Unpopular opinions

[Pikachu315111]

Ice & Rock:
Not sure if I mentioned my idea before, but if GF insists on making slow & defensive Rock- & Ice-types I think both need a special trait that, at a certain BST, they start becoming neutral and even resist certain Types. Which makes sense if you think about it, we all know different kind of rocks have different levels of strength and the same goes for ice depending on how it freezes & how thick the ice is. So I came up with the following "trait" (such as how Fire-types can't be burned, Ghosts can't be trapped, etc.) for both of them:

• Ice-types receive neutral damage from Fighting & Rock moves if they have high Defense and Fire moves if they have high Special Defense. This is based on the following BST & base stats: BST 499 & below is 80-109 base, BST 500-599 is 95-119 base, BST 600+ is 110-129 base.
• Rock-types receive neutral damage from Fighting & Ground moves if they have high Defense and Grass & Water moves if they have high Special Defense. This is based on the same formula as the Ice-types above.
• Ice- and Rock-type receives resisted damage following the same rules as above if their defensive stats are super high based on the following BST & base stats: BST 499 & below is 110+ base, BST 500-599 is 120+ base, BST 600+ is 130+.

I checked out all the Ice- and Rock-types who would receive these boons and I think they all make sense in most cases (like, yeah, the stone that Rock-type is or the thickness of the Ice-types ice would probably make it neutral/resistant to those weaknesses).

Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me for the Ice-Type. In every other game, you are encouraged to use ice-elemental stuff in water, either because it can create benefitial effects (like, say, freezing it in Zelda or Kirby) or because it simply does more damage to water enemies (like in certain RPGs, such as EarthBound), but then Pokémon penalizes you for doing that for some reason.

If we're honestly trying to bring how elements work in other games, then Pokémon makes little sense in other matchups as well. Ice and Fire should totally be strong against each other, for instance

Well that's usually using a magical ice spell (or high tech cryo science) on plain ol' water. In Pokemon you're using an attacked infused with Ice energy to attack a creature infused with Water energy, not exactly the same. Since both the Ice and Water are magical in this case, I guess it neutralizes each other and they start working on normal physics where it takes very cold temperatures to freeze water. That said, I do feel Ice should do neutral damage because, well, it is still magical ice. I don't exactly see how the Ice move can be weakened before hitting the Pokemon or what natural biology the Water-type will have that would absorb the impact.

For example, I can totally understand Ice not hurting Fire as much. Fire-types would naturally have an aura of heat around them, or at least in battle, so any Ice-type move used against them will have its structued weakened before hitting the Fire-type (not to mention the Fire-type, in order to survive such extreme conditions, has natural heatproof skin/fur/feathers/etc.).

 

[Ironmage]

For example, I can totally understand Ice not hurting Fire as much. Fire-types would naturally have an aura of heat around them, or at least in battle, so any Ice-type move used against them will have its structued weakened before hitting the Fire-type (not to mention the Fire-type, in order to survive such extreme conditions, has natural heatproof skin/fur/feathers/etc.).

There's also that a generic wood fire (300-1000 Celsius) starts at about the same temperature difference from normal as the physical limit for how cold something can get (absolute zero is -273), and there are a lot of things hotter than that.

 

[StarKirb94]

Ice & Rock:
Not sure if I mentioned my idea before, but if GF insists on making slow & defensive Rock- & Ice-types I think both need a special trait that, at a certain BST, they start becoming neutral and even resist certain Types. Which makes sense if you think about it, we all know different kind of rocks have different levels of strength and the same goes for ice depending on how it freezes & how thick the ice is. So I came up with the following "trait" (such as how Fire-types can't be burned, Ghosts can't be trapped, etc.) for both of them:

• Ice-types receive neutral damage from Fighting & Rock moves if they have high Defense and Fire moves if they have high Special Defense. This is based on the following BST & base stats: BST 499 & below is 80-109 base, BST 500-599 is 95-119 base, BST 600+ is 110-129 base.
• Rock-types receive neutral damage from Fighting & Ground moves if they have high Defense and Grass & Water moves if they have high Special Defense. This is based on the same formula as the Ice-types above.
• Ice- and Rock-type receives resisted damage following the same rules as above if their defensive stats are super high based on the following BST & base stats: BST 499 & below is 110+ base, BST 500-599 is 120+ base, BST 600+ is 130+.

I checked out all the Ice- and Rock-types who would receive these boons and I think they all make sense in most cases (like, yeah, the stone that Rock-type is or the thickness of the Ice-types ice would probably make it neutral/resistant to those weaknesses).

I feel like that's too drastic of a change to make it inherent of a type. Other inherent Type immunities exist because they're generally very easy to understand. For example, most Powder moves are very easy to iddentify, you know what is and isn't a Powder move, so when you see a Grass-Type you immediately know what it's immune to.

But with what you're suggesting, those inherent attributes are determined not simply by the type itself, or by a certain type of move (trapping moves, moves that can burn, etc), but instead by each Pokémon's specific stats, something that is completely impossible to see in-game outside of looking at your own Pokémon's summary screen. It's just a bit too cumbersome for most players to iddentify in practice, and goes against the simplicity of Pokémon's gameplay

 

[Sonikku A]

Never liked Grass types being immune to powder moves
Similarly, never liked electric types being immune to paralysis

 

[Scorpio]

One fix I’d do for Ice is to either give Ice types an increased chance to freeze opponents with the moves that can (akin to how Poison types get 100% accuracy with Toxic) or a Smog clone that inflicts Freeze. For the latter, I think even if it still had Smog’s accuracy and secondary-effect chances it’d still see some use because Freeze is just that good.

...granted some balancing might be in order to not make it broken.

Also give Ice at least one more resistance. I think it was King Feraligatr who made Ice resist Flying, which works for me.

 

[Sonikku A]

How the heck did I forget making ice resist flying?

It's so obvious

 

[Magnus0]

One fix I’d do for Ice is to either give Ice types an increased chance to freeze opponents with the moves that can (akin to how Poison types get 100% accuracy with Toxic) or a Smog clone that inflicts Freeze. For the latter, I think even if it still had Smog’s accuracy and secondary-effect chances it’d still see some use because Freeze is just that good.

...granted some balancing might be in order to not make it broken.

Also give Ice at least one more resistance. I think it was King Feraligatr who made Ice resist Flying, which works for me.

I think they should just turn freeze into a 'burn but for special attack', like frostburn. Freeze right now is a pretty unbalanced status effect because there is almost no counterplay to it. The only thing holding it back from being frustratingly broken is the low chance of actually inflicting the status effect.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

EDIT: Seems like Triple Axel is a bit stronger, but few physically-oriented Ice-types can learn it.

Triple Axel is not reliable with that Triple Kick accuracy.

72.9% chance of all hits landing for 120 BP.

You know what's similar to this?

Focus Blast.

 

[Codraroll]

Triple Axel is not reliable with that Triple Kick accuracy.

72.9% chance of all hits landing for 120 BP.

You know what's similar to this?

Focus Blast.

Luckily, there's an additional 8% chance of it hitting twice for 60 BP, which is still bad, but at least something. I mean, 60 BP would still be the fourth most powerful physical Ice move, excluding signature moves.

The bad thing about Triple Axel is that only two physically-oriented Ice-type families learn it at all: Sneasel and Alolan Sandshrew. Maybe a case could be made for Froslass too (who has the same base stats in both offenses, but a physical movepool as dry and barren as the physical movepool of an Ice-type). The other Ice-types that learn the move would rather prefer a Special move, which is shorthand for "eh, I'll just stick to Ice Beam".

 

[Magnus0]

Luckily, there's an additional 8% chance of it hitting twice for 60 BP, which is still bad, but at least something. I mean, 60 BP would still be the fourth most powerful physical Ice move, excluding signature moves.

I assume the three physical moves with over 60 bp you are referring to are ice fang, ice punch and icicle crash.

But AcTuAlLy, icicle spear has an average bp of 79,2 and avalanche can go up to 120. There's also ice ball that can go well beyond 60 bp. This doesn't really matter, but you know, technically...

 

[Sonikku A]

Unpopular opinion, I actually like Lugia's RSE sprite (at least pose wise)

Cuz Gen 4s wasn't nearly as dynamic, 2 had "belly flop" for Silver, and 5 is just 4s slowly flapping
The color is weird. Cuz it's NOT an immediate error given the shiny, the black is based off of early 1998 art, before the movie and games were released

Come to think of it, RSE had a lot of earlier design oddities

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Unpopular opinion, I actually like Lugia's RSE sprite (at least pose wise)

Cuz Gen 4s wasn't nearly as dynamic, 2 had "belly flop" for Silver, and 5 is just 4s slowly flapping
The color is weird. Cuz it's NOT an immediate error given the shiny, the black is based off of early 1998 art, before the movie and games were released

Come to think of it, RSE had a lot of earlier design oddities

I'm with you on this, it's great. Most of the HGSS sprites are horrible but Lugia's sprite in those games is particularly atrocious.

 

[Bakugames]

Man I just checked and... Lugia really doesn't have that many appealing sprites. I think its the hand winds that always throw it off. I actually really hate the proportion of those wings because they remind me too much of yaoi hands

 

[Sonikku A]

Which brings another point
Not all sprites are good, and they typically shouldn't be the standard for design for a mon. Gligar Gen 4 had a color crisis, BW Darmanitan 2nd form moves its arms when it shouldn't, etc
Also I said this already, I really hate the low material diversity for Mons, and the sprites barely did anything for that. Many steel types don't really look metallic due to low contrast as a result
It was one of the reasons Detective Pikachu's movie interested me, cuz mons were forced to have different textures for the species and env. Bulbasaur's toady leathery skin, Slaking's fur, many bird mon feathers, Charmander's scales, and Lickitungs slimy tongue
It feels limiting going back to canon games/anime and everything just looks like plastic toys

 

[Bakugames]

I think fur and metal should have stylistic textures, but I dont know much about anything else. Maybe slime?

But i feel like scales can make things uncanny due to how small and how many there are, unless you draw big ones, like on silvally's feet. Also the fact charmander has scales deeply upsets me

 

[Coronis]

I always loved Lugia’s backsprite tho.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I'm with you on this, it's great. Most of the HGSS sprites are horrible but Lugia's sprite in those games is particularly atrocious.

Lugia in particular has always had a tough time with poses due to its hand wings. Many of its good stock art poses just treat its hand wings as just wings or doing a more simple hand gesture:

Hands? They are just wings with fringed end feathers

Which brings another point
Not all sprites are good, and they typically shouldn't be the standard for design for a mon. Gligar Gen 4 had a color crisis, BW Darmanitan 2nd form moves its arms when it shouldn't, etc
Also I said this already, I really hate the low material diversity for Mons, and the sprites barely did anything for that. Many steel types don't really look metallic due to low contrast as a result
It was one of the reasons Detective Pikachu's movie interested me, cuz mons were forced to have different textures for the species and env. Bulbasaur's toady leathery skin, Slaking's fur, many bird mon feathers, Charmander's scales, and Lickitungs slimy tongue
It feels limiting going back to canon games/anime and everything just looks like plastic toys

I agree with Lemingue here, while there are certainly some textures that could be given some additional details like metal, rock, slime, etc.. I think the very fine detail textures like scales, fur and feathers may throw off the Pokemon's appearance more than help it, at least for the games. Great they added it in for Detective Pikachu and making the Pokemon look like actual living creatures... but that's because the movie is live action using non-CGI human actors. But the world the Pokemon games take place in is a cartoon, an anime, where humans also look more simple and "plastic-y". So with the humans looking that way it makes sense for the Pokemon to look that way so they look like they belong in the world and interacting with the human characters and environment.
Now other spinoff games like Pokken and Super Smash Bros to a degree have also added some more realistic details... and while fine once you get used to it at the same time for some Pokemon the details did make the Pokemon look a bit off. Notably in Pokken where the human characters are STILL anime humans so adding in the realistic details of scales, fur, and even leathery skin kind of did make the Pokemon look more stranger then they should have.

 

[Bakugames]

(Sorry for using my own art, im on mobile rn and cant really grab images real fast.)

I feel like if it were to give pokemon fur textures, it'd be something stylized, probably even less detailed than what i did here. Drawing big fur strokes instead of disney's "every single hair needs to be modeled and animated or so help me" could keep the cartoony vibes of pokemon while also giving them a bit more of a texture. Not only that, any pokemon who has short fur can probably just stay that way. No need to complicate things more.

My style isnt even the best example since its a bit more realistic than pokemon but its all that i got in this phone other than memes, dont @ me.

Scales need to be in big chunks and very stylized, like on the arms and legs there. Too small and too many will look uncanny.

Skin/rough skin can just stay the way it is, any details can really make things look bad imo. (See pokkens blastoise) Slime can be given some basic sheen but i wouldnt do more than that.

Rocks, metal, gems etc could have different reflections and sheens depending on the material, but I wouldn't add anything else.

Tl;dr just give it some small cartoony textures on some stuff. Most of its is fine as it is other than the metals but even then its not that bad. I just hate the pokken textures tbh

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I agree with Lemingue here, while there are certainly some textures that could be given some additional details like metal, rock, slime, etc.. I think the very fine detail textures like scales, fur and feathers may throw off the Pokemon's appearance more than help it, at least for the games. Great they added it in for Detective Pikachu and making the Pokemon look like actual living creatures... but that's because the movie is live action using non-CGI human actors. But the world the Pokemon games take place in is a cartoon, an anime, where humans also look more simple and "plastic-y". So with the humans looking that way it makes sense for the Pokemon to look that way so they look like they belong in the world and interacting with the human characters and environment.
Now other spinoff games like Pokken and Super Smash Bros to a degree have also added some more realistic details... and while fine once you get used to it at the same time for some Pokemon the details did make the Pokemon look a bit off. Notably in Pokken where the human characters are STILL anime humans so adding in the realistic details of scales, fur, and even leathery skin kind of did make the Pokemon look more stranger then they should have.

I think that a balance could be achieved though, Stadium 2 did have some mons with a metallic sheen and more noticeable fur, so it all depends on adding a little bit of detail on the textures to not break the artstyle too much. Pokkén did go overboard imo. (But it made Pikachu legit fun to play, so it evens out.)

 

[Revenge of Depressed Gay]

Time for my dumb stupid pointless "hot take", ahem, Meganium is one of the biggest downgrades in all of pokemon, yes even more than lickilicky. Now hear me out.

Everyone shits on Lickilicky because it's a bigger fatter version of lickitung with a dumb hair tumor on top of its head. However looking at lickitung its design isn't super great by any degree. It's a weird pink lizard thing that probably feels uncomfortable to touch. I'd say Lickilicky is basically similar in terms of design quality.

These two on the other hand, it's just a straight downgrade. Notice Bayleef, arguably the best designed of any middle evolution starter, has it all. A cool head leaf, weird bud neck things, the nice shade of yellow. It looks sturdy, you can't hurt it even if you try. However if you lay a goddamn finger on bayleef everyone will beat the shit out of you because it's also cute. It somehow has the ability to be cool, cute, and tough all at once. Just an overall great design. Meganium on the other hand looks worse. Sure it has that flower collar, and that's pretty nice, but it goes back to being green! Also it loses the cool leaf for antennae. What doesn't help is that I think they're supposed to resemble stamens, and to those that don't know a stamen is essentially a plant dick. Fucking meganium is out here showing its plant cocks off to everybody, fertilizing the whole damn forest! Oh sure it's taller but that means it's neck is longer. A longer neck means some motherfucking staraptor could fucking dig its talons into meganium and it goes extinct! Anyway Meganium is a downgrade, stop evolving your bayleefs and give them a lump of purple clay.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Time for my dumb stupid pointless "hot take", ahem, Meganium is one of the biggest downgrades in all of pokemon, yes even more than lickilicky. Now hear me out.

Everyone shits on Lickilicky because it's a bigger fatter version of lickitung with a dumb hair tumor on top of its head. However looking at lickitung its design isn't super great by any degree. It's a weird pink lizard thing that probably feels uncomfortable to touch. I'd say Lickilicky is basically similar in terms of design quality.

These two on the other hand, it's just a straight downgrade. Notice Bayleef, arguably the best designed of any middle evolution starter, has it all. A cool head leaf, weird bud neck things, the nice shade of yellow. It looks sturdy, you can't hurt it even if you try. However if you lay a goddamn finger on bayleef everyone will beat the shit out of you because it's also cute. It somehow has the ability to be cool, cute, and tough all at once. Just an overall great design. Meganium on the other hand looks worse. Sure it has that flower collar, and that's pretty nice, but it goes back to being green! Also it loses the cool leaf for antennae. What doesn't help is that I think they're supposed to resemble stamens, and to those that don't know a stamen is essentially a plant dick. Fucking meganium is out here showing its plant cocks off to everybody, fertilizing the whole damn forest! Oh sure it's taller but that means it's neck is longer. A longer neck means some motherfucking staraptor could fucking dig its talons into meganium and it goes extinct! Anyway Meganium is a downgrade, stop evolving your bayleefs and give them a lump of purple clay.

I shit on Lickilicky because its mouth and tongue are far less disturbing. Its' just a line and a U-shape, while with Lickitung its tongue is waving all over the place and you can actually see its mouth. Lickilicky is too simplified. Also its name is dumb.

But yeah, Meganium definitely has Coalossal Syndrome. Its two previous evolutions have a cool unique thing (lead on head) and then Meganium just drops it for some reason.

 

[Magcargo]

Time for my dumb stupid pointless "hot take", ahem, Meganium is one of the biggest downgrades in all of pokemon, yes even more than lickilicky. Now hear me out.

Everyone shits on Lickilicky because it's a bigger fatter version of lickitung with a dumb hair tumor on top of its head. However looking at lickitung its design isn't super great by any degree. It's a weird pink lizard thing that probably feels uncomfortable to touch. I'd say Lickilicky is basically similar in terms of design quality.

I've actually always loved Lickylicky. Its a much nicer shade of pink than its pre-evo and its smaller, less wavy tongue combined with its simpler color scheme and design makes it look much cuter.

 

[Sonikku A]

Time for my dumb stupid pointless "hot take", ahem, Meganium is one of the biggest downgrades in all of pokemon, yes even more than lickilicky. Now hear me out.

Everyone shits on Lickilicky because it's a bigger fatter version of lickitung with a dumb hair tumor on top of its head. However looking at lickitung its design isn't super great by any degree. It's a weird pink lizard thing that probably feels uncomfortable to touch. I'd say Lickilicky is basically similar in terms of design quality.

These two on the other hand, it's just a straight downgrade. Notice Bayleef, arguably the best designed of any middle evolution starter, has it all. A cool head leaf, weird bud neck things, the nice shade of yellow. It looks sturdy, you can't hurt it even if you try. However if you lay a goddamn finger on bayleef everyone will beat the shit out of you because it's also cute. It somehow has the ability to be cool, cute, and tough all at once. Just an overall great design. Meganium on the other hand looks worse. Sure it has that flower collar, and that's pretty nice, but it goes back to being green! Also it loses the cool leaf for antennae. What doesn't help is that I think they're supposed to resemble stamens, and to those that don't know a stamen is essentially a plant dick. Fucking meganium is out here showing its plant cocks off to everybody, fertilizing the whole damn forest! Oh sure it's taller but that means it's neck is longer. A longer neck means some motherfucking staraptor could fucking dig its talons into meganium and it goes extinct! Anyway Meganium is a downgrade, stop evolving your bayleefs and give them a lump of purple clay.

Did you know, Chikorita used to be yellow before Crystal, even in art?
It made going from yellow to green seem like an evo, as opposed to a reversion
Also proportion wise, it isn't longer for neck either, it's just overall bigger

 

[pokemon4eva]

The OG line was supposed to look like this and despite the body change, you can notice more similarities like the antennae and big flower. This beta Bayleef actually fit better imo than what we got. But I guess the Ash x Bayleef shipping would get a little weirder

 

[Pikachu315111]

View attachment 297542
The OG line was supposed to look like this and despite the body change, you can notice more similarities like the antennae and big flower. This beta Bayleef actually fit better imo than what we got.

I'm still convinced that Beta Bayleef is from a scrapped Grass Starter line. It's just there as placeholder since I'd imagine in most cases the Starter's first and final forms are made with the middle evo made last to try and bridge the two.