• Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!

Unconventional tactics

Battlerek

Since many pokemon have similar strategies(slep talkers, choice banders)
I have made a bief list of moves i hope could counter these strategies.


Gastro ACID- used by the likes of cradily(only one you'd consider using,truth be told), cancels out pokemon moves, good way to neutralize the dread wobbuffet, guts and huge power.

Heal Block- stops resttalkers, roosters, and everyone else with instant recovery. Does not really kill leech seed, ut at least they can't heal from it.

Magic Coat- Though unreliable, can really screw over a lot of pokemon (Breloom, being one of them)

Guard Swap/Power swap- Unsure how their effects work exactly, but from my understanding these moves are great for making a dent at tanks( main reason i wanted to play Xatu, aside from being a wisher)

Skill swap- remember when you thought starmie's ability Illuminate was worthless? Not anymore. Skill swap basically cancels out the reason people use medicham

Torment- Prevens your opponent from using a move twice in succession, has the potential to stop sweeps.

Worry Seed- Sleep killer, Kills other special abilities too.

Wring out- Make those physical walls pay for max health evs.

Brine- Great revenge move.

Low Kick- It's the steel types grass knot (having second thoughts about being heavier than snorla, metagross) Not sure abou the damage calculation, though.

Punishment- I don't know the damage mechanics exactly, but if i'm right it's a great follow up to paralysis. (though most would rather use facade.)

Sky Attack- It's like fly, but scarier. Watch out for thunder, though.

I may have missed a few unusual moves, and i may be wrong about the technical stuff, so if you wish, reply.
 
Only 7 pokemon learn low kick and 3 of them learn close combat. The others all have brick break/focus punch/ cross chop/ sky uppercut.

I really can't see it being viable on anyone.
 
Low Kick is quite usable on Electivire. Better accuracy and most stuff it would hit is SE and quite heavy. I prefer it over Cross Chop personally.
 
Whilst I agree that Magic Coat is a very underrated move, I have to point out that it doesn't really "screw over" Breloom as you describe it to. It can bounce back Spores and such, but most Brelooms use Toxic Orbs, thus giving them status immunity.
 
The thing about that is, Brelooms tend to spore on the first turn, before their toxic orb activates (meaning no poison heal until they wake up).
 
Grass Knot is great because:

a- everyone learns it
b- Most ground and water types in OU are fat-asses.

Low kick would be cooler if a lot of pokes learned it, especially pokes yearning for a fighting move and don't have one . . . wait, there's brick break. /fail

Theoretically, even if everything and it's Mom got it-- while Grass Knot takes down some major tanks and walls (Hippowdon, Swampert, some lesser names as well), Low Kick doesn't really hit any major, major tanks and walls for super effective except for Blissey, who gets hit for only 60BP. >.> Well I guess the less prevelant but still fairly abundant Snorlax and Regice would hate the thing, and Empoleon gets hit at 80 BP, it's not the same thing as smacking a poke as common as Hippowdon with a 120BP super effective . . .

I guess that in the same way grass knot works wonders on hippowdon and swampert, low kick would be great for some pokes that get annoyed by tyranitar and heatran, and I guess Blissey and Weavile, though BP is only 60 against them.

Low-Kick Azelf for the win . . . xD Actually, I think Low Kick Azelf would be a lot of fun . . .
 
You mean Regigigas ' Crush Grip. Crush Claw is a fairly standard Normal type attack.


Sky Attack was described as a scarier version of Fly. It isn't really, as the user isn't protected on the first move. It is a strong attack with a high Critical Hit ratio, but that doesn't justify the two turns required to use it. Only really useable with that herb item, and then only once. Besides, 2 turn moves give amply oppotunity for the rival to switch to a counter, or to set up. Protect makes 2 turn moves worthless (other than Shadow Force, of course).
 
*cough* Wring Out and Crush Grip have a maximum damage of 110. Unless it OHKOs, it's infinitely worse on the second hit.

And I didn't know people used Medicham a lot. I'd say Worry Seed and Skill Swap aren't really worth the move slot in most cases.
 
Shineenigma said:
You mean Regigigas ' Crush Grip. Crush Claw is a fairly standard Normal type attack.


Sky Attack was described as a scarier version of Fly. It isn't really, as the user isn't protected on the first move. It is a strong attack with a high Critical Hit ratio, but that doesn't justify the two turns required to use it. Only really useable with that herb item, and then only once. Besides, 2 turn moves give amply oppotunity for the rival to switch to a counter, or to set up. Protect makes 2 turn moves worthless (other than Shadow Force, of course).
Click to expand...

Even then, the Power Herb item sucks >_>

Anyway, I am really interested in pseudo-trapping the opponent. Toxic/Wrap may have a use if Magnezone can come in and pwn the opponent. It can backfire if you end up Wrapping a Lucario or something however >_>

Meh... I love unconventional tactics as much as the next guy, but usually they're unconventional for a reason.
 
Salamence with White Herb Sky Attack may be able to OHKO the team's main counter for him (milotic, swampert, etc) so it wouldn't actually be that bad.

+1 Sky Attack vs Swampert: 74.26% - 87.38%
+1 Life Orb Dragon Claw: 55.45% - 65.35%

+1 Sky Attack vs Milotic: 82.74% - 97.21%
+1 Life Orb Dragon Claw: 61.68% - 72.59%

As you can see, it hits a great deal harder than even a Life Orbed Dragon Claw, so if you were going to attempt a late game sweep, and their counter was still healthy it could work.


Anyways, IMO, the best unconventional tactic is Timid Specstar. Dumb Celebi, staying in to "tank" the hit, but taking 64.60% - 75.99% from Ice Beam. Take that you stupid piece of lettuce! Don't forget Yache Chomp, trying to stay in on my "weak" Ice Beam but taking 80%+ from a half power Ice Beam. It's hilarious! And surf can nearly OHKO Tyranitar too! Grass Knot OHKOs Swampert!
 
skiddle said:
Salamence with White Herb Sky Attack may be able to OHKO the team's main counter for him (milotic, swampert, etc) so it wouldn't actually be that bad.

+1 Sky Attack vs Swampert: 74.26% - 87.38%
+1 Life Orb Dragon Claw: 55.45% - 65.35%

+1 Sky Attack vs Milotic: 82.74% - 97.21%
+1 Life Orb Dragon Claw: 61.68% - 72.59%

As you can see, it hits a great deal harder than even a Life Orbed Dragon Claw, so if you were going to attempt a late game sweep, and their counter was still healthy it could work.


Anyways, IMO, the best unconventional tactic is Timid Specstar. Dumb Celebi, staying in to "tank" the hit, but taking 64.60% - 75.99% from Ice Beam. Take that you stupid piece of lettuce! Don't forget Yache Chomp, trying to stay in on my "weak" Ice Beam but taking 80%+ from a half power Ice Beam. It's hilarious! And surf can nearly OHKO Tyranitar too! Grass Knot OHKOs Swampert!
Click to expand...

First off, White Herb nullifies stuff like Intimidate. You're thinking of Power Herb. And 2nd, Salamence doesn't even learn Sky Attack.
 
Dragontamer said:
Even then, the Power Herb item sucks >_>
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you there. I've been trounced more than once by an unexpected Power Herb SolarBeam on a Typhlosion or Camerupt. It may not be very useful in the Smogon standard game where Sandstorm's almost always active, but in other environments it can really pack a punch.
 
Dragontamer said:
Even then, the Power Herb item sucks >_>

Anyway, I am really interested in pseudo-trapping the opponent. Toxic/Wrap may have a use if Magnezone can come in and pwn the opponent. It can backfire if you end up Wrapping a Lucario or something however >_>
Click to expand...
I don't know about Power Herb sucking. Have you ever tried switching into a Honchkrow Sky Attack? Its like being hit by a steam train at full speed, 210 power off 125 attack followed by a 120 power Sucker Punch can and will punch a hole through most things.

Anyway psuedo-trapping appeals to me for encouraging safe switches in the same way Wobby forces turn late switches rather than pure trapping. That is unless the opponent can switch when you do...not to mention the only ones I'd use would be Fire Spin for type or Clamp for the extra power. I haven't really had a chance to try Wrap type moves in D/P.


Main problem with alot of the first post suggestions is either misunderstanding of how the moves work or there being better alternatives. Though there are a few good ones

Torment- Disable is far better and less delayed in effect.
Worry Seed- Skill Swap and even thats situational.
Heal Block- Only 5 turns and does not stop leftovers.
Gastro Acid- Situational and does not cancel certain traits.
Brine- Its power is determined by your OPPONENTS HP being less than half. Meaning you're better slapping them with a Hydro Pump from the word 'go'.
Wring Out/Crush Grip- Power cap of only 110 doesn't help nor does being a Normal move.
Guard Swap/Power Swap- Only exchanges the stat boosts. Not the actual stats, lot of good that is when they're Dragon Dancing in your face.
Sky Attack- Only one feasible user being Honchkrow. Otherwise its worse than Fly seeing you can get hit on the first hit and theres no stat boost like what Razor Wind or Skull Bash give.


Then the actual good ones.


Magic Coat- Since it actually gets a speed priority its a very useful counter against sleepers and other status.
Skill Swap- It has its uses, its great against Ninjask, plus the effects have been fixed to work with Intimidate and etc. now.
Low Kick- Actually a very underrated move, even with moves like Close Combat available. It offers none of the disadvantages and has a high flinch effect to boot.
Punishment- This move is actually quite good but very misunderstood. It powers up when your opponent gets stat boosts. The actual formula however is what makes it appealing.
Its base power is always set as a 60 power Dark type attack but has a power cap of over 200 power. For every 1 level stat your opponent boosts, Punishment powers up by x1.25. However if your opponent boosts 2 levels it powers up by x1.5.
Basically after one Swords Dance or Dragon Dance they eat a 90 power Dark attack, 135 w/ STAB. If they have two Swords Dance or Dragon Dance then they eat a 135 power Dark attack, 202 w/STAB. Main use I see for this is breaking the bulky Calm Minders seeing majority of them are weak or neutral to Dark.
 
Punishment is actually even better than what Forsety is letting on. (Where's that Punishment info coming from, anyway?)

Every stat boost by the opponent adds 20 BP to Punishment's power (200 maximum). After a Dragon Dance or Swords Dance it would hit for 100 BP; 140 BP after two.

I usually associate Punishment with Absol seeing as how it's the strongest STAB user of the move, but Weavile's speed may make it the best user of the move overall.
 
I have seen success of a Kecleon with this set;
~Mirror Coat
~Snatch
~Focus Punch
~Sucker Punch


Not sure of the item/EV spread, but I viewed a couple of matches on Shoddy with it as a lead. Very effective and fun, if you're good and enjoy prediction.
 
Gastro Acid, doesn't stop Shadow Tag (not 100% sure), it can stop some good abilities, but it's risky.
Skill Swap, better be used in double battle (Skill Swapping partner Slaking/Regigigas and then at the opponent if you have time to).
Worry Seed, can stop SleepTalkers, but that's pretty much it.
Magic Coat, it underrated, and I've used a Porygon2 lead with it, and it's been working wonders :) "EviMario's K's set is also pretty neat with the Magic Coat/Snatch combo).
Torment, can cripple/stop sweepers/choice users, but it depends on luck.
Wring Out/Crush Grip: Not much of max power.
Low Kick: Can be used on some things, but since Blissey is better to be hit with Brick Break/Close Combat, and not many things really suffer from it and don't from BB/CC.
Punishment: It works well on stat uppers, especially Calm Minders (Celebi/Raikou.. I'm looking at you).
Brine: Only is 130BP (195 with STAB) if the foe's HP is lower than 50%... it'd be better if it worked otherwise (then Sub/Torrent/Brine combo would common and good).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top