i didnt say delphox's idle is good i said that fanmade examples of what people say they want are way worse
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Braixen does it with their existing stick in Pokken.
This is somewhat false. We have direct rips from both games to compare. They both are based on a higher poly CG model for baking normal maps, but are ultimately different for UVs and varying on mon, mesh detail. XY also applies deformation on high poly meshes for smoke/certain fire effects, while Pokedex 3D simply uses 2D particles. Note how dumb this'll be later
For the times the meshes are nearly identical (Swampert here) both have the same poly count and pose as both use the same sculpt, but the bone hierarchies are different, with XY (right) having a lot more extraneous bone end tips for IK anim assisting, while Pokedex 3D Pro focuses on extra bones being setup for the camera origin. Textures oddly have completely different UVs
We even have some Maya sculpt files in the leak for XY meshes before they retopo'd as lower poly models
Skinning even differs for mons with the same mesh, so many anims are different. Some straight up retargeted from Stadium because 1 dev was from Stadium-Colo dev (Misaki Nakaoka, for Charmeleon and Bayleef especially)
Do note that the devs that made these models for Pokedex 3D Pro and XY are the same (Imagica Digitalscape Co., Ltd., contracted by Creatures Inc and GF). They had shifted workflow and experiences per game (some are from PokePark Dev, others newly for 3D Pro/XY). I noticed XY generally resizes claws/teeth to be bigger so that it's more visible for the low res screen, even for mons with identical poly count, while 3D Pro doesn't care as you can zoom in easily
3D Pro
XY (note, paw size is the same, but claws aren't)
Meowth's whiskers are also thicker for XY than Pokedex 3D Pro. Incidentally, he's one of the few models in 3D Pro that's lower polyignoring fire and smoke fx than XY (5.6K vs 5.8K)
He also has multiple versions in the leaks for XY builds
We even have some Maya sculpt files in the leak for XY meshes before they retopo'd as lower poly models
Skinning even differs for mons with the same mesh, so many anims are different. Some straight up retargeted from Stadium because 1 dev was from Stadium-Colo dev (Misaki Nakaoka, for Charmeleon and Bayleef especially)
Do note that the devs that made these models for Pokedex 3D Pro and XY are the same (Imagica Digitalscape Co., Ltd., contracted by Creatures Inc and GF). They had shifted workflow and experiences per game (some are from PokePark Dev, others newly for 3D Pro/XY). I noticed XY generally resizes claws/teeth to be bigger so that it's more visible for the low res screen, even for mons with identical poly count, while 3D Pro doesn't care as you can zoom in easily
3D Pro
XY (note, paw size is the same, but claws aren't)
Meowth's whiskers are also thicker for XY than Pokedex 3D Pro. Incidentally, he's one of the few models in 3D Pro that's lower poly
He also has multiple versions in the leaks for XY builds
And this all ignores that GF could've simply used more optimized models for a battle sim with Triple battles, reserving the higher poly models only for Pokedex/Summary Screen. 6 Moltres' straight up crashes the system (because the fire is a high poly deformation object instead of optimized particles, ahhhh)
Side Note: the leaks showed that shifting to coloring textures to be like Sugi's desaturated art was a mid dev change. They initially had more saturated textures for Gen 1-3 mons
Cept Entei, bitch is the only HGSS mon for art that's well saturated, and the XY model retains that
can we talk about the pokemon mystery dungeon 3D models and how they look really fucking weird with their shaders in rescue team dx
GTI/SMD and the higher poly RTDX models are likely based on the same CG sculpt used for Pokedex 3D Pro. Here is Swampert's (RTDX on Left, Pro on Right). Had to repose 3D Pro heavily, but it's eerily similar for mesh shape, outside of RTDX's better lower jaw, and bigger teeth for 3D
UVs are again different
The texturing style for actual char models is nearly identical to PokePark-3D Pro, the shit shader RTDX uses is its own problem. Shame cuz I do like the mesh tiles dungeons use
If I had to guess, these sculpts existed around after PBR in the middle of Gen 4, properly credited to Imagica Digitalscape Co., Ltd. for PokePark to debut them. Then Chunsoft used these for refs to make low poly retopos for GTI then Super, and again for RTDX, while Creatures had Imagica make new revisions for XY on models. The 3D Pro models would be reused for Smash 4 Trophies, halting the use of Stadium-Colo models in Smash Bros
UVs are again different
The texturing style for actual char models is nearly identical to PokePark-3D Pro, the shit shader RTDX uses is its own problem. Shame cuz I do like the mesh tiles dungeons use
If I had to guess, these sculpts existed around after PBR in the middle of Gen 4, properly credited to Imagica Digitalscape Co., Ltd. for PokePark to debut them. Then Chunsoft used these for refs to make low poly retopos for GTI then Super, and again for RTDX, while Creatures had Imagica make new revisions for XY on models. The 3D Pro models would be reused for Smash 4 Trophies, halting the use of Stadium-Colo models in Smash Bros
honestly I thought the PMD models were remade (but of course largely based on the existing ones) kinda like a weird thing halfway of rumble and just the full models
but yeah this makes sense, im just dumb LOL
TBF, PBR definitely established this flatter saturated texturing and modeling style for Gen 4/some 1 mons. Some devs there went to Pokepark onwards dev
Rumble models were definitely used for Mystery Dungeon Wiiware, not GTI. It seems to specifically be made for Wiiware limitations, despite reuse on Wii U Rumble
Rumble models were definitely used for Mystery Dungeon Wiiware, not GTI. It seems to specifically be made for Wiiware limitations, despite reuse on Wii U Rumble
Ehh, I get the idea of future-proofing, but ultimately, that's why people went beyond mad about SwSh.
Ironically, I don't think the price tag was the issue.
It was all very symptomatic. They had that disastrous showcase explaining Dexit, and then when they showed the game...
- The Tree.
- Outrageously bad animations across the board.
- The same future-proofed models that were supposed to prevent this from happening to begin with
The whole point of Dexit was to divert resources into polishing the game, and SwSh was blatantly not benefiting from any of that.
I wasn't saying that it was, just that it was what made the controversy louder than it would've otherwise been. Lots of games release with scummy practices or horrendously bad graphics and have discourses that do not leave their communities whatsoever.
Totally agree with you. It had its flaws, but the fresh approach was actually pretty fun.
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"Legends Arceus is actually bad and overhyped, it only looks decent in comparison to stuff like BDSP"
I wish I could be that generous to L:A. BDSP is real rough and I know it, but it looked good enough by comparison that I bought it within a couple weeks of L:A coming out.
I know it's not exactly an unpopular opinion to say L:A was good, but yeah, it was a really good game and does show that Pokémon can work with an open world, though granted the smaller scale definitely helps there. I mean it can't be too bad a game if some guys rip it off, stick ARK style base building to it, and then get PC untermensch to say Pokémon should change to be more like it.
Really though, I think the big thing with the issues they have with open worlds have to do with the scale and dev time. I mean the Wild Area in SwSh was added mid development because people responded well to wandering Pokémon in Let's Go, so there's only so much you can do for that on such short notice. Add in the short dev cycles that Pokémon games get despite the devs' ambitions growing larger and larger, and you end up getting many of the issues of the main games such as background graphics. Can you work those out and get the game running well? Yes, but not easily when you've got maybe 2 years to do it. And it's not like we haven't known some of the games can be rushed due to poor dev times. The 3DS era itself was pretty guilty of this. Frankly, you can tell there are aspirations of making the games AAA experiences while the production environment is lagging behind leading to what you have now.
Really though, I think the big thing with the issues they have with open worlds have to do with the scale and dev time. I mean the Wild Area in SwSh was added mid development because people responded well to wandering Pokémon in Let's Go, so there's only so much you can do for that on such short notice. Add in the short dev cycles that Pokémon games get despite the devs' ambitions growing larger and larger, and you end up getting many of the issues of the main games such as background graphics. Can you work those out and get the game running well? Yes, but not easily when you've got maybe 2 years to do it. And it's not like we haven't known some of the games can be rushed due to poor dev times. The 3DS era itself was pretty guilty of this. Frankly, you can tell there are aspirations of making the games AAA experiences while the production environment is lagging behind leading to what you have now.
Legends Arceus is like the opposite of open world though. Extremely strict story progression beats. You're generally free to go back and explore old areas as much as you want in between said beats, and which Pokédex tasks you complete to up your rank is flexible, but I don't see how that differs from choosing what Pokémon to catch or how to battle gym leaders in the main series.
is this you smallant?
No, the problem is Nintendo and their hardware - the Switch was old tech when it first came out and has suffered massively in the last couple of years across third party titles.
Scarlet/Violet was a massively ambitious game that had to be scaled back significantly and run deliberately poorly to work at all on the Switch.
You can see this from the Tera leaks. There was this YouTube video where the SV engine and its original intended graphical package was shown off and it was like night and day.
When Game Freak realised that the art style and the frame rate had to be cut back for SV, you could see in what came out little hints of frustration in the limitations that were set.
I am guaranteeing you all, the graphical upgrade to SV when Switch 2 drops will restore the base game to what it always should have been.
And there will be a mass reevaluation of Pokemon Scarlet/Violet, because it was the graphics and frame rate that were the biggest issues.
Switch 2, on the other hand, is running 120 frames per second in handheld mode, something absolutely unheard of prior to this year. Better than the steam deck in that respect. On a HD TV, Switch 2 games and anything with a graphics upgrade is going to look amazing.
Which is why, with all respect, Gen 10 - coming off the back of three extremely experimental titles for Game Freak and Nintendo (PLA, SV, PLZA) is going to slap incredibly hard IMO. They’ve worked out the direction, they’ve worked out what’s possible, they’ve had three years of fans complaining bloody hard about SV’s issues and how much we loved elements of PLA.
I have faith that Gen 10 is going to blow our tiny little minds…
(Of course, this could all be copium on my part…!)
Well, I'm not the kind who's extremely optimistic or pessimistic, but I do think Gen 10 has potential to be pretty great on the Switch 2. Not just because of the better hardware and because of how they've experimented with every game in the Switch era, but also because this current generation is a longer one than usual.
Sword and Shield and Scarlet and Violet were subject to the usual three-year cycle, which definitely squandered their potential. But at this rate, now that we know for a fact that Legends: Z-A isn't coming out until Fall 2025, which means it's the mainline Pokemon series game for this year, that means the earliest Gen 10 is coming out is 2026, and on the Switch 2. And the fact that they (to my surprise) made a Switch 2 edition for Z-A and are updating SV for the Switch 2 suggests that they've been given more opportunity to get their hands dirty with the Switch 2 and what it's capable of, and in general given an extra year of time Gen 10's debut games will have, these games will likely be in a better state than SwSh and SV ended up in.
While I am critical of where the Switch era games have fallen short, I do see great potential in them and this era has, in an odd way, been the most interesting era for me to witness because every game has shown some interesting concepts that I feel have the potential to be great when fully realized, and I've enjoyed every one of them in spite of their shortcomings.
I feel Gen 10 will, at the very least, be a real step forward in a notable way, and while it's debatable whether it'll blow peoples' minds, or if it'll be on par with the rest of what the Switch 2 can offer, I feel it'll really feel even closer to being the console-scale Pokemon game I dreamed of seeing since I was a kid in the late 2000s playing Diamond and Pearl, and be a game that really feels the part, even if I do think there may still be room for improvement.
Pokémon started to decline way before the open world era.
This is also very subjective, as you didn't point out what makes a good pokémon game in your opinion.
I'm not going to say all open world games are slop. Just 95% of them.
The obvious issue with Pokémon as an open world game is that Game Freak can't even make a split path without the level curve collapsing (Hi, Johto!) so how does that even work in an open setting?
I'll tell you how it doesn't, the way SV did it. Good lord what a mess.
> "open world," "nonlinear" game
> all NPC battles have predefined levels, railroading the player onto an obvious optimal path anyway
> all NPC battles have predefined levels, railroading the player onto an obvious optimal path anyway
It's not the hardware that's at fault, it's talentless developers that are. They put out masterpieces in the GBA, DS and 3DS eras on less powerful hardware. They can't figure out a way to put in every single pokemon on the Switch.
Furthermore, the game was more open world and encouraged exploration in the top down games than it ever has been since the jump to 3D sprites. As for what i think is a good pokemon game, it's one that focuses more on the pokemon and the lore of the given region instead of the people in it and trying to make them more important.
I don't begrudge people for wanting to hold a twelve-figure dollar franchise to higher standards, but don't fall into the trap of glossing over shortcomings that have always been there.
Mainline Pokemon games that happen to also be technically proficient well-optimized showcases of their respective platforms have always been the exception, not the rule. There's almost always some kind of cut corner you can fixate on if you want to, and if you go all the way back you have stuff like RBY that is so janky it's sometimes charming.
Mainline Pokemon games that happen to also be technically proficient well-optimized showcases of their respective platforms have always been the exception, not the rule. There's almost always some kind of cut corner you can fixate on if you want to, and if you go all the way back you have stuff like RBY that is so janky it's sometimes charming.