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Theorymon Discussion and Viability Ranking
- Thread starter Chou Toshio
- Start date
what if secret power was a physical hidden power?
Kyurem gets a physical ice/fire move. Stuff like gyrados/haxorus can run physical hp fire instead of getting walled etc. I don't think it would be as bad as hidden power since physical walls have intimidate and physical sweepers can be burned.
Kyurem gets a physical ice/fire move. Stuff like gyrados/haxorus can run physical hp fire instead of getting walled etc. I don't think it would be as bad as hidden power since physical walls have intimidate and physical sweepers can be burned.
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Seeing as how HP is one of the most broken moves in the game, I'd say that would be a huge change, making many things amazing. Imagine a Haxorus with perfect 2 move coverage, even against Heatran, a Cube with an extra physical move (no need for HP Fire, here comes one coming off of 170 base Atk), and many more. Seriously, this would just be incredible.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
What if Mew got Sketch Twice or Once to match it's legend of knowing all moves true?
So guys, I'm pretty sure all of us have read at least 1 of mew's dex entries, and we all know how it says it's the ancestor of all pokemon and how it can access near every damn move. So how does this match up in actual game play? meh, CLOSE but it's still missing a huge ass amount of moves.
Meet SketchMew
With learning Sketch even only once Mew could do so much more, i.e. sketch Spore for NP + Spore or NP + Psystrike, but I think what we're really all looking at is SmashMew
Set: Smash Mew
Mew @ Life Orb / White Herb / Lum Berry
Sketched Move: Shell Smash
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SAtk / 116 HP / 136 Spd
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Psyshock
- Aura Sphere / Thunder (against or using rain teams)
- Roost / Dark Pulse / Baton Pass
What this set lets Mew do is, well as you see, become a threatening shell smash sweeper, these EVs and nature let mew outspeed the entire boosted and unboosted metagame (4 points away from adamant sand rush excadrill's speed , so yeah, that shit is fast) and still have enough bulk to survive surprisingly a lot of hits before a shell smash, and even AFTER a shell smash, this would make Mew so much more threatening, as it could outspeed every scarfer and reg. poke and hit htem really hard with modest LO +2 psyshock, move over modest venusaur, we have a new threat to take your place (the EVs will outspeed modest venu under the sun, but unless you decide to go timid, hasty or timid venu in sun is outspeeding you)
Yeah, so we know this thing is powerful, not only would this let mew destroy teams with shell smash, but it would make it a hell of an annoying bulky rapid spinner too, it could even set up full spikes + SR with spikes/SR/roost/baton pass (fuk pursuit), etc. I think Mew's uniqueness and large ass pre-existing movepool makes it an excellent user of 1 or 2 time use sketch, 100/100/100 bulk and a rapid spinner that isn't ground/steel type? yes pls :]. Mew would overall really enjoy 1 time sketch, as it would make mew a hell of a threat as well, this would of course make mew higher than UU, probably OU, maybe uber but in the end. But this is only 1 time sketch, Depending on how broken it might be, 2 time sketch definitely has a chance of being broke af, but I think 1 time sketch would be a huge threat, but not broke, anyway
SketchMew 4 best mon 2013. no more need for forretress, use spin SR roost mew
So guys, I'm pretty sure all of us have read at least 1 of mew's dex entries, and we all know how it says it's the ancestor of all pokemon and how it can access near every damn move. So how does this match up in actual game play? meh, CLOSE but it's still missing a huge ass amount of moves.
Meet SketchMew
With learning Sketch even only once Mew could do so much more, i.e. sketch Spore for NP + Spore or NP + Psystrike, but I think what we're really all looking at is SmashMew
Set: Smash Mew
Mew @ Life Orb / White Herb / Lum Berry
Sketched Move: Shell Smash
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SAtk / 116 HP / 136 Spd
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Psyshock
- Aura Sphere / Thunder (against or using rain teams)
- Roost / Dark Pulse / Baton Pass
What this set lets Mew do is, well as you see, become a threatening shell smash sweeper, these EVs and nature let mew outspeed the entire boosted and unboosted metagame (4 points away from adamant sand rush excadrill's speed , so yeah, that shit is fast) and still have enough bulk to survive surprisingly a lot of hits before a shell smash, and even AFTER a shell smash, this would make Mew so much more threatening, as it could outspeed every scarfer and reg. poke and hit htem really hard with modest LO +2 psyshock, move over modest venusaur, we have a new threat to take your place (the EVs will outspeed modest venu under the sun, but unless you decide to go timid, hasty or timid venu in sun is outspeeding you)
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Jellicent: 398-468 (98.51 - 115.84%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Dark Pulse vs. 74 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 330-390 (103.44 - 122.25%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 330-390 (90.65 - 107.14%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 304-359 (75.24 - 88.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 304-359 (86.36 - 101.98%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (rain check ferro dies :])
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 411-485 (58.38 - 68.89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Dark Pulse vs. 74 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 330-390 (103.44 - 122.25%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 330-390 (90.65 - 107.14%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 304-359 (75.24 - 88.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 304-359 (86.36 - 101.98%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (rain check ferro dies :])
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Mew Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 411-485 (58.38 - 68.89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, so we know this thing is powerful, not only would this let mew destroy teams with shell smash, but it would make it a hell of an annoying bulky rapid spinner too, it could even set up full spikes + SR with spikes/SR/roost/baton pass (fuk pursuit), etc. I think Mew's uniqueness and large ass pre-existing movepool makes it an excellent user of 1 or 2 time use sketch, 100/100/100 bulk and a rapid spinner that isn't ground/steel type? yes pls :]. Mew would overall really enjoy 1 time sketch, as it would make mew a hell of a threat as well, this would of course make mew higher than UU, probably OU, maybe uber but in the end. But this is only 1 time sketch, Depending on how broken it might be, 2 time sketch definitely has a chance of being broke af, but I think 1 time sketch would be a huge threat, but not broke, anyway
SketchMew 4 best mon 2013. no more need for forretress, use spin SR roost mew
Excluding the gen6 honedge(not there YET) outrage+superpower provides perfect coverage
Assuming the max power still was 70, Flareon would get a better Physical STAB attack.
SHED- Fuck mold breaker
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
BP is meh right now, you can perish song literally any BP user and just ruin their day, especialy since BP passes perish in gen 5, I think people just like to look at the negetive impact way too much
lol
hadn't counted that but w/e
also fire punch+outrage also provides perfect coverage, even with honedge then
And you couldn't before? I guess u learn something new everyday. Still mew would be a big threat with sketch with its sheer unpredictability. You wouldn't be able to guess the set just by knowing its item or a move.Wish gf gave one as an event.
Except for Heatran c:
Actually Specs Gothitelle can deal with the common Perish Song users quite easily, Celebi takes a huge amount of damage as it tries to BP out, and Politoed is 2HKO'ed by Thunderbolt. I've used it on a team with Gorebyss and Perish Song wasn't ever really a problem. And I guess there's also Mr. Mime...
Mold Breaker hits through Flash Fire
Mr. Mime says hi (Mr. Mime is needed for full BP because it has B-Pass + sound immunity)
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
Regardless, BP isn't broken because of mew, Mew barely adds much to the BP chain, sure it's a good BPer, but full BP in general is hard to run because most teams are getting KOd before they can even get a reciever in or something along those lines, if mew breaks the chain by making the recipients have even less bulk due to ssmash, then well I'll be darned
Alright, here's another ability metagame:
What if you could choose whether to use each ability or not?
This means that you can run 0, 1, 2, or 3 abilities. This would really benefit a lot of mons (Slaking, Regigigas, Archeops), since they don't have to run their bad abilities. There's also mons in the same boat as Heracross (Guts+Moxie+Swarm) or Conkeldurr (Guts+Iron Fist+Sheer Force) who still love using all three abilities.
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Swarm Heracross Megahorn vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 150-176 (45.87 - 53.82%) -- 97.66% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
*gulp*
252+ Atk Life Orb Guts Iron Fist Sheer Force Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 164-194 (50.15 - 59.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
yikes
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Swarm Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 327-384 (92.89 - 109.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.
This is just insane...
What if you could choose whether to use each ability or not?
This means that you can run 0, 1, 2, or 3 abilities. This would really benefit a lot of mons (Slaking, Regigigas, Archeops), since they don't have to run their bad abilities. There's also mons in the same boat as Heracross (Guts+Moxie+Swarm) or Conkeldurr (Guts+Iron Fist+Sheer Force) who still love using all three abilities.
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Swarm Heracross Megahorn vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 150-176 (45.87 - 53.82%) -- 97.66% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
*gulp*
252+ Atk Life Orb Guts Iron Fist Sheer Force Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 164-194 (50.15 - 59.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
yikes
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Swarm Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 327-384 (92.89 - 109.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.
This is just insane...
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
"Slaking, Regigigas, Archeops" all of these pokemon only have 1 abillity, you don't have a choice not to run their bad abilities
What if Sigilyph got Unaware?
Its CM and Stored Power sets become more devestating
Its CM and Stored Power sets become more devestating
Sigilyph relies on Magic Guard to keep it from being status'd.
What if Infernape, Blaziken, Torterra, Hydreigon or Dragonite had Contrary?
As powerful as this ability is, I'd really like to see it used strategically as opposed to the simple "spam Draco-Meteor-esque move".
All of these Pokes have access to one of Overheat/Leaf Storm/Draco Meteor as well as Superpower. This would mean they have access to mixed wall breaking capabilities as well as boosting in their stat of choice. Superpower is interesting in that it makes you respectably tankier against priority and phys hits for a bulky set-up sweep, whereas the other move means you break walls harder by boosting faster. Might be interesting for Scarfed sets, who knows.
Then again, knowing the power of Contrary, it's definitely easy to see that it might be just way too much, and it could easily get out of hand. However, on some other weaker Pokes it might just be balanced in that manner.
Emboar (Superpower, Hammer Arm, Overheat)
Simisear (Superpower, Overheat)
Simisage (Superpower, Leaf Storm)
Arcanine (Close Combat?, Overheat) - tank boosting Arcanine?
I think the idea of these sets bring mixed attackers to a whole new light. 4MSS and EV distribution was always a hassle for mixed attackers, but with Contrary they get so much out of their limited attacks. They get sweeping potential, better wall-breaking, boosting set-up, and the ability to constantly apply pressure since they don't necessarily waste a turn setting up.
As powerful as this ability is, I'd really like to see it used strategically as opposed to the simple "spam Draco-Meteor-esque move".
All of these Pokes have access to one of Overheat/Leaf Storm/Draco Meteor as well as Superpower. This would mean they have access to mixed wall breaking capabilities as well as boosting in their stat of choice. Superpower is interesting in that it makes you respectably tankier against priority and phys hits for a bulky set-up sweep, whereas the other move means you break walls harder by boosting faster. Might be interesting for Scarfed sets, who knows.
Then again, knowing the power of Contrary, it's definitely easy to see that it might be just way too much, and it could easily get out of hand. However, on some other weaker Pokes it might just be balanced in that manner.
Emboar (Superpower, Hammer Arm, Overheat)
Simisear (Superpower, Overheat)
Simisage (Superpower, Leaf Storm)
Arcanine (Close Combat?, Overheat) - tank boosting Arcanine?
I think the idea of these sets bring mixed attackers to a whole new light. 4MSS and EV distribution was always a hassle for mixed attackers, but with Contrary they get so much out of their limited attacks. They get sweeping potential, better wall-breaking, boosting set-up, and the ability to constantly apply pressure since they don't necessarily waste a turn setting up.
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Theorymoning about abilities like simple and contrary is hard because:
a) literally anything works with them flavor-wise
b) These abilities are almost unavoidably broken on any Pokemon that's already good and has the movepool to abuse them.
a) literally anything works with them flavor-wise
b) These abilities are almost unavoidably broken on any Pokemon that's already good and has the movepool to abuse them.