Metagame Trademarked

Good day to you all and thank you fellow trademark lovers or toleraters. Thanks to all who voted for Trademarked as omotm, and I hope we can all enjoy playing it and creating some fun and interesting sets and teams.

Now for today I wanted to bring up two things today that I feel strongly on.

Now after some pondering and hearing some views from people in om room and even battling it a few times I have come to conclusion that Destiny Bond as a trademark is uncompetetive, and is now BANNED as a trademark.

Initially I had carried most of the banlist from last gen and sadly wasn't as active in the om room around the time when trademark was an om in gen 6. However, its clear to see that destiny bond is something that should not be and should never have been allowed. I played the early bh meta knew full well of the terror innards out chansey brought on the meta and d bond brings a similar affect to this meta. Though you cant run two dbond users due to the clause, as opposed to innards out which relies you to be frail enough to die to your opponents move, or having the same or more current hp than the opponent, dbond just requires you to get hit and successfully die. Since dbond doesn't care for hp, its of no consequence to simply run a lvl 1 mon who would die to any hit even a low dmg atk like rapid spin. Once you know its on the team your basically forced to not setup sweep until you something else on your team sacrifices itself to it, which could still be favorable for your opponent nonetheless. Even if you happen to have a status move in your movepool to bait the switchin, you now are placed in a position to guess correctly if your opponent will swap in again or just attack with what they have out already, and said mon in question may already have the power to one shot you. Yes it cant sit in front of you forever, but its not that hard to rinse and repeat. In conclusion, makes dealing with setup sweepers or major team threats too easy and causes too many mindgames so it is now banned.

Now the other thing I wanted to bring up is parting shot. Now it is not being banned, however I would like to hear your views on parting shot in the meta as you play it over the course of the next few days, at which point I will consider a proper suspect if it is deemed bannable. I will try to play as much as I can as well but Im at work for most of the day so can only really test and check in the afternoon when i get off. Which is why I heavily invite posting any matches you get to support your views which if enough proper arguments are made against it I would ban it if necessary.

Nontheless thanks to those who took the time to read this and I pray that you all enjoy the meta.

drampa's grandpa

turtonator's gurtonator
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So after chatting a lot, theorymonning a good bit, and playing a little, I've got some more sets to post. Not gonna be writing essays I hope the sets can speak for themselves mostly.

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: irondefense
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog / Spikes / Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Roost
- Whirlwind / Toxic / Spikes
- Brave Bird

This thing has walled every physical attacker I've seen so far that hasn't carried a crit booster. It's insanely tanky, and the people I've played and talked to so far seem to like chomp and Lando-T, so it's very useful against them. EVs are just what the builder spit out, I'm sure there are better ones out there. Roost is mandatory, Whirlwind means it can't be set up on, Defog or hazards depends on what the team needs (if neither Toxic is probably your best bet).

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Ability: screech
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Earthquake

This thing is a monster. Screech + Pursuit is an incredible combination, and while this set works best with some prediction chops (if they don't switch you might miss a kill) it can tear apart unprepared teams and is actually insanely easy to use. Highly recommended.

EDIT: Realized a version of this was already posted, but I think it bears repeating. It's good.

Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: psychicterrain / psychup
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Generic AAA Alakazam, but it works really well here. Why? Copying Trademarks rocks. You can get a free Sub, or boosted crit rates or Swords Dance even Tail Glow. I don't recommend Psych Up as much because Scarfers usually do this job better, but Zam does have a good enough speed tier that it can work well as a revenge killer.

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: luckychant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Heart Swap
- Pain Split
- Flash Cannon

Laser Focus Hoopa-U seems the wave (Hoopa for first suspect maybe? Too early tbh. Crit moves might be more of a problem actually) and this set is the solution. You don't get crit, and typing and bulk do the rest.

Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: psychup
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature / Naive Nature
- V-create
- Blue Flare / Glaciate
- Bolt Strike / Glaciate
- U-turn

This is basically the Manaphy I posted earlier but now it has higher BP moves and worse stat stealing. Switch it in on something that's SD'd and proceed to wreck face. Keep in mind that many SD TM users run scarf as well, so Chomp is likely to outspeed you.

Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Metal Sound
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Taunt

Haven't thought that much about this one but Metal Sound seems hot af. It will let Heatran force a ton of switches, although time will tell if the meta will end up being just to fast for this to work well or if it will need scarf.

And now on moves...

Sub seems like both the thing to beat and the way to beat many threats. It's incredibly annoying to face and a linchpin in most of my anti-sweep strategies. It's a really, really good trademark on anything wallbreaky because it lets you actually get off those attacks you direly want to that you wouldnt be able to otherwise. It can compress revenge killing, easy setup, and wallbreaking into one slot. It's really good.

Laser Focus:
This is the other wallbreakers' special. Instead of allowing wallbreakers to tank offensive threats it allows them to break through basically any defensive core. I see this as a potential problem, as it's really tough to find switchins to crit boosters without resorting to rather memey options such as the Magearna set I posted above which don't function particularly well otherwise.

Defensive Boosters / Nerfs: Criminally underrated. Remember stats besides your own attack / spa are there, and can help you outdamage or tank and they're really easy. Metal Sound and Screech are really nice with hazard support (see below) because you can force a ton of switches.

Hazards / Hazard removal: Getting hazards up and removing them are both incredibly easy here. Keeping hazards on the field is going to take good play and offensive pressure, but it's not impossible as I've seen some people suggest. It's just more dynamic than in many other metas, and also not restricted by PP.

Multi-hit moves: Not as a forte, but these seem really good because they break subs and can push sweeps through sub revenge killers, negating a common form of revenge killing.
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We were theorymonning in the OM room, and we got to discuss boosting stall. It sounded kinda disgusting to me, how hard it'd be to break through something like Iron Defense Skarmory, which is why I thought of this monster against stall...

On first sight you may just think of Swords Dance, and that it'd function as it normally would in standard (against +2 Defense Pokemon), where it is only UU. However, the thing that makes Terrakion amazing against stall is Sacred Sword.This rarely used move in standards ignores the opposing Pokemon's defense boosts, which allows it to OHKO or 2HKO most defense boosters around, especially annoying Steel-types like Skarmory, but also something like Curse Hippowdon (is this a thing?). You would pretty much have to use Haze against it, but even at +0, Toxapex takes over half from a Life Orb Earthquake, and without Regenerator it will be easy to wear down.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 216-255 (64.8 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 151-179 (49.6 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Have fun breaking stall~

So I heard you guys regarding kings shield. Some were saying it creates an infinite loop with parting shot, however I am curious as to whether or not kings shield or parting shot is the real problem. What I would like is to either hear some stuff supporting kings shield being bannable without being in conjunction with pshot. However, if you feel pshot is more the cause please enlighten me in other ways other than alongside kings shield. I will be at work for the next 9 hrs after this post so i wanted to make this now while im free.

Note that you can fight back against Parting Shot (and any other stat drop trademark) by trademarking Mist, which will make their move fail to the point that they don't even switch. If they weren't expecting to have that Pokemon and its moveset out for very long, other than a lastmon situation...too bad.
I think I've found a great utility Trick Room auto-setter:

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trick Room
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick
- U-turn
- Meteor Mash
- Healing Wish

Jirachi's primary job is to auto-set Trick Room and then slow pivot out to a Trick Room abuser. Jirachi has as much HP and Speed as possible while still hitting a good anti-Stealth Rock HP value. Maybe Jirachi can hit bulk thresholds instead?

The Choice Scarf is there mainly because max speed Jirachi with no Scarf still gets outsped by quite a lot of things outside of Trick Room and therefore outspeeds those same things inside Trick Room, making it a worse slow pivot.

Trick lets Jirachi give away its Choice Scarf to a more passive mon and get their item in exchange. Yeah, having a Choice Scarf sucks in Trick Room, and now your opponent gets to really feel that. Trick Room teams also have a tendency to stuff themselves with wallbreakers, so a move that attacks stall from a different angle also helps.

Meteor Mash is mainly there to make people regret Taunting Jirachi. It thankfully has no immunities, unlike Jirachi's Psychic STAB.

Healing Wish is mainly there to gain momentum and potentially heal a Trick Room abuser.

Jirachi still isn't lasting that long, especially against opposing Pokemon with super effective attacks, so make sure you have a backup Trick Room setter or two. A backup Trick Room setter with Substitute as its trademark is really swell because it's nigh-guaranteed to survive an attack and therefore set up Trick Room unless it cannot make a Sub anymore.

A non-Scarf variant can sustain itself better with Wish, Protect, and Leftovers, but it can slow pivot against fewer mons while inside Trick Room. It can also set up Stealth Rock better, but I like auto-Stealth Rock setters in Trick Room teams better (even a Mega with Stealth Rock as the trademark on the base form will do--you just don't want to waste a Trick Room turn setting Stealth Rock).
There's a definite regression in Parting Shot behavior there. After a few loops of that dance, when the original Persian comes back to attempt a 7th Parting Shot, it's supposed to fail for not being able to change any stats, and Persian should not be prompted to switch after that. Then the other side gets their turn to do the same dance, but they'll likewise be forced to stop after a point, and the players will move on to turn 1 move selection with a -6 Persian against a -0 Persian instead of being stuck in an endless loop. Reinstating proper server-side support for the way the move actually works in-game should eliminate these currently-uncircumventable complaints that might make it banworthy. parting shot needs to be banned, people are eventually going to find more ways to abuse it and create loops.
That specific loop is situational.
Your opponent would have to have a parting shot mon, then urs would have to be faster than their parting shot mon. Either that or get their pshot to fail and then send in yours. Of all claims against pshot that one doesnt hold much water if any.
That specific loop is situational.
Your opponent would have to have a parting shot mon, then urs would have to be faster than their parting shot mon. Either that or get their pshot to fail and then send in yours. Of all claims against pshot that one doesnt hold much water if any.
I found 2 more ways to start a loop and one of them can start turn 0

EDIT: also there is no reason one wouldn’t lead with parting shot as it gives you the opportunity to pivot into something that can beat your opponent’s lead.

EDIT2: me first+pshot literally kills anything that is trying to use a pivot move
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Im just gonna be brief since i cant express my full thoughts while im at work. I am leaning towards a ban for parting shot. So far i havent heard any proper arguments for it to stay. Im gonna be able to make a proper post in about 7 hrs from the time of this post. If i dont get any arguments for it to stay before then I will QuickBan it and give a proper post after I do research to confirm it as being broken and giving it proper points.

However If I get at LEAST 3 proper arguments for parting shot to stay , it will go on a suspect instead.
got stuck in a me first + pshot loop while using a pivot move, turn 7
why is this allowed
Your replay also makes a good argument that Level 1 Sub + Protect does an admirable King's Shield Smeargle imitation in terms of stalling for 32 turns straight or more (enough to get opposing mons to die to Toxic and switching through hazards), although the King's Shield Smeargle infinite loop version can also PP stall.


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I threw a quick stall team together and managed to win a TM roomtour
Grassy terrain is super strong and it lets you passively heal your mons while removing Pex's ground weakness. Pex and Tang also wall most physical moves, allowing Chansey to absorb special attacks. MSab lets you bounce back hazards, statuses, and stat drops. Pretty simple stall team, wins long games because of extra heal support.

Thanks pigeons for the defog skarm set

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: transform
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: willowisp
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Icy Wind

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Wish
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Reflect

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Haze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
- Toxic Spikes

Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: grassyterrain
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Defog
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Protect
- Toxic

The team has a bit of trouble with Victini and Hoopa-U. Pex is your best bet to beat Hoopa, but the entire team dies to Victini unless you get a reflect up. You could also replace tangrowth with a bulky physdef garchomp, which has a way better matchup vs Victini teams and gives the team a little boost in offensive power.
Quash fails if the target has already performed its action that turn (to include switching). In an ordinary single battle where the Quash user is faster, the move technically succeeds, but doesn't do a whole lot since it can't actually have a tangible effect on the move order in that case.

Quash as a trademark can't be meaningful either, so there's no point in trying.
After a while of pondering, and also the fortune of parting shot being banned on ladder due to breaking the games, I was able to come to a conclusion on parting shots presence in the meta.

Now parting shot was something limited back in the prior generation when trademarks could be run as many times on your team as it wanted because you could basically reduce your opponents stats to an absolute low then send in your setup sweeper with complete safety.
Now that it has been limited it cant directly cause this without a few specific circumstances as some have shown. However, that isnt the reason I feel it needs to be banned.

After trademarked was given a ladder, it was not long before many how found various loops that could be abused alongside other trademarks with parting shot, such as wish, substitute or kings shield smeargle. There is even a team posted earlier on in this thread showing a gimic done with simple beam. Parting shot makes it extremely hard for you to ever break your opponents team as they can reduce two of your stats and then pivot out into something that your mon will be no longer be able to break after being debuffed, all in a single instant. You could even run one mon with a trademark that drops atk and one that drops spa alongside it and essentially prevent ur opponent from ever taking any major chunk out of your mons unless u run focus energy or laser focus as trademark. Parting shot provides more safety to switching in than anything ever should and especially in conjunction with other trademarks. And in all honesty, despite my request and especially after wading in and out of the server, there doesnt seem to be any real opposition to it leaving or any wants for it to stay outside of people wanting to abuse it themselves to their opponents displeasure. That and it was already breaking games as is cause of infinite loops lol

So to rap this all up, Parting Shot is now BANNED as a trademark. tagging The Immortal , though its already banned on main anyway, so it can just stay that way.

Now I also heard people complaining about substitute. Substitute I would rather wait at least about 3 days to see how it fits in the meta and properly see if many are considering it bannable (also dont wanna go on a ban happy run), at which I would rather hold a suspect for it. I would like to at least see feedback on it over that time and replays showing it being broken, as Im not free most of my day to confirm for myself and Trademark lacks a council as of the moment.

Nonetheless, thanks to those who read and are playing trademarked, any feedback given is greatly appreciated. Hope you all have a Blessed Day :D
i only have one reply at the moment showing this but wish seems to be bugged, its happened a few times and idk where its going, check turn 14-15 Whitephoenixace
Wish when switching in at battle start or coming in after a faint behaves differently from Wish when switching in normally (i.e. be delayed by a turn). The most intuitive explanation I can offer is that the switch in and move activation happens at the start of the next turn, rather than as part of the same turn when switching in normally. The confusion is mostly caused by the way in which PS! orders the turn text, with the pre-turn stuff being displayed in the previous turn's section (or before the first turn for start of game stuff).

By the way, here's some stuff I've been messing around with to fill the gaping void in my heart left by banning Parting Shot: Level 1 Meowth-Alola. Alolan Meowth manages to reach 11 HP at level one with 0 IVs, allowing it to make use of the Lefties-Substitute-Protect combo. It also has access to Parting Shot to use whenever it manages to get in with the sub intact, and is able to use Fake Out to recover an additional point of HP, allowing it to regain HP lost when coming in hard off a faint or when using Parting Shot without protecting first for momentum (E: or HP lost from entry hazards, of course). Especially effective when paired with slow U-turn shenanigans allowing it to Parting Shot effectively.
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
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Fun OM though I have only begun playing it in earnest. I like the synergy between Tailwind@Zapdos, Transform@Mew and Wish@Chansey and pretty much any of your Sub sweepers. I additionally tried Lagging Tail Uturn on the Tailwind mon to get that unexpected momentum on people and bring other things in safely.


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I tested something today...

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: ingrain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Skill Swap
- Parting Shot
- Magic Coat / Lunar Dance / Memento / Anything

You simply Skill Swap your Ingrain onto the opponent, and Spore them for support. Then you pivot out to a different Pokemon, getting rid of your trap, while your opponent stays trapped (unless they can pivot too, or are a Ghost-type). After this, you can freely abuse the opposing Pokemon as they're completely trapped. You can set up on them, or just simply remove them from a defensive core if you're facing stall. It costs a teamslot, but I feel like this could be devastating when supported with other Pokemon that can take advantage of trapped Pokemon.

(Side note: can also be used on Lilligant with Healing Wish / Trevenant can Ingrain + Skill Swap and switch out due to Ghost-type)
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Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: transform
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic

I want to say why Mew Transform is strong

Transform :
Trick room : Stop Opposend Trick Room
Tail Wind : Use Tail Wind to
Terrain : Stop Terrain
Stat Boost : Double
Sub : Resub
Spikes : Respikes
Heart swap : Reswap
Destiny Bond : You know

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