Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon In-Game Tier List

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Thought its stats make it useless without Mega in this day and age, or at least not on the same level with Decidueye
Mawile has a fantastic typing, and Intimidate immensely helps in a game where most opponents use physical moves.

It won't hit very hard, but outlasting is not much of an issue.

Honestly I personally think all the Wormhole legendaries are about at two different rankings - D rank for the 580 legends and most of the UBs and C rank for the 680. They all tear through the game pretty much equally and are easy enough targets for the Master Ball. A few of the 680 legends are a little stronger than the others but honestly they're all going to smash the rest of the game.
I agree. They are all more of a lite version of Emerald Rayquaza - they are obtained at similar points in their games, and while Wormhole legendaries tend to run over the game once obtained, they are not as absurdly dominant as that Rayquaza. They are also not fixed encounters either, so something like Xerneas could take multiple attempts to obtain.
 
I really think that Wormhole legendaries should all be D-rank, on the basis of how tedious and annoying they are to obtain. Running into a specific one, in particular, can take upwards of 25 Ultra Warp Ride attempts, while you could train up an ordinary Pokemon to a decent level in the same amount of time.
 

Merritt

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I really think that Wormhole legendaries should all be D-rank, on the basis of how tedious and annoying they are to obtain. Running into a specific one, in particular, can take upwards of 25 Ultra Warp Ride attempts, while you could train up an ordinary Pokemon to a decent level in the same amount of time.
That's why I think they should be lumped together - because they do beat the game at relatively similar effectiveness it doesn't matter too much which one you get, which makes obtaining them significantly less difficult.
 
That's why I think they should be lumped together - because they do beat the game at relatively similar effectiveness it doesn't matter too much which one you get, which makes obtaining them significantly less difficult.
Hmm, good point. I'm not sure what the rule is regarding this, but would it make sense to have separate rankings for Wormhole legendaries (any) and Wormhole legendaries (specific)?
 
I really think that Wormhole legendaries should all be D-rank, on the basis of how tedious and annoying they are to obtain. Running into a specific one, in particular, can take upwards of 25 Ultra Warp Ride attempts, while you could train up an ordinary Pokemon to a decent level in the same amount of time.
I'd say D by default, then C if they're amazing against the E4 and E if they are terrible against them
 

Ryota Mitarai

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I don't think we should tier all wormhole legends under the same rank, mostly cause there are Legends that clearly excel at their capabilities like Xerneas for example, while there are some that are relatively bad. Prime example I can think of are the Regis, all of them are pretty underwhelming.
 

Merritt

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I don't think we should tier all wormhole legends under the same rank, mostly cause there are Legends that clearly excel at their capabilities like Xerneas for example, while there are some that are relatively bad. Prime example I can think of are the Regis, all of them are pretty underwhelming.
Guess I can repeat what I suggested last page.

I personally think all the Wormhole legendaries are about at two different rankings - D rank for the 580 legends and most of the UBs and C rank for the 680.

While some of the 680s are stronger (Xerneas, Kyogre), every single one of them has little to no difficulty with the remaining game, so placing them in the same rank is appropriate. It's similar for the 580s - they pretty much universally don't tear through the game like the 680s do but there's not enough variation on how well they perform to really split them up.

The exception to this is Regigigas, who should be ranked in bottom tier.
 
I beat US not too long ago, here's what I had used through the game:

Popplio, Bounsweet, Zubat, Mudbray - Agree with A rank

Litwick - A-B
I can only speak for late-game since I raised one late-game because I needed a special fire attacker. Hits very, very hard once you're at that level. Gains memento at level 33, earlier than grimer which is a life-saver at totem fights that would otherwise OHKO your party.

Morelull - D
This will be your favorite pokemon if you want to screw around with recovery and drain skills. Strength sap boosted by a big root will fully recover your HP when up against physical attackers. However, for a pokemon that plays passively and defensively, morelull lacks bulk. Tsareena is a better choice for grass-type coverage.

Umbreon - D
High defenses and recovery skills makes umbreon really reliable. The downside is, it can't do damage with its terrible movepool. Vaporeon tank hits like Umbreon does and has better support moves.

Meowth - E
Unless you're saving up for Kommo-o outfit, raising one for Payday spam isn't even worth it as I was never at any point in the game ever short on money. Is good early-game with early access to fake out and bite to prevent the opponent from moving. Persian is frail at high levels when mons gets stronger moves.

Paras - E
Raised one for catching pokemon with access to false swipe and spore. Cannot compete with at-level mons.

Pyukumuku - E
Worth raising just for cheesing through Ultra Necrozma. Otherwise, cannot learn any attacking moves. Use only for lols
 

Its_A_Random

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Pyukumuku for C/D. D is probably a better fit overall but when used to its "fullest potential", it can be worth a C.

At first glance you might think this is just some hot meme because I utilised it in a self-imposed challenge run that limited options to the point that it was worth using. However, I believe it truly has some efficient applications in Ultra (especially if caught in multiples, we'll get to that) that make it worth using in an efficient run. The most important thing to note with Pyukumuku is that you can't just use it like any old Pokémon and expect it to work. The inability to do direct damage outside of Z-Moves means it's not going to be incredibly useful against most trainers and as a result is reliant on Exp. Share to level well. However, the beauty of Pyukumuku is that it doesn't need many levels to function (actually, levelling too much for a point in the game can be a bad thing so level management is important to using Pyukumuku efficiently).

Its main function for most of the game comes in two forms: either it gets one shot and Innards Out deals some damage (This is NOT a bad thing), or it barely survives a physical attack and reflects the damage back with Counter. The former can do really well when paired with multiple Pyukumuku to either punch holes in a trainer's team or to cheese through a totem really quickly and only have to worry about the add (Three freshly caught Pyukumuku from Route 7 can cheese Totem Togedemaru [Need 150 HP aggregate to account for Sitrus Berry], punch a big hole in Guzma 1 [leave him with sub half health Golisopod], then boxed and brought for the Ghost Trial and cheese Totem Mimikyu, all without wasting items). The latter can be used to one shot certain enemies (For example, a mid-late 30's Pyukumuku for example can one round Totem Kommo-o by surviving a Thunder Punch and one shotting with Counter) and have health to spare for Innards Out. Even outside of Innards Out and Counter, Pyukumuku has some good supports including Helping Hand which makes the Aether Double fights with Hau/Gladion a lot more stable (especially Faba 2 as they tend to target Hau until he sends in Noivern, don't know if this is consistent between fights), Taunt can improve consistency in certain fights like Ultra Recon Squad member's Poipole, Safeguard can... block Thunder Wave trolls I guess. There are other moves that can help out (Memento could help a setup sweep in the endgame I guess?) but the moveset Pyukumuku gets when caught at Lv17-19 of Helping Hand/Taunt/Safeguard/Counter is good enough to last the whole game.

The biggest thing that counts against is one thing I already bring up: the fact that it is at its most efficient when used in multiples. This is because it's not indicative of how Pyukumuku performs by itself and even then it can still be used as somewhat efficient support, whether it be that you use it to punch a large hole in a Totem for something else to clean up or to manipulate the add called (e.g. Totem Ribombee's add depends on HP and if you drop it below half, it calls Blissey, which can be exploited by say, Roseli Berry Hawlucha to clean up the fight by destroying Blissey and then using Unburden Acrobatics to finish the totem*) or you can use items to resurrect and do it again to simulate multiple Pyukumuku (which isn't super efficient but good enough for Ultra Nec I guess). Whether or not you consider it as a bad thing really depends on if you want to go down the rabbit hole of whether a Pokémon should be considered by itself or are duplicates acceptable, but that's probably something worth discussing in that general tier list policy thread.

*: Not a great example after thinking about it a little more because of stuff like Helping Hand shenanigans from Blissey and Draining Kiss trolls, but you get the idea

It's not going to beat the whole game by itself, it's not going to route sweep things, and of course, it's something you are only going to use in certain fights. As team support however, Pyukumuku can be a deceptively efficient Pokémon when used correctly (and more efficient when used in multiples), and in Ultra SM, team support is a really valuable commodity (unlike most other Pokémon Games). Not to mention the number of fights you can beat/cheese really efficiently with it. For this, I feel C or D is an appropriate placement for Pyukumuku (if you want to just consider by itself, it's probably a lower end D at best. Good enough to stay out of E though).

Also shoutouts to the above post for giving me the inspiration to use Pyukumuku in my challenge run and allowing me to assess it much deeper.

EDIT: sb879 below also has a good point for other functions for solo Pyukumuku. Point is, Pyukumuku is no joke.

---

Also on another note I kinda have to agree with D for Absol though if someone makes a really good case for C, I don't mind. Super Luck + Swords Dance + Slashes can turn it into a devestating sweeper that can really help for certain sections of the game, but the poor bulk and speed hurts, especially when pretty much every major battle features EV'd opponents. Not going to go too much into detail here.
 
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Some mons I've used in USUM that haven't been ranked yet:

Houndoom - C/D

This thing's level up moves are pretty ass. Of course, Z-Moves exist and 90 base attack isn't terrible, but the fact is you don't get to make use of Houndoom's higher special attack for a long time. You do fortunately get access to Flamethrower at Vast Poni Canyon (unless you want to wait until LEVEL 50 to get it) and Sludge Bomb to get insurance against Fairy-types. It ironically has trouble breaking down Guzma's team because all of his bugs weak to Fire have good physical Defense. Pretty alright against Acerola and Molayne, shit against Olivia like any Fire-type. I might be underestimating this thing, but still.

Psyduck/Golduck - C

This thing actually has a pretty good level-up movepool for Water-types in this game standards. Aqua Tail is high enough base power to offset Golduck's Attack, and sure it isn't too strong, but it can make ends meet.

Baltoy/Claydol - C

Again it runs into the problem of not being too strong, and its typing is quite exploitable, but its bulk is pretty okay, its movepool is surprisingly decent (you get Earth Power at level 40 and it evolves at 36). Good against the hordes of Poison-types used by Team Skull even when you take into account Dark-type moves. (You only have to worry about Gastly/Haunter; Golbat and Ekans Bite barely 3HKO/4HKO respectively and you outspeed the latter) Hoenn fossils ironically ruin its chances of dominating Olivia.

Makuhita/Hariyama - A

Evolves early, good movepool, good stats for an early game mon. Resisting Dark and Bug is great (cucked by Masquerain in Guzma fights though), and it has enough bulk to take on even Acerola.

Leafeon - Agree with B

Can evolve for the Lush Jungle trial but I wouldn't recommend it too too much. Level 29 Swords Dance is good, and it finally gets a decently strong Grass STAB in Seed Bomb via Ula Ula tutors, and makes the wait for Leaf Blade that much more bearable. One of the better Grass-types in the game.

Crabominable - E

Great as Crabrawler, too slow and frail when as Crabominable. Ice Punch + Iron Fist is strong enough and a safer alternative to Ice Hammer misses, but in terms of matchups it doesn't even have a good one against Nanu. Might consider D too.

Torkoal - C

Bulk + Drought means it can take on Guzma well sans Vikavolt, but it's a bit slow and its power a bit underwhelming.

I might post thoughts on Octillery and Tentacruel as well but I still need time to think about what rank they should be.
 
Hey everyone, new to the forums but I’ve been following the tier lists on this forum for about 6 months now, so I’d say I’m able to provide to the conversation at least a bit.

Anyway, that aside, while the topic is months old, I personally feel that the Wormhole legendaries are no higher than E tier. While the qualifications of each tier aren’t clarified in the OP, they would be C tier if we aren’t factoring availability, maybe even B given how most of them simply dominate the endgame. However, the sheer inconvenience and hurdles you have to go through to get them simply does not make them worthy of anything but E at the most. It’s a massive time investment that simply is not efficient.

To get a *specific* Ultra Wormhole legendary, you must:

1. Do adequately on the mini-game. A player must also be skilled enough to consistently find the right wormholes, but it isn’t a particularly hard mini-game, so this doesn’t matter too much.

2. You must enter into a Wormhole with a high enough number of rings and the correct color of the legendary in question. Not too difficult, but somewhat unreliable.

2. Pray that the legendary you find is the one you’re searching for. The odds are not in your favor.

This is in addition to the fact that there just isn’t much of the game left. You have Victory Road, the Elite Four, and then Hau. While these are all undeniably important, their dominance over these fights is simply not enough to warrant the time investment.

Now, finding just any old legendary isn’t particularly difficult if you’re not specifically hunting one down, and if all grouped together would warrant D tier; but when taken separately, it becomes very impractical to hunt down a single given legendary. Furthermore, lumping them all into one category doesn’t seem particularly wise given the drastic differences between legendaries and their performances; compare Groudon and Regice, for instance. In my opinion, this shouldn’t be based on BST as Meritt suggested; typing and movepool can play a major role in how well a legendary actually performs. Again returning to Regice, Regice simply cannot fight Hala or Olivia, and will struggle with parts of Hala’s team, while Terrakion sweeps past nearly everything.

While I have not personally used any of these legendaries in a run, I don’t doubt their strength, I simply doubt the timeliness of actually obtaining these legendaries. It’s just not efficient, and thus I (preliminarily) nominate every legendary obtainable from Wormholes for E tier.
 
Hey everyone, new to the forums but I’ve been following the tier lists on this forum for about 6 months now, so I’d say I’m able to provide to the conversation at least a bit.

Anyway, that aside, while the topic is months old, I personally feel that the Wormhole legendaries are no higher than E tier. While the qualifications of each tier aren’t clarified in the OP, they would be C tier if we aren’t factoring availability, maybe even B given how most of them simply dominate the endgame. However, the sheer inconvenience and hurdles you have to go through to get them simply does not make them worthy of anything but E at the most. It’s a massive time investment that simply is not efficient.

To get a *specific* Ultra Wormhole legendary, you must:

1. Do adequately on the mini-game. A player must also be skilled enough to consistently find the right wormholes, but it isn’t a particularly hard mini-game, so this doesn’t matter too much.

2. You must enter into a Wormhole with a high enough number of rings and the correct color of the legendary in question. Not too difficult, but somewhat unreliable.

2. Pray that the legendary you find is the one you’re searching for. The odds are not in your favor.

This is in addition to the fact that there just isn’t much of the game left. You have Victory Road, the Elite Four, and then Hau. While these are all undeniably important, their dominance over these fights is simply not enough to warrant the time investment.

Now, finding just any old legendary isn’t particularly difficult if you’re not specifically hunting one down, and if all grouped together would warrant D tier; but when taken separately, it becomes very impractical to hunt down a single given legendary. Furthermore, lumping them all into one category doesn’t seem particularly wise given the drastic differences between legendaries and their performances; compare Groudon and Regice, for instance. In my opinion, this shouldn’t be based on BST as Meritt suggested; typing and movepool can play a major role in how well a legendary actually performs. Again returning to Regice, Regice simply cannot fight Hala or Olivia, and will struggle with parts of Hala’s team, while Terrakion sweeps past nearly everything.

While I have not personally used any of these legendaries in a run, I don’t doubt their strength, I simply doubt the timeliness of actually obtaining these legendaries. It’s just not efficient, and thus I (preliminarily) nominate every legendary obtainable from Wormholes for E tier.
Well Regice won't be fighting Hala as Hala isn't part of the Elite Four in these games.

That said, it fares about as poorly, if not worse, against Moylane's Steel types as they generally resist its STAB Ice moves in addition to their STAB Steel moves being super effective.

I do agree with you that the legendary Pokemon from the Ultra Warp Ride are generally not worth it. Still, you could obtain them in time for Ultra Necrozma and Mina's trial, giving them slightly more battles to potentially participate in.

I'd also say it's more "luck" than "skill" when it comes to finding the right wormhole. You might find a level 4 wormhole of the desired color within 2500-3000 ly, you might end up running out of energy and get pulled into a level 1 wormhole after over 5000 ly of searching.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Smogon Media Contributor
Hey everyone, new to the forums but I’ve been following the tier lists on this forum for about 6 months now, so I’d say I’m able to provide to the conversation at least a bit.

Anyway, that aside, while the topic is months old, I personally feel that the Wormhole legendaries are no higher than E tier. While the qualifications of each tier aren’t clarified in the OP, they would be C tier if we aren’t factoring availability, maybe even B given how most of them simply dominate the endgame. However, the sheer inconvenience and hurdles you have to go through to get them simply does not make them worthy of anything but E at the most. It’s a massive time investment that simply is not efficient.

To get a *specific* Ultra Wormhole legendary, you must:

1. Do adequately on the mini-game. A player must also be skilled enough to consistently find the right wormholes, but it isn’t a particularly hard mini-game, so this doesn’t matter too much.

2. You must enter into a Wormhole with a high enough number of rings and the correct color of the legendary in question. Not too difficult, but somewhat unreliable.

2. Pray that the legendary you find is the one you’re searching for. The odds are not in your favor.

This is in addition to the fact that there just isn’t much of the game left. You have Victory Road, the Elite Four, and then Hau. While these are all undeniably important, their dominance over these fights is simply not enough to warrant the time investment.

Now, finding just any old legendary isn’t particularly difficult if you’re not specifically hunting one down, and if all grouped together would warrant D tier; but when taken separately, it becomes very impractical to hunt down a single given legendary. Furthermore, lumping them all into one category doesn’t seem particularly wise given the drastic differences between legendaries and their performances; compare Groudon and Regice, for instance. In my opinion, this shouldn’t be based on BST as Meritt suggested; typing and movepool can play a major role in how well a legendary actually performs. Again returning to Regice, Regice simply cannot fight Hala or Olivia, and will struggle with parts of Hala’s team, while Terrakion sweeps past nearly everything.

While I have not personally used any of these legendaries in a run, I don’t doubt their strength, I simply doubt the timeliness of actually obtaining these legendaries. It’s just not efficient, and thus I (preliminarily) nominate every legendary obtainable from Wormholes for E tier.

The thing about wormhole legendaries is that, yes they are obtianed late, that most of them smash the rest of the game (like if you get something like Dialga/Xerneas/Heatran/Groudon (which you can buy a Red Orb from Hau'oli for). Which you get isn't important, because they are still gonna smash what's left of the game (except the Regis, where Regigigas should definitely be ranked E just because lol Regigigas).
 
Well Regice won't be fighting Hala as Hala isn't part of the Elite Four in these games.

That said, it fares about as poorly, if not worse, against Moylane's Steel types as they generally resist its STAB Ice moves in addition to their STAB Steel moves being super effective.
Ah, my mistake, I apologize for that. Still, thanks to Molayne my point still stands - a poor match-up against 2 of the Elite Four is... pretty bad.

The thing about wormhole legendaries is that, yes they are obtianed late, that most of them smash the rest of the game (like if you get something like Dialga/Xerneas/Heatran/Groudon (which you can buy a Red Orb from Hau'oli for). Which you get isn't important, because they are still gonna smash what's left of the game (except the Regis, where Regigigas should definitely be ranked E just because lol Regigigas).
Yes, I acknowledged this in my post. The problem isn’t that, they are absolutely absurdly powerful, it’s just that I’m opposed to them rising any higher than E due to how impractical it is to obtain a specific one. If grouped together, I can see justification for D, but even then some of the legendaries are decidely mediocre - such as Regice, and especially Regigigas.
 

Merritt

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Ah, my mistake, I apologize for that. Still, thanks to Molayne my point still stands - a poor match-up against 2 of the Elite Four is... pretty bad.



Yes, I acknowledged this in my post. The problem isn’t that, they are absolutely absurdly powerful, it’s just that I’m opposed to them rising any higher than E due to how impractical it is to obtain a specific one. If grouped together, I can see justification for D, but even then some of the legendaries are decidely mediocre - such as Regice, and especially Regigigas.
I think you might be underestimating Regice a bit - while it doesn't have a great matchup against either Molayne or Olivia, it's still going to be pretty good against most of the other battles (exceptions being Kiawe pretty much) due to actually quite good stats because of coming absurdly overleveled, an amazing movepool including instant Ice Beam and Thunderbolt (and Rock Polish if you're not using X items for whatever reason to let it attempt to sweep Hapu and Kahili), and really good bulk meaning that even against Molayne and Olivia it can actually help out a little bit.

Keep in mind that the thing is coming before the last trial and I don't think D rank is unreasonable for even Regice.
 
I think you might be underestimating Regice a bit - while it doesn't have a great matchup against either Molayne or Olivia, it's still going to be pretty good against most of the other battles (exceptions being Kiawe pretty much) due to actually quite good stats because of coming absurdly overleveled, an amazing movepool including instant Ice Beam and Thunderbolt (and Rock Polish if you're not using X items for whatever reason to let it attempt to sweep Hapu and Kahili), and really good bulk meaning that even against Molayne and Olivia it can actually help out a little bit.

Keep in mind that the thing is coming before the last trial and I don't think D rank is unreasonable for even Regice.
Who actually does use the X items, I shrug them off as "items" and dont use them at all
 

Merritt

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Who actually does use the X items, I shrug them off as "items" and dont use them at all
Especially in gen 7, they're outstandingly good. It's SD or Nasty Plot or Agility in a can. They can let you skate through major battles that would otherwise be difficult without issue.
 
Ok, let's talk about Togedemaru.

First off, it is absurdly improved when compared to his SM self. This time it actually *gets* moves, including an important Steel STAB in Iron Head. But does that mean Toge's good? I'd say... yes!

It arrives at level 30 when your team (without EXP Share) should be around level 38-40. As soon as you get it you can tutor him Iron Head and Zen Headbutt (for coverage), and a few levels later it learns Zing Zap, his signature move. All of them can cause flinch, which is great with its high Speed, a rarity among Gen. 7 Pokemon. Electrium-Z and Steelium-Z are received a bit after you can catch it, so you can get strong STAB Z-moves on him quick.

In important battles, Togedemaru shines against Guzma's Golisopod/Masquerain combo (that caused my team so many problems until then), while also having important E4 matchups against Kahili and portion of Acerola's team. What defines him in those battles is that he will never be the threatening sweeper, but he will never be deadweight either. Togedemaru is consistent with its speed and great typing.

It also learns Fell Stinger, a move that is a bit of a gimmick but is amazing to pick off weakened foes and get an amazing +3 boost. His +3 Zing Zap OHKO'd Archie's Kyogre.

Of course, there is a question of competition: he shares a type with S-tiered Magnemite.

All in all, Togedemaru is a pretty neat electric type. I liked using him, and comparing him to other Pokemon I used that are currently tiered, I would rank him at B. While his stats didn't allow him to be as effective as Mudbray or Grimer, he definitely contributed as much as Rowlet with great typing, speed and gimmick (flinch-hax!).
 
Ok, let's talk about Togedemaru.

First off, it is absurdly improved when compared to his SM self. This time it actually *gets* moves, including an important Steel STAB in Iron Head. But does that mean Toge's good? I'd say... yes!

It arrives at level 30 when your team (without EXP Share) should be around level 38-40. As soon as you get it you can tutor him Iron Head and Zen Headbutt (for coverage), and a few levels later it learns Zing Zap, his signature move. All of them can cause flinch, which is great with its high Speed, a rarity among Gen. 7 Pokemon. Electrium-Z and Steelium-Z are received a bit after you can catch it, so you can get strong STAB Z-moves on him quick.

In important battles, Togedemaru shines against Guzma's Golisopod/Masquerain combo (that caused my team so many problems until then), while also having important E4 matchups against Kahili and portion of Acerola's team. What defines him in those battles is that he will never be the threatening sweeper, but he will never be deadweight either. Togedemaru is consistent with its speed and great typing.

It also learns Fell Stinger, a move that is a bit of a gimmick but is amazing to pick off weakened foes and get an amazing +3 boost. His +3 Zing Zap OHKO'd Archie's Kyogre.

Of course, there is a question of competition: he shares a type with S-tiered Magnemite.

All in all, Togedemaru is a pretty neat electric type. I liked using him, and comparing him to other Pokemon I used that are currently tiered, I would rank him at B. While his stats didn't allow him to be as effective as Mudbray or Grimer, he definitely contributed as much as Rowlet with great typing, speed and gimmick (flinch-hax!).
Seconded on a B ranking. A while back I did an US run with Togedemaru and while I had an oddly tough time of finding a decent natured one with Iron Barbs (I vaguely remember doing a small SOS chain but it was maybe just my bad luck) it was one of my best team members regardless, if not the best, though I can't remember what other mons I used. Flinching is great and it resists a lot. It may not be the best Electric due to late-ish availability, but it's pretty much the best Pikaclone in any Pokemon game, at least in my opinion.
 
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