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The Side-effects of Religion

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I don't think it's what religion does, I think it's what the people who interpret the religion do with it. For example, I have a friend who is a Christian (I, like Alchemator, go to a Christian school but am an athiest) and we talk about God, the Bible, what the Bible tells us to do, etc. a lot. And he always finds examples of these people claiming to be Christians doing the wrong thing, then will look maybe 5 passages up and show me why they are doing it wrong and what God intended for them to do. Then he rambles for a while about why people don't like Christians.

Anyway, I think that if people used Religion as it was outlined in their books would get along better than if they changed it to suit their wants. Also I'm pretty sure I capitalized a bunch of words consistently that shouldn't have been.
 
vonFiedler said:
Don't you think it's a little fucking insulting to religion to call atheism a religion? Then you'd have to start accepting crazy celebrity cults. Still looking for the part of the bible that says no cursing.
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nope, it's the truth and nothing but.

Exodus 20:7
"You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.''

This rules out Damn and OMG... Damn being you are calling God to send someone or something to hell, when you yourself are guilty enough to be sent to hell. OMG... It depends on the motives behind saying it... if you are using it for something like prayer, it's ok. But using it for general cuss like i see all the time is wrong... As for the other cuss, i just take is as general dirty language that i couldn't stand to use myself, but there are New Testament verses that speak about staying away from the things of this world, which would include words such as shit and fuck and piss ect...
 
Food is a thing of this world. Also, saying that I'm guilty enough to be sent to hell is judging me. Do not judge lest ye be judge. I don't say this in jest. It's one of my core tenets, and should be one of yours. Further, the quote from Exodus hold to the old belief that you should not say or write the name of the Lord. We rarely say his name either, but don't mistake a passionate sign of reverence for a sinful act.
 
vonFiedler said:
Food is a thing of this world. Also, saying that I'm guilty enough to be sent to hell is judging me. Do not judge lest ye be judge. I don't say this in jest. It's one of my core tenets, and should be one of yours. Further, the quote from Exodus hold to the old belief that you should not say or write the name of the Lord. We rarely say his name either, but don't mistake a passionate sign of reverence for a sinful act.
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how about these
“Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers” (Eph. 4:29)

“But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned” (Matt. 12:36-37).

“Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving” (Eph. 5:4 NIV).

i was going to edit it back in when i found it but you guys beat me to posting

edit because don't want to derail thread anymore so: i don't really want to go on about stuff but i'd say that if god inspired words were written as an outline for a christians life they would apply to all time, not just one time period and i'm thinking jesus wouldn't go around using cuss words since i've never heard of him saying darn or shoot or unlucky or goatwash's beard or whatever the cuss words were back then. (there had to be some words condemned in society or else we wouldn't have any probably)
 
Oh please. No curse word we speak today was spoken when the bible was written. The quote itself has more to do with the nothing but god approach to life.
 
Robert said:
Atheist's need to be vocal because they are at constant risk of having their rights infringed upon by the faithful.
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When I was in the second grade I was diagnosed with autism, and when I went to my highly capable class (something they did once a week for gifted children) my second grade teacher told all the students that I was retarded. I never escaped that, not even amongst the other teachers. Only my closest friends knew I was smart, and only one teacher ever fought for me. In spite of getting above 1500 on the SATs when I was in middle school, my parents constantly struggled to keep the school system from putting me special ed classes or troublemaker schools. They didn't always succeed.

Any atheists who thinks they "at risk" for oppressed can go eat a dick.
 
vonFiedler said:
When I was in the second grade I was diagnosed with autism, and when I went to my highly capable class (something they did once a week for gifted children) my second grade teacher told all the students that I was retarded. I never escaped that, not even amongst the other teachers. Only my closest friends knew I was smart, and only one teacher ever fought for me. In spite of getting above 1500 on the SATs when I was in middle school, my parents constantly struggled to keep the school system from putting me special ed classes or troublemaker schools. They didn't always succeed.

Any atheists who thinks they "at risk" for oppressed can go eat a dick.
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The "My situation is worse than yours so shut the fuck up" argument does not work. Just because one situation is worse than another doesn't mean the other one isn't bad.
 
von fiedler, it really sucks that you were treated that way, but what does it have to do with atheism?

J-man said:
Atheist moral code is virtually do anything that makes you happy... Drugs, Extra Marital Sex, Homosexuality, Drugs, Lying, Stealing, Or maybe not doing these things... Divorce whenever you get in a fight with your spouse... Cuss... And complaining about religion... Ect...
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This is bull. Although there are definitely atheists that act this way it is not something that we all follow.
 
My situation isn't worse. My situation is pretty fucking cozy. But I've seen persecution and I get a little tired of people who think they get odd looks every once in a while, or who see a cross and cry for their rights. Atheism has it pretty damn good, I'm not of the opinion that either Christianity or Atheism are dying minorities like some cry.
 
J-man said:
One thing you don't understand is that your atheism and darwinism is a religion.
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Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. They're both very general terms. There are atheistic belief systems that might be called religions, just as there are theistic religions.

The origin of species by means of evolution by natural selectionis a scientifc theory, not a religion. Evolution sensu stricto - the gradual change of organisms over generations - is an observed fact. And no-one but creationists refers to "Darwinism".

And the theory of evolution by natural selection has absolutely nothing to do with the "cause" or "purpose" of the Universe. It describes the behaviour of one small part of it. All scientific theories seek to describe the behaviour of some portion of the Universe to some degree of accuracy. None can say anything about the "purpose" of the Universe or whether such a purpose exists, and they can only explain how something was caused in terms of it being caused by something else or it being a random event.

Atheist moral code is virtually do anything that makes you happy... Drugs, Extra Marital Sex, Homosexuality, Drugs, Lying, Stealing, Or maybe not doing these things... Divorce whenever you get in a fight with your spouse... Cuss... And complaining about religion... Ect...
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You're just a clueless idiot there.

And as I have previously explained, I'm not sure the religious can have morals at all. Doing (or not doing) something because you believe God says so isn't morals, it's doing as you're told. Doing something because you believe it will keep you out of Hell or get you into Heaven isn't morals, it's looking after your own arse. Morals is doing what you believe to be right because you believe it to be right, regardless of whether it brings gain or loss to yourself and regardless of what authorities say.
 
A person's morals are defined by their actions. People who only follow God to stay out of hell never stick to it. I do what I believe is right because I want to see the world become an even better place, and I feel good for it. In 20 years I never felt good as a cynic. What motivates you to do good cantab? Or do you just dwell on the myriad ways that humans are incapable of the concept?
 
vonFiedler said:
What motivates you to do good cantab
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I don't really know. To be frank I'm hardly a particularly righteous person. I mean I don't go stealing and starting fights and getting rat-arsed every weekend, but neither am I exactly charitable or generous. In short, I'm like probably 99% of the population really.
Perhaps it's that I don't really need any motivation - it just comes naturally.
 
Heh, glad to see things are actually pretty polite in this thread.

The Christian mentality, as to my understanding, is that we're all guilty, kind of our default setting, which is why we need God's grace, through Jesus, to rescue us. As in, we're all in the same boat that's sinking together, and as Christians, it's our duty to point people to what we see as the Life raft. Any Christian that passes judgment on another as if they themselves were any better are in the wrong, and it's a common attitude that turned me off of the whole thing myself until my own heart was changed.

Theist or atheist, whatever real persecutions or encroachment of freedoms we may experience, we're all still very lucky to live in a place where we can discuss the subject openly, either online, or in public. Not so everywhere.

http://persecution.net/

This is a site I visit occasionally to stay in touch with the trials of our brothers and sisters in other countries; Christians in parts of the world where their religion is met with beatings, murder, and genocide (or the religious equivalent). Obviously, religious intolerance is huge all over the world, with all sects and beliefs suffering because of it. It just seems Christian persecution of this level often goes unreported, at least where I live.

edit: and regarding the verse "Judge not, that you be not judged"...the rest of it goes "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."
It's not saying you shouldn't have standards, or else a judge couldn't be expected to convict a murderer of their crime. It's saying the standards you have, you should be willing to apply to yourself as well (more than that, they WILL be).
Jesus then goes on to talk about people who talk about the speck in other people's eyes while being oblivious to the plank in their own, further enforcing the theme.
 
Cartoons! said:
The Christian mentality, as to my understanding, is that we're all guilty, kind of our default setting, which is why we need God's grace, through Jesus, to rescue us.
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I wouldn't call it the default setting. Jesus made a rather long rant about this. You may not have murdered, but have you never wished someone to be dead? Are you so better for thinking destructively? We are all imperfect, but no one is beyond redemption. Having a standard does not make it up to me to put others to it. Law is different, law requires empiricism.
 
If I did, they still wouldn't be in the bible. I just think it's insulting that five times a day when I visit my family I have to explain new words to them, but saying fuck is a sign of vulgarity and stupidity. My vocabulary should be defined by its size and versatility and not by 6 or 7 words.
 
J-man said:
That is a false and erroneous statement made solely on opinion.
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please provide me with evidence that supports any religious belief. Holy books do not count.

Neither here nor there, but you don't understand what "love" is and you miss the point of marriage. I will not respond to any posts about this because it is off topic. It's not solely religious if a state like California and Maine can pass laws against gay marriage.
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you must be kidding me. Please explain to me what love and marriage are then

countdown to "TO MAKE BABIES" response

Your in-toleration of our in-toleration is ridiculous. One thing you don't understand is that your atheism and darwinism is a religion.
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Darwinism maybe, but calling atheism a religion is beyond stupid. Atheism is a response to claims of religion, nothing more.

Atheist moral code is virtually do anything that makes you happy... Drugs, Extra Marital Sex, Homosexuality, Drugs, Lying, Stealing, Or maybe not doing these things... Divorce whenever you get in a fight with your spouse... Cuss... And complaining about religion... Ect...
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Christians do these things too, hth
 
popemobile said:
Atheism is a response to claims of religion, nothing more.
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Why even call it that. It's just a label for lacking a god or set of gods. Buddhists aren't theists, but they aren't reactionary. Atheism in your sense is no religion, but you sure do like to drink at the same water cooler.
 
popemobile said:
please provide me with evidence that supports any religious belief. Holy books do not count.
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Would this count?

popemobile said:
Darwinism maybe, but calling atheism a religion is beyond stupid. Atheism is a response to claims of religion, nothing more.
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The term Darwinism is to be frank quite retarded, and considering people who believe in evolution a religion is just plain silly. That's like giving names to people who believe in the law of gravity or, for a more unconfirmed example, string theory. Evolution is a scientific theory with lots of merit behind it, and most likely to be true. Atheism is a religion. It's a belief that there's no God or any other higher being like that.
 
Mastadi said:
Would this count?
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There are a lot of theories that explain how the shroud of turin could have come about without any supernatural effects and it was carbon dated to the wrong period


Mastadi said:
The term Darwinism is to be frank quite retarded, and considering people who believe in evolution a religion is just plain silly. That's like giving names to people who believe in the law of gravity or, for a more unconfirmed example, string theory. Evolution is a scientific theory with lots of merit behind it, and most likely to be true. Atheism is a religion. It's a belief that there's no God or any other higher being like that.
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what you have described is gnostic atheism. most atheists however are agnostic atheists that is they lack a belief in go but do not necessarily believe that there is no god. Atheism is a religion the same way not watching baseball is a pastime
 
Mastadi said:
Would this count?
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are you kidding me

Atheism is a religion. It's a belief that there's no God or any other higher being like that.
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This is wrong. We went over this extensively in the texas education thread so I'll just link a post from there that explains it

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2731082&postcount=131

vonFiedler said:
Why even call it that. It's just a label for lacking a god or set of gods. Buddhists aren't theists, but they aren't reactionary. Atheism in your sense is no religion, but you sure do like to drink at the same water cooler.
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There is no dogma for atheism, no set of beliefs, no anything. The only thing that is common for all atheists is that they lack the belief of a god. If you want to call that a religion then fine but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone else to back you up on that
 
The Turin Shroud's age and exact nature are disputed. One interesting thing is certain though - the image wasn't created by it being a shroud, since if a body wrapped in a shroud did produce an effect where it contacted the shroud the resultant image would be distorted.

Also, a bit of a sidenote: there seems to be a general phenomenon that any apparent human image found unexpectedly in any item is identified as Jesus or Mary.

Mastadi said:
Atheism is a religion. It's a belief that there's no God or any other higher being like that.
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To call atheism a religion is like calling birds a species. "Atheism" is a term that covers a wide range of beliefs and outlooks, some organised and others personal views. Bhuddism is atheistic, there are atheistic branches of Hindusim, there is "Christian atheism" (following the teachings of Jesus on material matters while rejecting claims of his divinity and the existence of God), there is secular humanism, and so on.
 
popemobile said:
are you kidding me



This is wrong. We went over this extensively in the texas education thread so I'll just link a post from there that explains it

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2731082&postcount=131
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"I do not 'have faith that a god does not exist.'"
Wait, why does faith have to constitute a religion? Religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe; something one believes in

popemobile said:
There is no dogma for atheism, no set of beliefs, no anything. The only thing that is common for all atheists is that they lack the belief of a god. If you want to call that a religion then fine but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone else to back you up on that
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And atheism seems to be growing into a broader manifestation with the inclusion of Christian Atheism, humanistic Judaism, etc. which do have sets of beliefs and morals.
 
popemobile said:
are you kidding me
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You asked for proof supporting any theistic belief, I've gave you one. Yes, the validity of it is disputed but it still is an actual piece of evidence, which, if it is real, severely supports one of the major religions, providing a valid base for the belief.

This is wrong. We went over this extensively in the texas education thread so I'll just link a post from there that explains it

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2731082&postcount=131
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Ah, nvm then, must be a cultural difference then since we tend to label gnostic atheists just as atheists while any agnostic atheists are just called agnostics.
 
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