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The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"
- Thread starter Kir
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All I can say is fuck uber stall.
This is the one thing in Ubers that I have never beaten (well maybe poorly played ones). It usually is based around a Forretress and a Giratina defensive combo, then with supporters like Latias and Blissey. The player usually starts by getting Stealth Rock down, and then finding an opening to get Forretress in. Forretress then either lays down Toxic Spikes or regular spikes. Specs Kyoges Water Spout is weakened, and then wall breaking becomes harder. It's hard to actually define Uber Stall as there isn't a "best" one like Obi's OU team. Though I can tell you that most Uber stall will be based around Giratina and Forretress with a Blissey thrown in.
With some good prediction, MixQuaza can tear through something like that. It is very very difficult, but consider LO Draco Meteor KOs Giratina, Fire Blast for Forry, and Outrage KOs Latias, 2HKOs Blissey.
Needs good prediction though. Although actually, MixDialga would do even better, since Latias is less of a threat.
Actually, Dual Screen Mewtwo is HORRIBLE to deal with. Easily one of the best walls for one thing; speed. Once he gets in, GL taking him out.
I ran Dragon Pulse to very limited success. Heatran either didn't hit hard, or Kyogre came in. To be honest. Kyogre is the main answer to Heatran, I'd use Hidden Power [GRASS] for the sole reason. If you really want you can run Dragon Pulse, but HP has done better for me over testing periods.
Well all I know is I get wrecked by an Uber stall team that had Kyogre / Qwilfish / Manaphy / Forretress / Giratina / ????. That thing pissed me off soo much. They set up Toxic Spikes with Qwilfish, abusing Swift Swim and a Focus Sash to ensure two layers. After that Forretress came in and set up a layer of Spikes, switching out to defensive walls when necessary. They alternated the process until my grounded sweepers were all poisoned and taking 37.5% every switchin plus the poison damage. This wasn't good at all as my teams's main wallbreaker is SpecsOgre, but boy did I wish I had MixQuaza. I guess that is another reason why I chose to add Toxicroak to my team :)
Hmm perhaps the ubers tour will make it more popular. Some great matches. I lost to hax at rd 3 though :(
I don't find it too hard.
The typical stall team is Groudon, Forretress, Latias, Giratina, Lugia, Blissey. Forretress is the key to the team; and it is crucial that it sets up Spikes and Tspikes. Otherwise, there is little attacking power in the team. Yet it is essentially a free switch-in for any pokemon; it rarely sends out random Gyro Balls, and Explosion is only used late game, for Forry has to set up those dam entry hazards. Latias still loses a big chunk of HP from Specs Water Spout (everything does except those immune to it and a lol SDef specialised Palkia). And once Lugia and Groudon are sufficiently damaged, once Rayquaza gets a DD up, it can easily sweep through this team. Only a bit of residual damage is needed to make SR and +1 LO Outrage a OHKO on Lugia and Groudon. As for swapping Forry, I just predict the switch-in and Overheat, removing the one Dragon Resist pokemon.
On that topic though, I find Blissey incredibly useful in Ubers. So many hard special attackers in Ubers, and she walls them to death, save SpecsOgre. She is, by far, the best Choice Palkia/Dialga counter in the game Aromtherapy support is handy to remove Darkrai's Sleep and Thunder's paralysis that cripples so many Ubers. She has Thunderwave (paralysis is so good). And sure, Groudon is a free switch-in to anything save Toxic, but I can counterpredict.
Blissey is one of the best pokemon in Ubers, though my friend has been using an Empoleon to a great extent at countering Palkia. Though it hopes that Palkia isn't running Aura Sphere (but Empoleon has a good SpDef). Yeah So I think Empoleon can work similarly to Heatran, maybe with an added kick of getting STAB Surf in the rain ^__^
Wouldn't Palkia have Thunder? And how would Empoleon hit Palkia back? Grass Knot? HP Dragon? Empoleon only has a chance if it gets in on a locked Dragon attack or a locked Water attack when not in Rain.
Heatran can also come in on locked Dragon attacks with better stats in everything, and hit back with Dragon Pulse should he use it. And if Kyogre wants to come in, Heatran can explode.
Explosion is probably the main reason why it is superior to Empoleon. With a LO (which I strongly recommend), it can score a OHKO with Explosion on Kyogre, Rayquaza, Palkia, Mewtwo, Blissey and the list goes on. The most common pokemon that will survive Explosion (Groudon) will always take over 50% damage unless it is very specially bulky.
In the past I used Trick Room and I need to say it - it's effective, but finding free turns for Trick Room is hard as hell with all those hard hitting pokemon. You would be surprised how deadly Sunflora is under Trick Room and Sun (and thanks to Groudon it's much easier to do), Solar Power Leaf Storm is pure power, 652 Attack with Life Orb and sun sounds quite scary and having power like SpecsOgre without being locked in one attack is smexy. Recoil isn't good news, but still it's more then good enough. Only Blissey and Defensive Heatran stops that fella (really defensive Latias is also fine, but with that power even Sludge Bomb hurts). Only that Sunfloras movepool... Anyway I prefer to use stragy 2 Trick Roomers - 2 fast sweepers (one may be the scarfer)- 2 slow sweepers. With that you have an answer in any situation. I need to create new team like this, it was effective in old days.
I agree, I thought about putting somewhere Jumpluff in one of my Groudon teams. It's that good and annoying. And with sun it hits sick levels of speed. With max speed and +speed nature it hits... 700 speed. And with Encore it's even more annoying. I agree, it's one of those UU pokemon, which deserve some love even in Ubers.
Why would you need to reach 700 Speed? MAybe you want to outspeed non +nature Scarf Deoxys-s ?_?.
I would just put the EVs in HP, Def and Sp.Def instead of investing in speed since 5xx speed (neutral nature and no speed evs, can't figure out the exact number since i'm lazy) is enough to outspeed shit.
I would just put the EVs in HP, Def and Sp.Def instead of investing in speed since 5xx speed (neutral nature and no speed evs, can't figure out the exact number since i'm lazy) is enough to outspeed shit.
Of course I know it ;). I just write how godlike speed it can reach. Anyway, I don't think that max speed is bad idea. If your Groudon dies and Kyogre or TTar comes in ruining your sun, those Speed EVs may save you, as even without sun Jumpluff is fast. Jumpluff even with defensive EVs won't take many hits anyway, especially in Ubers when many things will kill you in one shot anyway.
Trick Scarfrai hurts a lot of stall teams in general. Puts one member to sleep and then cripples another one with a Scarf. 'course, outside of defensive teams, Scarfrai is hurt a bit by the fact that it only has 2 attacking moves, usually Dark Pulse and Focus Blast, not leaving much in the way of coverage, which is very important in Ubers.
After reading this thread, I've decided to get back into ubers, and I've found that Scarf Garchomp is an absolutely fantastic late-game cleaner. It outspeeds most Scarfers (barring crazy shit like Mewtwo and Darkrai) and every non-Scarfer except Deoxys-S. I usually try to eliminate Groudon or Lugia, then I can just Dragon Claw/Outrage my way to victory.
Yea its a real thorn on ur team huh?
Fuck up Deoxys, outspeed Dialga AFTER +2
anyways the other problem that it has besides not alot of coverage, is the fact that it doesnt hit hard at all.
I mean, unless you go Modest, you actually cant 2HKO Giratina, and you need SR for Lugia, altho neither is switching in anytime soon.
other than that, you cant do anything to support Don.
You definitely cant 2HKO Palkia with Dark Pulse, and you have no hope Vs Kyogre
And, you basically have to go Timid because otherwise you lose vs RP Don, DD Latios, or Baton Pass Mews that try to get cute...
So in my opinion, there are two ScarfDarkrais that are viable.
One of them is:
ScarfDarkrai, Modest @ Rend/DPulse/Void/ [Ice Beam(Groudon)/Thunder(Kyogre)]
Thats serves better as a revenger, as you still outrun Scarf Palkia and ScarfGarchomp, and Modest gives you the boost to beat some stuff that Timid cant.
The other one is:
ScarfDarkrai, Timid @ Trick/Void/Pulse/ [Rend/Focus Blast]
This lets you cripple stall teams, but you cant revenge kill as well unless they're like 30% or lower or that you can hit them for super effective damage. I actually think Rend is the better option over Focus Blast here because if you think about it, the only thing Focus Blast is really hitting is Dialga, and any sensible person will not stay in relying on 70% accuracy, where if you miss you're dead.
Focus Blast is an AWFUL move in Ubers, since if you miss....you die, since most users of FBlast are quite "frail."
And Scarchomp is quite vicious, because that extra 2 base speed really makes him so good at tearing stuff up with that Outrage. Palkia wishes it had 102 base speed.
And Scarchomp is quite vicious, because that extra 2 base speed really makes him so good at tearing stuff up with that Outrage. Palkia wishes it had 102 base speed.
I wouldn't say that Focus Blast is a bad move, it's just a high risk/high reward move that enables you to 1HKO - 2HKO certain threats.
ScarfChomp isn't the only variant that pwns, I have been getting success with the SubSalac SD set as well.
We're talking about Stall teams here, no need to bring in your irrational and, frankly, immature hatred of me into any discussion I'm in.
Especially potent with the fact that Dragon/Ground hits everything in the game for neutral except Flying/Levitating Steels such as Bronzong and Skarmory, both of which are usually absent on Uber teams, and Shedinja, who is easily taken care of with Stealth Rock.
Still, as with most Sub+Pinch Berry users, runs the risk of getting outprioritized (Scizor+Metagross Bullet Punch, Rayquaza's Extremespeed) or running into Lugia. Groudon isn't OHKO'd by +2 Outrage either.
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