Metagame Tier Shift

[Cuddly]

hp was nerfed from its boost during gen 7. don't mince words like that
(for something slightly more constructive the regis are this fall; my instinct is that they are ru-nu due to less power level but its hard toreally predict)

When a Pokemon is introduced, they will be OU initially. But that will change in the future.
The tiers shifting from 200 Pokemon coming in will be interesting and it’s going to shake up every SS meta.

 

[theotherguytm]

For all of the 5 minutes it remains untiered and hence +40 to all stats:
Raboot
65/126/100/95/100/134
(for comparison, Cinderace is 80/116/75/65/75/119)
Sample sets:
Raboot @ Life Orb/Expert Belt/Heavy-Duty-Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- High Jump Kick
- Flare Blitz
- Sucker Punch
Bulk Up set, with Fire/Fighting main options and priority in Sucker Punch to negate certain revenge killers. Not having Pyro Ball or Cinderace's coverage pool bites, but Raboot offers great bulk for setting up (its unboosted HP isn't even that bad) and very high speed. Life Orb recoil+Flare Blitz is probably too much, so one of the other options should give it more survivability.
Raboot @ Choice Band
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn
Simple 4 Attacks Band. These are about the only moves Reboot gets unfortunately. Unless you want to try jank like this:
Raboot @ Eject Pack/White Herb/Power Herb/No Item
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Overheat/Bounce/Bulk Up
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick
- Bulk Up/Flare Blitz/Gunk Shot
Acrobatics-based jank set, because Raboot's movepool is unfortunately that shallow. If you want to get some mileage out of a consume item, Overheat+Eject Pack is a one-time free pivot (coming off base 95 Spa remember) or Overheat+White Herb lets you drop multiple Overheats. Power Herb+Bounce is the other option, unless you really want to risk it with a pinch berry set of some kind (please no).

 

[temp]

+
(sprites have imports of sets)

• 100/145/110/80/90/105

• 67/87/85/107/85/144

This core is based on the Grookey + Woobat core being popularized in LC. The basic idea is that Rillaboom can set up Grassy Terrain to activate Swoobat's Grassy Seed, soften up Pokemon that would normally take a hit from Swoobat, and pivot around to Swoobat as well. At +2 defense, Swoobat becomes surprisingly bulky. It can surprisingly set-up a Calm Mind on some really strong breakers, and can set up around 2 or more on more passive mons thanks to Roost.

A few calcs to demonstrate Swoobat's bulk

252 Atk Silvally-Bug Multi-Attack vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 115-136 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Raboot Flare Blitz vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 165-195 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 204-242 (74.1 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Grassy Seed is used)

EV spreads can be optimized for Swoobat. Offense and hyper offense are the best archetypes for this core.​

 

[Ztest]

Hello council,
Any plans to suspect Thievul?
If new mons will be implemented I understand no bans, but I figured most things would be untiered.
If not, this mon is really broken.
If anyone disagrees or agree I can give a much more contemplated response.
Thanks

 

[Cuddly]

Hello council,
Any plans to suspect Thievul?
If new mons will be implemented I understand no bans, but I figured most things would be untiered.
If not, this mon is really broken.
If anyone disagrees or agree I can give a much more contemplated response.
Thanks

I'm pretty sure you're the first one to complain about Thievul. It most certainly wasn't as broken as PU Rapidash-Galar, which was one of the best Pokemon in Tier Shift.
Can you please back up your claim to why it's broken?

 

[Ztest]

I'm pretty sure you're the first one to complain about Thievul. It most certainly wasn't as broken as PU Rapidash-Galar, which was one of the best Pokemon in Tier Shift.
Can you please back up your claim to why it's broken?

Hello,
I believe I'm the first good vocal player to really catch on to the potential this thing has. I was really struggling to peak this meta and Thievul did it for me practically on its own.

Regardless if it's broken or not, Thievul is the best mon in this meta by far, here are my reasons.

1. Free set up/1 turn titan
Rillaboom in this tier is amazing on it's own and proves to be an even better partner for Thievul, who only benefits from terrain. You can add these two to any team and make it viable against all archetypes.
Thievul's access to Nasty Plot and grassy recovery is what puts it levels above any other unburden mon. Thievul becomes incredibly bulky with seed, and it's natural special defense means it will survive most strong neutral moves, evading 2hkos with grassy restore. The additional HP that Thievul can restore (which the other unburden mons can't) means that it has essentially a +1 def leftovers item, unmatched by any other terrain seed combination, limited as it may be.
What I would like to emphasize is that this 132 spdef mon can go from zero to +2 speed +1def +2 spa in 1 turn. Nothing else can do close to this. The only thing that I can think to compare is Xerneas. Yes, you're sacrificing an item slot, but it doesn't really matter when you are getting insane bulk and power in just 1 turn. Thievul is a 1 turn will decide if I win the whole game type mon.

2. Coverage/Niche counter play
Thievul's limited movepool is a complete non-problem, it has exactly the tools it needs. Psychic is perfect for Toxapex and Thro, which would naturally be answers to a set up dark type. Grass Knot ohkos Quagsire, which would naturally be an answer to a set up dark type. Dark pulse offers a strong stab move that can flinch just to top it off.
Really think about how good it is to be able to beat not only the top Regenerator mon but also the top Unaware mon, plus beat a whole type that you're weak to, PLUS get a free +2 speed +1 def boost. No other set up sweeper has this flexibility. Of course I know fairies can easily counter, but offensively this is the perfect moveset for an unburden sweeper. This leads to extremely niche counter play, there is only 2 ways to beat Thievul after it set up. You can either have a mon that avoids the 2hko and pressures it, or have a mon that 1hkos it and lives in return. This may seem like a big pool of pokemon but it truly isn't, if you don't have a specific mon dedicated to counter play Thievul, you will lose. Thievul centralizes teams.

3. Impossible to revenge/too fast
Thievul's massive 130 speed being doubled by unburden is perhaps it's best attribute. This allows for you to naturally outspeed all scarfers, all other unburden mons, and even weather boosted mons. This limits revenge speed counter play to either priority or opposing Thievul. Common speed creepers like fake out espeed Pikachu fail to do nearly enough. Additionally, Thievul can easily eat a mach punch/vacuum wave and ohko fighters/Pikachu in return. What this leaves us with is the simple inability to outspeed Thievul. Nothing on your team right now (that isn't another Thievul) can outspeed mine after it's been unburdened. I think that's a problem for a mon that can boost +2 easily, though I will admit there is a lot of counterplay HO can incorporate. First impression and sash for example can alleviate the match up for offense, though they are inherently circumstantial.

I predict that we will see in upspike in usage for this mon as more and more people realize it's potential. I am hoping this post will also shed some light. I really like Thievul and honestly I would hate to see it go, but I also have beat on this meta ladder enough to realize what's best for it.

 

[Cuddly]

Hello,
I believe I'm the first good vocal player to really catch on to the potential this thing has. I was really struggling to peak this meta and Thievul did it for me practically on its own.

Regardless if it's broken or not, Thievul is the best mon in this meta by far, here are my reasons.

1. Free set up/1 turn titan
Rillaboom in this tier is amazing on it's own and proves to be an even better partner for Thievul, who only benefits from terrain. You can add these two to any team and make it viable against all archetypes.
Thievul's access to Nasty Plot and grassy recovery is what puts it levels above any other unburden mon. Thievul becomes incredibly bulky with seed, and it's natural special defense means it will survive most strong neutral moves, evading 2hkos with grassy restore. The additional HP that Thievul can restore (which the other unburden mons can't) means that it has essentially a +1 def leftovers item, unmatched by any other terrain seed combination, limited as it may be.
What I would like to emphasize is that this 132 spdef mon can go from zero to +2 speed +1def +2 spa in 1 turn. Nothing else can do close to this. The only thing that I can think to compare is Xerneas. Yes, you're sacrificing an item slot, but it doesn't really matter when you are getting insane bulk and power in just 1 turn. Thievul is a 1 turn will decide if I win the whole game type mon.

2. Coverage/Niche counter play
Thievul's limited movepool is a complete non-problem, it has exactly the tools it needs. Psychic is perfect for Toxapex and Thro, which would naturally be answers to a set up dark type. Grass Knot ohkos Quagsire, which would naturally be an answer to a set up dark type. Dark pulse offers a strong stab move that can flinch just to top it off.
Really think about how good it is to be able to beat not only the top Regenerator mon but also the top Unaware mon, plus beat a whole type that you're weak to, PLUS get a free +2 speed +1 def boost. No other set up sweeper has this flexibility. Of course I know fairies can easily counter, but offensively this is the perfect moveset for an unburden sweeper. This leads to extremely niche counter play, there is only 2 ways to beat Thievul after it set up. You can either have a mon that avoids the 2hko and pressures it, or have a mon that 1hkos it and lives in return. This may seem like a big pool of pokemon but it truly isn't, if you don't have a specific mon dedicated to counter play Thievul, you will lose. Thievul centralizes teams.

3. Impossible to revenge/too fast
Thievul's massive 130 speed being doubled by unburden is perhaps it's best attribute. This allows for you to naturally outspeed all scarfers, all other unburden mons, and even weather boosted mons. This limits revenge speed counter play to either priority or opposing Thievul. Common speed creepers like fake out espeed Pikachu fail to do nearly enough. Additionally, Thievul can easily eat a mach punch/vacuum wave and ohko fighters/Pikachu in return. What this leaves us with is the simple inability to outspeed Thievul. Nothing on your team right now (that isn't another Thievul) can outspeed mine after it's been unburdened. I think that's a problem for a mon that can boost +2 easily, though I will admit there is a lot of counterplay HO can incorporate. First impression and sash for example can alleviate the match up for offense, though they are inherently circumstantial.

I predict that we will see in upspike in usage for this mon as more and more people realize it's potential. I am hoping this post will also shed some light. I really like Thievul and honestly I would hate to see it go, but I also have beat on this meta ladder enough to realize what's best for it.

This is actually an excellent post, but I still disagree.
Thievul was definitely a surprise with how good it was, despite its terrible movepool.

Firstly, yes, Grassy Seed+Unburden is a pretty good way to get your Unburden boost, and Thievul can get away with being bulkier thank to Unburden and Thievul having 130 Spe. This is very similar to what people used in Gen 7 OU with Tapu Koko and Hawlucha.
However, 1 problem with Unburden is that it’s strictly a late game clean up.
If you’re forced to switch out too early, you better hope you removed the opponent’s fast Pokemon, since you’re not getting it back. Compared to an ability like Swift Swim, Unburden is less flexible despite having the same boost since the conditions for Swift Swim can be utilized throughout a game and doesn’t require a consumable item.
This isn’t to say Unburden is bad or outclassed by weather speed abilities since it isn’t blocked by opposing weather and last as long as you don’t switch.
There is also the problem of Thievul not always getting a free Nasty Plot. Sure, you have Psychic for Fighting types, but do you really trust that it can KO at full health? And do you trust that Fighting STAB won’t kill because of Unburden?
Thievul sure is Bulky. bulky enough to tank an Icicle Crash from Beartic, but not bulky enough to tank STAB Close Combats multiple times or STAB Playrough.

Secondly, there is a few things you didn’t consider.
With DP, Psychic, and GK, you aren’t getting past most Dark types.
Skuntank and Scrafty really shit all over Thievul as defensive counterplay.
Pyukumuku is also a good answer as it heals from Grassy Terrain and doesn’t care about Thievul’s stat boosts, while not being OHKO’d from a x4 grass knot.
Bulky fairy types also work really well against Thievul, as even a +2 Psychic or Grass Knot won’t do much.
It doesn’t even have to be that bulky of a fairy type. Rapidash-Galar is bulky enough to stomach a Dark Pulse and KO it back pretty easily.
Ludicolo is also a pretty good option. In Rain, Ludicolo hits Thievul really hard. Even when using enough EVs to outspeed +2 Modest Ludicolo (96 Speed EVs), Thievul still struggled to beat it since a Rain Boosted LO Hydro Pump hits hard and Ludicolo itself is pretty specially bulky. On top of Ludicolo benefiting from Grassy Terrain more than Thievul does.
Trust me when I say that Thievul definitely needs support from its teammates with chip damage and threat removal.
For comparison, while we got to play with +40 Rapidash-Galar for the few days, it was an absolute beast. Life Orb Swords Dance, Play Rough, Zen Headbutt, and High Horsepower could trade half of the opponent’s team since it would be as fast as the fast electric types like Manetric, it had coverage only resisted by Bonzong, and it has excellent bulk for the power and speed you got from Rapidash-Galar. It was very easy to switch on the field because of its bulk, immunity to Toxic, and how it can easily kill you before you could move.
If Rapidash-G wasn’t recently banned from PU, I would say it would the Pokemon most suspect worthy. It can be used pretty liberally with huge amounts of pay off.
Thievul has a good pay off but requires more patience and teammates to soften up the opposing team.

Third, like I said earlier, Ludicolo is an excellent revenge killer for Thievul. Even when running a set to specifically to outspeed Modest Ludicolo by as much as possible with the rest invested into HP, Ludicolo that’s healthy enough can severally punish you for over extending.
Revenge killing isn’t always about speed and going first. It does help, but it’s mostly about forcing a Switch/Sack on a weakened Pokemon too.
I did find myself over extending with Thievul where a +2 Dark Pulse just barely misses an OHKO.

 

[Skankovich]

Ninjask
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- U-turn
- Acrobatics

This is a really handy anti-offense pick. With only 48 speed you outspeed positive base 145 mons, allowing you to comfortably smack things around with base 120 adamant acrobatics and U-turn. Protect gives you a way to deal with mons that have set up and dodge Fake Outs and SD gives you a way to clean late game. It obviously requires significant anti-rocks support, but it's pretty potent.

Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Discharge
- Sludge Bomb

This is an odd one but it's effective and a lot of fun. This thing has titanic 109/124/139 bulk with a distinct useful typing and a really annoying ability in Static. With base 121 spattk it can use its good STABs and coverage to eat hits, set rocks and threaten things back immediately - particularly with the combination of Static and Discharge spreading paralysis across teams. People expect it to be weak and passive and do dumb things in front of it which helps too

 

[soral_a_raison]

Thievul looks really problematic indeed. The counter post didn't convince me one bit

what about Appletun? it's nearly unkillable unless you have a fairy/flying with very high atk

 

[G-Luke]

Scyther is being quickbanned from Tier Shift. Gaining several new tools while in a metagame with a lower power level than last gen, such as Acrobatics, Dual Wingbeat and Heavy Duty Boots combined with Scyther's enormous BST total (including 150 Attack and 145 Speed) makes it an overwhelming presense in the meta. Due to the nature of DLC this ban may be look at again in the future.

tagging The Immortal to implement this.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Due to the nature of DLC this ban may be look at again in the future.

By "the nature of DLC" do you mean "Crown Tundra might shake things up enough for Scyther to not be broken" or "Scyther being new DLC and NFE means it's currently PU, and it might become manageable when it settles in like RU or something"?

 

[The Immortal]

Scyther is being quickbanned from Tier Shift. Gaining several new tools while in a metagame with a lower power level than last gen, such as Acrobatics, Dual Wingbeat and Heavy Duty Boots combined with Scyther's enormous BST total (including 150 Attack and 145 Speed) makes it an overwhelming presense in the meta. Due to the nature of DLC this ban may be look at again in the future.

tagging The Immortal to implement this.

Scyther is banned from PU, so it only has +30 boosts now. Worth reconsidering the quickban.

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

Hot damn DLC came out and it def shakes some things up. Realize this will be likely be outdated very quickly but here are some initial thoughts I have on how DLC shakes up the meta.

In gen: new moves seem biased for terrain. And an actually good terrain setter in Rilla is out. Potential terrain abuse teams are back???

NFE/LC Pokes:

Its mustache isn't as good as Alakzam and its coverage is ass. No Focus Blast and the general lack of Hidden Power hurts.
But, 160 SpA, 145 speed, and Magic Guard are some great qualities.
It has gained Expanding Force. So could be scary on Psychic Terrain team.


Cinder has Libero and has kind of become the fire type version of Protean . And its great.
But its Prevo is mostly better.
Stats are 65/126/100/95/100/134 vs 80/116/75/65/75/119. Alas, Raboot lacks Pyro Ball and Court change. But it has Flare Blitz+HJK+Sucker Punch+U-Turn for Libero coverage and Taunt for stall breaking.


Good lord the shrub has returned. No evio prevents it from being the God of Stall and no HP boosts sucks. Imagine 105/155/80 bulk.
But 65/155/80 is decent bulk to work with. Surprisingly has some punch to it with 95 atk, 140 spa, and 100 speed. Lose of HP hurts coverage and lacks its evolutions access to EQ so it doesn't work as an AV tank. But the physical defensive wall/pivot set should still be good.

PU:
:Mr.Mime-Galar: :Mr.Rime:
They have all dropped to the bowls of PU for the better. OG Mime has best def typing, best ability in filter, Mystical Fire coverage, and highest SpD.
Galar Mime has STAB ice moves, slightly faster, and slightly physical bulk than Mime.
Rime has the worst speed and abilities. But has Slack off, best overall bulk, and highest SpA.
Galar Mime and Rime are looking to be premier rapid spinners in TS. Especially since The Snowflake isn't back. Yet.

:Gourgeist-Super:
Man I wish Poltergeist was a special attack. Imagine what or could do with it.
Still beastly 110 BP Ghost move with not a huge condition to work on pokes with 140 or 150 atk. Would make Trevs and Dusks CB sets way better.

PUBL:

Dual Wingbeat is godly on this thing. Essentially a 120 BP Flying type move thats multi hit and only downside is 90% accuracy. "
Even with evio ban, Heavy Duty Boots help make up for its terrible life against SR. Can understand why Council decided on quick ban.
But like TI said, Scyther is PUBL so Its only +30 stats instead of 40. Really want to abuse this a little so maybe quick ban should be reconsidered?


Always sucked that it had to rely on STAB Shadow Punch for Ghost type STAB. But then GF gave it Poltergeist in addition to options like Heat Crash and Close Combat. While stats are worse then it was last gen, 154 atk STAB Poltergeist is worth considering.


Steel types beware, Magnets have returned to trap you. With it now being in PUBL, stats are way better than last gen.
50/90/125/150/100/100. Viability is mostly based on popularity of steel types in the meta. Also Meltan is outclassed.

NU:
:Acrtovish:
Its Draco version was sent to Ubers while I took a hiatus. Woah.


Yes terrains are worse, yes Indee is no Tapu.
But Expanding Force is awesome. When under Psychic terrain its BP goes to 120 pre STAB and terrain boost.
Pair that move with 125 SpA, and 115 speed, Psychic terrain teams have caught my attention.

NUBL:

While its risen to NUBL caused stats to go down, Triple Axel is a nutty move.

RU:

Even though Grassy Terrain is nerfed compared to last generations, Rilla getting Grassy Surge is amazing and its stats are > than its pre evolution.
100/145/110/80/90/115 vs 70/125/110/95/100/120. Its kind of like Tapu Bulk from last gen. Only not a fairy and has actual coverage to work with.
Thank you Ztest for pointing out this gets Grassy Glide. Rilla has priority while terrain is out. This thing is a monster.


I just saw Arena Trap has finally been banned from OU. RIP Dug. Its down to the depths of unviability with you. And Arena Trap in gen.

RUBL:
Flip Turn is 60 BP water type U-turn. And :Baraskewda: has 133 atk and 146 speed. Moving on.


For some reason Chansey is RUBL and Blissey is OU. Which means Blissey is slightly worse than it was last gen. Though it will probably be still quite good.
As for Chansey, the only stats it has thats better than Blissey is 5 more atk, def, and speed. With evio banned, just run Blissey.
If Chansey for some reason goes to RU, then its stats are 250/25/25/55/125/70. Then Chansey wouldn't be totally outclassed by Blissey but Blissey still has some advantages over chan in slightly more wish recovery and better special bulk.

UU:
Really surprised is in UU given that its been OU since it first came out.
91/82/100/139/100/118 stats are really good. Especially now that it has Flip Turn for its choice sets. And Air Slash for coverage. I guess.


It fell to UU. And while toad is back its in OU. Rain teams are worth considering.

 

[Skankovich]

The ladder for this is unfortunately pretty dead, a shame as it's a fun meta imo. Here's the team I've been using throughout most of the ladder's run to good success, a sort of fat voltturn.

Importable

Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb

Ninjask
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- U-turn
- Acrobatics

Rotom-Frost @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Blizzard
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Wishiwashi @ Leftovers
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- U-turn
- Scald

Gourgeist @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Poltergeist
- Flame Charge
- Synthesis

Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Discharge
- Sludge Bomb

Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb

This is a really versatile and splashable gluemon. Key resists supported by good bulk, spammable STAB moves with good coverage and high secondary effect chances, good speed, defog and set up. I ran defog on this to support Ninjask, but Fire Blast is a great coverage option if going for a full nasty plot set.

I talked about this one before, big threat! The double defog users are here to keep this healthy as it throws out U-turns and acrobatics.

Rotom-Frost @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Blizzard
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

This is pretty straightforward, I wanted removal and an ice resist in one slot and this fit the bill. Nice bulk and Ice STAB lets you volt switch around quite freely, while Pain Split works well with its low hp, keeping it healthy long enough to do its job.

Wishiwashi @ Leftovers
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- U-turn
- Scald

Fat with a really strong scald and a really strong and slow u-turn. Eats hits and status and gets the frailer mons on the team in. The low hp lets it down even with its astronomic defence stats, so don't throw it around too much. It gets flip turn now, so you could feasibly run flipturn/ice beam over u-turn/scald if you'd like.

Gourgeist @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Poltergeist
- Flame Charge
- Synthesis

This mon is insanely versatile and really strong. Unfortunately just banned from PU, so won't be keeping the boosts it once had, but it was fast, fat and strong with an insane movepool. This set eats a super effective hit and then sweeps with a Flame Charge boost and high BP STABs off base 130 attack (now 120 rip). Here's the other sets I've ran effectively on it:

Hide

Gourgeist @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute

Gourgeist @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast

Gourgeist @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Power Whip
- Poltergeist
- Will-O-Wisp
- Synthesis

Gourgeist @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Power Whip
- Poltergeist
- Fire Blast
- Synthesis

Posted about this one before! Absolutely gobbles up hits, smacks things back, sets rocks, spreads paralysis, bops opposing voltturn.

 

[Todd]

Chandelure/Lampert is super anti-meta at the moment. The ability to switch in and out endlessly on dubwool, raboot, arcanine, flareon, hitmons, standard coalossal, etc AND set up on/ko/scare out rillaboom/thwackey is incredibly useful in the meta right now.

Flame charge sets are great win cons against hyper offense teams that are increasingly relying on grassy glide as their main priority (and ghost immunities help too), but my favorite is the fatter sub cm set which can set up on everything listed above AND several silvallies, nearly every fairy, torkoal, leafeon, klingklang, mawile, perrserker, phys toxicroak, and many other threats. It's a great poke to have in your back pocket that most teams are unprepared for.

Pairs great with silvally dark/fairy which can switch in on dusknoirs, golurks, thievuls, liepards, etc.

Also pairs fantastically with scarf/band rillaboom/thwackey, who can switch in on and ko water types and fat grounds. They also lure in (and can u turn out of) scythers, ninjask, raboot, and vespiquen, which chandelure likes and can either kill or set up on.

Lampent v chandelure really comes down to preference, but in my experience you're nearly always better off with chandelure. The extra 20 spa has mattered far more than the extra 5 spe, and their defenses are identical.

 

[Ztest]

PU:
:Mr.Mime-Galar: :Mr.Rime:
They have all dropped to the bowls of PU for the better. OG Mime has best def typing, best ability in filter, Mystical Fire coverage, and highest SpD.
Galar Mime has STAB ice moves, slightly faster, and slightly physical bulk than Mime.
Rime has the worst speed and abilities. But has Slack off, best overall bulk, and highest SpA.
Galar Mime and Rime are looking to be premier rapid spinners in TS. Especially since The Snowflake isn't back. Yet.

RU:

Even though Grassy Terrain is nerfed compared to last generations, Rilla getting Grassy Surge is amazing and its stats are > than its pre evolution.
100/145/110/80/90/115 vs 70/125/110/95/100/120. Its kind of like Tapu Bulu from last gen. Only not a fairy and has actual coverage to work with.

Hello,
I disagree with your statements on these.

Screen Cleaner on Rime is actually really good since screens are dangerous on set up spam HO. The most common set Spin/NP/Freeze/Psychic means that the slower speed is negligible after 1 spin. You already outspeed most of the things that threaten you anyway like neutral Falinks, but yes they are the best spinners.

For Rillaboom, this is the best mon in the meta right now. You can get away with running adamant choice band, which nukes even resists. Grassy glide being essentially stronger grass E-speed is extremely powerful and revenges a lot of common sweepers; not to mention that SD life orb can set up and sweep easily after some support. The Scyther nerf means that the u-turn isn't always forced, along with the grassy terrain means you can just press wood hammer/glide most of the time with little drawback. No TS team should miss a Rillaboom, it really is that good.

Also no one is really using this right now bc ladder is dead, but banded urshifu is still broken even without any stat boosts. It works well on a sticky web team since it 2Hkos the entire game, along with Rillaboom.

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

Screen Cleaner on Rime is actually really good since screens are dangerous on set up spam HO. The most common set Spin/NP/Freeze/Psychic means that the slower speed is negligible after 1 spin. You already outspeed most of the things that threaten you anyway like neutral Falinks, but yes they are the best spinners.

That had to do with personal experience. Based on the couple of games I saw on ladder, Sleep was more common than screens.

As for Rilla, Jesus I forgot Grassy Glide is a thing.

 

[kakaks]

what abt zu? zu gets a +50?

 

[かたわれ時]

what abt zu? zu gets a +50?

If LC only gets +40 then ZU would still get +40 I guess

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

what abt zu? zu gets a +50?

This is something Ive wanted for quite some time.

 

[a girlboss]

Flapple @ Starf Berry
Ability: Ripen
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Recycle
- Grav Apple
- Acrobatics / whatever

+4 to any stat that isn't Sp. Atk is so o_O
this is just a gimmick and gets walled hard by steels but its fun so who tf cares?

 

[Arkeis]

Here's my team that peaked #1 on the ladder

Stall based around Shedinja, since it seems every team has one or two Pokemon that can't touch it so once you get rid of all the ones that can OHKO it, you've basically won the battle.
No contact moves on Shed since you don't want to trigger Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs. But Hex does a surprisingly decent amount of damage on statused opponents.

Shedinja and Gourgeist are actually pretty good partners. They both share similar weaknesses (except Rock) so you can use Gourgeist's massive bulk to scout for physical attacks that Shed is weak to. Frisk is actually handy to reveal Choice items the opponent may have. You can use this information to your advantage when you use protection moves to see what the opponent will use and whether you should switch or not.

Toxapex is OU, but that doesn't mean it can't do a good job of spreading poison, burn, and just being a good counter to Fighting types and Raboot. There really isn't anything in the lower tiers that does its job better.

The rest of the team is self-explanatory and handles Ghost, Dark, Fire, and Rock moves. Before the DLC, I used to have a Coalassal to take Flying attacks and spin hazards away. But the lack of recovery meant it relied too much on Wish support.

 

[BazInABasket]

Love Post

130/125/120/125/135/100

may not have the best typing or movepool, but those are some stats

It can run a lot of sets, to be fair it might not be the best pokemon for those sets but it's versatility can't be understated.

DD + Ice Shard:
Lapras @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Liquidation
- Ice Shard
- Megahorn/Drill Run

Specs:
Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt/Psychic

Defensive:
Lapras @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Freeze-Dry
- Life Dew
- Heal Bell

I wish got a bigger movepool, but it does well with what it has.

Also some more PU pokemon that deserve love:


65/165/140/95/110/125
165 Attack + Moxie with Pinsir's above average movepool can make Pinsir quite the threat on Sticky Web teams if played right, it's speed leaves something to be desired but it's still a fast pokemon. It can also run a scarf set and snowball late game and Stealth Rock doesn't hurt either.


75/140/150/85/95/105
Move over Excadrill, Sandslash is here! Realisticly speaking Sandslash doesn't totally outclass Excadrill and they both have their own roles sepreate from each other, however Sandslash does have higher defenses and speed, with a slightly boosted attack. Sandslash can be used on teams who need a ground type that isn't weak to Ground, Fire and Fighting. Sandslash also has Spikes, Knock Off and Stone Edge to set itself apart.


140/110/85/125/90/85
WishPort staring Wigglytuff! Eviolite's Ban makes Clefairy weaker and leaves the other Fairy to take over! Lacking Magic Guard does hurt it however and can make it easier to wear down, however it takes hits better than Clefable and can hit back better with a 125 Special Attack Stat. Losing it's fighting resist hurts but gaining a ghost immunity helps.


60/120/150/90/120/85
haha 744 attack

 

[Dunsparcelona13]

Ninjask
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- U-turn
- Acrobatics

This is a really handy anti-offense pick. With only 48 speed you outspeed positive base 145 mons, allowing you to comfortably smack things around with base 120 adamant acrobatics and U-turn. Protect gives you a way to deal with mons that have set up and dodge Fake Outs and SD gives you a way to clean late game. It obviously requires significant anti-rocks support, but it's pretty potent.

It gets Dual-Wing Beat now and can run Heavy-Duty Boots! I've got a long history with Ninjask, so I'm happy to try him out with these new tools. Gotta get rid of steel/rock types, but he could definitely be a decent sweeper!

 

[FyuriiTalon]

No one seems to be discussing Thwackey for some reason. How is it in the meta? Is it a good alternative to Rillaboom, or not worth mentioning?