Type Optimisation

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Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
Question: is there anything that needs to be balanced? i noticed a few mons are a bit over the top in terms of playstyle, for instance, Armaldo now has 135 attack and 130 speed, and this occurs with a bunch of other pokemon too (cough cough Glalie)
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
Question: is there anything that needs to be balanced? i noticed a few mons are a bit over the top in terms of playstyle, for instance, Armaldo now has 135 attack and 130 speed, and this occurs with a bunch of other pokemon too (cough cough Glalie)
We are already talking about that, but we already are on a buffing slate right now, giving buff ideas to Pokémon that needs it, and then vote for the most reasonable buffs.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus



Speny's Flying/Fighting Farfetch'd
Old BST
: 52/100(+10)/85(+30)/55/62/120(+60) (477)
Modified BST: 103(+51)/130(+40)/85(+30)/55/62/120(+60) [BST 555]
Abilities: Sniper / Aerilate / Defiant
New Moves: Focus Energy, High Jump Kick, Cross Chop
Justification: I still cannot understand why Farfetch'd was buffed so low. Well now it has ok bulk for an offensive mon, and alot more firepower. Sniper + Stick + Focus Energy is a deadly combo, making it hit REALLY hard. Its all and all much better than it was before (a RU worthy mon)
 
Why is the power creep so ridiculous. Glalie is deoxys-n with a better offensive typing and a different movepool, Snorlax is inheritance snorlax but with increased base stats, Zoroark is azelf on steroids (no explosion though), and Jynx is a straight upgrade to Gengar, and TAIL GLOW MEW NOPE GET ME OUT.

This also ruins a lot of niches, including mandibuzz (hazard control mon that isn't just bisharp fodder), volcanion (weird typing lets it spread burns while not giving a shit about heatran or ferro), and victreebel (chlorophyll sweeper that destroys ferrothorn)

The one thing i saw that I actually felt was balanced was Farfetch'd, and it could actually use a slight nerf down to 90 or 95 base attack.
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
Why is the power creep so ridiculous. Glalie is deoxys-n with a better offensive typing and a different movepool, Snorlax is inheritance snorlax but with increased base stats, Zoroark is azelf on steroids (no explosion though), and Jynx is a straight upgrade to Gengar, and TAIL GLOW MEW NOPE GET ME OUT.

This also ruins a lot of niches, including mandibuzz (hazard control mon that isn't just bisharp fodder), volcanion (weird typing lets it spread burns while not giving a shit about heatran or ferro), and victreebel (chlorophyll sweeper that destroys ferrothorn)

The one thing i saw that I actually felt was balanced was Farfetch'd, and it could actually use a slight nerf down to 90 or 95 base attack.
OU itself had a notable power creep increase. Landorus-T is a constant dominant force with so many roles it can do, Toxapex is a pain in the neck does to great bulk, Recover and Regenerator, the Tapus are dominating Fairy-type, and Greninja remains a threat, with Greninja-Ash added to it not helping the situation.

There will be a nerfing slate, most likely after the Pet Mod Opens had ended. Besides, if we made them much less powerful, they would ended up to be mediocre at worst. Our goal is to make a diverse metagame, but I agree that a few had crossed the line, most notably Glalie.

That said I do not 100% agree with you, as we don't have enough proofs to see if the Power Creep get ridiculous. We still need plenty of testing and a Viability Ranking to see if the Power Creep had increased. And even so, the likes of Landorus-T and Toxapex can still perform well since they performs so well in OU already.
 
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Water Wishiwashi
Stats
: 50 / 100 / 150 / 100 / 150 / 20 (BST 570)
Solo Forme Stats: 50 / 115 / 75 / 115 / 75 / 140 (BST 570)
Abilities: Schooling
New Moves: Aqua Jet, Bulk Up, Calm Mind

Tried a different spin on the form change, making a dual-role Pokemon. School form uses the other Wishiwashi as a shield, allowing you to boost while you still have nice defenses, or do the usual Scald fishing role. If Schooling deactivates, you have a chance to strike back harder with the sudden burst of speed. I was tempted to have Recover if you want to keep a defensive Wishiwashi for longer or boost more but I'm not sure yet..

Electric/Fairy Rotom-Fan
BST:
50 / 65 / 127 / 115 / 127 / 86 (BST: 520)
Abilities: Levitate
New Moves: Moonblast, Parting Shot, Recover

Just a general boost in releant defensive stats and special attack. Who's the worst Rotom now? Better bulk, more offensive presence and also has support options with Parting Shot and even Recover to heal off Rocks damage.

Anyway voting is now open! Post the 'Member's Pokemon' for each Pokemon. Voting lasts 48 hours.

Wigglytuff:
Dedenne:
Guzzlord:
Wishiwashi:
Garbodor:
Lycanroc Midday:
Farfetch'd:
Rotom-Fan:
 

Gravity Monkey

Que des barz comme si jtais au hebs
is a Top Artist
Wigglytuff: Cookie Butter
Dedenne: idk
Guzzlord: Samtendo09
Wishiwashi: PrincessGardevoir
Garbodor: Origin0
Lycanroc Midday: G-Luke
Farfetch'd: G-Luke
Rotom-Fan: Solarblade
 
Wigglytuff: Cookie Butter
Dedenne: PrincessGardevoir
Guzzlord: Samtendo09
Wishiwashi: PrincessGardevoir
Garbodor: PrincessGardevoir
Lycanroc Midday: G-Luke
Farfetch'd: G-Luke
Rotom-Fan: Solarblade
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Wigglytuff: Cookie Butter
Dedenne: PrincessGardevoir
Guzzlord: Samtendo09
Wishiwashi: Solarblade
Garbodor: PrincessGardevoir
Lycanroc Midday: G-Luke
Farfetch'd: G-Luke
Rotom-Fan: Solarblade
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
Wigglytuff: Cookie Butter
Dedenne: PrincessGardevoir
Guzzlord: Samtendo09
Wishiwashi: PrincessGardevoir
Garbodor: PrincessGardevoir
Lycanroc Midday: G-Luke
Farfetch'd: G-Luke
Rotom-Fan: Solarblade

(If we cannot self-vote as always, I will change my vote for the Guzzlord buff)
 
Alright thanks for the votes, here are the winners!

Wigglytuff: Cookie Butter
Dedenne: PrincessGardevoir
Guzzlord: Samtendo09
Wishiwashi: PrincessGardevoir
Garbodor: PrincessGardevoir
Lycanroc Midday: G-Luke
Farfetch'd: G-Luke
Rotom-Fan: Solarblade

For easy reference:


Samtendo09's Ghost/Dragon Guzzlord (originally Yung Drump's)
Abilities:
Beast Boost / Glutonny | Unaware
Modified Stats: 113 (-110) / 71 (-30) / 67 (+14) / 139 (+42) / 67 (+14) / 113 (+70) (570)
Moves: Shadow Ball, Nasty Plot, Slack Off



G-Luke's The Reptile's Rock/Normal Lycanroc-Midday (originally The Reptile's)
Abilities:
Scrappy / Sand Rush / Rock Head (HA)
Modified Stats: 85 (+10) / 133 (+17) / 65 / 55 / 95 (+30) / 137 (+25) [BST 570]
Moves: Head Smash, Double-Edge, Earthquake


Cookie Butter's Flying/Fairy Wigglytuff (originally Samtendo09's)
Ability
: Fur Coat | Aerilate | Technician
New Stats: 140 / 60 (-10) / 45 / 160 (+75) / 100 (+50) / 65 (+20) (BST 570)
Moves: Nasty Plot, Draining Kiss, Air Slash



PrincessGardevoir's Grass/Electric Dedenne (originally Yoshiblaze's)
New Stats:
87 / 57 (-60) / 87 (+10) / 121 (+40) / 87 / 131 (+10)
Abilities: Chlorophyll / Volt Absorb / Overgrow (HA)
Moves: Nasty Plot, Weather Ball, and Solarbeam




PrincessGardevoir's Water Wishiwashi (originally Stitch98's)
Rework Concept:
Wishiwashi retains its old School Forme stats, but when below 25% HP, the stats change.
New Stats: 45 / 110 / 45 / 110 / 45 / 150 (505 BST)
Abilities: Schooling
Moves: Aqua Jet, Belly Drum, Rock Slide




PrincessGardevoir's Steel/Poison Garbodor (originally Origin0's)
New Stats:
90 (-10) / 130 / 107 / 40 / 107 / 96 (+10) (570 BST)
Abilities: Levitate, Skill Link, Defiant (HA)
Moves: Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Bullet Seed




G-Luke's Flying/Fighting Farfetch'd (originally Speny's)
Modified BST:
103(+51)/130(+40)/85(+30)/55/62/120(+60) [BST 555]
Abilities: Sniper / Aerilate / Defiant
Moves: Focus Energy, High Jump Kick, Cross Chop



Solarblade's Electric/Fairy Rotom-Fan
BST:
50 / 65 / 127 / 115 / 127 / 86
Abilities: Levitate
Moves: Moonblast, Parting Shot, Recover
Removed Moves: Air Slash


Also PMGS sign-ups will be up very soon, so keep an eye out in the subforum!
 
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Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
Updated the Excel spreadsheet.

Just a heads-up; thanks to Cookie Butter's buff for Wigglytuff that had won by voting...

Wigglytuff now have the highest Special Attack among the Optimized Pokémon (160 SpA), beating out Porygon-Z and Liligant who previously had the tied highest among the peers (145 SpA). Wigglytuff may be balanced by weak STABs without Aerliate, lacked recovery and Ground coverage without Technician (via Ground Hidden Power and Draining Kiss), and if running either Ability, will get terrible Defense without Fur Coat (which in turn makes it bulkier in Physical side than on Special side).

That said, I should not say that it remains underpowered unless proven otherwise; who would want to get hit by a Nasty Plot boosted Focus Blast/Fire Blast? This makes coverage a lot scarier this way, thus making switch-in a lot more riskier.

Other Pokémon with highest stat in respective category are; Snorlax (160 HP), Rampados (165 Atk), Brozong (145 Def), Araquanid (Whopping 172 SpD, but I know that this one will get nerfed, so Goodra may be next with 152 SpD) and Electrode (170 Spe).
 
First, one thing outta the way:

FUCCCCCCCC FINALS


With that out of the way, now I can comment on what I missed.


Updated the Excel spreadsheet.

Just a heads-up; thanks to Cookie Butter's buff for Wigglytuff that had won by voting...

Wigglytuff now have the highest Special Attack among the Optimized Pokémon (160 SpA), beating out Porygon-Z and Liligant who previously had the tied highest among the peers (145 SpA). Wigglytuff may be balanced by weak STABs without Aerliate, lacked recovery and Ground coverage without Technician (via Ground Hidden Power and Draining Kiss), and if running either Ability, will get terrible Defense without Fur Coat (which in turn makes it bulkier in Physical side than on Special side).

That said, I should not say that it remains underpowered unless proven otherwise; who would want to get hit by a Nasty Plot boosted Focus Blast/Fire Blast? This makes coverage a lot scarier this way, thus making switch-in a lot more riskier.

Other Pokémon with highest stat in respective category are; Snorlax (160 HP), Rampados (165 Atk), Brozong (145 Def), Araquanid (Whopping 172 SpD, but I know that this one will get nerfed, so Goodra may be next with 152 SpD) and Electrode (170 Spe).
Cookie Butter's Flying/Fairy Wigglytuff (originally Samtendo09's)
Ability
: Fur Coat | Aerilate | Technician
New Stats: 140 / 60 (-10) / 45 / 160 (+75) / 100 (+50) / 65 (+20) (BST 570)
Moves: Nasty Plot, Draining Kiss, Air Slash

Yeah, that Wigglytuff base Special Attack is quite scary, but with the fact that breathing on it physically will kill it, the remaining lack of reliable flying STAB without Aerilate, and your best option for fairy STAB is technician Draining Kiss or Dazzling Gleam - not to mention its bottom-barrel Speed. Then again, having a few more slow Pokemon is best. So many of the final products have speeds in the 100s that its hard to tell what's worth speedcreeping.

Also neat to see what the highest for specific stats are. Snorlax, Rampardos, Araquanid/Goodra, and Electrode are not surprises, but I'm happy to see my Bronzong topping the charts there.


Alright thanks for the votes, here are the winners!

Wigglytuff: Cookie Butter
Dedenne: PrincessGardevoir
Guzzlord: Samtendo09
Wishiwashi: PrincessGardevoir
Garbodor: PrincessGardevoir
Lycanroc Midday: G-Luke
Farfetch'd: G-Luke
Rotom-Fan: Solarblade

For easy reference:


Samtendo09's Ghost/Dragon Guzzlord (originally Yung Drump's)
Abilities:
Beast Boost / Glutonny | Unaware
Modified Stats: 113 (-110) / 71 (-30) / 67 (+14) / 139 (+42) / 67 (+14) / 113 (+70) (570)
Moves: Shadow Ball, Nasty Plot, Slack Off



G-Luke's The Reptile's Rock/Normal Lycanroc-Midday (originally The Reptile's)
Abilities:
Scrappy / Sand Rush / Rock Head (HA)
Modified Stats: 85 (+10) / 133 (+17) / 65 / 55 / 95 (+30) / 137 (+25) [BST 570]
Moves: Head Smash, Double-Edge, Earthquake


Cookie Butter's Flying/Fairy Wigglytuff (originally Samtendo09's)
Ability
: Fur Coat | Aerilate | Technician
New Stats: 140 / 60 (-10) / 45 / 160 (+75) / 100 (+50) / 65 (+20) (BST 570)
Moves: Nasty Plot, Draining Kiss, Air Slash



PrincessGardevoir's Grass/Electric Dedenne (originally Yoshiblaze's)
New Stats:
87 / 57 (-60) / 87 (+10) / 121 (+40) / 87 / 131 (+10)
Abilities: Chlorophyll / Volt Absorb / Overgrow (HA)
Moves: Nasty Plot, Weather Ball, and Solarbeam




PrincessGardevoir's Water Wishiwashi (originally Stitch98's)
Rework Concept:
Wishiwashi retains its old School Forme stats, but when below 25% HP, the stats change.
New Stats: 45 / 110 / 45 / 110 / 45 / 150 (505 BST)
Abilities: Schooling
Moves: Aqua Jet, Belly Drum, Rock Slide




PrincessGardevoir's Steel/Poison Garbodor (originally Origin0's)
New Stats:
90 (-10) / 130 / 107 / 40 / 107 / 96 (+10) (570 BST)
Abilities: Levitate, Skill Link, Defiant (HA)
Moves: Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Bullet Seed




G-Luke's Flying/Fighting Farfetch'd (originally Speny's)
Modified BST:
103(+51)/130(+40)/85(+30)/55/62/120(+60) [BST 555]
Abilities: Sniper / Aerilate / Defiant
Moves: Focus Energy, High Jump Kick, Cross Chop



Solarblade's Electric/Fairy Rotom-Fan
BST:
50 / 65 / 127 / 115 / 127 / 86
Abilities: Levitate
Moves: Moonblast, Parting Shot, Recover
Removed Moves: Air Slash


Also PMGS sign-ups will be up very soon, so keep an eye out in the subforum!
Gratz to everyone who won here, personal favorites being (the obvious) all of my submissions, Luke's Farfetch'd which puts it much more on par with Hawlucha, and Solarblade's Rotom because it makes Rotom a bit more versatile would have liked to see roost but w.e

And yay PMGS tournament thing, Iunno if I'll be competing or whatnot but I'll definitely take a look if I can find time for every match for Type Optimization. Any way to improve this or catch bugs is a good way. Or catch what's absolutely overpowered when people actually good at mons play!
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
Yeah, that Wigglytuff base Special Attack is quite scary, but with the fact that breathing on it physically will kill it, the remaining lack of reliable flying STAB without Aerilate, and your best option for fairy STAB is technician Draining Kiss or Dazzling Gleam - not to mention its bottom-barrel Speed. Then again, having a few more slow Pokemon is best. So many of the final products have speeds in the 100s that its hard to tell what's worth speedcreeping.

Also neat to see what the highest for specific stats are. Snorlax, Rampardos, Araquanid/Goodra, and Electrode are not surprises, but I'm happy to see my Bronzong topping the charts there.
Thing is, Wigglytuff's Special Attack still benefit its coverage moves (most likely Fire Blast or Focus Blast when not running Technician + Hidden Power Ground) which makes switch-in more risky, and there's a reason why Cookie Butter did give it Nasty Plot. A Wigglytuff with a Nasty Plot boost will also be capable of 2HKO almost anything not resisting any of its moves.
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Wigglytuff Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 230-270 (75.9 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

And yes, BoltBeam is also possible if you are willing to not use the weak Air Slash, which covers almost anything. Wigglytuff can also run wall while still decently hit back with Wish + Protect.

I also noted that there are other potential threats that I highly recommend to watch upon.
  • Cofagrigus: Impressive bulk, Mummy to annoy physical sweepers, have Recover for longer durability.
  • Cresselia: Might get even more annoying with Serene Grace and Fairy-type. Lava Plume 30% burn x 2 = 60% burn which also hurt Steel-types.
  • Emboar: Super fast after a set up of Shift Gear, difficult to predict its Ability without running risk of losing a Pokémon.
  • Goodra: Better bulk, arguably better typing, better Special Attack, have Recover and can play Cleric with Healing Wish.
  • Lilligant: Horrid HP and Defense stat, but if you let it using Quiver Dance too many times...
  • Meganium: Practically a bulkier Serperior, with quite better Special Attack to benefit Contrary and threaten almost anything once its maximized its Special Attack. It can also play other roles so that it is no one-trick dinosaur.
  • Girafarig: Simple Ability + Stored Power. That is all I can say.
  • Farfetch'd: Critical oriented with high Attack and Speed, making it quite an overkill when you think about it.
EDIT: Type Optimization Opens is up! Sign-Up is closed, but those who missed it can watch the replays.
 
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Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
I know that double posting can be bothersome to some but I will show the botched typing combination by weak Pokémon or those overshadowed with those with better typing combination. This might help out for future slates (if the next slate will be the Nerf Slate).
+
: Yes, Mega Pinsir is OU worthy, but this type combination is locked behind a Mega Evolution when it comes to OU. A normal Pokémon with this typing might be difficult to balance, but having Magic Guard to counter Stealth Rock might work. An Aerilate Pokémon with this typing but instead Special oriented can also works.
+
: Mega Beedrill is UU which is closest to OU, but that is not good enough. A more defensive Bug/Poison Pokémon might work better, but making it more offensive (threatening both Fairy and Dark) similarly to Mega Beedrill can also work.
+
: It was used by Nincada, but alas it evolved into either Bug/Flying and Bug/Ghost, the latter being interesting but locked behind Shedinja, which is a one-hit wonder and difficult to balance because of Wonder Guard. It have potential of great offensive presence.
+
: With Armaldo out of picture and Shuckle yet to be buffed, this typing might work well as either offensive or defensive.
+
: Pheromosa is banned from OU, and Buzzwole and Mega Heracross aren't viable enough to be fully OU. It have great offensive presence but crippling weak to Flying. We had to make sure we will not make the next Pokémon with this typing too powerful or dangerous like what happened to Pheromosa.
+
: Okay, quite unorthodox and double weakness of Fighting, but it is also immune to both Psychic and Ghost, which in turn have a potential STAB for both Knock Off and Return/Extreme Speed.
+
: Those that have this type is either below OU (Honchkrow), banned from OU (Yveltal) or not this type in here anymore (Mandibuzz). It have physical threat potential, being able to threaten both Psychic and Fighting.
+
: Have a potential to threaten Steel-type while also able to fight back against most Psychic-type.
+
: Vanilla Wigglytuff is weak even in PU; now it is a deadly threat with Fairy/Flying and even better Abilities, insane Sp.A stat and three useful moves when used right. Mega Audino is an NU Mega so don't count on this one. With this one out of picture, Fairy + Normal still have the potential of what Wigglytuff could if it wasn't for awful BST: A Pokémon with a very large moveset like a Normal-type and the efficiency of the Fairy-type.
+
: Have great potential, but Ribombee isn't strong enough to pull its weight. Making it better or find a more suiting Pokémon would be nice.
+
: Blaziken (both normal and Mega) is banned from OU, and Infernape cannot caught up in OU well. Emboar is now Fire/Rock so don't mind him. This have great offensive potential, but we had to make sure that it will fit in OU without getting too ridiculous. Maybe nerfing the base Blaziken by replacing Speed Boost by something else and some few other adjustment will do it?
+
: A good Fighting typing that have no worries of both Psychic and Fairy does to taking neutral to them, but Cobalion remains in OU while Mega Lucario is both Mega-locked and banned from OU.
+
: Marshadow had been proven too threatening in OU, but I think a more Special oriented or an oddly more bulky one might work well without going overboard.
+
: This one would work better as a Special sweeper unless if you can prove me otherwise. Ghost/Grass is not really that good of a defensive typing does to five weaknesses.
+
: Now with Torterra is out of picture, I'd like to think that this one works better for a fast sweeper does to only two resistance and one immunity, compared to three weaknesses and a double weakness to Ice.
+
: Have potential of either physical or special sweeper, and a nice immunity to three types. None of the actual Ground/Ghost can pull their weight well in OU.
+
: Works better as a sweeper, since Ice is a bad defensive typing thus weight down Water's resistances.
+
: Jynx is now Ice/Ghost (while Froslass is Ice/Poison in here beforehand), and it have powerful Special sweeper potential.
+
: Horrid double weakness to Fighting, but being able to be on either Sand team or Hail team would help a lot and make it unpredictable.
+
: Could work in OU but Aegislash was proven too much and sadly, it got banned. A more reasonable Steel/Ghost will be nice for OU.
+
: None of the Water/Rock Pokémon are viable to OU. A crippling 4x weakness to Grass discourage a defensive Pokémon unless if you dare to give it Sap Sipper, and even so I would personally find it better suited to offensive.

Anyone who don't agree with me or that found other Type Combinations that exist but is butched can reply to me.
 
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+
: It was used by Nincada, but alas it evolved into either Bug/Flying and Bug/Ghost, the latter being interesting but locked behind Shedinja, which is a one-hit wonder and difficult to balance because of Wonder Guard. It have potential of great offensive presence.
Did you just forget the best mon in the game Wormadam-S?
 
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