also wonder at the usefulness of charge beam on zone, it seems more situational than effective in the long run (i mean wont bronzong just blow up if it doesn't have EQ, hardly any sets have neither)

besides that it's a good team
 
Have you considered putting Body Slam over Fire or Ice Punch on Jirachi? It allows him to swoop in with his scarf earlier on and score paralysis on something that really needs its speed. After tricking, it gets even better. A paralysed Pokemon holding a choice scarf is effectively useless, and it can combo with Iron Head to make for a classic ParaFlinch combo. My only other concern with this Jirachi is that he has no way to deal with the common Infernape Anti-Lead. Iron Head won't do all that much, and he has a super-effective Fire Blast generally to wipe you out, allowing him to then set up rocks. Yeah, there's the chance you can get multiple flinches to shut him out, but your Flinching Attack isn't doing too much. Against a Negative Defense, 0HP/0Def Infernape, it does 29-34, scoring at best a 3HKO, but more likely a 4HKO. You can't count on 3 Flinches. Zen Headbutt on the same Infernape will deal over 100%. Yes, it has a lower flinch chance, but it only needs one of them to prevent him from killing you and/or setting up rocks.

Having access to the Punches on a Scarfed Pokemon makes you a more effective Salamence/Scizor Counter/Revenger, but Magnezone covers Scizor nicely and can take out a 'Mence stuck on Outrage, and your Cress does a decent job of countering either of them. Seems ot me making Jirachi a more effective anti-lead and lategame FlinchHaxor would be better than having that coverage, but maybe that's just me. You could always keep Ice Punch to take out Mence and just run one of the two above options, it's up to you.
 
M Dragon said:
Great team infinity
I must suggest you roost > Fire Fang in mence.
You can kill steels with magnezone, so roost is a better option, letting mence live longer.
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My safest switch-ins vs. Scizor is Jirachi and Salamence. When you fight a Scizor you don't know if it has Superpower or something and a CB Superpower makes short work of Magnezone. So... I wouldn't want to chance that. Body Slam in tandem with Iron Head takes at least two turns to set up and would actually be less effetive than just using Iron Head twice or maybe even three times.

scofield said:
Hey, you're that guy that keeps beating me :p

Anyways, very solid team, I honestly can't see any weaknesses, and believe me I've tried.

I was about to recommend going jolly on jirachi, but then I realized your points were correct, and I might even switch to adamant myself now.

So, only nitpick I can think of....how often has charge beam come into use? In all our battles I never recall seeing you use it. Maybe try flash cannon for ttar, or signal beam, since you don't have anything that can really take out celebi right off the bat.

Wow, and then I realized this team doesn't even have stealth rocks...I had free reign of switching every time and still came up short mostly. Very impressive I must say.
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The thing with the way people generally play SR leaves them wide open for me to just come in and setup. People shouldn't focus on getting SR up first turn, instead they should realize how to deal with the lead without worry. Charge Beam is generally used when I know I can abuse it without my opponent doing much back. If I am lucky it can beat Blissey 1v1.

I'm not going to keep Jirachi in on Infernape I'm going to switch to Suicune when it uses a Fire move and pick it off then.

CB Heracross nearly 2HKOs the entire OU metagame... So... yeah prediction beats it. Once it gets locked in a move its pretty easy to set up on.
 
I'm wondering how you handle Ape... Especially All Out Attacking MixApe. It 1-2HKOs every member of your team except Cress who at best Tricks a Flame Orb.

Care to explain?
 
Well don't forget that the Ape has to come in when I'm not setting up (ex. Dragon Dance, one of my Trickers doing what they do best, or a Subbed Magnezone... I guess Blissey's Toxic too to a lesser extent).

As long as Suicune is at 55% or above I'm usually safe to Surf mixape into oblivion. They pretty much have to predict to use GK right when I go to Cune. Cresselia also walls it decently and those mispredicted 10% per turn recoil kinda screws it up too. After one Intimidate from Mence Bliss survives the CC too. Plus if they mindlessly throw around Close Combat Cresselia's Ice Beam will hurt it quite a bit.

That's why I don't like Life Orb because if you're up against someone with good mindgames you're going to waste 50% of your health just trying to hit soemthing properly.

If its Nasty Plot Ape it lacks a move that mixape would have and Suicune or Salamence takes it down. My biggest concern with the Apes is Endeavorape because if they lay Rocks down Suicune is pretty much done in that game.
 
I have played you and this team probably more than anyone, so take that into consideration with this rate.

@Jump charge-beam beats togekiss (which thunderbolt alone will not) but I can see a better move working in its place like magnet rise or explosion but thats your call.

On Salamence: Max attack and use fire blast over fire fang, it will still do more to the things you're using it against after a DD (except bronzong).

With Blissey: I'd advise more sp. def but thats your call again but keep this in mind: If dugtrio comes in on toxic or ice beam it will lose even if you use the standard calm evs.

Life Orb is a fine option on Salamence, only steel resist dragon so don't worry about losing health due to prediction too much.

Cress: Absolutely fantastic, don't change it.
Suicune: Fine too

Actaully with Salamence, you rely on it to take out Scizor and and a few select fighting types unless someone is stupid enough to switch scizor into cress after the flame orb has activated. For this reason alone you might want a bulkier set with roost but you can still play around scizor, its just that CB U-turn hurts.

Anyway nice team and I'm already sick of it from playing you so many times.
 
random threat time but Swords Dance Heracross really lays a number on you. I really can't think of you who would beat the jolly swords dance / rock slide / megahorn / cc versions because only jirachi outspeeds it and thats only with his precious scarf. my first suggestion is simple. Switch Salamence to 296 Speed (meaning you could either go jolly to keep a lot of hp but lose power or you could go adamant which means you need to take a lot out of hp or atk. Up to you pretty much.

my other suggestion is a bit more risky but cresselia handles special threats fairly well. Celebi over blissey with psychic instead of seiemic toss and using 318 speed (yes that means going timid). Psychic / Recover / Heal Bell / Grass Knot pretty much does the same thing as blissey although you wont be taking some hits as well but to be fair, you will take a few physical ones better.

these two above suggestions at least give you 2 switch-ins / revenge kills against sd heracross as well as giving you the added bonus of faring even better against lucario should he opt for jolly (celebi psychic will dent him a lot).

really nice team, ive used a cresselia similar to that on, it really is effective.
Just wondering but with Skymin in ubers for a little while, have you considered using Stealth Rock on Jirachi in place of Ice Punch? cresselia is taking out all dragons and you have celebi and mence backing you up as well should you need it.
 
Celebi would give me quite a weakness to Heatran, I don't think I can do that.

Yeah hmm Salamence I'm not 100% happy with. I usually opt for Flamethrower if I go for a special Fire attack. Fire Blast missing at a key moment vs. Scizor would really suck.

Jolly Heracross with SD I have not encoutered yet and other than using Suicune I'm not 100% sure how I would apporach it. Like ape I'd expect it to have a hell of a time getting in as is. I'm gonna test out Flamethrower and Jolly to outrun Lucario for sure and we'll see how it goes.
 
As always, I respect your stand on SR. However, it would really help this team out, but that's your choice. If this team peaked at 5th, it doesn'nt need to be rated as much as shown people that teams can succeed without using SR.

Charge Beam seems a waste of a slot - consider Flash Cannon or Sub.

Great team though (sorry for spelling
istakes, typing this on my iPod.)
 
Again Celebi would give me three pokémon weak to Fire, so I would have to remove Jirachi or Magnezone.

I know I hold myself back by not using SR, but that's my policy. I hope my opponents enjoy the freedom of switching around without fear of damage from SR. I'm not going to descrimnate my opponent from using a pokémon just by switching in or out.

(I do have an alt where I do test SR, I personally find wins are way too easy via that way.) You know where's the challenge, where's the fun? I want a fun battle where me and my opponents have to rack our brains trying to figure what to do. All in all as long as you follow the rulesyou can pave the way you want to battle and not always following what some bog standard is. Be different! :D That's how the metagame evolves.

Uh... Magnezone does have Substitute already.

A lot of the strategy for getting it to KO a few members of my opponent's team is to use Charge Beam behind a sub making it hit increasingly harder and harder. If you can get a couple SAtk rises you could even take on Flamethrower Blissey.

Suicune, Salamence, and Magnezone seem like very situational sweepers, but if ya make the opportunity available (thanks to the Trickery and the constant threat of burns) this team sweeps pretty well.
 
Celebi would give me quite a weakness to Heatran, I don't think I can do that.
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i was under the impression that suicune and mence are your heatran counters alongside blissey. Yes celebi gives you 3-4 pokemon weak to heatran but personally i dont see how much of a problem that is.

i forgot that you dont use stealth rock lol ill suggest something in a bit
 
Eh, its a huge risk to get hit with Dragon Pulse or HP Ice plus if Mence gets burned from something then Mence isn't going to OHKO.

Celebi is a great pokémon, but it has way too many weaknesses for my personal taste.
 
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