Unpopular opinions

Don't forget GSC's limit of eight numbers. Sure, you'd want to get rid of Youngster Joey yammering on about his Rattata or Picnicker Liz calling the wrong number over and over again, but there are many more than eight useful callers, either for swarms, Stones, or even good-XP rematches.
Oh Wow, I did not know that. They must have removed this from HGSS, because I never noticed this in the remakes.
 
Oh Wow, I did not know that. They must have removed this from HGSS, because I never noticed this in the remakes.
They did, yes. Much better.
I will stop you right here peasant, noone trashtalks Joey's top percentile Rattatas and lives to tell the tale, fite me
It's not even "top percentage" until the remakes. I said what I said.
 
That was introduced in Crystal and carried over to HGSS. It was much worse in the original Gold and Silver , with the 4 elemental evolution stones being locked in the post-game via an NPC that only gives you one of each over the course of 4 IRL days.
Additionally in GSC, you could also get the water/fire/thunder/leaf stones from the mystery gift (works on the VC releases through the 3DS's infrared port), just connect it up with another system and you have a, uhhh, .2% chance to receive a individual stone. nice. Johto does not like stone evolutions.
 

Pikachu315111

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I guess it's unpopular that I don't like ORAS redesigns for Archie and Maxie?
It felt weirdly gimmicky, and odd cuz Archie was redesigned WAY more into a pirate caricature...while Maxie gets glasses
Neither really are present in the game either, nor crazed enough to suddenly sport "anime" wear. Though to be fair, Adventures Manga handled both sides way better (Archie actually takes advantage of his basic looks to run the media corps undercover)
Then again not really a fan of human designs after early 4, and especially when Sugimori stopped doing them after BW
While their ORAS designs have grown on me, well:
  • Maxie's ORAS design I'm fine with, it's Tabitha's I have a problem with. I have no problem with big guys and had he been a new character would be perfectly fine, but he looks nothing like the original Tabitha.
  • Archie's ORAS design if you take a quick glance look fine, but if you look at it closely you may tilt your head. Okay, I get it, they specialize in Water-type, but we don't see them in the water so why are they in wetsuits? That feels super cartoony. Matt I'm fine with even though his clothes are just as cartoony as the other, but it does go along with who the original Matt was. Shelly though I don't agree with the changes, I felt her original design was actually pretty iconic due to her long red hair but the ORAS design both makes her more "plain" but also sexualize her which wasn't part of the character before. Once again, fine if she was a new character.
Kind of funny how in the Manga it's Team Aqua who are the ones in control of the media when, if you know what the real life inspirations for Team Aqua & Magma, that sounds more like something Team Magma would be doing.

It's not even "top percentage" until the remakes. I said what I said.
Well he keeps calling it a Rattata even though it evolves into a Raticate later so I think Joey may need some glasses...
 
I... wouldn't go all out and say they are the worst (IMO that goes to Yellow), but that it's overrated is certainly something I agree with (and mostly for the same reasons you've stated). HGSS more than GSC, as while it might look pretty, it's still the same flawed game underneath.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that in my initial post. How HGSS really didn't fix the flaws and just used smoke and mirrors (following Pokemon) to disguise it. Or what fixes they picked just became more annoying (the Johto Safari Zone). It is like adding icing to a stale cupcake. If the foundation is no good, no amount of cosmetic covering will save it.
 
Kind of funny how in the Manga it's Team Aqua who are the ones in control of the media when, if you know what the real life inspirations for Team Aqua & Magma, that sounds more like something Team Magma would be doing.
Adventures Archie was big brain enough so he took control of the media before they were seen as crazy environmentalists like Magma. Also, Magma were scavengers there, which it feels kinda off considering how more sophisticated Maxie is.

Also, he had Walrein. Several Walrein. In the anime, several grunts used Walrein. Why didn't RSE nor ORAS do that? Definitely a better roster than what they have (although at least AS gave them Grimer/Muk).
 
Which doesn't even make sense, since Muk is water pollution, and Team Aqua is firmly against water pollution.
I think they're only in favor of water expansion, and Muk can thrive in it. Poochyena line is the most baffling one imo, how can this doggy live when everything's flooded.

I dunno, Hoenn introduced plenty of water types but Aqua only uses Carvanha line (except ONE grunt in Emerald that uses Wailmer, that's it lol)
 
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I will say that the level curve, while still there, is not near as much of a problem in GSC as it is in HGSS.

The difference in levels is still largely the same, but many enemy Pokémon in Gen 2 still have movesets similar to those in Gen 1, with moves like Lick, Charm, Sand Attack. You still have the advantage of using TMs to stengthen your own Pokémon, but enemy Pokémon will maybe know 1 or 2 good attacking moves, which balances out the higher levels. You also have the small advantage of stat EXP over EVs, meaning Pokémon in GSC tend to be bulkier than they are in HGSS. I was able to beat Red my first playthrough with primarily with a ~Lvl. 57 Jynx and Sudowoodo, but there's no way you're going to beat Red without grinding to the mid-to-high 60's in HGSS.

The problem with HGSS is that it exacerbated the level curve by improving enemy movesets and ramping up the levels post-game. I've played HGSS religiously since it came out in 2010 and I can usually get all the way to the E4 rematch/Red before I have any trouble with grinding, but I repeatedly have no problem with Red playing GSC, without any grinding.

For this reason, though HGSS has many more QoL features, I think GSC is a much more enjoyable experience than HGSS. Crystals battle tower is fun too.
 
GSC/HGSS are the worst games in the series. They completely mismanaged every advantage they had. Even their positive points were tainted by horrible decisions.

Let's see:

1. The new Pokemon. While there are some solid designs (Espeon, Umbreon, Heracross, etc), most of them are either Baby Pokemon or single stage Dex filler. But the biggest sin is that most of them play second fiddle in their region or they are not even in Johto! They are either only available at night or in the early morning, they are hard to obtain (trade evolutions),annoying to evolve (happiness) or locked into postgame. Nothing like a new game that hides away the largest selling point but throws the common Kanto Pokemon in your face! And the ones that are available largely flounder. Take Ledian. Great design but unusable.

2. Mismanagement of new assets. Sure, Dark and Steel Types expanded the gameplay but good luck using those types in your playthrough. Unlike XY, which proudly showcased the Fairy Type, GSC hides away these two new types. Actually using them to win Johto Badges? Nah. That is a luxury. The cell phone. Great idea. But locking stones behind the cell phone was imbecile. Sell them in the stores. We know how the cell phone works. Same deal with happiness evolution for Espeon and Umbreon. Use the Sun and Moon Stones. Game Freak apparently believed we needed constant reinforcement to remember they invented happiness evolutions. The Bug Catching Content. No Johto Pokemon in it despite debuting several new bugs.

3. The level curve. Enough said.

4. The addition of Kanto. Cool concept but it was an empty shell. Everything unique about Kanto was either stripped or downscaled. Sure, fighting the full teams of the Kanto Gym Leaders was exciting but that could have been done in Johto in some room.

5. Speaking of Gym Leaders. The Johto Leaders used only four Johto Pokemon for no discernible reason. Metapod and Kakuna? Really?!

So much wasted potential.
While I wouldn't agree that GSC or HGSS are the worst games in the series, I agree with your points.

I see people putting up HGSS as the best game of the franchise and I'm like: :pikuh:

HGSS is pretty much a Gen 4 coat of paint on the same dumb issues GSC had. Toggleable Running Shoes? Good graphics and presentation? Following Mons? All cool stuff. They don't fix the level curve, Johto mons being out of focus, Kanto being an empty husk, and Johto being a squished region with a route split that just isn't sustainable.

In fact, because of the TM availability and the faster pace of the game compared to how slow the Gen 4 engine is, I play GSC over HGSS pretty much all the time. The mons available just feel weak compared to a lot of other games like Platinum, BW2, XY, and SwSh.

HGSS, as a remake, is too timid to actually address the original's flaws. That is just not a good trait in a remake. At least the level curve had to be properly addressed.
 

Pikachu315111

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Adventures Archie was big brain enough so he took control of the media before they were seen as crazy environmentalists like Magma. Also, Magma were scavengers there, which it feels kinda off considering how more sophisticated Maxie is.
I was more referring to what Tama Hiroka said about the teams' origins in her retro review of Diamond & Pearl. Apparently around the time of Diamond & Pearl there was an economic situation going on where Japan's population was about to/has exceeded their food production but they had no more land to farm. The Japanese government decided to drain the last lake they hadn't already drained, however they met strong opposition from environmentalists and people who made a living on the lake. In the end the government won out and the lake was drained and the effects of that is still being felt today in Japan (and not in a good way).

So with that in mind it would sound like Team Magma would have control over the media while Aqua was the scrappy rebellious group. I'd imagine Aqua's supporters would be the grassroots community who felt they've been ignored or oppressed by the government.

Also, he had Walrein. Several Walrein. In the anime, several grunts used Walrein. Why didn't RSE nor ORAS do that? Definitely a better roster than what they have (although at least AS gave them Grimer/Muk).
If I was to redo their teams (going to do a full team of 6):

Archie: Sharpedo, Walrein, Ludicolo, Starmie, Wailord, Kingdra
Maxie: Camerupt, Houndoom, Shiftry, Claydol, Relicanth, Flygon

Feels this makes the most sense. Yeah, Archie is all Water-type, but it's a vast ocean of Water-type diversity (Ludicolo is a stretch but I did it for dichotomy with Maxie's Shiftry). Meanwhile Maxie's Pokemon has a wider Type coverage as life on land had adapted in many different ways and land itself comes in different forms.
 
I know, I watched her Ruby and Sapphire review, pretty insightful video. The Archie from the manga must have been genre savvy enough to know what
I was more referring to what Tama Hiroka said about the teams' origins in her retro review of Diamond & Pearl. Apparently around the time of Diamond & Pearl there was an economic situation going on where Japan's population was about to/has exceeded their food production but they had no more land to farm. The Japanese government decided to drain the last lake they hadn't already drained, however they met strong opposition from environmentalists and people who made a living on the lake. In the end the government won out and the lake was drained and the effects of that is still being felt today in Japan (and not in a good way).

So with that in mind it would sound like Team Magma would have control over the media while Aqua was the scrappy rebellious group. I'd imagine Aqua's supporters would be the grassroots community who felt they've been ignored or oppressed by the government.



If I was to redo their teams (going to do a full team of 6):

Archie: Sharpedo, Walrein, Ludicolo, Starmie, Wailord, Kingdra
Maxie: Camerupt, Houndoom, Shiftry, Claydol, Relicanth, Flygon

Feels this makes the most sense. Yeah, Archie is all Water-type, but it's a vast ocean of Water-type diversity (Ludicolo is a stretch but I did it for dichotomy with Maxie's Shiftry). Meanwhile Maxie's Pokemon has a wider Type coverage as life on land had adapted in many different ways and land itself comes in different forms.
I watched her Ruby and Sapphire vid so I know what you were talking about. This manga Archie seemed genre savvy enough to know what will happen so he took control of the news, and it worked.

Also, I just remembered this old piece of art.

different types.png
 
While I wouldn't agree that GSC or HGSS are the worst games in the series, I agree with your points.

I see people putting up HGSS as the best game of the franchise and I'm like: :pikuh:

HGSS is pretty much a Gen 4 coat of paint on the same dumb issues GSC had. Toggleable Running Shoes? Good graphics and presentation? Following Mons? All cool stuff. They don't fix the level curve, Johto mons being out of focus, Kanto being an empty husk, and Johto being a squished region with a route split that just isn't sustainable.

In fact, because of the TM availability and the faster pace of the game compared to how slow the Gen 4 engine is, I play GSC over HGSS pretty much all the time. The mons available just feel weak compared to a lot of other games like Platinum, BW2, XY, and SwSh.

HGSS, as a remake, is too timid to actually address the original's flaws. That is just not a good trait in a remake. At least the level curve had to be properly addressed.
I guess much of my frustration does come from this sort of universal sentiment that GSC/HGSS were the peak of the franchise.

That is my beef. The new fixtures are stylish but the old problems remain. It is makeup on a blemish. How do you not fix that horrible level curve or Pokemon rosters? Remakes are there to fix errors not gloss over them.

I understand why people love the games (16 gyms, new types, two regions (albeit shortened), new Pokemon) but I just can't ignore how badly the new factors were handled. Yeah, the games introduced a lot but those add-ons weren't used correctly. Why is the point of new types/Pokemon if they are hidden away or annoying to obtain?
 

Pikachu315111

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This manga Archie seemed genre savvy enough to know what will happen so he took control of the news, and it worked.
I don't think that's it at all. I'm curious if the manga caught on the theme because, since GF dumbed it down so much, the theme was lost on pretty much everyone. Aqua getting media control in the manga was a flip of the coin, one of the teams would have done it and it landed in Aqua's favor. Heck this wasn't even a factor in the games, both teams were just doing what they wanted to do. Though several gens later they would have Team Flare control the news media. Speaking of which.

Eh, Magma is a land-based team. While that certainly means Ground, Fire isn't out of the question. Heck, Groudon's Ability benefits Fire-types the most, and when it Primal Reverses it becomes a Ground/Fire with a more powerful version of its Ability that really benefits Fire-types (and notably Kyogre's Ability and Primal Ability both hinder Fire-types rather then Ground-types).

Also Team Flare wasn't even Fire-theme. The grunts used Poison- & Dark-types. Some Admins used Houndoom but some also used Manectric and kept on using Poison- and Dark-types. The Scientists were just a random handful of Pokemon, Mable only one to use a Houndoom and Xerosic had a Volcarona he didn't use but had Emma use as Essentia (and left with her). Malva is a Fire-type specialist though you don't find out she was working for Team Flare until post game. Finally Lysandre has Pyroar which probably normally be his ace but since they introduced Mega Evos they wanted him to have one so gave him a Mega Gyarados. Overall "Flare" is just an aesthetic theme chosen cause it sounds like "Flair" (cause they seem themselves as a fashionable team) and "fleur-de-lis" (a symbol that was used to represent the royal family).
 
You mean basically a supermajority of grunts of any team? Ever since Team Rocket of Gen 1 and 2, a lot of grunts use either a Poison-type (most often a Zubat or Golbat), a Dark-type, the regional rodent, or in the case of Team Aqua and Magma, a Carvanha or Numel respectively, with a very few deviations in-between. The Hypno line was also uncommon but still oft-present in comparison whenever that line was available.

That really reeks a lack of originality between the teams, and it especially hurts the Team Flare grunts, admins, and even the underwhelming scientists as they got nothing to really stand out from past teams in terms of what Pokémon they use.
 
Houndour was the perfect signature Pokemon for Team Flare and they blew it.

It's still a Dark-type, but Dark/Fire fits the team to a T.
I admit to being genuinely surprised when Lysandre's mega wasn't houndoom. Of course, the fact that I wasn't expecting him to be stupid enough to willingly make his gyarados a dark-type against someone who just obtained Xerneas right in front of him may have had something to do with it.
 

Pikachu315111

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That really reeks a lack of originality between the teams, and it especially hurts the Team Flare grunts, admins, and even the underwhelming scientists as they got nothing to really stand out from past teams in terms of what Pokémon they use.
For Team Rocket I guess it makes sense for them to use Poison-types as they're supposed to be thugs and easy way to cripple someone is by poisoning them. Though they do throw in other com mons so they're not completely mowed through by Ground & Psychic-types (makes me wonder if they made Bulbasaur part Poison-type is so that it would be neutral to Poison thus be on equal ground with Charmander & Squirtle against the Rocket grunts). Also with Giovanni being a Ground-type specialist having your villain team use a Type you're strong against is good to keep your minions in line. It only gets disappointing with Team Rocket with the Admins, you'd think they would at least have better Pokemon (they had a Game Corner handing them out, would actually have been a neat reference for them to use Pokemon that were given away thinking about it).

As we discussed it was a major disappointment with Team Aqua & Magma. Yes, Aqua grunts did use Carvahna and Magma grunts used Numel but there were so many other Water, Ground, and Fire-types (or other Pokemon that relied living in water or on land) they could have used.

Galactic, Plasma, & Flare they could have done better. No reason they should have stuck with Poison and Dark mostly. For Galactic maybe aim for more space'alien-themed Pokemon, like they used Bronzor and the Wurmple family but could have done more. Plasma could have actually base the grunts on what Pokemon was available on the surrounding routes, pretty much apply N's gimmick to the grunts. Finally Flare, if they wanted to establish a theme for them though one that wasn't fire, maybe focused on Pokemon colors; the Grunts use Red/Brown colored Pokemon, the Admins & Xerosic use White, the Scientist Ladies use the colors of their glasses, and Lysandre uses Red/Brown & Black.

Team Skull I'm willing to forgive as they're supposed to be pathetic so use com mons you can easily catch on routes.

Aether Foundation had fantastic coverage, they actually felt like they could challenge you (... if they had more than two Pokemon each...)!

Ultra Recon Squad makes sense but still was disappointing, considering what you learned what they were doing when they battled you with Furfrou you might have thought they'd challenge you with a batch of Pokemon in different Poke Balls, but nope once they had Poipole that was it for them.

Team Yell I'm also willing to overlook as their leader is a Dark-type specialist.

Macro Cosmos actually was a nice relief as they were Steel-type focused because Rose was a Steel-Type specialist, though if you had a Pokemon that was SE against Steel that probably didn't really matter (Oleana probably was the most difficult as she used Pokemon of different Types at least).

I admit to being genuinely surprised when Lysandre's mega wasn't houndoom. Of course, the fact that I wasn't expecting him to be stupid enough to willingly make his gyarados a dark-type against someone who just obtained Xerneas right in front of him may have had something to do with it.
They wanted Lysandre to have a male Pyroar so giving him a Fire-type Mega on top of that probably would have felt redundant.

Also Lysandre's team in general sucks against Xerneas. It honestly felt made to try to sell players on the Fairy-type...
 

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I'm actually kinda glad they didn't make Regieleki and Regidrago's movepools too good. Did they go overboard with the lack of coverage? Probably. On the other hand this means there shouldn't be that ridiculous of a viability discrepancy between them and the OGs: They get the better movepool, the new ones get the more optimized stats, abilities and moves. I'm sure they'll do fine either way, perhaps not OU but still should carve a niche somewhere in the mid-tiers not unlike Registeel
 
Given that the CT datamine thread is having some kind of day, here's what appears to be an unpopular opinion: I like and am broadly satisfied with the Crown Tundra
Likewise. Half of Unova's legendaries also had limited movepools, and that never stopped them being good. Not letting the Tapus dominate another generation of VGC was a good idea, and they're still decent as terrain setters. Dynamax Adventures are a lot of fun so far, too.

Only thing I'm disappointed in is Ice Rider's stats, but it can self-set Trick Room or use Agility and has 130BP STAB with no drawbacks coming off 165 base attack, so I think it will still see some use. They're clearly trying to strike a balance between legends with good stat blocks but limited movepools and legends with awkward stat blocks but great movepools, and I'm fine with that. Besides, we're getting like 10 new legendaries -- did people seriously expect them to all be good in OU?
 
I don't have much time to play at the moment but Crown Tundra is looking very good. I love the concept of Calyrex "fusions" and how much it differs from Kyurem and Necrozma. Those two possess their host (Reshiram or Zekrom, Solgaleo and Lunala) and take complete control over it.

Calyrex and Spectrier/Glastrier, on the other hand, work together As One (lame pun I know) and it reflects very well. Displaying both abilities at the same time, their battle theme being both themes combined, and this is the big one: they actually combine both of their movepools which helps them a lot. Calyrex appreciates the stat boost, while the steed appreciate the moves gained (more coverage for Spectrier, Speed control for Glastrier). It's pretty well done imo while being so simple as riding a horse.
 

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