imo replace ground/water with ground/rock because ground/water, while lacking anything truly viable, has several mons that actually function with it, while ground/rock does not
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Type Optimisation
- Thread starter Solarblade
- Start date
- Status
Except that the only Water/Ground Pokémon that can function consistantly is Swampert (UU) and sometimes Quagsire (RU), with only Mega Swampert is truly OU (presumably does to the raise of rain teams thanks to Pelipper's newly earned Drizzle). Other than that, I can see where you talking from.
Not really, Gastrodon has a considerable niche in OU, checking Tapu Koko, Gengar, Scarf Lele, LO Kyurem-B, Magearna and many Special Attackers. Quagsire has a niche on some stall teams as a Unaware user but I'll have to agree it is indeed pretty mediocre and Mega Swampert is as much of a need on rain as Duggy is on stall, which means its really damn good for rain. So, for sure, Swampert isnt the only Water / Ground that functions consistently, as for Rock / Ground, well there's no mon with any niche in OU with that typing as far as I'm concerned :P so if anything Water / Ground is more consistent then Rock / Ground.
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I included Ground / Water to have a defensive type in the mix, though I can change it to Ground / Rock
ground/rock is in way more need of help than any of those types (except maybe ground/grass), it has a grand total of NO VIABLE POKEMON despite being a really good typing and having multiple lines
one OU mon >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ground/rock's current state
Ok voting is over!
Congratulations to Solarblade's Dark Zoroark, Ludicrousity's Dark/Fire Incineroar and Exploudit's Dark/Bug Accelgor!
Time for the next slate, so I'll throw a bone and go Ground. That said, I've been doing a new type combo for the third one so I'll just replace that with a new type combo we haven't had before. So introducing:
Ground, Ground/Rock and Ground/Fighting
Submissions end 19th of September
Congratulations to Solarblade's Dark Zoroark, Ludicrousity's Dark/Fire Incineroar and Exploudit's Dark/Bug Accelgor!
Time for the next slate, so I'll throw a bone and go Ground. That said, I've been doing a new type combo for the third one so I'll just replace that with a new type combo we haven't had before. So introducing:
Ground, Ground/Rock and Ground/Fighting
Submissions end 19th of September
Reserving Ground-Type Mudsdale, Ground/Rock Alolan Dugtrio and Ground/Fignthing Sandslash
Pokemon: Hitmonchan
Type: Fighting/Ground
BST: 78(+28)/165(+60)/107(+28)/35/113(+3)/72(-4) (570)
Abilities: Iron Fist, Adaptability
New Moves: Spikes, Shadow Punch, Meteor Mash
Removed Moves: None
Justification/Niche: A bulky attacker. With a scary 160 base attack stat and two great abilities, it will leave a dent in most pokemon. Backed up with great coverage, Hitmonchan is going to be unpredictable in which moveset it’s running. It also have a pretty well rounded defense stats with78/107/113.
Sample moveset:
Agility Set
Hitmonchan (M) @ Any Item
Ability: Iron Fist/Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch/Close Combat
- Agility
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch
This set is too boost its mediocre speed to more usable levels. For the item, you can run almost anything.
Hitmonchan (M) @ Any Item
Ability: Iron Fist/Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch/Close Combat
- Agility
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch
This set is too boost its mediocre speed to more usable levels. For the item, you can run almost anything.
Pokemon: Raticate
Type: Ground
BST: 62/156/75/50/85/127 (555)
Abilities: Sand Rush, Sand Force, Limber
New Moves: Earthquake, Close Combat, Stone Edge
Removed Moves: Flame Wheel
Justification/Niche: A speedy ground mouse. It may be little but don’t let its size fool you. This hit extremely hard and it is pretty fast as well. For its ability, it either become faster or its earthquake hit way harder than it already does while in the sand.
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Pokemon:
Type: Ground/Rock
BST: 115/140/130/55/90/40 (570)
Abilities: Sap Sipper/Dry Skin (Solid Rock)
New Moves: Shore Up, Accelerock
Justification: New Rhyperior only gains 35 SpDef statwise, and some really good supplemental STABs in Shore Up and Accelerock to smack hard. The real power of Rhyperior is mind games! MIND GAMES! Do you try and wash it away? Whoops! That's a heal for it! Guess you gave Rhyperior a free turn to do ANYTHING IT WANTS! Grass immune? Uhoh! Guess it just got stronger, goes great with his Accelerock and makes a great Mega Venusaur counter unless it carries HP Ice (which still barely 3HKOs SpDef versions. Tapu Bulu cannot stop Rhyperior without Super Power (and due to the stat drop it likely won't 2H KO unless it gets an SD in, in which case it has a chance to kill it.) As a water stopper, it gives Gyarados (without Mega Stone) a bad time, Keldeo is glad it has fight STAB and Azumarill can't switch in if the Rhino beast has Poison Jab or Thunderpunch unless it has Superpower to attempt a 2h KO. Manaphy needs energy ball, but again, it isn't a 1HKO against Rhyperior with some SpDef, and there's still the risk of guessing the wrong ability. I must emphasize the Mind Games. Volcanion (especially with his new type change) has no business trying to even switch in or it'll get rocked hard!
Sample moveset:
Thing about Rhyperior is that, with its boosts, its movepool options are as big as it is. You wanna do an SD Accelerock set? How about one made defensive Rain Team that fakes out enemy grassers with Sap Sipper (With Aqua Tail to get that watery PseudoSTAB). Maybe a Life Orb Shore Up set? There are options here. A lot of them! To avoid walls of text, I'm just gonna leave it at that.
Pokemon:
Type: Ground/Fight
BST: 100/95/105/55/100/85 (540)
Abilities: Skill Link/Rock Head (Intimidate)
New Moves: Bullet Seed, Rock Blast, Mach Punch
Justification: This buffed Oedipus boner is a fighter worthy of distinguishing itself from its Alolan Form! With slightly more attack and better speed (though not enough to be broken) and defenses, this thing can finally take advantage of the Bone Club they way it was meant to be abused. Wanna try a freaky BellyMach set? You should be able to survive if you switch in on the right monster. Sadly this thing still lacks recovery, but it doesn't have to Thick Club sweep. With 100/105/100 defenses, it won't just roll over and die like it used to, even if it has common weaknesses of Grass, Ice, Water, Fairy, Flying and Psychic. Skill Link I figured was an obvious way to make Bone Rush incredibly useful, so adding some Rock Blast to the mix only helps. The only things resistant to Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Bone Rush are Grass/Fight and Grass/Ground, so in total, 3 Pokemon! The fact that this thing alone gained over 100 BST is enough to make it dangerous. It also doesn't give any fucks about Stealth Rock.
Sample Movesets:
Pokemon:
Type: Ground
BST: 110/130/130/40/100/60 (570)
Abilities: Sturdy/Sap Sipper (Sand Rush)
New Moves: Shore Up, Dragon Dance
Justification: Healing alone would give Donny a new lease on life, the added SpDef is icing on the cake! Sap Sipper is also great for stopping the likes of Venusaur. But what happens when you fake your opponent out and then go on a Sand Rush? Well... it's not the best Sand Rusher. 60 Speed is far from horrendous, but it's outrunnable. Of course, as unthematic as it is (though a lobster can get it,) Dragon Dance helps patch up many problems. After one dance, it gets to move pretty damn well first in the sand. After 2? Faster still! Even with all of this, Donphan has a great utility and with Sap Sipper, is an even better stop to Tapu Bulu than Rhyperior that I slated above (though the former is a better Water stopper by far.)
Sample Movesets:
Type: Ground/Rock
BST: 115/140/130/55/90/40 (570)
Abilities: Sap Sipper/Dry Skin (Solid Rock)
New Moves: Shore Up, Accelerock
Justification: New Rhyperior only gains 35 SpDef statwise, and some really good supplemental STABs in Shore Up and Accelerock to smack hard. The real power of Rhyperior is mind games! MIND GAMES! Do you try and wash it away? Whoops! That's a heal for it! Guess you gave Rhyperior a free turn to do ANYTHING IT WANTS! Grass immune? Uhoh! Guess it just got stronger, goes great with his Accelerock and makes a great Mega Venusaur counter unless it carries HP Ice (which still barely 3HKOs SpDef versions. Tapu Bulu cannot stop Rhyperior without Super Power (and due to the stat drop it likely won't 2H KO unless it gets an SD in, in which case it has a chance to kill it.) As a water stopper, it gives Gyarados (without Mega Stone) a bad time, Keldeo is glad it has fight STAB and Azumarill can't switch in if the Rhino beast has Poison Jab or Thunderpunch unless it has Superpower to attempt a 2h KO. Manaphy needs energy ball, but again, it isn't a 1HKO against Rhyperior with some SpDef, and there's still the risk of guessing the wrong ability. I must emphasize the Mind Games. Volcanion (especially with his new type change) has no business trying to even switch in or it'll get rocked hard!
Sample moveset:
Thing about Rhyperior is that, with its boosts, its movepool options are as big as it is. You wanna do an SD Accelerock set? How about one made defensive Rain Team that fakes out enemy grassers with Sap Sipper (With Aqua Tail to get that watery PseudoSTAB). Maybe a Life Orb Shore Up set? There are options here. A lot of them! To avoid walls of text, I'm just gonna leave it at that.
Pokemon:
Type: Ground/Fight
BST: 100/95/105/55/100/85 (540)
Abilities: Skill Link/Rock Head (Intimidate)
New Moves: Bullet Seed, Rock Blast, Mach Punch
Justification: This buffed Oedipus boner is a fighter worthy of distinguishing itself from its Alolan Form! With slightly more attack and better speed (though not enough to be broken) and defenses, this thing can finally take advantage of the Bone Club they way it was meant to be abused. Wanna try a freaky BellyMach set? You should be able to survive if you switch in on the right monster. Sadly this thing still lacks recovery, but it doesn't have to Thick Club sweep. With 100/105/100 defenses, it won't just roll over and die like it used to, even if it has common weaknesses of Grass, Ice, Water, Fairy, Flying and Psychic. Skill Link I figured was an obvious way to make Bone Rush incredibly useful, so adding some Rock Blast to the mix only helps. The only things resistant to Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Bone Rush are Grass/Fight and Grass/Ground, so in total, 3 Pokemon! The fact that this thing alone gained over 100 BST is enough to make it dangerous. It also doesn't give any fucks about Stealth Rock.
Sample Movesets:
Pokemon:
Type: Ground
BST: 110/130/130/40/100/60 (570)
Abilities: Sturdy/Sap Sipper (Sand Rush)
New Moves: Shore Up, Dragon Dance
Justification: Healing alone would give Donny a new lease on life, the added SpDef is icing on the cake! Sap Sipper is also great for stopping the likes of Venusaur. But what happens when you fake your opponent out and then go on a Sand Rush? Well... it's not the best Sand Rusher. 60 Speed is far from horrendous, but it's outrunnable. Of course, as unthematic as it is (though a lobster can get it,) Dragon Dance helps patch up many problems. After one dance, it gets to move pretty damn well first in the sand. After 2? Faster still! Even with all of this, Donphan has a great utility and with Sap Sipper, is an even better stop to Tapu Bulu than Rhyperior that I slated above (though the former is a better Water stopper by far.)
Sample Movesets:
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Pokemon: Dugtrio-Alola
Type: Ground/Rock
BST: 70/120/75/110/65/130 (570)
Abilities: No Guard / Tangling Hair / Sand Force
New Moves: Power Gem, Head Smash, Gunk Shot
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche: Ground/Rock is a fantastic offensive type, so it deserves to be on an offensive 'mon. No Guard allows it to better exploit Stone Edge and Head Smash, but if you want to use it on Sand, Sand Force may be a good option, potentially even with a special set.
Sample moveset: (optional)
Dugtrio-Alola @ Rockium Z / Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Head Smash
- Gunk Shot
Pokemon:
Type: xx/xx
BST: xx/xx/xx/xx/xx/xx
Abilities: (max of 3)
New Moves: (max of 3)
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
Sample moveset: (optional)
Type: Ground/Rock
BST: 70/120/75/110/65/130 (570)
Abilities: No Guard / Tangling Hair / Sand Force
New Moves: Power Gem, Head Smash, Gunk Shot
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche: Ground/Rock is a fantastic offensive type, so it deserves to be on an offensive 'mon. No Guard allows it to better exploit Stone Edge and Head Smash, but if you want to use it on Sand, Sand Force may be a good option, potentially even with a special set.
Sample moveset: (optional)
Dugtrio-Alola @ Rockium Z / Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Head Smash
- Gunk Shot
Pokemon:
Type: xx/xx
BST: xx/xx/xx/xx/xx/xx
Abilities: (max of 3)
New Moves: (max of 3)
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
Sample moveset: (optional)
Pokemon: Mudsdale
Type: Ground/Fighting
BST: 110/155/120/55/85/45
Abilities: Stamina, Solid Rock (Defiant)
New Moves: Stone Edge, Stealth Rock, Jump Kick
Removed Moves:
Justification/Niche: Mudsdale is based on a draft horse, and it learns a lot of Fighting type moves.
Pokemon: Golem
Type: Rock/Ground
BST: 90/130/150/55/65/80
Abilities: Sturdy, Rock Head (Bulletproof)
New Moves: Head Smash
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche: Golem is known for rolling, so I boosted its speed. Bulletproof was added due to the Pokedex stating that even dynamite can't harm it.
Pokemon: Kangaskhan
Type: Ground
BST: 115 (+10) / 120 (+25) / 95 (+15) / 40 / 95 (+15) / 105 (+15) = 570 BST
Abilities: Mold Breaker / Defiant / Friend Guard (HA)
New Moves: Stealth Rock, Bulk Up, Stone Edge
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification/Niche: 120 Attack, 115/95/95 bulk, 105 Speed, 2 great abilities, and a giant movepool. What's not to love about this new and improved Kangaskhan? You can run offensive with Bulk Up, EdgeQuake, Elemental Punches, Sucker Punch, Aqua and Iron Tail, and a bunch of Fighting-type moves with Levitate-ignoring Mold Breaker or Lando wrecking Defiant for sweeping. Or, perhaps, run defensive with Wish, Stealth Rock, Disable, and Circle Throw as a not passive hazard setter that can beat hazard removers easily. Kangaskhan is quite versatile, just like real life moms!
All-Out Attacker:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch / Fire Punch / Drain Punch
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Drain Punch
Bulk Up:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant / Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Bulk Up
- Wish
- Ice Punch / Protect
Defensive:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD (insert good spread)
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Protect / Circle Throw
Kangaskhan (F) @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch / Fire Punch / Drain Punch
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Drain Punch
Bulk Up:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant / Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Bulk Up
- Wish
- Ice Punch / Protect
Defensive:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD (insert good spread)
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Protect / Circle Throw
Pokemon: S U D O W O O D O
Type: Ground/Rock
BST: 90 (+20) / 130 (+30) / 150 (+40) / 30 / 105 (+40) / 65 (+35) = 570 BST
Abilities: Sap Sipper / Sturdy / Rock Head (HA)
New Moves: Swords Dance, Seed Bomb, Shore Up
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification/Niche: WIP
Defensive:
Sudowoodo @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Toxic / Stone Edge
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock
Fast Swords Dance:
Sudowoodo @ Rockium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance
Bulky SD / Stallbreaker:
Sudowoodo @ Rockium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Substitute / Taunt
- Shore Up
- Swords Dance
Sudowoodo @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Toxic / Stone Edge
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock
Fast Swords Dance:
Sudowoodo @ Rockium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance
Bulky SD / Stallbreaker:
Sudowoodo @ Rockium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Substitute / Taunt
- Shore Up
- Swords Dance
Dropping Pardos reservation
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Pokémon: Diggersby
Type:
BST: 105/70/87/40/87/84 (Total: 473)
Abilities: Pickup | Cheek Pouch | Huge Power (HA)
New Moves: Extreme Speed, Waterfall, Poison Jab
Justification/Niche: Basically a moderately buffed Diggersby that will make better use of Huge Power while still being faithful to its old play style (while sacrificing Normal-type, which is why I added Extreme Speed to compensate). Extra coverage moves such as Waterfall and Poison Jab will also help to do the job well.
Pokémon: Lycanroc-Midnight
Type:
BST: 95/130/75/85/80/105 (Total: 570)
Abilities: Technician | Strong Jaw | No Guard (HA)
New Moves: High Jump Kick, Earthquake, Accelerock
Justification/Niche: Since the Midday Lycanroc had been Optimized, why not the Midnight Lycanroc? With a brutal Base Attack of 130 and now access to Accelerock, this werewolf will show no mercy. It got High Jump Kick to accommodate with its new Fighting-type, with No Guard kept to keep this move and Stone Edge good. Or it can also use Strong Jaw to make the coverage moves Crunch, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang or if you likes Flinching, Bite harder, or use Technician to use its less powerful moves for better use, such as Rock Tomb, Accelerock, and Bite (this move have 30% to flinch fyi).
Pokémon: Rhyperior
Type:
BST: 115/145/130/30/90/60 (Total: 570)
Abilities: Sand Stream | Solid Rock | Sap Sipper (HA)
New Moves: Accelerock, Horn Leech, Shell Smash
Justification/Niche: While Ground/Rock remains quite a bad typing, it got Sand Stream to compensate, and while not having a better Special Defense than Tyranitar, the Optimized Rhyperior have better physical bulk and better Attack. It also got Shell Smash that fixes its low Speed along with Accelerock as a priority move, and Horn Leech to combat Water-types and other Ground-types (while also serves as a recovery move when used right). This anthropomorphic rhinoceros is no more a pushover, at least compared to the official version!
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Zebstrika
Stats: 74 / 151 / 74 / 50 / 74 / 74 (497 BST)
Abilities: Sap Sipper, Strom Drain, Speed Boost (HA)
New Moves: Earthquake, Stone Edge, Stealth Rock
Justification/Niche: Clean Speed Boost sweeper with an outstanding Attack stat, but a lack of initial Speed, bulk, and access to Attack boosting moves makes it struggle a bit when trying to set up.
Rampardos
Stats: 97 / 165 / 60 / 64 / 60 / 109 (555 BST)
Abilities: Rock Head, Mold Breaker, Sheer Force (HA)
New Moves: Spikes, U-turn
Justification/Niche: Just a simple Ground-typing and a Speed Boost already makes this monster twice as scary! Nearly perfect neutral coverage and 150 BP Head Smashes from base 165 Attack and 109 Speed? Do I even need to say anything? On the other hand, any hit it makes pretty much makes it dead. Just look at that abysmall bulk along with one of the worst defensive typings in the entire game. Also, it is weak to almost every priority move: Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Water Shuriken, Vacuum Wave...
Chesnaught
Stats: 88 / 137 / 112 / 74 / 75 / 84 (570 BST)
Abilities: Rough Skin, Bulletproof (HA)
New Moves: Close Combat, Earthquake, Stealth Rock
Justification/Niche: A clean Belly Drum wallbreaker with great bulk, great offensive typing and amazing coverage on STABs + Stone Edge. Unfortunately, it has no priority and mediocre Speed, forcing it to rely on tons of support to work properly.
Stats: 74 / 151 / 74 / 50 / 74 / 74 (497 BST)
Abilities: Sap Sipper, Strom Drain, Speed Boost (HA)
New Moves: Earthquake, Stone Edge, Stealth Rock
Justification/Niche: Clean Speed Boost sweeper with an outstanding Attack stat, but a lack of initial Speed, bulk, and access to Attack boosting moves makes it struggle a bit when trying to set up.
Rampardos
Stats: 97 / 165 / 60 / 64 / 60 / 109 (555 BST)
Abilities: Rock Head, Mold Breaker, Sheer Force (HA)
New Moves: Spikes, U-turn
Justification/Niche: Just a simple Ground-typing and a Speed Boost already makes this monster twice as scary! Nearly perfect neutral coverage and 150 BP Head Smashes from base 165 Attack and 109 Speed? Do I even need to say anything? On the other hand, any hit it makes pretty much makes it dead. Just look at that abysmall bulk along with one of the worst defensive typings in the entire game. Also, it is weak to almost every priority move: Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Water Shuriken, Vacuum Wave...
Chesnaught
Stats: 88 / 137 / 112 / 74 / 75 / 84 (570 BST)
Abilities: Rough Skin, Bulletproof (HA)
New Moves: Close Combat, Earthquake, Stealth Rock
Justification/Niche: A clean Belly Drum wallbreaker with great bulk, great offensive typing and amazing coverage on STABs + Stone Edge. Unfortunately, it has no priority and mediocre Speed, forcing it to rely on tons of support to work properly.
kudos to Solarblade for giving me one pity vote
also, images coming soon, its 9:24 and i desperately want sleep
Pokemon: Golurk
Type: Ground
New Stats: 120 (+31) / 144 (+20) / 100 (+20) / 55 / 100 (+20) / 51 (-4) (570 BST)
Old Stats: 89 / 124 / 80 / 55 / 80 / 55 (483 BST)
Abilities: No Guard / Sheer Force / Poison Heal (HA)
New Moves: Gunk Shot, Wood Hammer, Shore Up
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
Golurk lacks in standard comp play due to a lackluster typing that leaves it weak to common Dark, Water, and Ice-type moves, a few alright resistances but an awkward set, poor defensive stats for the metagame, and, despite having a wide moveset, can struggle to use it due to these shortcomings. Fixing that isn't easy, either. his Attack appreciates a buff to now-standard levels, and his HP, Defense, and Special Defense need pretty huge overhauls. For Abilities, Sheer Force makes up for the lack of Iron Fist, giving Golurk more moves that get boosted by one of its abilities. No Guard Gunk Shot, Dynamic Punch, and Stone Edge are still viable strategies. Shore Up allows him to stay in the game longer with a less troublesome Ground typing.
Sample Moveset: Soon
(Ok, preface here before Rhyperior shows up. I honestly have no other Ground/Rock types I'd want to fix, but I just glanced up and realized there's more Rhyperiors here than I first thought. My intention, however, is NOT to create a Rhyperior that relies on removing its weaknesses through Sap Sipper or Dry Skin - Rather, to create a more offensively viable Rhyperior that relies less on removing those weaknesses and more on punishing things that think they can now take on Newperior and getting their face kicked in. Can swap out if there's too many, though - these don't take long to create.)
Pokemon: Rhyperior
Type: Ground/Rock
New Stats: 135 (+20) / 145 (+5) / 135 (+5) / 35 (-20) / 85 (+30) / 35 (-5) (570 BST)
Old Stats: 115 / 140 / 130 / 55 / 55 / 40 (535 BST)
Abilities: Tough Claws / Solid Rock / Sand Force (HA)
New Moves: Accelerock, Bulk Up, Shore Up
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
When you think of Rhyperior... What do you think of first? Its god-awful typing only made slightly better by Solid Rock, still forcing you to take a bunch of extra damage? Is it that speed stat that is extremely pathetic, even by today's tank standards? Is it that lack of other ability or really any moveset besides Ground STAB/Rock STAB/Stealth Rock/Filler? Well, here I am to fix that a bit! Improving his HP and Special Defense to proper tank levels allows him, with Solid Rock, to do what he was intended to do - tank hits, even with a poor defensive typing - and his much higher Special Defense can be very much so passable with an Assault Vest, letting it take on weaker Water and Grass types for once. Tough Claws gives him a very well appreciated boost to most of his attacks not named Stone Edge or Earthquake, while Sand Force is a gimmick possible by the improved Special Defense, access to Shore Up, and the fact it gains +1 SpDef, in essence, in Sandstorm. Accelerock gives it the first-acting move it has desperately wanted since its introduction, and Bulk Up gives it a way of becoming a strong Wincon with a Special Defensive set - although Swords Dance may still cast shadows over Bulk Up, Bulk Up allows Rhyperior to take on threats like Terrakion and new Hariyama who may otherwise just switch in on a free turn and click Close Combat, ending Rhyperior's playtime. A slightly reduced Speed doesn't hurt much, and actually makes it better for Trick Room, where Tough Claws alongside moves like the Elemental Punches and Megahorn can punch holes in things its dual STAB and Gunk Shot can't hit.
Sample moveset: Soon
Pokemon: Conkeldurr
Type: Ground/Fighting
New Stats: 125 (+20) / 140 / 125 (+30) / 55 / 75 (+10) / 45 (565 BST)
Old Stats: 105 / 140 / 95 / 55 / 65 / 45 (505 BST)
Abilities: Guts / Iron Fist / Sheer Force (HA)
New Moves: Iron Head, Bullet Punch, Parting Shot
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
Conkeldurr actually isn't that bad in standard play, and I have very fond memories of Gen 5 and 6 of using Life Orb Sheer Force Conkeldurr during the initial one, as well as Sub Punch, and then Assault Vest on my secondary team during Gen 6, only removed once I realized how busted Azumarill was on my team. But nowadays, Conkeldurr is in the shadow of more popular fighting types like Terrakion, Keldeo, Lopunny, and even Hawlucha for goodness sake, due to a lackluster Speed stat, pure Fighting being mediocre offensively and defensively (compared to dual typings, solo wise its one of the better ones offensively), and a movepool that tends to make it have problems depending on what option it has to drop. With Earthquake now in its 'extremely viable' options, it doesn't need to worry about certain defensive typings that previously may have enjoyed not having to take SE damage from Drain Punch or Superpower (notably Electric, Fire, and extremely notably Poison types). Toxapex now fears Conkeldurr's highly damaging Earthquake, despite its Scalds it may even increase its power through Guts. Iron Head and Bullet Punch give it niche ways of dealing with Fairies, who still tend to give it trouble, and while Bullet Punch gives nice priority to deal with them, you sacrifice a moveslot to do so, making it a forced choice. Parting Shot's also a cool option allowing for Darkinium sets or just a way to pivot out, something Conkeldurr didn't have previously. A boosted defensive Stat total also is nice, and a much higher Defense stat makes it fear far less the physical prowess of opposing Pokemon like Terrakion and Lopunny. It also gives Conkeldurr a niche - one of the few viable Fighting-types that isn't completely offensively based.
also, look guys, i know how to not put shore up on a ground type i swear i do
Sample moveset: Do I need to say Soon again?
also, images coming soon, its 9:24 and i desperately want sleep
Pokemon: Golurk
Type: Ground
New Stats: 120 (+31) / 144 (+20) / 100 (+20) / 55 / 100 (+20) / 51 (-4) (570 BST)
Old Stats: 89 / 124 / 80 / 55 / 80 / 55 (483 BST)
Abilities: No Guard / Sheer Force / Poison Heal (HA)
New Moves: Gunk Shot, Wood Hammer, Shore Up
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
Golurk lacks in standard comp play due to a lackluster typing that leaves it weak to common Dark, Water, and Ice-type moves, a few alright resistances but an awkward set, poor defensive stats for the metagame, and, despite having a wide moveset, can struggle to use it due to these shortcomings. Fixing that isn't easy, either. his Attack appreciates a buff to now-standard levels, and his HP, Defense, and Special Defense need pretty huge overhauls. For Abilities, Sheer Force makes up for the lack of Iron Fist, giving Golurk more moves that get boosted by one of its abilities. No Guard Gunk Shot, Dynamic Punch, and Stone Edge are still viable strategies. Shore Up allows him to stay in the game longer with a less troublesome Ground typing.
Sample Moveset: Soon
(Ok, preface here before Rhyperior shows up. I honestly have no other Ground/Rock types I'd want to fix, but I just glanced up and realized there's more Rhyperiors here than I first thought. My intention, however, is NOT to create a Rhyperior that relies on removing its weaknesses through Sap Sipper or Dry Skin - Rather, to create a more offensively viable Rhyperior that relies less on removing those weaknesses and more on punishing things that think they can now take on Newperior and getting their face kicked in. Can swap out if there's too many, though - these don't take long to create.)
Pokemon: Rhyperior
Type: Ground/Rock
New Stats: 135 (+20) / 145 (+5) / 135 (+5) / 35 (-20) / 85 (+30) / 35 (-5) (570 BST)
Old Stats: 115 / 140 / 130 / 55 / 55 / 40 (535 BST)
Abilities: Tough Claws / Solid Rock / Sand Force (HA)
New Moves: Accelerock, Bulk Up, Shore Up
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
When you think of Rhyperior... What do you think of first? Its god-awful typing only made slightly better by Solid Rock, still forcing you to take a bunch of extra damage? Is it that speed stat that is extremely pathetic, even by today's tank standards? Is it that lack of other ability or really any moveset besides Ground STAB/Rock STAB/Stealth Rock/Filler? Well, here I am to fix that a bit! Improving his HP and Special Defense to proper tank levels allows him, with Solid Rock, to do what he was intended to do - tank hits, even with a poor defensive typing - and his much higher Special Defense can be very much so passable with an Assault Vest, letting it take on weaker Water and Grass types for once. Tough Claws gives him a very well appreciated boost to most of his attacks not named Stone Edge or Earthquake, while Sand Force is a gimmick possible by the improved Special Defense, access to Shore Up, and the fact it gains +1 SpDef, in essence, in Sandstorm. Accelerock gives it the first-acting move it has desperately wanted since its introduction, and Bulk Up gives it a way of becoming a strong Wincon with a Special Defensive set - although Swords Dance may still cast shadows over Bulk Up, Bulk Up allows Rhyperior to take on threats like Terrakion and new Hariyama who may otherwise just switch in on a free turn and click Close Combat, ending Rhyperior's playtime. A slightly reduced Speed doesn't hurt much, and actually makes it better for Trick Room, where Tough Claws alongside moves like the Elemental Punches and Megahorn can punch holes in things its dual STAB and Gunk Shot can't hit.
Sample moveset: Soon
Pokemon: Conkeldurr
Type: Ground/Fighting
New Stats: 125 (+20) / 140 / 125 (+30) / 55 / 75 (+10) / 45 (565 BST)
Old Stats: 105 / 140 / 95 / 55 / 65 / 45 (505 BST)
Abilities: Guts / Iron Fist / Sheer Force (HA)
New Moves: Iron Head, Bullet Punch, Parting Shot
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
Conkeldurr actually isn't that bad in standard play, and I have very fond memories of Gen 5 and 6 of using Life Orb Sheer Force Conkeldurr during the initial one, as well as Sub Punch, and then Assault Vest on my secondary team during Gen 6, only removed once I realized how busted Azumarill was on my team. But nowadays, Conkeldurr is in the shadow of more popular fighting types like Terrakion, Keldeo, Lopunny, and even Hawlucha for goodness sake, due to a lackluster Speed stat, pure Fighting being mediocre offensively and defensively (compared to dual typings, solo wise its one of the better ones offensively), and a movepool that tends to make it have problems depending on what option it has to drop. With Earthquake now in its 'extremely viable' options, it doesn't need to worry about certain defensive typings that previously may have enjoyed not having to take SE damage from Drain Punch or Superpower (notably Electric, Fire, and extremely notably Poison types). Toxapex now fears Conkeldurr's highly damaging Earthquake, despite its Scalds it may even increase its power through Guts. Iron Head and Bullet Punch give it niche ways of dealing with Fairies, who still tend to give it trouble, and while Bullet Punch gives nice priority to deal with them, you sacrifice a moveslot to do so, making it a forced choice. Parting Shot's also a cool option allowing for Darkinium sets or just a way to pivot out, something Conkeldurr didn't have previously. A boosted defensive Stat total also is nice, and a much higher Defense stat makes it fear far less the physical prowess of opposing Pokemon like Terrakion and Lopunny. It also gives Conkeldurr a niche - one of the few viable Fighting-types that isn't completely offensively based.
also, look guys, i know how to not put shore up on a ground type i swear i do
Sample moveset: Do I need to say Soon again?
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One thing about Conkeldurr; at least he is still better than pre-Optimization Hariyama. Though the now-Optimized Hariyama now overshadows him (and potentially every Fighting-type does to insane bulk of 150/100/100 and Unaware). And with Unaware, Optimized Hariyama can laugh at potential-Rhyperior's Bulk Up boost, but otherwise the latter strategy works, FYI.
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There sure are a lot of Rhyperiors about. In any case Evanile the idea isn't about just slapping a mindless immunity on, it's abut playing mind games. Suppose you send in your water type then I safely switch Rhyperior in too. The opponent is going to assume water immunity and go for his grass type. He sure will feel outplayed when it's actually a sap sipper who then proceeds to get a free turn to do anything from SD to setting up rocks. Again I must emphasize the mind games you can play. It's not what Rhys does for your team, it's what he does to the enemy player state of mind. It's mind game is countered by rain or sun as you'll know which it is by if it's health moves. Besides forcing a water type to use ice vs your newly boosted SpDef can be satisfying.
Also you claim Golurk is weak to fight moves... as a ghost?
Also you claim Golurk is weak to fight moves... as a ghost?
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One, I never said that it was 'mindlessly' slapping an immunity on, but everyone else's concept was to do so. Sure, there's a 'mindgame', but it removes some skill away from the Rhyperior player because they're allowed to play more riskily because the opponent will have no clue what to expect. Not something I wanted to use/create.
And second off, made the post at 9 PM, with barely any hours of sleep the previous night. I've fixed it, since what I wanted was Dark considering Knock Off exists.
Could do with being less rude with that post, goodness.
I will say though, my current favorite ones are Exploudit's Zebstrika, since I love full retypes rather than just changing 1 type, especially ones that change it into a type that otherwise you wouldn't think of, and Yoshiblaze's Kangaskhan because I like versatility.
Pokemon: Sandslash
Type: Ground/Ground
BST: 95/100/110/45/95/75 (+20/±0/±0/±0/+40/+10) Total: 520
Abilities: Sand Force/Sand Force/Sand Rush
New Moves: Shore Up
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: Sandslash only needed one thing to fit into the role of defensive ground-type spinner: Recovery. Shore up is everything it ever wanted, and more. With its 95/110/95 bulk, great sand abilities, and reliable recovery, it is now the defensive version of Excadrill in a ttar-exca core. Sandslash was chosen instead of Donphan for this because I wanted it to keep Sand Rush, and I wanted it to be straight-forward, which Donphan's wonky coverage options didn't help with.
Sample moveset:
Sandslash @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force / Sand Rush
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Shore Up
- Toxic / Knock Off / Stone Edge
Defensive ground-type spinner AKA Donphan with recovery. Nothing else to say here.
Pokemon: Onix
Type: Rock/Ground
BST: 75/65/150/20/85/115 (+40/+20/-10/-10/+40/+45) Total: 510
Abilities: Rock Head/Sturdy/Regenerator
New Moves: Mirror Coat, Head Smash (I have to be careful with giving Onix new moves here, as that'd affect Steelix too)
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: When I started this slate I thought "what rock/ground has a niche that could actually be useful if the mon itself wasn't garbage", and Onix immediately came to mind. When I started thinking how to buff it, I drew parallels with Scyther - They both evolve via Metal Coat, they both have a huge upgrade in their typing when they do so, and in Scyther's case, it doesn't actually gain stats - its stats get redistributed instead. There, I knew what to do: Buff Onix to 510 BST while making it as min-maxy as possible. So I went with the stat changes above. Now it has physical bulk in the same ballpark as Chansey's special bulk. Of course, without a form of recovery, all that physical bulk would be wasted. However, I can't recklessly give Onix recovery moves because then I'd also be giving Steelix recovery. So I went with the only non-move recovery that I could give Onix: Regenerator.
All this just so we could have a useful fast wall with a bad typing. On the plus side, you can spam Head Smash if you like being outclassed by Tyrantrum.
Type: Ground/Ground
BST: 95/100/110/45/95/75 (+20/±0/±0/±0/+40/+10) Total: 520
Abilities: Sand Force/Sand Force/Sand Rush
New Moves: Shore Up
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: Sandslash only needed one thing to fit into the role of defensive ground-type spinner: Recovery. Shore up is everything it ever wanted, and more. With its 95/110/95 bulk, great sand abilities, and reliable recovery, it is now the defensive version of Excadrill in a ttar-exca core. Sandslash was chosen instead of Donphan for this because I wanted it to keep Sand Rush, and I wanted it to be straight-forward, which Donphan's wonky coverage options didn't help with.
Sample moveset:
Sandslash @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force / Sand Rush
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Shore Up
- Toxic / Knock Off / Stone Edge
Defensive ground-type spinner AKA Donphan with recovery. Nothing else to say here.
Pokemon: Onix
Type: Rock/Ground
BST: 75/65/150/20/85/115 (+40/+20/-10/-10/+40/+45) Total: 510
Abilities: Rock Head/Sturdy/Regenerator
New Moves: Mirror Coat, Head Smash (I have to be careful with giving Onix new moves here, as that'd affect Steelix too)
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: When I started this slate I thought "what rock/ground has a niche that could actually be useful if the mon itself wasn't garbage", and Onix immediately came to mind. When I started thinking how to buff it, I drew parallels with Scyther - They both evolve via Metal Coat, they both have a huge upgrade in their typing when they do so, and in Scyther's case, it doesn't actually gain stats - its stats get redistributed instead. There, I knew what to do: Buff Onix to 510 BST while making it as min-maxy as possible. So I went with the stat changes above. Now it has physical bulk in the same ballpark as Chansey's special bulk. Of course, without a form of recovery, all that physical bulk would be wasted. However, I can't recklessly give Onix recovery moves because then I'd also be giving Steelix recovery. So I went with the only non-move recovery that I could give Onix: Regenerator.
All this just so we could have a useful fast wall with a bad typing. On the plus side, you can spam Head Smash if you like being outclassed by Tyrantrum.
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Pokemon: Dugtrio
Type: Ground
BST: 35/110/50/50/70/170 (+50 Speed, +10 Attack) (BST: 475)
Abilities: Mold Breaker, Emergency Exit (Sand Force)
New Moves: Explosion, U-Turn
Removed Moves:
Justification/Niche: With that speed, it's pretty obvious that Dugtrio has a niche simply as the fastest attacker besides Deoxys-S. It also doesn't care about Levitate at all with Mold Breaker, and can now U-Turn out on anything it can't revenge kill. This isn't flashy at all, but it's effective.
Sample moveset:
Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
Really basic attacker. Sucker Punch lets you hurt Priority users, which the new Duggy hates.
Type: Ground
BST: 35/110/50/50/70/170 (+50 Speed, +10 Attack) (BST: 475)
Abilities: Mold Breaker, Emergency Exit (Sand Force)
New Moves: Explosion, U-Turn
Removed Moves:
Justification/Niche: With that speed, it's pretty obvious that Dugtrio has a niche simply as the fastest attacker besides Deoxys-S. It also doesn't care about Levitate at all with Mold Breaker, and can now U-Turn out on anything it can't revenge kill. This isn't flashy at all, but it's effective.
Sample moveset:
Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
Really basic attacker. Sucker Punch lets you hurt Priority users, which the new Duggy hates.
Voting time!
Please use this format and remember to have a vote for each category and remember, you can't vote for yourself. Anyone can vote though!
Ground: Member's Pokemon
Ground/Rock: Member's Pokemon
Ground/Fighting: Member's Pokemon
Voting will be extended since I will be overseas.
Please use this format and remember to have a vote for each category and remember, you can't vote for yourself. Anyone can vote though!
Ground: Member's Pokemon
Ground/Rock: Member's Pokemon
Ground/Fighting: Member's Pokemon
Voting will be extended since I will be overseas.
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First Votes
Ground: Yoshiblase Kangaskhan
Ground/Fighting: Samtendo09 Lycanroc_Midnight
Ground/Rock: HeadsILoseTailsYouWin Onix
Ground: Yoshiblase Kangaskhan
Ground/Fighting: Samtendo09 Lycanroc_Midnight
Ground/Rock: HeadsILoseTailsYouWin Onix
Ayy, maybe I'll get some votes this time around. Really liked my Golurk.
Ground: Exploudit's Zebstrika
Ground/Rock: HeadsILoseTailsYouWin's Onix
Ground/Fighting: Samtendo's Lycanroc-Midnight Form
Ground: Exploudit's Zebstrika
Ground/Rock: HeadsILoseTailsYouWin's Onix
Ground/Fighting: Samtendo's Lycanroc-Midnight Form
Ground: Dilasc's Donphan
Ground/Rock: Exploudit's Rampardos
Ground/Fighting: Santendo09's Midnight Lycanroc
Ground/Rock: Exploudit's Rampardos
Ground/Fighting: Santendo09's Midnight Lycanroc
Oh my gosh I'm so sorry. I totally forgot to finish subs! RIP
- Status