Metagame Trademarked

Ok I normally don't use the forums (I merely browse because I find the discussion interesting or want to see what's being discussed, I usually don't have anything to contribute because I'm not that great at pokemon.) but I just wanted to drop in and ask how Regigigas hasn't been banned from Trademarked yet. It's a pokemon with great stats across the board at 670 BST, and the only thing that holds it back normally is having a terrible ability.

I don't have a lot of evidence to show myself, but maybe by asking I can at least get the ball rolling for Gigias to either be quickbanned or at least discussed.
If we're talking Regigigas then I'm going to pitch my two cents and argue that it should remain unbanned. Truth is having 110/110/110 bulk isn't good when any Swords Dance/Nasty Plot trademark can delete you from existance, and 160 Attack is not impressive when it lacks any good means to increase damage output like much of the metagame is capable of.

Obviously at 670 BST it's pretty monstrous and it literally only has one bad stat, which is the one stat it doesn't care about (SpA), and it's got decent coverage, but it's lack of a good status movepool is what lets it down. Non Slow Start Regigigas is a huge boost to it, which is why it can get away with such subpar options.

I'd say there are three generally good variants of Regigigas.
  1. Rock Polish: This is the most offensive of the bunch. At +2 it's pretty darn fast and can easily augment it's power with a boosting item (or use Power-up Punch, but I'd rather just click coverage twice). It can also be hard to revenge kill without a faster Pokemon or some seriously strong priority thanks to being naturally sturdy. Life Orb or Band gives it a much-needed power boost, and I have seen Toxic Orb Facade for a strong STAB. Of course, Facade is as good as it gets: you seriously lack reliable STAB to abuse outside of Body Slam. This leaves your other attacking options pretty weak as a result, compared to Pokemon with much better offensive typings.
  2. Gravity: A much more supportive set that uses Gravity to enable the use of Mega Kick, a fantastic STAB option that is otherwise too inaccurate to run consistently. Gravity also lets it use EQ without much worry, and allows Toxic and Thunder Wave to have full accuracy when you need it.
  3. Thunder Wave: Use if you want Regigigas to annoy the opponent. Again the main upside is you don't have Slow Start.
These are all 100% viable and can put in work, but Regigigas faces a lot of trouble from big metagame threats, and it lacks tools to really become one as well. Lack of Amnesia/Iron Defense means it can't make good use of its great defenses to square off against all the nuclear offensive Pokemon on every other team. No boosting options outside of Rock Polish leaves it weak against Iron Defense users as well. It's prone to being worn down due to lack of any significant recovery moves, making it very hard to make progress against fat builds which often have multiple answers to threats way stronger than Regigigas.

I've been playing a bunch and used Regi myself, and I can't say that it's really been a problem for me, especially when compared to stuff like Trick Room Spam or Webs HO on crack, or that it's been the star player of my teams when I've run it. It's not bad but if I want a powerful Physical attacker I'm probably just going to use Landorus lmao
 

Arkeis

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I've peaked at #1 with this stall team and want to explore other types of teams, so I'm just dropping this here.



Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: spikes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Drill Peck
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

Skarmory leads the battle for a free Spikes and maybe a Stealth Rock if I have the chance. This can pressure the opponent into bringing out their Spinner/Defogger which is where my second Pokemon comes in.

Gourgeist-Super @ Assault Vest
Ability: trick
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Poltergeist
- Shadow Sneak
- Synthesis
- Seed Bomb

This here is the ultimate answer to entry hazard removal. Not only does it block Rapid Spin, it can also prevent Defog from being used starting from the turn after they acquire Assault Vest. Even if they have Defog as a trademark, they won't be able to heal themselves so they'll be repeatedly worn down every time they switch in.

If opponent doesn't have anyway to remove entry hazards, then my next targets would be any bulky wall that relies on support moves such as Ferrothorn, Blissey, Clefable, etc.

I'm not bothering with Will-o-wisp since Heal Bell/Aromatherapy trademarks are so common.

Mew @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: taunt
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn


Maybe my opponent has more than one wall or even two Defoggers. If that's the case, Mew can shut them down once Gourgeist has done its job. This Mew also beats Imprison Mews easily. Knock Off can remove Heavy-Duty Boots but be careful not to remove their Assault Vest if Gourgeist has already switched in. Sucker Punch works pretty well with Taunt if priority is needed.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: softboiled
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell


Healing trademarks like Softboiled are Regenerator on steroids and Blissey still has Wish if she needs to heal again. This Pokemon absorbs special attacks reliably. I went max Special Defense to take on all those Nasty Plot trademarks. Sure physical attacks hurt a lot more, but you can use Protect to scout for mixed attacking sets and switch appropriately.

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: haze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
- Toxic Spikes


You gotta have Haze for all that stat-boosting in this meta. Min Speed for Trick Room teams.

Eldegoss @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: cottonguard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain

A very underrated Pokemon. It walls some pretty threatening physical attackers like Dracozolt, Dracovish, Zygarde, Landorus-T, and even Regigigas. Rapid Spin away hazards from your side while using the rest of the moves to keep its health up.

Importable: https://pokepast.es/fb27acfdec9c35dd
 

Attachments

It's about 2/3 into the month, which means the meta only has a week or so until its main ladder is removed, and thus the main way of playing it is gone. Unlike a lot of other OMs I've seen with solid potential, this is one of the few that ended up being fun and interesting, rewarding creativity, but not to the point where people end up running fringe options that no one builds. Here are a few mons I've been using.


Polteageist_EpEc.gif

Boo (Polteageist) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: shellsmash
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Giga Drain

I absolutely love Polteageist. It has a great MU against teams lacking both a defensive Dark AND a defensive Normal type, and even actively punishes people who lazily use Blissely as their special wall, as it can Trick away its Scarf to cripple Blissey and proceed to chunk it with Stored Power, forcing it out. Sometimes, you don't even need to Trick away the Scarf, as SP can 2HKO most Blissey after some chip. It even has a better matchup than one would think against Haze due to Giga Drain and Shadow Ball chipping all of them into 2HKO range, and with minimal team support can dispose of them. Scarf is also good against Transform Mew in case it tries to overpredict with Trick and I lose the Speed tie. Generally a very good and underrated mon able to constantly pressure the opponent.

Milotic_EpEc.gif

Dazzling (Milotic) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: haze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Toxic
- Recover

Milotic, at face value, seems outclassed by the other Haze users: they have better Defense stats, valuable utility moves such as Toxic Spikes, and more general bulk. However, Milotic provides not only consistent and reliable recovery, but Flip Turn. That means that it can provide momentum for a team while being a consistent staying presence in a match with Recover + Scald burns. It can soak up hits from mons like Golisopod, Gengar, and others for days thanks to a hard to abuse defensive typing, great special bulk even when PhyDef, and ability to generate momentum through Flip Turn. Consider using it on a team for its unique qualities.

Flygon_EpEc.gif

Fly Away (Flygon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defog
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Flygon provides some very good role compression to teams. While it's not the only mon to get Defog + a Volt immunity (both Landos get it and are bulkier), it is the only one to get those and Roost, meaning it can reliably be there to Defog stuff away against threats like Charge Zeraora and Np Thundurus-T. The Dragon typing kinda sucks against things like Koko or Xurkitree where you can take a Dazzling Gleam, but it's super good since is gives you a Grass neutrality for taking Grass Knot and a Water neutrality from random Scalds. Having U-Turn is always a plus for keeping momentum or pivoting into a great breaker.

Here are a couple of replays that show what exactly these 3 do (they are a bit long though):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8trademarked-1222845469
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8trademarked-1227964062-b3zg5c2nr1791dmg24ck4yvjukgc7xnpw

Also, the viability rankings are super outdated, anyone know when they will be updated?
 
Skill Swap with the Rest trademark is a fairly reliable way to inflict sleep in this meta and honestly looks kinda busted to me. Even though the opposing mon gets to fully heal in the process, the 2 turns of sleep are typically devastating, and the abilities to sleep multiple mons and bypass opposing Substitutes are also pretty dangerous.

Here are two Rest trademark Skill Swap mons I have had success with:

:ss/mew:
Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: rest
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Skill Swap
- Whirlwind
- Dragon Tail

:ss/victini:
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: rest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Skill Swap
- V-create
- U-turn
- Sleep Talk

(I take no credit for the Mew set; in fact, it is testing bh alt on Pokemon Showdown who first alerted me to this strategy and used this set. I may have changed the EVs, though.)

The Victini set is my own creation: Victini gets to mitigate the drawbacks of Scarf Sleep Talk with a pivot move and one heck of a nuke.

Here are some replays of the Rest trademark Skill Swap strategy in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8trademarked-1227679871

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8trademarked-1227780971-39anld1wt1ypa9xscr7lotsw2dui2fwpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8trademarked-1228431010

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8trademarked-1228436481

The biggest weakness of the Skill Swap Rest strategy is that it doesn't work against opposing mons at 100% health. Get your hazards up, and even then, Boots wearers can be problematic. The strategy working against opposing statused mons might be a double-edged sword.

Entrainment with the Rest trademark looks pretty dangerous, too, although its users aren't as good.

What is the best strategy for more mons suddenly getting a 100% accurate sleep move in this way? Banning Rest as a trademark? Banning Skill Swap and Entrainment? A complex ban? ...Is this less busted and less reminiscent of the sleep trademark bans than I think it is?
 
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Lectrys post incited me to post my weird team based on Tar Shot. It is far from perfect. I think I reached 1250-1300 but still it has a lot of room for improvement (if possible). It is quite bad against a hard TR team or a hard stall team.

Code:
Latios (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: lightscreen
EVs: 240 HP / 96 SpA / 172 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mystical Fire
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind

Coalossal @ Eject Button
Ability: tarshot
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Heat Crash
- Explosion
- Flamethrower
- Rapid Spin

Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: sunnyday
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power

Scizor @ Assault Vest
Ability: defog
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Counter
- U-turn

Stakataka @ Iron Ball
Ability: trickroom
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Body Press
- Heat Crash
- Iron Defense

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Metronome
Ability: nastyplot
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Incinerate
- Volt Switch
Best pokemons in this team are Heatran, Coalossal and Thundurus. Stakataka had iron def as ability, it was great against offensive teams but not so good vs TR, really unsure about this pokemon's ability
Had different versions with Drampa, Falinks (worst pokemon ever), and Venusaur (too weak or too slow, can't have both). I just stopped with this team, if someone wants to build upon this, go on. It's hard to play though.
Maybe someone who plays more defensively can find something to do with that.

EDIT: i said i reached 1400 but no, 1300 with this team lol
 
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I've been playing this a lot recently and I'm pretty confident when I say that there is an appalling thing in the metagame right now and I'm honestly shocked nothing has been done about it.

Trick (and switcheroo but that's less common): This is by far the least enjoyable aspect of Trademarked. Back when we had Megas and Z-moves, I could understand it. We don't. There is no answer to this. Yes being forced to Trick when trademarked can be annoying to work with, as it's involuntary when this move appreciates being used like once or twice, but holy fuck is this annoying. You completely and effortlessly mess up entire strategies. If Corrosive Gas was banned for such capabilities, I don't see how this is any less problematic. Trick doesn't just remove something's item: it replaces it with whatever garbage your opponent feels like giving you. Doubles as a great scouting option as well, as if it didn't have enough going for it. Not fun to play against and incredibly strong.

I don't think there's any one strategy as difficult to counterplay than this. Fast teams get demolished by Trick Room, which can struggle with any Substitute user, and those have to worry about potential phasers and stallers or anything that can just blow past a Sub. Wisp and Glare users can be annoying but I know I could just add a cleric and fix that. Set-up spam is completely shut down by using Hazers, Defense boosters, and even niche options like Ditto or Psych Up. Terrain abusing team? Add Defog, or your own terrain user, there's plenty and you have 4 terrains to choose from. Weather teams have to deal with other weathers or simply struggle to get past other HO styles like Trick Room. If people have trademarked hazards you can trademark hazard control: even then, trademarking something like Stealth Rock means that it doesn't do anything if Rocks are already up.

What do you do about Trick? The best options are:
  1. Have a Substitute already up.
  2. Switch your Trick user into their Trick user.
There's more options like running Wonder Room or Fling, but at that point it's pretty clear how constraining Trick is on teambuilding.
 
After some discussion (and some procrastination on my part), Fairy Lock is now banned from trademarked.

Though its only user is klefki who admittedly isnt the most bulky, it still carries one of the best defensive typings in the game, allowing it to at least stomache a hit (or just easily come in on a more defensive mon). Ontop of this , because of how trademarks work mechanically fairy lock traps for an additional turn, which allows it to function similar to any other trapping move as a trademark but with merely a smaller timer (which still functions well when you can bring in one of many hard hitters to deal with certain mons or bring in something that can prepare to sweep once you get the proper counter/ checks out).

so for these reasons once again it is now banned .

tagging Kris to implement this.
 
Just adding onto this to point out that the way Trademarked is coded, if a Klefki uses Fairy Lock on turn 0 (or after a pokemon dies), that Pokémon will be trapped on both turn 1 AND turn 2 (or for 2 turns after a pokemon dies). This leads to some degenerate shenanigans with Shed Shell Klefki — it can switch out into a counter and pick stuff off for free.
 
Ladder is kinda dead nowadays so here's a kinda-meme'd kinda-good lil core I've had fun with:


Jirachi @ Assault Vest
Ability: lifedew
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Doom Desire
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn


Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: metalsound
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- U-turn
- Tri Attack

Pretty straightforward, a spdef core that nukes stuff via Doom Desire + Metal Sound debuff. Steel type Boomburst obviously hits really hard against targets with -2 spdef:

252+ SpA Jirachi Doom Desire vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Xurkitree: 207-244 (67.4 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (-1 from Charge boost + metal sound)
252+ SpA Jirachi Doom Desire vs. -2 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 322-381 (45 - 53.3%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Jirachi Doom Desire vs. -2 252 HP / 4 SpD Regigigas: 385-454 (90.8 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Both mons get switches easily, and Jirachi's U-turn can confirm the defense drop on the intended DD target so you don't have to worry about switch order. Pair them with some Roar users to alternatively bring random targets into the Doom Desire (and also to ruin the days of sneaky Memento/Trick users!) for even more fun, and of course you can do the usual Future Sight/Doom Desire strategy and bring in another attacker for a double attack the next turn. It's a pretty versatile tool that helps vs a lot of playstyles!
 
For a set that's more useful than fun or overpowered, here's one of my favourite Power Swap users in the meta, Power Swap Grimmsnarl:

:ss/Grimmsnarl:
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: powerswap
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Atk / 64 Def
Adamant Nature
- Spirit Break
- Darkest Lariat
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

This guy is Adamant because I need this OHKO and non-Attack-boosting natures cut into my defences too much:

192+ Atk Grimmsnarl Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Spectrier: 342-404 (100.2 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Grimmsnarl has a shockingly good defensive typing for a Power Swap trademark user, with boosted Poison, Steel, and Fairy sweepers being somewhat uncommon in this meta.

This guy isn't meant to sweep and it gets worn down somewhat easily even with Drain Punch, although opponents often forget that this thing learns Sucker Punch.
 

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