But what happens if they pack a scarf primeape to deal with scarf darkrai leads? If the team's that good with just "something else" as the 6th member, then packing scarf primeape would make dealing with lead scarf darkrai easy.
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The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"
- Thread starter Kir
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But what happens if they pack a scarf primeape to deal with scarf darkrai leads? If the team's that good with just "something else" as the 6th member, then packing scarf primeape would make dealing with lead scarf darkrai easy.
Brick Break Scizor.
I suppose it doesn't care about Deo lead too much because it's a suicide lead that doesn't kill you.
It BBs the Screens from Mewtwo and Zong; Mewtwo can't OHKO with Selfdestruct. Watch out for Hypnosis from Zong, though.
U-turn against Mew. Should chop >50% of Mew's health away. Make sure you U-turn to someone that can cut at its remaining health.
Btw Scarfrai isn't too reliable because Mew can outrun it after a Rock Polish. You can't expect people to always run 253 Speed Mew JUST to outrun Deo-S when Scarfrai is all the rage nowadays.
..not always the case.
Coming in on Groudon usually means coming in on sun though (defeating the point of 18% recovery b/c dry skin, unless you first switch kyogre or something (which is a waste of turns).
Empoleon, I had a pretty big thing typed up at first, but I erased it as Parasect's shortcomings should all be obvious to you. My question is, in what situations do any of those facts bear any relevancy? Why should I use Parasect over, say, Palkia, or even Celebi? It seems too niche and circumstantial to me.
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Since people are posting "things I've been using" and because this set is fucking amazing, I have a contribution myself. Rayquaza usage has dropped this month, and I'm noticing fewer than ever before, and I have no doubt it's because both SD and DD are having trouble setting up and sweeping. I figured this out about a month ago, and have been using this set on my team to great success:
Rayquaza @Life Orb
Hasty Nature
40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spd
-Draco Meteor
-Extreme Speed
-Outrage
-Fire Blast
Hardly anything new (it's in the analysis), but I've had much more success with Mixquaza in this metagame than any other variant. There are few things which set Mixquaza apart from Dialga and Palkia. This Ray always outspeeds +natured base 90s, which is a crux of the set. Draco Meteor is the main attack of the set, and it easily OHKOes near-anything that hasn't significantly invested in defenses or is steel. Even if you know I'm running Mixquaza, anything that can take a Draco Meteor does not like an Outrage coming off of LO and 346 Attack (or Fire Blast, which still easily kos Scizor, Forretress, and Metagross even after the drop; for that matter, after the DM drop, FB still OHKOs Scizor and Forry even when they're fresh). Assuming Palkia is holding a Life Orb and has 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spd spread, this Ray's Outrage hits for 25% more damage while still getting the same power from Draco Meteor. As a bonus, Extreme Speed is unique to Rayquaza, but it is usually used independently of the other moves, as Draco Meteor or Outrage KO most threats by themselves.
There are a few snags to watch out for with this set. Firstly, you'll almost always be outrun by enemy Rayquaza, although this is surprisingly not a common scenario (FYI, you still outrun max speed adamant, but that's not really helpful info lol). Allot of things still outrun you, but this is largely a non-issue since this set is tailored to hit-and-run (or suicide sweep). With SR out, nothing can switch safely into this set and survive, except for a fresh Lugia who narrowly hangs on with a few HP after the ES. I do not know if this applies to all Lugia.
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Since people are posting "things I've been using" and because this set is fucking amazing, I have a contribution myself. Rayquaza usage has dropped this month, and I'm noticing fewer than ever before, and I have no doubt it's because both SD and DD are having trouble setting up and sweeping. I figured this out about a month ago, and have been using this set on my team to great success:
Rayquaza @Life Orb
Hasty Nature
40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spd
-Draco Meteor
-Extreme Speed
-Outrage
-Fire Blast
Hardly anything new (it's in the analysis), but I've had much more success with Mixquaza in this metagame than any other variant. There are few things which set Mixquaza apart from Dialga and Palkia. This Ray always outspeeds +natured base 90s, which is a crux of the set. Draco Meteor is the main attack of the set, and it easily OHKOes near-anything that hasn't significantly invested in defenses or is steel. Even if you know I'm running Mixquaza, anything that can take a Draco Meteor does not like an Outrage coming off of LO and 346 Attack (or Fire Blast, which still easily kos Scizor, Forretress, and Metagross even after the drop; for that matter, after the DM drop, FB still OHKOs Scizor and Forry even when they're fresh). Assuming Palkia is holding a Life Orb and has 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spd spread, this Ray's Outrage hits for 25% more damage while still getting the same power from Draco Meteor. As a bonus, Extreme Speed is unique to Rayquaza, but it is usually used independently of the other moves, as Draco Meteor or Outrage KO most threats by themselves.
There are a few snags to watch out for with this set. Firstly, you'll almost always be outrun by enemy Rayquaza, although this is surprisingly not a common scenario (FYI, you still outrun max speed adamant, but that's not really helpful info lol). Allot of things still outrun you, but this is largely a non-issue since this set is tailored to hit-and-run (or suicide sweep). With SR out, nothing can switch safely into this set and survive, except for a fresh Lugia who narrowly hangs on with a few HP after the ES. I do not know if this applies to all Lugia.
Parasect is mainly there to get some surprise factor in the game, he's not as good as Celebi or Palkia, but he can double power extremely well.
=[ Sorry for making you type up a long thing only to erase it.
Mix-Quaza actually seems pretty interesting, I'd love to try it out sometime soon.
=[ Sorry for making you type up a long thing only to erase it.
Mix-Quaza actually seems pretty interesting, I'd love to try it out sometime soon.
I started playing Ubers recently, and I've found it to be a lot more interesting than OU. After a few days of playing, I made it to 24th on the ladder, but I'm lucky that Specs Dialga isn't as common. Had it been, I'd likely never reach that rank. Specs Dialga is REALLY powerful and isn't as common as I thought it'd be. A few favorites of mine are Bulk Up Dialga, SD Ray, and recently, darknessmalice's Scarf Mewtwo lead (it really works, try it out once in a while)
Ubers is a metagame I won't have much play time in, for now. The only possible problem that puts me off a bit is the prospects of nature hunting. Synchronizing grants a higher chance of the nature you want, but, to my knowledge, it does not impact IV's. Ever since I've joined Smogon (I've been lurking a much longer time) I've been almost fanatical about getting at least one perfect 31, much less a double or triple perfect. In my own experience, getting perfect 31's in ADV was much easier, even for legendaries, than it is to get in D/P.
Though I will say that it does allow for more unique pokes to come through than in standard OU play, the risks are higher.
BTW, Parasect? What in the world...? Now that was something I didn't expect but it looks surprisingly evil. This might have convinced me, when I ever do get to playing ubers, to actually use the guy.
Though I will say that it does allow for more unique pokes to come through than in standard OU play, the risks are higher.
BTW, Parasect? What in the world...? Now that was something I didn't expect but it looks surprisingly evil. This might have convinced me, when I ever do get to playing ubers, to actually use the guy.
When did you come up with that set?
Was it by yourself or did you make it after battling me?
Well, here's the set I am using:
@leftovers
248hp/96def/156sp.def/10atk
Adamant
Dry Skin
-Spore
-Stun Spore
-Seed Bomb
-Light Screen/X-scissor/Aromatherapy
The reasons this set is very viable in uber, are its typing (which seem bad in all metagame) and it's ability (Dry Skin). I'll start with the ability.
The ability allows it to take any choiced water attack from either Kyogore or Palkia. It not only absorb the damage and heal itself, it also force a switch. That means sporing time. Getting a pokemon sleep is that easy. Now if the pokemon isn't a sleep talker, they would like to switch. Now, it's stun sporing time. Getting 1/3 of a team status crippled in just two shakes of spores. After that, get the hell out of there if it's groundon or garchomp or rayquaza, especially groundon (its sun hurt Parascet, *cough*SunScreen*cough*.
Now onto it's typing. It's typing get absolutely owned by fire types (8 times weak due to Dry Skin). Grass is an awesome typing in Uber IMO, this helps the insect take the common thunder, from anything. Bug type help it take aura sphere, which is found in almost every uber's move pool. This also make an oppotunity for a switch in. The next thing is the huge 4 times ground resistance. Makes a great switch in to groundon even though the sun hurt it.
The evs allow it to be 2HKO by max+ scarf Kyogore's ice beam, 3HKO to 4HKO by specs Kyogore thunder, 5HKO by Specs Palkia Aura Sphere, 5HKO by CB Groundon's Earthquake, and 3HKO by uber trapper Scizor's Bullet Punch. There way more and I am not listing them all out.
The atk allows it to 3HKO 0/0 Groundon and 2HKO 252/0 kyogore 57% of the time. Seed bomb is to hit these two specifically. I can't think of any better attack that can work in uber (e.g. Pursuit is too weak, X-Scissor can hit Psychics and it's already an option).
Light Screen is to support the team on the special side, as the Uber team is speciall based, and Parasect doesn't get Reflect. Aromatherapy is to help with status.
It's more defensive oriented than yours.
SD+RP+BP Mew with dual screen support tends to dislike any random pokemon packing both brick break and explosion. Metagross is your friend; break his screens and his sub if any, then blow up whatever he passes to.
Azure Demon
Guest
I never ever have fun when i play ubers and its for the same reason everyone else listed its to easy to figure out what your opponet will do like every freaking body uses the same old bull shit kyoger lead and you know its gonna be scarfed. I get tired of see the same old shit thats why i dont play that teir and not just that i got so tired of playing ubers because i could rock em with UU pokes which showed me just how predictable it was. Just a heads up all uber teams need an iron fist adamant or jolly scarfted hitmonchan and poliwrath with water absorb.
I used to make it to where my opponet only had kyoger left and then put it in a position where it must water spout and have poliwrath play with the squirming fish or beach whale untill it used struggle, the ran, or i focused punched the living fuck out of it.
In ubers i feel the only unpredictable pokemon is Mew and mewtwo because they have the best move pool of all the pokes period point and blank
UU rocks socks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I used to make it to where my opponet only had kyoger left and then put it in a position where it must water spout and have poliwrath play with the squirming fish or beach whale untill it used struggle, the ran, or i focused punched the living fuck out of it.
In ubers i feel the only unpredictable pokemon is Mew and mewtwo because they have the best move pool of all the pokes period point and blank
UU rocks socks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I've only played 2v2 Ubers (Rock Polish Groudon + Cherrim is so awesome, and, while it's not the bulkiest thing around, I'm surprised at some of the things Cherrim survives), but from that I've really gotten interested in regular Ubers, although it does seem a bit intimidating (especially since I suck at singles).
^^^ No one uses Kyogre leads anymore. I think you need to play again sometime; its been mixed up a bit.
I have been using MixQuaza recently and he is pretty damn good, 1hkoing most Groudon and a hell lot more. Only Lugia can switch in and threaten, but I have T-Wave Groudon for that.
I've found Heatran very useful on my team for handling stuff like Specs Dialga. And under the sun, Fire Blast is pretty good.
EDIT: Wow, Heatran is a pretty amazing wall. He stops Latias, Lugia, Latios, and many others right in their tracks, and can toxic them to their death. He can really take Dragon hits very well. Really sweet in the sun, not even 2hkoed by Scarf Palkia Surf!
I have been using MixQuaza recently and he is pretty damn good, 1hkoing most Groudon and a hell lot more. Only Lugia can switch in and threaten, but I have T-Wave Groudon for that.
I've found Heatran very useful on my team for handling stuff like Specs Dialga. And under the sun, Fire Blast is pretty good.
EDIT: Wow, Heatran is a pretty amazing wall. He stops Latias, Lugia, Latios, and many others right in their tracks, and can toxic them to their death. He can really take Dragon hits very well. Really sweet in the sun, not even 2hkoed by Scarf Palkia Surf!
Since you mentioned it, I'll go ahead and talk about BP in Ubers.
BP in Ubers is, honestly, nearly unstoppable. My team is so gross I can stall out people until I decide I want to win. Mew is absolutly unbelievable, and I can tell from my experience with it in ubers, that it should never make OU ever. Amnesia is what makes Mew so good, and it combines with another team member to COMPLETELY wall Darkari and Kyorge. Throw is some Stealth Rock on your team, and it really is a messed up combination.
Obviously I don't want to give away all of what I've learn (and I'll include most of it in my guide rewrite), so if anybody wants to learn some more go ahead and PM me.
On non-BP related subjects, I have found the Uber metagame to be one of the more fun metagames out there. Ubers incourages creativity, and the prediction that occurs is high level and it is very fun as well. I always enjoy myself.
Also, I went ahead and removed the quotes around signature lol.
Uber Baton Teams, though difficult to make, are extremely worth it. The play known as Theorymon had this combo set up, where he would get his opponent to use a Ghost Move, or lock his opponent into a status move with Wobb, then switch to Smeargle (after he safeguarded) and then presume to set up a Belly Pass to a Rayquaza which can 6-0 everything. Though iffy in actual game play, the thought of it was quite outstanding.
What I actually find extremely interesting is Uber Stall teams. I've seen effective ones, and they are usually based around Forretress and Giratina (solid wall combo) but I can never play them correctly. It might be my game play styale I guess. Though, I've been considering using Magnezone in Ubers to counter Uber Stall, and Bulk Up Dialgas to an extent.
What I actually find extremely interesting is Uber Stall teams. I've seen effective ones, and they are usually based around Forretress and Giratina (solid wall combo) but I can never play them correctly. It might be my game play styale I guess. Though, I've been considering using Magnezone in Ubers to counter Uber Stall, and Bulk Up Dialgas to an extent.
I've had good success in OU and UU and I intend to have a go at ubers soon. There is just a couple of things that have put me off:
1) How long does it usually take to get a match?
2) Do you end up playing the same people a lot?
3) I wouldn't even know where to start, I'll probably ask Stauffen for some help here :).
1) How long does it usually take to get a match?
2) Do you end up playing the same people a lot?
3) I wouldn't even know where to start, I'll probably ask Stauffen for some help here :).
^^^^
1. Yes, it can be hard to find a match. However, if you do announce it in chat, some people can show up.
2. Yes, you do end up playing the same people a lot. Be prepared for some intense mind games.
3. Ubers is probably less about making a great team than it is about you predicting and playing well. Generally, it just takes a decent team with no glaring weaknesses. It really isn't too hard to make a solid team, since all the pokemon are really great and you just need to synergize them a bit.
You should probably start by setting up a good lead, then continue from there.
And yes, Baton Passing teams are HELL. If I don't know whether my opponent is running a baton pass team, I will probably lose. If I do know, I have a chance (I beat Theorymon most of the time :D). But Mew is an absolutely terrifying Baton Passer, and when I see him, I know I had better put my thinking cap on. If you do end up facing one, SpecsKyogre is a great switch in. Just fire off Ice Beams, as they hit most of the most popular sweepers (Groudon/Rayquaza) super effective and very very hard.
Actually, the scariest thing I have faced is a NPed Dialga. Absolutely vicious, that dragon pulse combined with his speed is absolutely ridiculous. And since his weaknesses are EQ and Fighting, nothing can really hit him SE without eating a big can of ass whoop. But then again, I don't have Blissey. But even Blissey is 2hkoed by a +2 LO Aura Sphere from Modest Dialga. However, it seems that most of these Baton pass recipients don't pack LO, since they need to avoid getting KOed by priority.
I love Heatran under the sun. Fire Blast is sweet, but more importantly, he doesn't even get 2hkoed by Scarf Palkia's Surf if rocks aren't up! Same goes with Aura Sphere. Truly awesome tank. Too bad he draws in Kyogre like a magnet.
1. Yes, it can be hard to find a match. However, if you do announce it in chat, some people can show up.
2. Yes, you do end up playing the same people a lot. Be prepared for some intense mind games.
3. Ubers is probably less about making a great team than it is about you predicting and playing well. Generally, it just takes a decent team with no glaring weaknesses. It really isn't too hard to make a solid team, since all the pokemon are really great and you just need to synergize them a bit.
You should probably start by setting up a good lead, then continue from there.
And yes, Baton Passing teams are HELL. If I don't know whether my opponent is running a baton pass team, I will probably lose. If I do know, I have a chance (I beat Theorymon most of the time :D). But Mew is an absolutely terrifying Baton Passer, and when I see him, I know I had better put my thinking cap on. If you do end up facing one, SpecsKyogre is a great switch in. Just fire off Ice Beams, as they hit most of the most popular sweepers (Groudon/Rayquaza) super effective and very very hard.
Actually, the scariest thing I have faced is a NPed Dialga. Absolutely vicious, that dragon pulse combined with his speed is absolutely ridiculous. And since his weaknesses are EQ and Fighting, nothing can really hit him SE without eating a big can of ass whoop. But then again, I don't have Blissey. But even Blissey is 2hkoed by a +2 LO Aura Sphere from Modest Dialga. However, it seems that most of these Baton pass recipients don't pack LO, since they need to avoid getting KOed by priority.
I love Heatran under the sun. Fire Blast is sweet, but more importantly, he doesn't even get 2hkoed by Scarf Palkia's Surf if rocks aren't up! Same goes with Aura Sphere. Truly awesome tank. Too bad he draws in Kyogre like a magnet.
1) Most of teams are hyper-offensive or balanced one, so matches don't last too long. The most important thing is prediction and stopping stat-upper is even more important then in other tiers. One mistake (sometimes ONE round is enough) and deadly sweepers like Rayquaza or Groudon have a field day. But stall is possible (and if well built deadly effective) and beating combinations like Forretress - Blissey - Giratina - Lugia is hard as hell.
2) Unfortunately yes, but in evenings it doesn't looks that bad.
3) Most leads are fast scarf users (Trick MewTwo, ScarfDarkrai) or Deoxys-S. Sometimes you can meet bulky leads like Dialga or Groudon. In Ubers some gimmicks works surprisingly well (I'm using Quagsire in one of my teams and he do it's job quite well) or CB Seaking, which may dent almost anything with Megahorn/Waterfall combo and it's much easier to surprise opponent with some sets, which aren't used too often for some strange reasons (for example SubPunching Palkia is beastly wall breaker and everyone expects Scarf versions or SpecsPalkia). Having steel pokemon is quite important with all those powerfull dragon attacks. But it's true - it's easier to built a good team in ubers then in other tiers.
Mew is a lot easier to stop than most people think, especially in DPPT. I'd like to say I've probably made the "best" Ubers BP team possible after months of tweaking and the like, a couple people have probably seen it in action and even now I'm finding new ways around it, some a bit unorthadox but reliable regardless. Personally I think Mew is a bit overrated these days in Ubers, it's definitely good, but also overrated.
Also I invite everyone to give SD Absol, SD Lucario and Honchcrow a try in Ubers. All three of them are really good :)
Maniac did I get to see your BP team in action? I don't recall (unless it was that one which you threw against me). And where have you been?
Anyways, what's cool in ubers is the predictability of things, which gives room to take advantage. Ironic how when massive movepools and stats combine, the end results are the same thing over and over again. I mean look at Kyogre-a lot of the time it will be Choiced, and now people are taking advantage of it. People probably have been taking advantage of it in the past few months but it's so dangerous no one bothered to change.
- What you can call gimmick now may not be gimmick sometime in the future. We've gotten a glimpse of the new Parasect, and few people are using Quagsire. These might still be gimmicks now, but they could either become threats or become more gimmicky.
- Scarf Darkrai is too common, as as lead it's everywhere. Take advantage of it, and it will go down.
However, I'd like to congratulate several of those who've managed to use something new. The uber metagame is finally evolving I guess, something which I wished a few months ago (after talking to Absol, at least). We're beginning to see people use different things, like Sub punch Palkia, Dual Boost Groudon, Mix Rayquaza, Haban Berry [Palkia/Rayquaza], Parasect, Quagsire, Absol, Lucario, Honchkrow, and maybe even Specs Lugia and Special Defensive Giratina (who beats Scarf Dialga one on one). It doesn't really have to be effective (but obviously there has to be some form of effectiveness), but you'll never know when some creativity will cause a huge metagame change (Suicide Deo leads, anyone?)
I'm planning on testing Skarmory in ubers. I have done that before, and he's pretty decent. Though I haven't used him a whole lot though. Inviting Kyogre in for nearly free is annoying, though. But Toxic can prove to be annoying for the whale.
Now one thing remains...how will the metagame be impacted upon Arceus' release? We can almost be certain it will be released (12th movie trailer shows a sparkly object, and upon closeup it resembles Arceus' rings). Will Arceus take over Kyogre's #1 spot?
Also Heatran reminded me of when Seph switched his Specs Heatran in on my Giratina's Will-o-Wisp and then burned it to death with Specs Flash Fire Sunny Overheat (did 80% damage).
Unfortunately I don't have a whole lot to say today, so that's all.
EDIT: Pokebeach just said Arceus will be in the 12th movie by deciphering a calendar. So we can safely assume it will be released.
Anyways, what's cool in ubers is the predictability of things, which gives room to take advantage. Ironic how when massive movepools and stats combine, the end results are the same thing over and over again. I mean look at Kyogre-a lot of the time it will be Choiced, and now people are taking advantage of it. People probably have been taking advantage of it in the past few months but it's so dangerous no one bothered to change.
- What you can call gimmick now may not be gimmick sometime in the future. We've gotten a glimpse of the new Parasect, and few people are using Quagsire. These might still be gimmicks now, but they could either become threats or become more gimmicky.
- Scarf Darkrai is too common, as as lead it's everywhere. Take advantage of it, and it will go down.
However, I'd like to congratulate several of those who've managed to use something new. The uber metagame is finally evolving I guess, something which I wished a few months ago (after talking to Absol, at least). We're beginning to see people use different things, like Sub punch Palkia, Dual Boost Groudon, Mix Rayquaza, Haban Berry [Palkia/Rayquaza], Parasect, Quagsire, Absol, Lucario, Honchkrow, and maybe even Specs Lugia and Special Defensive Giratina (who beats Scarf Dialga one on one). It doesn't really have to be effective (but obviously there has to be some form of effectiveness), but you'll never know when some creativity will cause a huge metagame change (Suicide Deo leads, anyone?)
I'm planning on testing Skarmory in ubers. I have done that before, and he's pretty decent. Though I haven't used him a whole lot though. Inviting Kyogre in for nearly free is annoying, though. But Toxic can prove to be annoying for the whale.
Now one thing remains...how will the metagame be impacted upon Arceus' release? We can almost be certain it will be released (12th movie trailer shows a sparkly object, and upon closeup it resembles Arceus' rings). Will Arceus take over Kyogre's #1 spot?
Also Heatran reminded me of when Seph switched his Specs Heatran in on my Giratina's Will-o-Wisp and then burned it to death with Specs Flash Fire Sunny Overheat (did 80% damage).
Unfortunately I don't have a whole lot to say today, so that's all.
EDIT: Pokebeach just said Arceus will be in the 12th movie by deciphering a calendar. So we can safely assume it will be released.
Yes its that same one but I made some changes to it.
Personally, I've always found it surprising just how Prevalent Choice Scarf is on Palkia. IMO, it really cuts Palkia's attacking capabilities and Versatility. I think Palkia is better off with an SpAtk raising move like Choice Specs or Lustrous Orb.
And I too find it surprising there aren't more Choice Specs Drago Meteors flying around in Ubers from Latios, Dialga, Palkia, and Rayquaza (strongest Draco Meteor in the game) since they devestate almost anything in any tier.
And I too find it surprising there aren't more Choice Specs Drago Meteors flying around in Ubers from Latios, Dialga, Palkia, and Rayquaza (strongest Draco Meteor in the game) since they devestate almost anything in any tier.
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