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Tier Shift Metagame (THIS IS BW)

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Hail getting you down? No problem! Pack a Cobalion!
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96Hp/95Atk/135Def/95SpA/77SpD/113Spe
Blizzard Resist, Good bulk, Super Effective Stab, and swords Dance for those gosh darn Walreins and Regices.
 
I have been testing out trick room as well and LO Escavalier is probably a mon that I'm not gonna drop from the team anymore, it rips teams apart. It has an easy time switching in, 2HKOes most of the tier and is hardly OHKOed by anything that isn't a Fire-attack. I just wish it had some other attacks to play around with.

I also played a Banded and a Sub/Expert Belt Rhyperior, I found it not as useful as LO Escavalier when I ran both on the same team tho but it does have potential.

Also: Harvest Tropius is a fun thing to play with in this tier; it has 114/98/102 defenses. I actually put it on my TR team so that it can setup what it needs and boy this guy can stall. I didnt even use Sun, 50% chance gets you far enough, I actually found it very strong vs Rain teams. Works perfectly with T-Spike support.


Either way it's hard (not to mention impossible) to cover all threats in this meta. Especially weather is hard, mostly because a lot of NU-pokes have weather-related abilities. But if Drizzle/Drought/Sandstream was present in NU these pokes would never ever be NU.
 
Dudebro, there are two Pokemon that simply pick apart rain and sun teams. Electrode (I think) can take a hit from any swift swimmer faster than him and KO with Thunder/Thunderbolt. He can KO anything slower sans Armaldo. (Due to it not actually being water type)

The one I have more math done on is Ninjask countering sun teams. Check back a page or two, I practically wrote a book on it.

Hmm... I wonder if Altaria is viable now with Cloud Nine. I'll have to test that out.
 
The thing I dont get about some of these posts is that Drizzleswim is still banned and manual rain dance still isn't very good.

Also Ninjask can outspeed some things but thats a bit different than reliably KOing them.
 
Check the math. I did the calculations for literally every chlorophyll user. Ninjask OHKOs all but Tangrowth, Tangela, and Leafeon with SR up, and most without it up. Tangrowth and Leafeon are cleanly 2HKO'd by a combination of U-Turn and X-Scissor. Tangela has a 37.5% chance to be 2HKO'd by the combo after rocks.
 
BrokenMusicBox said:
I think Marowak hasn't changed much other than the fact that it hits even harder now. It's still an utter beast in Trick Room teams, which I think is better than having to rely on paralyze to slow down everything.
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As I said, Marowak has actually decent bulk. Paralysis support is much better than TR in my experience because it can actually fit on a balanced team, and TR is very unreliable.
 
So, what things have you guys started to see arise as "team necessities" in this meta? For example, toxic/trick may be necessary since you can't possibly have an offensive answer to every wall you meet.
 
Chaoswalker said:
So, what things have you guys started to see arise as "team necessities" in this meta? For example, toxic/trick may be necessary since you can't possibly have an offensive answer to every wall you meet.
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It's already like that really in any Metagame. Trick and Toxic should be on every team regardless of whether there is a wall every single game.
 
With threats such as Sawsbuck dominating Tier Shift, some sort of weather is a necessity if just to ruin other team's weather. If you're not running weather, then you're running Trick Room.

Btw, I also tested out CurseLapras and you guys were right, she is amazing. Only times it died were when it got critted and once when a choice banded Scisor got me with a Superpower when I was at half hp. Instead of a second attack, though, I gave it Sleep Talk so people won't ruin Lapras completely if they get rid of rain.
 
BrokenMusicBox said:
With threats such as Sawsbuck dominating Tier Shift, some sort of weather is a necessity if just to ruin other team's weather. If you're not running weather, then you're running Trick Room.

Btw, I also tested out CurseLapras and you guys were right, she is amazing. Only times it died were when it got critted and once when a choice banded Scisor got me with a Superpower when I was at half hp. Instead of a second attack, though, I gave it Sleep Talk so people won't ruin Lapras completely if they get rid of rain.
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If Curse Lapras is in Rain and you can't set something else, it's GG. Lapras is redonk.
 
Lapras @ Leftovers
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Perish Song
- Whirpool
- Protect
- Rest

Anything without Taunt that doesn't hit ridiculously hard is pretty much dead if it's raining.
A specially defensive set can be used depending on what your team needs.
The beauty of this set is that it's an excellent Jynx bait, who can't do much in return other than trying her luck with Focus Miss (which rarely runs).
 
Suicune is a great bulky water type in this tier, it already was a good tank in OU but now it gets +5 boosts.

I'm running a RestTalk set and barely anything can kill it, put Roar in the moveset and you got yourself a base for a stallteam. It teams especially well with another UU winner: Zapdos. Zapdos covers the Grass weakness Suicune has and doesn't take much from Electric attacks either, especially if it wins the speed match and Roosts.

On top of that both mons get Pressure to pp-stall your opponent.

Actually all those early gen legendaries have a niche in this tier: Suicune, Raikou, Moltres, Entei and Zapdos all enjoy this tier. I have no insight on Articuno tho, it's typing still lets it down but it does boast 105/115/140 defenses with access to instant recovery.
 
ElectivireRocks said:
Lapras @ Leftovers
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Perish Song
- Whirpool
- Protect
- Rest

Anything without Taunt that doesn't hit ridiculously hard is pretty much dead if it's raining.
A specially defensive set can be used depending on what your team needs.
The beauty of this set is that it's an excellent Jynx bait, who can't do much in return other than trying her luck with Focus Miss (which rarely runs).
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If Jynx has Dry Skin (Its best ability by FAR), then it's immune to Whirlpool. So you can't stop it from switching out. In fact, it'll just heal off of you, then switch out. So how does this set even work on Jynx?
 
Mr Omgness said:
Suicune is a great bulky water type in this tier, it already was a good tank in OU but now it gets +5 boosts.

I'm running a RestTalk set and barely anything can kill it, put Roar in the moveset and you got yourself a base for a stallteam. It teams especially well with another UU winner: Zapdos. Zapdos covers the Grass weakness Suicune has and doesn't take much from Electric attacks either, especially if it wins the speed match and Roosts.

On top of that both mons get Pressure to pp-stall your opponent.

Actually all those early gen legendaries have a niche in this tier: Suicune, Raikou, Moltres, Entei and Zapdos all enjoy this tier. I have no insight on Articuno tho, it's typing still lets it down but it does boast 105/115/140 defenses with access to instant recovery.
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Gives me an idea for a Rainstall Team. Or Semistall. hmmm.
 
I used Articuno a little, and it was underwhelming to me. Granted, I was trying to use it as an offensive Hurricane spammer. It might be more effective as a Toxic staller with those absurd defensive stats.
 
I found Articuno to be decent in rain teams as long as you have rapid spin support.
Unlike Swanna it gets U-Turn which is helpful since it allows you to keep momentum, especially when you consider that Articuno is Ninetales and Tyranitar bait.

It can also run a SubRoost set and abuse Pressure but Kyurem does that better.

Here are a few replies where you can see what PerishTrapping Lapras can do.
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/tiershift-15071298
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/tiershift-15070484
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/tiershift-15069159
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/tiershift-15118902
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/tiershift-15119449
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/tiershift-15119870
 
I would jsut like to mention that, with the stat boosts and Light Ball, pikachu has base 105 Spe and SpA 2 points lower than fully invested deoxys-a (and attack 20 points higher). Just a thought
 
We all know that Pikachu's pretty ridiculous and an excellent wallbreaker. It's still hovering around the too-slow range though, which goes to show just how fast Tier Shift can get.
 
Arcticblast said:
We all know that Pikachu's pretty ridiculous and an excellent wallbreaker. It's still hovering around the too-slow range though, which goes to show just how fast Tier Shift can get.
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This.

Base 105 is pretty much the lowest "fast" speed tier in Tier Shift. So many pokemon hit that tier now due to the stat boosts, including Mew, who is surprisingly good in this meta, able to run anything you need within reason. I ran a lead set with it running Stealth Rock/Fake Out/Taunt/U-Turn with max HP/Speed/4 attack. It was able to keep up pretty well against almost all threats, especially Dark Types, by U-turning off them to a hard counter, while dealign a bit of SE damage.
 
Ah yeah, I'm a tiershift newbie, I should have known pikachu would already have been brought up. I wonder, do you guys think there's a sort of "standard" base speed in tiershift, kinda like 108 has become a benchmark in OU?
 
Kidogo said:
Ah yeah, I'm a tiershift newbie, I should have known pikachu would already have been brought up. I wonder, do you guys think there's a sort of "standard" base speed in tiershift, kinda like 108 has become a benchmark in OU?
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Page 8. Post #190.

Lists all the new stats by BST and Speed.

Looks like 110-115 is about baseline, with Ninjask topping out at 175 as fastest.

Even Jolteon's 130 is slow compared to some of these mons.
 
Arcticblast said:
We all know that Pikachu's pretty ridiculous and an excellent wallbreaker. It's still hovering around the too-slow range though, which goes to show just how fast Tier Shift can get.
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You have to keep in mind that the speed range is much wider compared to OU though.
Sure, we have things with 115+ base speed but we also have slow pokemon like Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Tyranitar and Heatran being not only viable, but also extremely common.

If you used something with base 85 speed in OU, you'll be certain that half of the opponent's team or more would outspeed it. Here you can use something relatively "slow" with 100 or so base speed and still being able to outpace common pokemon.
In tier shift people tend to run one or two very fast pokemon at most from what I have seen, because it's hard to give up the utility of the aforementioned "slow" mons.
 
This is starting to get really odd. It's kinda a fest of "Hey, try this mon out, it's cool!" imo the best course of action if you want this meta to solidify is a. Viability Ranking debates or b. Tier Shift Research Weeks (To speed up the process, please make it actually weeks) If you guys are passionate enough about this meta it might sound like a good idea given people are willing to participate (the removing of the ladder will REALLY hurt this though) I personally am willing to head this given I have a list of mons that people here either Theorymoned or mentioned to be successful.
 
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