Resource Ultra Sun & Moon OU Analysis Discussion

Leo

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So it is quite conceivable that they will have no analysis for Gen 7? I thought at the base that one necessarily added an analysis in the tier where the mon is playable (as depreciative as it is). Looking for the ORAS, Salamence was already unusable in OU and effectively it does not actually have an analysis for this tier
Analyses are reserved for ranked Pokemon and ranked Pokemon only, this is not up for discussion. Writing analyses just to tell people "yea dont actually use this lol" is a waste of time and effort
 
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/manaphy

In team options, it mentions Smeargle on the Sticky Web part, which should be removed because it is unranked, and should probably be replaced with Araquanid

Edit: Also in Gyarados's analysis, it mentions Salamence in the Overview, which should be removed because it is unranked
 
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Mellow

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"Stomping Tantrum is an option to hit an opposing Heatran switching into Sludge Bomb, which would boost its Base Power to 150, enough to OHKO offensive variants most of the time. Assault Vest can be used as an alternative item on Amoonguss as it allows Amoonguss to check Ash-Greninja and Tapu Koko more effectively at the cost of access to Spore."

This should be omitted from the Other Options section on Amoonguss' analysis as Assault Vest with Stomping Tantrum is now listed as a set.
 
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"Stomping Tantrum is an option to hit an opposing Heatran switching into Sludge Bomb, which would boost its Base Power to 150, enough to OHKO offensive variants most of the time. Assault Vest can be used as an alternative item on Amoonguss as it allows Amoonguss to check Ash-Greninja and Tapu Koko more effectively at the cost of access to Spore."

This should be omitted from the Other Options section on Amoonguss' analysis as Assault Vest with Stomping Tantrum is now listed as a set.
Submitted
 

Mellow

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"Special Defense EVs make it so Avalugg isn't 2HKOed from uninvested Kyurem-B's Hidden Power Fire, which is often used on its Subzero Slammer or Gigavolt Havoc set."
No it isn't??? This was written recently too so idk what happened here but if the SpDef doesn't do anything else then change this.
 

lyd

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"Special Defense EVs make it so Avalugg isn't 2HKOed from uninvested Kyurem-B's Hidden Power Fire, which is often used on its Subzero Slammer or Gigavolt Havoc set."
No it isn't??? This was written recently too so idk what happened here but if the SpDef doesn't do anything else then change this.
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Avalugg: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
:psyduck:
E: misunderstood at first, but Z Kyub does run HP Fire kinda often
 

Mellow

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4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Avalugg: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
:psyduck:
E: misunderstood at first, but Z Kyub does run HP Fire kinda often
no it doesn't though
 

Mellow

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it literally does though bc otherwise you get turbo fucked by scizor which is literally the only mon in this tier that can take iciums

electrium also needs hp fire SUPER badly because u absolutely need to hit ferrothorn

i have no idea where u got this idea that z kyub doesnt run hp fire
the analysis + i have never ever seen z run hp fire
 
the analysis + i have never ever seen z run hp fire
Freeze Shock turns into an incredibly powerful Subzero Slammer thanks to Icium Z, but it is really unreliable otherwise because a regular Freeze Shock takes an extra turn to charge. Subzero Slammer achieves feats such as OHKOing Chansey and Mew after Stealth Rock and doing around 80% to physically defensive Skarmory and Ferrothorn. Fusion Bolt gives Kyurem-B BoltBeam coverage and is also a very reliable option to hit many Pokemon neutrally. Gyarados, Skarmory, Celesteela, Toxapex and many others get throttled by Fusion Bolt. Ice Beam acts as a reliable Ice-type STAB move, since Subzero Slammer can only be used once. Earth Power allows Kyurem-B to heavily damage Magearna, Alolan Marowak, Heatran, Rotom-W, and Magnezone, which would wall it otherwise. Substitute eases prediction, shields Kyurem-B from Scald burns from the likes of Toxapex, and allows it to safely fire off Freeze Shocks even after Icium Z has been used. Roost can also be used in the last slot to ensure that Kyurem-B's health is maintained throughout a match and alleviate Kyurem-B's Stealth Rock weakness. Hidden Power Fire can be used in the last slot as well, allowing Kyurem-B to break through Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn.


That being said, Hidden Power Fire should be slashed on the main set
 
About OU Celesteela analysis.

Celesteela is one of the best Pokemon in the tier
The Overview sounds misleading to me from the start. Is this based on early SM metagame? Celesteela has fallen far from its title as the best blanket checking-wall. Kartana gaining Knock Off, increased usage of Heatran, Magnezone, and the worst, Zygarde are all detrimental to this Pokémon's viability. I will assume Celesteela's "well-rounded stats, and a large movepool" contributed to its versatility in early SM generation. However, there are more misinformed sentences even if we keep this in mind.

Celesteela also has the option of offensive sets that can snowball with Beast Boost, but those lack Speed and can be easily outsped by fast Choice Scarf users even after an Autotomize boost.
How does Celesteela snowball in the first place if its mediocre-at-best offensive stats force it to run Z-Crystal and Celesteela itself has to grab a KO? Any Celesteela lacking Leftovers will obviously give anyone a sense that Celesteela is running something else, especially if it turns out it lacks Leech Seed. The sentence itself admits that Celesteela lacks potential as a snowball sweeper, but why is this minor information even mentioned in the Overview? I believe Other Options is sufficient for this point. This has a decent chance to make readers believe that Celesteela can viably function as a snow ball sweeper, and this is definitely not true (accounting on mediocre power, moveslot syndrome when attempting to run offensive sets, and inability to hit the most common Pokemon like Landorus-T, Heatran, or Toxapex in one moveslot).

I would rather not CMS the Overview because I am not the most knowledgeable in OU and it would rather be better for a QC member of someone with similar level of knowledge to rewrite the Overview itself. I may be incorrect, and if so, please tell me why that's the case.
 
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Jordy

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About OU Celesteela analysis.


The Overview sounds misleading to me from the start. Is this based on early SM metagame? Celesteela has fallen far from its title as the best blanket checking-wall. Kartana gaining Knock Off, increased usage of Heatran, Magnezone, and the worst, Zygarde are all detrimental to this Pokémon's viability. I will assume Celesteela's "well-rounded stats, and a large movepool" contributed to its versatility in early SM generation. However, there are more misinformed sentences even if we keep this in mind.


How does Celesteela snowball in the first place if its mediocre-at-best offensive stats force it to run Z-Crystal and Celesteela itself has to grab a KO? Any Celesteela lacking Leftovers will obviously give anyone a sense that Celesteela is running something else, especially if it turns out it lacks Leech Seed. The sentence itself admits that Celesteela lacks potential as a snowball sweeper, but why is this minor information even mentioned in the Overview? I believe Other Options is sufficient for this point. This has a decent chance to make readers believe that Celesteela can viably function as a snow ball sweeper, and this is definitely not true (accounting on mediocre power, moveslot syndrome when attempting to run offensive sets, and inability to hit the most common Pokemon like Landorus-T, Heatran, or Toxapex in one moveslot).

I would rather not CMS the Overview because I am not the most knowledgeable in OU and it would rather be better for a QC member of someone with similar level of knowledge to rewrite the Overview itself. I may be incorrect, and if so, please tell me why that's the case.
This was back when njnp webs was super popular and celesteela cud steam roll teams with ease. Ill take a look over it.
 

Mellow

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This was back when njnp webs was super popular and celesteela cud steam roll teams with ease. Ill take a look over it.
don't remove it - while they're incredibly niche, it can run an offensive set sometimes (the fight z set is kinda cool), so it deserves at least a mention, although maybe move it to other options if it isn't there already.
 

Mellow

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heres a couple of things i noticed

"Tangrowth is an excellent stop to Celesteela, preventing it from recovering with Leech Seed." on SD Scizors analysis, lmao fix this why was this ever written, yes it dissuades cele from clicking leech and knocks it, but it isn't an "excellent stop"

"Z-Celebrate allows Victini to boost all its stats once per match to become a terrifying late-game sweeper that can be difficult to revenge kill. Stored Power is very strong after a boost, and with useful coverage options in Focus Blast, Victini has the ability to shred through common defensive cores as well as offensive teams. Its decent bulk and somewhat useful resistances give Victini plenty of chances to setup. Unfortunately, Victini's average attacking stats forces it to heavily rely on Z-Celebrate's boosts in order to pose as much of a threat. Furthermore, Victini has an extremely poor defensive typing, which offsets its otherwise decent bulk and gives it weaknesses to Stealth Rock and common priority such as Sucker Punch and Water Shuriken. While Victini has access to strong physical moves such as V-Create and Bolt Strike, it faces too much competition from other physical wallbreakers, and thus should only really be used with Z-Celebrate. " Victinis Overview needs to be rewritten as Z Celebrate is now considered the least viable set and the top 2 sets are Scarf and Banded, which are implied to be outclassed and unviable by the overview.
 

Leo

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heres a couple of things i noticed

"Tangrowth is an excellent stop to Celesteela, preventing it from recovering with Leech Seed." on SD Scizors analysis, lmao fix this why was this ever written, yes it dissuades cele from clicking leech and knocks it, but it isn't an "excellent stop"

"Z-Celebrate allows Victini to boost all its stats once per match to become a terrifying late-game sweeper that can be difficult to revenge kill. Stored Power is very strong after a boost, and with useful coverage options in Focus Blast, Victini has the ability to shred through common defensive cores as well as offensive teams. Its decent bulk and somewhat useful resistances give Victini plenty of chances to setup. Unfortunately, Victini's average attacking stats forces it to heavily rely on Z-Celebrate's boosts in order to pose as much of a threat. Furthermore, Victini has an extremely poor defensive typing, which offsets its otherwise decent bulk and gives it weaknesses to Stealth Rock and common priority such as Sucker Punch and Water Shuriken. While Victini has access to strong physical moves such as V-Create and Bolt Strike, it faces too much competition from other physical wallbreakers, and thus should only really be used with Z-Celebrate. " Victinis Overview needs to be rewritten as Z Celebrate is now considered the least viable set and the top 2 sets are Scarf and Banded, which are implied to be outclassed and unviable by the overview.
The Steela line is fine cause a knocked celesteela that cant leech for free is dead in the long run. Also Im doing vic tomorrow unless someone beats me to it
 

Mellow

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"An EV spread consisting of 248 HP / 64 Atk / 124 Def / 72 SpD with an Adamant nature may be used to 2HKO Zygarde after a Swords Dance boost, 72 EVs in Special Defense let it avoid a 2HKO from +1 Magearna's Thunderbolt." It doesn't need this much investment - +1 252 SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Scizor-Mega: 145-171 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.
 
How about a Scarf Tyranitar analysis? It found some success in OST on sorrys/eternams team that also got used by mael & I used Scarf Tyranitar a few times myself in the later rounds. Its a great glue pokemon on fatty balance teams if you cannot be bothered to find a better/2nd steel for lele and handles Mega-Latios better than band while being able to pivot into big threats like Mega-Pinsir and Mega-Charizard-Y and kill them. It can also pursuit other problematic pokemon like Hoopa-Unbound, Reuniclus (granted, Band is better at this but its still able to while doing all the aformentioned stuff) and anything that got chipped enough. Its also sufficient as a Scarf user on this type of team if you can handle Dragon/Quiver Dance and Rock Polish (Shift Gear, Autotomize) user defensively.

I'd be down to write the analysis myself if this is deemed necessary.
 

Jordy

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How about a Scarf Tyranitar analysis? It found some success in OST on sorrys/eternams team that also got used by mael & I used Scarf Tyranitar a few times myself in the later rounds. Its a great glue pokemon on fatty balance teams if you cannot be bothered to find a better/2nd steel for lele and handles Mega-Latios better than band while being able to pivot into big threats like Mega-Pinsir and Mega-Charizard-Y and kill them. It can also pursuit other problematic pokemon like Hoopa-Unbound, Reuniclus (granted, Band is better at this but its still able to while doing all the aformentioned stuff) and anything that got chipped enough. Its also sufficient as a Scarf user on this type of team if you can handle Dragon/Quiver Dance and Rock Polish (Shift Gear, Autotomize) user defensively.

I'd be down to write the analysis myself if this is deemed necessary.
Already suggestd this on discor. It was rejected cuz of how team specific it is.
 
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The OU Victini analysis' introduction is:
Z-Celebrate allows Victini to boost all its stats once per match to become a terrifying late-game sweeper that can be difficult to revenge kill. Stored Power is very strong after a boost, and with useful coverage options in Focus Blast, Victini has the ability to shred through common defensive cores as well as offensive teams. Its decent bulk and somewhat useful resistances give Victini plenty of chances to setup. Unfortunately, Victini's average attacking stats forces it to heavily rely on Z-Celebrate's boosts in order to pose as much of a threat. Furthermore, Victini has an extremely poor defensive typing, which offsets its otherwise decent bulk and gives it weaknesses to Stealth Rock and common priority such as Sucker Punch and Water Shuriken. While Victini has access to strong physical moves such as V-Create and Bolt Strike, it faces too much competition from other physical wallbreakers, and thus should only really be used with Z-Celebrate.
which basically seems to only talk about the Z-Celebrate set and condemns using anything else on Victini.

The analysis then proceeds to list a Scarf set and a Band set, and only then adds Z-Celebrate as its 3rd set in the analysis. If Z-Celebrate is the only good set on Victini, shouldn't the 2 other sets be removed, or at least be put after Z-Celebrate? If it isn't the case that Z-Celebrate is Victini's only viable set, then the introduction should probably be revamped.

EDIT: Choice Scarf is also listed under "Other Options", and checks and counters focuses only on the celebrate set as well. I'm guessing this was an analysis focusing only on Victini's celebrate set and the other two were just appended to the analysis afterwards for some reason?

EDIT2: Oops, just noticed this was pointed out above. Well there's also the checks and counters and other options that needs to be changed fwiw.
 
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Indigo Plateau

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Can SD SpDef Tapu Bulu get an analysis, and if so, can I write it? It’s been picking up quite a bit recently, has the defensive utility that AV provides & it can be of more offensive presence due to SD. It’s also quite flexible bc it can viably run Lefties / Z-Move / Sub if needed. I can include replays and/or elaborate if needed
 
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Felixx

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The OU Victini analysis' introduction is:


which basically seems to only talk about the Z-Celebrate set and condemns using anything else on Victini.

The analysis then proceeds to list a Scarf set and a Band set, and only then adds Z-Celebrate as its 3rd set in the analysis. If Z-Celebrate is the only good set on Victini, shouldn't the 2 other sets be removed, or at least be put after Z-Celebrate? If it isn't the case that Z-Celebrate is Victini's only viable set, then the introduction should probably be revamped.

EDIT: Choice Scarf is also listed under "Other Options", and checks and counters focuses only on the celebrate set as well. I'm guessing this was an analysis focusing only on Victini's celebrate set and the other two were just appended to the analysis afterwards for some reason?

EDIT2: Oops, just noticed this was pointed out above. Well there's also the checks and counters and other options that needs to be changed fwiw.
I've spotted some more mistakes from Victini's CB analysis,

"Glaciate is an unconventional option to allow Victini to 2HKO defensive Landorus-T and Zygarde without dropping its Speed, and Glaciate also drops the speed of Choice Scarf variants of Landorus-T so Victini can 2HKO them."

I'm pretty sure Lando and Zygarde should be switched around

Also CB should be the first set instead of Scarf since it is a B rank set, while Scarf is B-

Overall a lot of things need to be fixed with the analysis
 

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