Metagame Trademarked

woo. been meaning to come down here for a while but i feel down anime girl whole over the last week been a bit busy mentally over the last few weeks. Thankfully seems someone edited in some of the legend bans already but ive come here today to also add a few more as well as some additions to the threat watch list for today.

The mons in question are being added per some discussion from Clefable and Chazm regarding them being brought to me today.

The mons for ban:

Naganadel :naganadel:

Combination of versatiltity with nasty plot and spikes on sets, and of course being a generally fast and hard hitting nuke with near perfect coverage with only heatran being a true wall to it and even then can be worn down overtime.

Zygarde-50% :zygarde:

same old spam near unresisted stab but now at +1 and another +1 atk boosting option in its movepool to help it along further and hitting the prime haze mon for se stab as is

Kartana :kartana:

Kartana being added for its insanely high atk stat, solid speed tier , and ability to cut through most mons with just stab and a boost off swords dance as a trademark and using sacred sword to help cleave through any defensive boosts along the way. Also being able to utilize facade to still sustain its dmg output partially even with a burn.

Pheromosa :pheromosa:

in some ways deoxys light and some ways better than deoxys. access to qd as a trademark enhances its high speed tier and special attack further. it has the options of going mixed or pure physical or special and the ability to u turn out of its main checks/ counters freely, even more so this gen if it wills it with hdb. Only real weakness for it is prio, frailty, and reliance on a reliance on focus blast for special fighting stab. Still a fairly strong mon despite these traits.


Genesect :genesect:

Access to a strong booster in shift gear and a large amount of coverage. A ez additions for the banlist.



And an addition of regigigas on the watchlist

Regigigas (high stats overall but no direct boosting status option and lack of high bp stab and coverage).


Thats all for now. Will add to the main op shortly as I am trying to quickly add this from my phone since my power just went out mid me typing this up lol.

edit: also adding the ban of power construct for the obvious
 
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Corrosive gas seems really broken in this meta. It + Haze just means stall goes rampant because it's really hard to counter it

On another note, trick/switcheroo is a good way to counter stall, but you'd have to have a mon that you can't switch in until the perfect moment, and even then it cripples a single mon unless you want to run a bunch of AV/Choice Trick mons.

On offense, weather & terrain seems like a really good counter to stall, but the basic insta-removal of choice items means that it'll be much harder to OHKO anything bulky with healing trademarked
 
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I made a trick room counter core because I got rekt by a couple of trick room teams:

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Trick Room
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

This is good, both for shutting down trick room users and getting a free attack, and stopping really fast setup sweepers that you could never outspeed. If you pair it with the set below, you can even counter sweep.

Golisopod @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Swords Dance
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- First Impression
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- Rock Slide

This Golisopod is probably slower than a lot of the mons on the other team, so it will probably not be outsped in trick room. This also works outside of trick room paired with the previous gengar set. I minimised speed cause this isn't outspeeding anything anyway.
 
My Regigas set has been crushing it. It doesn't need its own boosting move with the over abundance of Shell Smash, Dragon Dance, and other boosting moves. Body Slam hits hard and paralyzes, Darkest Lariat lets you copy defensive bonuses and then ignore your opponents (also Ghost coverage), Earthquake is Earthquake, and Drain Punch helps you stay fresh.

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Psych Up
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Slam
- Darkest Lariat
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch

EDIT: Should ban this monster
 
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There is a minor mistake in the OP.

Under Abilities, the abilities Shadow Tag and Moody are not shown, despite being banned.

Edit: I also found another mistake. Regigigas is seen on the watchlist instead of being quick banned despite now having an ability other than Slow Start.
No seriously, what the fuck. Ban this shit already. It has better stats and movepools than most Ubers, and its only drawback is having an ability like Slow Start. How the hell is this thing allowed?
 
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Ok, 2 things.

Why isn't Corrosive Gas even on the watchlist? It's a noncompetitive move in a metagame like this. It needs to be banned immediately.

And Urshifu needs to be banned, that thing does 2hk0 to almost every Pokémon in the game.

This could greatly balance the current game.

UwU
 
For those of you having problems with Regigigas, I've been having success with a bog-standard Skarmory set with Spikes as the trademark:

:sm/skarmory:
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: spikes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Body Press
- Defog / Toxic

Unfortunately, Brave Bird doesn't KO Regigigas fast enough.
 
Just because "lack of high bp stab and coverage" was the second reason for not banning regigigas outright:

Regigigas
Ability: Gravity
- Mega Kick
- Earthquake / High Horsepower
- Knock Off / Darkest Lariat

This set has 120 bp stab with perfect accuracy and 100/95/85 super effective coverage against anything that resists its stab (ghost, rock, steel).

Gravity also enables a lot of other stuff on the team like strong grounds (landorus-i), mons with inaccurate stab (focus miss), and enhances many support moves (hypnosis / sleep powder / sticky web / spikes / t-wave / toxic). So it's anything but a wasted trademark slot.
 
I made a regigigas set, just to see how i can make this broken. And yes, this is the set I first made going to trademarked OM. This absolutely can be improved.
Regigigas @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Polish
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crush Grip
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Punch
Rock polish gives you speed control, outspeeding unboosted(but invested) Regieleki. The attack stat is 419, which is just broken. The only reason regigigas is in UU instead of uber/OU is its ability, which is ignored. crush grip has 120 power to a full HP enemy, and is boosted by life orb. the rest of the set was just my dumbass brain not knowing what to pick, so this is still a prototype. Should it be banned? probably yes. You wanna call me a dumbass? hey, look at my username. I am self-aware I'm a dumbass.
 
So...when two mons are sent out at the same time, and the faster mon has a Hazard move as its ability, why does the other mon take Hazard damage? Surely, both mons should be considered to be "on the field" before their abilities activate (since mons normally take Hazard damage before activating their abilities). It's happened twice now, and I wanted to confirm if it's intended.

the rest of the set was just my dumbass brain not knowing what to pick, so this is still a prototype.
I'd like to suggest Knock Off instead of Zen Headbutt.
 
So...when two mons are sent out at the same time, and the faster mon has a Hazard move as its ability, why does the other mon take Hazard damage?
No idea, but I believe it would have to be based on priority brackets.
As in, the hazard ability takes place between checking if the opposing Pokemon is on the field or not.
That is my guess.
Can you also show us a replay too?
 
So...when two mons are sent out at the same time, and the faster mon has a Hazard move as its ability, why does the other mon take Hazard damage? Surely, both mons should be considered to be "on the field" before their abilities activate (since mons normally take Hazard damage before activating their abilities). It's happened twice now, and I wanted to confirm if it's intended.
It's because Showdown runs both hazard damage and then ability activation for each Pokémon in turn, which lets the one switched in first set hazards to damage the other.
 
just a quick post to say things are being taken into consideration. Their is talk on corrossive gas atm and its future in the metagame. The same for regigigas, but I would appreciate it regarding gigas that you present examples of calculations and actual saved matches where gigas is shown to be broken. At the moment the 3 of us are neutral on gigas as we havent seen enough of it to judge it as a threat. You can use the context of gigas having high natural attack stat but there are mons fat enough to wall it safely in the meta especialy with the assistance of reflect and iron defense trademarks and as well mons that hit harder than it through the use of boosting trademarks (such as urshifu is atm also been brought up in talks as a threat.

I try to avoid just banning left and right unless something is obviously broken. I havent personally hopped on the ladder yet since trademarked has been up as I have been busy myself, so I cant make logical judgment on something like gigas without seeing actual examples of it being a threat. Chazm and Clefable are at the same mentality atm and need more proof to take such a stance on gigas. I know gigas is often considered standard ban in most metas where it loses its ability, but this gen it has lost its strong stab and in this meta its dmg output and bulk potential doesnt fully outclass the likes of other mons who actually have access to boosting options or defensive buffs. Naturally if examples and info does show it to actually be a problem for the meta , then it will be dealt with appropriately and the same for the previously mentioned corrossive gas and Urshifu.
 
It's because Showdown runs both hazard damage and then ability activation for each Pokémon in turn, which lets the one switched in first set hazards to damage the other.
So, you're saying the order on Showdown is: Faster Pokemon enters field -> Faster Pokemon's ability activates -> Slower Pokemon enters field -> Slower Pokemon's ability activates? Oh, I don't like this, I don't like this at all...

Can you also show us a replay too?
Yeah, my bad. I keep forgetting to save the replays.
 
Alright, here are some boring Spikes Skarmory vs. Regigigas calcs:

Defensive:
252+ Atk Choice Band Regigigas Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 119-141 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Regigigas Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 90-106 (26.9 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (12.4 - 14.6% recovered)

252+ Atk Choice Band Regigigas Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 116-137 (34.7 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Regigigas Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 76-90 (22.7 - 26.9%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Regigigas Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 125-147 (37.4 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Offensive:
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 186-220 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 99-117 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (9.7 - 11.5% recoil damage)

Skarmory ain't running Brave Bird any more in a Regigigas meta, but that's all a Spikes Skarmory needs to change.

Unfortunately, I didn't save the replay, but Skarmory offing a Regigigas by itself was glorious.
 
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file:///storage/emulated/0/Download/Gen8Trademarked-2020-11-03-newtothisstuff-azkali.html
Can't we block this chain? OK we can destroy it with weather or seed but it's so stupid......
 
Why isn't regi banned already?

Anyways
I wanted to post a very fun and strong Trick Room sweeper

Shuckle @ Choice Band / Focus Sash / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: powertrick
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Skitter Smack / Shell Smash
- Gyro Ball

This little guy cannot be outslowed even by an Iron Ball Stakataka (its a speed tie lol)

With its 230 base attack, and the high BP on his moves, it 2hko most of the metagame

252+ Atk Choice Band Shuckle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 292-345 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Gyro Ball is your safest move, hitting 150 BP on base 30 speed, 110 BP if it's min speed.
Stone Edge / Rock Blast is your main stab move. Stone Edge is stronger, Rock Blast is for sashes and subs.
Earthquake is Earthquake.
Knock Off is Knock Off.
Skitter Smack is if you want stab that makes it easier to survive a special attack.
Shell Smash is for setup, you are slower than Stakataka even if you're +2.
 
Is there a reason that Mat Block is legal as an ability, despite Protect and all its other variations being banned?
I was asking this same thing in the OM room before. Most people's reasoning was because Throh sucks, but that's not a good enough reason. It's still a busted move even if it's only on one Pokemon, and frankly Throh doesn't suck that much, especially with mat block as a trademark which allows it to get a strong hit every time you switch it in after you lose a mon (or at the start of the match). It even enables it to use focus punch. All protection moves need to be banned as a trademark, period. Example battle:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8trademarked-1215759456-068x4cdd7w2mwdm7igjrxo5srrn1x56pw
 
It's an unusual Mon with an unusual moo e but it can change a game with a endure user.
Mat block should be ban like others protective moove.
 

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