Resource Ultra Sun & Moon OU Analysis Discussion

Just a small nitpick on Kartana’s Page,
Defensive Zapdos and Volcarona: With a bit of investment into bulk on Zapdos, it is capable of walling non-niche variants of Kartana while the same can be said for Volcarona naturally due to the typing it has.
This would imply that Grassium Z and Fightinium Z are niche sets on Kartana. Obviously, they are not, as they are the two most effective Z crystals on it.
+2 252 Atk Kartana All-Out Pummeling (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 347-409 (111.5 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 297-349 (77.5 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Maybe rephrase this to something like, “Zapdos and Volcarona can wall Non-Z Move Kartana die to their respective typings.”
 
I think that Mega Latias deserves to be put on as a Check on the checks and counters list on Heatran, because while it does hate Toxic, it can use Heatran for set up with substitute and has risen tremendously enough over the past few weeks to warrant a mention
 

S. Court

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Tapu Lele analysis - Other options

"Tapu Lele can use an Electric-type attack of choice to inflict more solid damage on Celesteela specifically—Psychic Terrain-boosted attacks will usually do more damage to Water- and Flying-types except Skarmory and the rare Empoleon."

Is it even worthy to mention it? I mean, it's not ranked anymore in viability ranking thread
 
Hey. I don't know if someone suggested what I'm about to say already ( new here ) but there are a couple of things bugging me. I'll say just one today since it's late where I'm at and since I'm tired. I also don't wanna write too much and overwhelm anyone reading this too.

So. On the Assault Vest Magearna set, you have this : " Iron Head may seem odd on a specially offensive Pokemon, but it allows Magearna to 1v1 Calm Mind Magearna as well as Clefable. " The thing is, one would run Iron Head with a Sassy nature right ? But with the given EVs on Magearna analysis with Iron Head and a Sassy nature, you don't even outspeed Clefable, which mean its Calm Mind set has a chance to beat you one on one. 36 Spe EVs with a Sassy Nature outspeed standard Clefable sets. On the sample teams thread, ABR did put them on its Magearna ( in the Mega Gallade Bulky Offense ). He also did put 20 Def EVs, but since I don't know their usefulness, I won't suggest it. Regardless, I think that specifying the utility of 36 Spe EVs if using a Sassy nature on the standard AV Mag set would be relevant.
 
Hey. I don't know if someone suggested what I'm about to say already ( new here ) but there are a couple of things bugging me. I'll say just one today since it's late where I'm at and since I'm tired. I also don't wanna write too much and overwhelm anyone reading this too.

So. On the Assault Vest Magearna set, you have this : " Iron Head may seem odd on a specially offensive Pokemon, but it allows Magearna to 1v1 Calm Mind Magearna as well as Clefable. " The thing is, one would run Iron Head with a Sassy nature right ? But with the given EVs on Magearna analysis with Iron Head and a Sassy nature, you don't even outspeed Clefable, which mean its Calm Mind set has a chance to beat you one on one. 36 Spe EVs with a Sassy Nature outspeed standard Clefable sets. On the sample teams thread, ABR did put them on its Magearna ( in the Mega Gallade Bulky Offense ). He also did put 20 Def EVs, but since I don't know their usefulness, I won't suggest it. Regardless, I think that specifying the utility of 36 Spe EVs if using a Sassy nature on the standard AV Mag set would be relevant.
Magearna doesn't necessarily need to outspeed it though? The point is that if Clefable gets Specially defensive boosts and you are dropped in SpAtk from Fluer you literally can't touch it and it can freely set up. Iron Head means you have STAB that hits Clefable despite drops/boosts, as Magearna should and does completely wall Clefable. No need to outspeed.

Also as said on the SQSA the speed under speeds Celesteela so you can absorb Leech Seed before you Volt Switch out.

+6 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 85-101 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 82.3% chance to 4HKO

0 Atk Magearna Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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Can't sleep... Oh, you're totally right. That's why you should always check stuffs even when you're certain about it. I really underestimated Assault Vest Magearna's bulk... But I just did another calc ; what if the Clefable has Flamethrower ? 2HKO ( +6 0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 216-256 (59.5 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ). I guess it's still not relevant though, since Flamethrower is unpopular on Clef nowadays.
I got another short one in mind, I did calc this time. This is minor, but about the Protean Scarf Greninja set, 80 SpA can fail to OHKO Kartana with Ice Beam ( 80 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 259-306 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO ). The guaranteed OHKO is achieved by putting 88 SpA EVs ( 88 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 261-307 (100.3 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO ). Also, did you know that putting 12 HP Evs on non Shuca Berry Tapu Koko allows it to always survive a + 2 High Jump Kick from Hawlucha after Stealth Rocks ? +2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock this is also a detail but once a pal lost to me because of that ^^'. Gonna search more, I have one in mind about Swords Dance Mega Scizor but someone already talked about it.
 

Martin

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I mean, you don’t exactly lose anything by creeping uninvested Clefable, especially when the investment to do so is so small, and if anything it’s probably better to on the off-chance it carries Flamethrower or, more likely, Knock Off. I see no reason to not implement the Gears speed as any losses are marginal at best (the % drop in spec bulk is miniscule after consideration of raw stat, investment and vest boost).
 
Was reading Gastrodon’s analysis and I think some things could be added.
For one, I feel that the overview should be more positive about Gastrodon. It says that Gastrodon is hard to justify over other Ground-types and Water-types. I wouldn’t use this wording considering that Gastrodon is really good right now. Maybe change it to, “Gastrodon faces competition from other Water and Ground-types.” Also, Tapu Fini should not be mentioned as a superior water type.
Also, Gastrodon’s ability to check Heatran should be mentioned in the overview.
 
hi on gren's analysis it says to use 80 spa but

80 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 259-306 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

doesn't make much of a difference but change it to 88 spa:

88 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 261-307 (100.3 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

Jordy

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on fini's page i think knock off should be in oo cause knock is a top 3 move and its nice to remove bulu's av, steela's lefties and magnezone's scarf. its at least better than scald
hi on gren's analysis it says to use 80 spa but

80 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 259-306 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

doesn't make much of a difference but change it to 88 spa:

88 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 261-307 (100.3 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Was reading Gastrodon’s analysis and I think some things could be added.
For one, I feel that the overview should be more positive about Gastrodon. It says that Gastrodon is hard to justify over other Ground-types and Water-types. I wouldn’t use this wording considering that Gastrodon is really good right now. Maybe change it to, “Gastrodon faces competition from other Water and Ground-types.” Also, Tapu Fini should not be mentioned as a superior water type.
Also, Gastrodon’s ability to check Heatran should be mentioned in the overview.
I mean, you don’t exactly lose anything by creeping uninvested Clefable, especially when the investment to do so is so small, and if anything it’s probably better to on the off-chance it carries Flamethrower or, more likely, Knock Off. I see no reason to not implement the Gears speed as any losses are marginal at best (the % drop in spec bulk is miniscule after consideration of raw stat, investment and vest boost).
Hey. I don't know if someone suggested what I'm about to say already ( new here ) but there are a couple of things bugging me. I'll say just one today since it's late where I'm at and since I'm tired. I also don't wanna write too much and overwhelm anyone reading this too.

So. On the Assault Vest Magearna set, you have this : " Iron Head may seem odd on a specially offensive Pokemon, but it allows Magearna to 1v1 Calm Mind Magearna as well as Clefable. " The thing is, one would run Iron Head with a Sassy nature right ? But with the given EVs on Magearna analysis with Iron Head and a Sassy nature, you don't even outspeed Clefable, which mean its Calm Mind set has a chance to beat you one on one. 36 Spe EVs with a Sassy Nature outspeed standard Clefable sets. On the sample teams thread, ABR did put them on its Magearna ( in the Mega Gallade Bulky Offense ). He also did put 20 Def EVs, but since I don't know their usefulness, I won't suggest it. Regardless, I think that specifying the utility of 36 Spe EVs if using a Sassy nature on the standard AV Mag set would be relevant.
Tapu Lele analysis - Other options

"Tapu Lele can use an Electric-type attack of choice to inflict more solid damage on Celesteela specifically—Psychic Terrain-boosted attacks will usually do more damage to Water- and Flying-types except Skarmory and the rare Empoleon."

Is it even worthy to mention it? I mean, it's not ranked anymore in viability ranking thread
Remove the 56 speed investment SD MegaZor has for AV Magnezone and put it into something useful. You dont even have to worry about Alolan-Marowak anymore.
on fini's page i think knock off should be in oo cause knock is a top 3 move and its nice to remove bulu's av, steela's lefties and magnezone's scarf. its at least better than scald
submitted all these to cms
 
Hey, here's a minor detail for the Mega Latios set that probably should be fixed

Instead of Recover, the set instead has Roost, which is worse for Mega Latios because giving up that Ground immunity can sometimes be disadvantageous against foes it would normally be capable of walling such as Landorus, whereas there is no downside to using Recover. It would also be much more consistent with Mega Latias who also utilizes Recover so it won't give up the Ground immunity
 

Leo

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Hey, here's a minor detail for the Mega Latios set that probably should be fixed

Instead of Recover, the set instead has Roost, which is worse for Mega Latios because giving up that Ground immunity can sometimes be disadvantageous against foes it would normally be capable of walling such as Landorus, whereas there is no downside to using Recover. It would also be much more consistent with Mega Latias who also utilizes Recover so it won't give up the Ground immunity
Roost doesn't remove the Ground immunity, it removes the flying typing which Latios doesn't have so it basically has no secondary effect, both Roost and Recover are identical.
 

lyd

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Hey, here's a minor detail for the Mega Latios set that probably should be fixed

Instead of Recover, the set instead has Roost, which is worse for Mega Latios because giving up that Ground immunity can sometimes be disadvantageous against foes it would normally be capable of walling such as Landorus, whereas there is no downside to using Recover. It would also be much more consistent with Mega Latias who also utilizes Recover so it won't give up the Ground immunity
Hmm, Roost doesn’t remove Ground immunities in general, it only removes the Flying-type by itself. So Mega Latios keeps levitating.

Sigh I always get sniped :facepalm:
 
Uh guys, why the hell does the kartana analysis says ferro uses HP fire? Ferro never uses it, however, the kart page says this in the checks and counters section:

"Hidden Power Fire: With Pokemon unlikely to run Hidden Power Fire such as Ferrothorn and Landorus-T seeing some use with it solely due to Kartana's presence in the tier, it should be kept in mind that any Hidden Power Fire is sure to knock out the specially frail Kartana, and this could limit its ability to set up or stay alive in some matchups. ".
 

Jordy

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Uh guys, why the hell does the kartana analysis says ferro uses HP fire? Ferro never uses it, however, the kart page says this in the checks and counters section:

"Hidden Power Fire: With Pokemon unlikely to run Hidden Power Fire such as Ferrothorn and Landorus-T seeing some use with it solely due to Kartana's presence in the tier, it should be kept in mind that any Hidden Power Fire is sure to knock out the specially frail Kartana, and this could limit its ability to set up or stay alive in some matchups. ".
Though i submitted this like 4 months ago, it apparently didn't go through, did it again.

For clarification, I added HP Fire on Ferrothorn, didnt remove it, sorry to confuse some people.
 
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I just noticed something: The M. Latios page says that earthquake 2HKOes AV Magearna, but it's less than a 1/5 chance.

4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 160-190 (44 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO

The page makes it seem like the 2HKO is certain, with it just saying that it can 2HKO AV Magearna. This is really misleading. Is it possible that someone can fix this and clarify or remove the sentance?
 
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Jordy

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I just noticed something: The M. Latios page says that earthquake 2HKOes AV Magearna, but it's less than a 1/5 chance.

4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 160-190 (44 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO

The page makes it seem like the 2HKO is certain, with it just saying that it can 2HKO AV Magearna. This is really misleading. Is it possible that someone can fix this and clarify or remove the sentance?
added 'after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage' to make it clear.
 
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Quick question: among the large number of BLs (which in some way belong to the big family of OU mons), some are a priori totally useless (not even rank C- in the VRs). The mons concerned are:
Sprite_7_s_794.png
Buzzwhole,
Sprite_6_x_534.png
Conkeldurr,
Sprite_6_x_660.png
Diggersby,
Sprite_6_x_282M.png
Gardevoir-Mega,
Sprite_6_x_474.png
Porygon-Z,
Sprite_6_x_398_m.png
Staraptor,
Sprite_7_s_796.png
Xurkitree and recently
Sprite_6_x_373.png
Salamence. Nevertheless will they have a OU strategic analysis in the near future? I guess the Deoxys-N analysis in Uber will be inspiring for a reason: we'll get the same message "OU by technicality but which are strongly discouraged to play".

Edit: my bad for Staraptor (the analysis was published 2-3 days ago).
 
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Quick question: among the large number of BLs (which in some way belong to the big family of OU mons), some are a priori totally useless (not even rank C- in the VRs). The mons concerned are: View attachment 117457Buzzwhole, View attachment 117458Conkeldurr, View attachment 117459Diggersby, View attachment 117460 Gardevoir-Mega, View attachment 117461Porygon-Z, View attachment 117462Staraptor, View attachment 117463Xurkitree and recently View attachment 117456Salamence. Nevertheless will they have a OU strategic analysis in the near future? I guess the Deoxys-N analysis in Uber will be inspiring for a reason: we'll get the same message "OU by technicality but which are strongly discouraged to play".
Staraptor is both ranked, and already has an OU Analysis
 

Jordy

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Quick question: among the large number of BLs (which in some way belong to the big family of OU mons), some are a priori totally useless (not even rank C- in the VRs). The mons concerned are: View attachment 117457Buzzwhole, View attachment 117458Conkeldurr, View attachment 117459Diggersby, View attachment 117460Gardevoir-Mega, View attachment 117461Porygon-Z, View attachment 117462Staraptor, View attachment 117463Xurkitree and recently View attachment 117456Salamence. Nevertheless will they have a OU strategic analysis in the near future? I guess the Deoxys-N analysis in Uber will be inspiring for a reason: we'll get the same message "OU by technicality but which are strongly discouraged to play".

Edith: my bad for Staraptor (the analysis was published 2-3 days ago).
No, this is something only Ubers does for as far as I know as most D rank Pokemon do have a niche, just not a good one.
 

Leo

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Quick question: among the large number of BLs (which in some way belong to the big family of OU mons), some are a priori totally useless (not even rank C- in the VRs). The mons concerned are: View attachment 117457Buzzwhole, View attachment 117458Conkeldurr, View attachment 117459Diggersby, View attachment 117460Gardevoir-Mega, View attachment 117461Porygon-Z, View attachment 117462Staraptor, View attachment 117463Xurkitree and recently View attachment 117456Salamence. Nevertheless will they have a OU strategic analysis in the near future? I guess the Deoxys-N analysis in Uber will be inspiring for a reason: we'll get the same message "OU by technicality but which are strongly discouraged to play".

Edith: my bad for Staraptor (the analysis was published 2-3 days ago).
No point in having people go through the trouble of writing analyses for mons that arent worth using
 
No point in having people go through the trouble of writing analyses for mons that arent worth using
So it's quite conceivable that they will have no analysis for Gen 7? I thought at the base that one necessarily added an analysis in the tier where the mon is playable (as depreciative as it is). Coming from watching the ORAS VRs, Salamence was already unusable in OU and effectively it does not actually have an analysis for this tier
 
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