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Unpopular opinions

actually completing the pokedex is legimitely an extremely poorly designed experience that feels like its never actually been the core focus of the games' development, despite it being a massive plot point in every single game

I think this is a really interesting opinion despite being one I disagree with. I remember as a kid the pokedex was this really cool puzzle with different things to discover with my friends. Which blank entries was I missing? Where was I supposed to go in meteor falls to get Bagon? I levelled my pokemon to 60 and it didn't evolve, what gives? It was really fun figuring all this stuff out, talking to different groups of friends who knew different things. And that's held true for pretty much every gen as far as I can tell.

But now when I'm older I just look stuff up and it seems a lot more tedious, and me and my friends just do the business like transactions making sure we have all the starters, version exclusives, and trade evos. But Sword and Shield actually make this weird for other reasons. They cut out a lot of the work figuring out all the weird stuff when you can find so much in the wild area and catch more fully evolved pokemon without having to learn how they evolve. And Max raids are almost better than catching things traditionally anyway. But Max Raids are also fun, because they cut out the business like transactions and give me something to do with my friends again.

So maybe the culture has changed for how communities approach objectives like this, and some of the adaptation going on is productive, but it doesn't really replace the old hunt to "figure out" the pokedex.
 
The issue is the rule of "use the Ace last", which just doesn't work if the player is willing to Dynamax early and/or set up enough to wreck face. Having hard rules in place that limit AI options but the player doesn't abide by just exacerbates the difference between player skill and AI programming. I've done multiple "no dynamax" runs of Shield, the strategy always comes down to "set up in the face of something beatable and then wreck the giant ace with SE moves". If the game would Dynamax appropriately, that wouldn't be possible, but that's way too hard to get a computer to do.

Oddly, I think the difficulty is probably there for anyone who isn't aware enough of Pokemon to be posting on online forums. For the casual fans who don't really like wasting time with setup moves I could easily see the fights playing out the way GF intended, either:
A smackdown between two titans where the player has to keep their type-advantage mon in reserve until the end, which makes the rest of the fight much harder because you're specifically keeping your Dreadnaw in the back in the fire gym, or
The player Dynamaxes early, sweeps the filler mons, then is back to normal by the time the Ace appears and the player has to use their entire team to take down a giant monster.
Stuff like "send out Orbeetle on 2nd-to-last-mon, take a couple hits, then use screens on the turn before you die" will not occur to the casual playerbase that GF is targeting, and probably makes those fights a lot closer, even if we find them to be pushovers.
Now you told me that, it does make sense and really helps for casual audience, esspcially those not wasting time with set up moves.

It simply doesn’t excuse poor team compositions in general. Bea having three mono Fighting type isn’t doing her any favor, for example.
 
So maybe the culture has changed for how communities approach objectives like this, and some of the adaptation going on is productive, but it doesn't really replace the old hunt to "figure out" the pokedex.
Yes and not.

The fact the internet exists pretty much destroys any "figure the puzzle" or "where could this hide" experience in this kind of games. Unless you purposely avoid these sources for some reason (good luck with it), there's just no "discovery" anymore that you can't just search in 3 seconds on google.

In a sense, it's legitimate that they also moved away from that design. What's the point of designing cleverly complicated puzzles or hiding a secret in the game when everyone will know it *before the game releases* due to datamining anyway? Remember how big of a disappointment for the devs was when I think it was Inkay's evo method (or something similar) discovered via datamining?


(On that note, it's worth reminding that a lot of old school games used to purposely hide extremely complicate secrets because selling guides and walkthrough was common business in gaming industry and some of the old RPG secrets were basically impossible to figure out without a guide in first place. That's not really a thing anymore either)
 
The issue is the rule of "use the Ace last", which just doesn't work if the player is willing to Dynamax early and/or set up enough to wreck face. Having hard rules in place that limit AI options but the player doesn't abide by just exacerbates the difference between player skill and AI programming. I've done multiple "no dynamax" runs of Shield, the strategy always comes down to "set up in the face of something beatable and then wreck the giant ace with SE moves". If the game would Dynamax appropriately, that wouldn't be possible, but that's way too hard to get a computer to do.
Fun fact #1: That's more or less what speedruns do, fling X-speed and/or X-relevant attack on first poke (sometimes on the second), roll over, repeat. Not just for SwSh either, it's pretty much most of the games where acquiring X-items is applicable.

Fun fact #2: If Pokemon games actually had player-tier AI and proper movesets, they'd be either unbeatable or require ludicrous amount of grinding to be beaten. (Also applicable to pretty much any turn based JRPG by the way)'
 
You need the AI to be a little stupid otherwise you make every single battle a mindgame. Its just that pokemon AI is really stupid. A good balance would be to make it medium stupid.

An interesting take would be an AI that knows some cheesy tactics that the player does so it counters them. For example: abusing the ai always clicking super effective and only considering the pokemon in the front vs the part, so you can swap pokemon in and out that have immunities/resistances. We dont want cheating like the rgby AI, but after 1 or 2 turns with it happening, it assigns that the strategy is being used and prioritizes countering it: using a super effective move for the expected switch vs the active pokemon.

At the end of the day, im sure that can be cheesed too, but i still think it'd incentivize proper strategizing. Would probably need to be paired with a good team to feel difficult though
 
In terms of the AI trainers, I think it would be nice to see them have radically different styles.

For example, in Let's GO, all the Gamblers have Pokémon that only know One-Hit KO moves. That's something that really embraces the trainer class's nature, and it comes off really well (and can give you a nasty surprise, by the way, since they are also overleveled).
 
At the end of the day, im sure that can be cheesed too, but i still think it'd incentivize proper strategizing. Would probably need to be paired with a good team to feel difficult though
Sorta.
Facilities have historically had much better AI and movesets, and even a bit of unpredactibility, and yet even facilities shown that you can use some pretty cheap-ish strats that let you easily maintain a 70%+ winrate without even trying like my own "ha ha scarf eruption go brrr" (and not even going over actually clever strats that go for thousands).

It's a turn based game, you can't make it hard.
If you make the AI competent, it becomes impossible or ridicolously grindy due to requiring overleveling and/or actually competitively breeding to beat the game (lol).
If the AI is predictable, it's cheesable in some way or just bruteforceable.

There's no inbetween.

I enjoyed the way Let's Go handled the elite trainers (which had DVd pokemon and some had pretty interesting tricks like a full phisical Kadabra for example) and some trainer classes like the aforementioned gamblers, but at the end of the day, I *still* stomped the shit out of the game because it's Pokemon and if you know type matchups you know 99% of how to win, and if you know how to use items you know the other 1%.
 
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Yes and not.

The fact the internet exists pretty much destroys any "figure the puzzle" or "where could this hide" experience in this kind of games. Unless you purposely avoid these sources for some reason (good luck with it), there's just no "discovery" anymore that you can't just search in 3 seconds on google.

In a sense, it's legitimate that they also moved away from that design. What's the point of designing cleverly complicated puzzles or hiding a secret in the game when everyone will know it *before the game releases* due to datamining anyway? Remember how big of a disappointment for the devs was when I think it was Inkay's evo method (or something similar) discovered via datamining?

Eh, yes the internet ruins any mystery concerning at least what Pokemon are in the dex, but you usually have to do a little extra digging for evo methods. And sure, some people will do that and makes the whole "puzzle" mute, but some players may want to play blind for those surprising moments.

The only issue I have with evolutions is that many non-level & friendship don't really have anybody who gives a hint about it. It can be frustrating raising up a Pokemon knowing it has an evo, doesn't evolve even though it's high level, and then you look it up and find it's a stone evolution or has some other sort of requirement. In the area you catch the Pokemon they should have an NPC that goes "Hey, do you have (Pokemon)? I heard it evolves in a unique way".

Or maybe have an indicator of the Pokedex that hints that a Pokemon evolves a certain way (Level, Friendship, Stone, Item, Location, Unique, Doesn't, etc.) so that the player immediately knows "okay, I can just raise it and it'll evolve" or "oh, it has a unique way of evolving, better look it up on the web maybe there's an NPC who can tell me how".

Or, maybe do what they're doing in Legends: Arceus. When you catch a Pokemon it'll give you tasks to do with it and, for Pokemon that evolve a unique way, that's where it'll give the hint (and if you need more help you could call the Professor or some evo expert).

It's a turn based game, you can't make it hard.
If you make the AI competent, it becomes impossible or ridicolously grindy due to requiring overleveling and/or actually competitively breeding to beat the game (lol).
If the AI is predictable, it's cheesable in some way or just bruteforceable.

You're right that, for the Pokemon main game, it's not going to be difficult because little kids got to be able to beat it (plus it's really easy to design bosses after the Types).

However, what I do ask is to make it at least interesting, like they did in BDSP. One of my favorite changes was with Saturn's team. Before in DPPt it was just a usual battle, his Pokemon mostly having attacking moves with some coverage and maybe a helpful status move. But in BDSP, even though he's still using a Kadabra, Bronzor, and Toxicroak they did something I wouldn't think of: They gave him a rain team. Kadabra sets up rain (it's even holding a Damp Rock). Now his Kadabra doesn't benefit from it, but his Bronzor does as it can now have Levitate while the rain reduced the damage of Fire attacks, and notably his Toxicroak can because it has Dry Skin so now is healing every turn! Is it a hard battle? No. But it's at least an interesting one that shows off a fun strategy that, maybe while what Saturn did didn't work, may inspire the player to try something out especially if they maybe want to use a Toxicroak.
 
Or maybe have an indicator of the Pokedex that hints that a Pokemon evolves a certain way (Level, Friendship, Stone, Item, Location, Unique, Doesn't, etc.) so that the player immediately knows "okay, I can just raise it and it'll evolve" or "oh, it has a unique way of evolving, better look it up on the web maybe there's an NPC who can tell me how".
Let me agree with you on a wider scale (not exactly unpopular in any way):
Pokemon **REALLY** needs to be more descriptive of their mechanics. Stuff like IV/EV gains and evolutionary methods are indeed barely ever explained and it almost feels like they actually just went "eh they will just look it on the internet", which is *not* the right answer by any means. There should definitely be at least some indications somewhere.

I liked the way for example they did this in SMT: Nocturne. Most of the game's hidden Magatamas and the depths of the Kalpa dungeon have particularly complicated processes to unlock, however, TECNICALLY the game does actually give you directions on what to do. There's usually NPCs here and there that give you hints on what the "next step" is, for example by having them say "suddently there's been screams in that side of the abandoned hospital" to imply that now there's a Fiend there, or that "I heard that if you bring <item description> to that place, a wish will be granted" to hint that if you were to bring a certain item to a certain shrine, you'd be given an audience with the NPC that gives one of the secret Magatamas.

Now, these NPCs were purposely pretty hidden around, often not exactly in the beaten path, or would be in areas you havent visited for ages (see: they really wanted to sell you these guides), but they WERE there. Heck the game has demons literally explaining you the combat mechanics "in lore" here and there in the first dozen areas, including status and buff effects.

I don't think it'd be bad to have some more clarity on how certain mechanics work directly in game.

I also mentioned LGPE trainers for a similar reason to what you said here:
However, what I do ask is to make it at least interesting, like they did in BDSP. One of my favorite changes was with Saturn's team. Before in DPPt it was just a usual battle, his Pokemon mostly having attacking moves with some coverage and maybe a helpful status move. But in BDSP, even though he's still using a Kadabra, Bronzor, and Toxicroak they did something I wouldn't think of: They gave him a rain team. Kadabra sets up rain (it's even holding a Damp Rock). Now his Kadabra doesn't benefit from it, but his Bronzor does as it can now have Levitate while the rain reduced the damage of Fire attacks, and notably his Toxicroak can because it has Dry Skin so now is healing every turn! Is it a hard battle? No. But it's at least an interesting one that shows off a fun strategy that, maybe while what Saturn did didn't work, may inspire the player to try something out especially if they maybe want to use a Toxicroak.
I'm a big fan of when they actually give some cohesion to the team comps. I REALLY liked Raihan's team in SwSh for example, due to it showing off weather mechanics.
From what I remind, Kukui's team in SM also had some interesting concept with the lead setting Spikes and then having a phazer coming after it... well except the part where you'd prolly oneshot all of his pokes and never see this happen anyway.

I don't think there's any way to make the games hard without making them stupid, buuut I definitely agree that they should take some pages off whoever designed BDSP and LGPE teams, because these were pretty good upgrades over the usual "pick 3-5 poke that share a type and call it a day".
 
It's a turn based game, you can't make it hard.
If you make the AI competent, it becomes impossible or ridicolously grindy due to requiring overleveling and/or actually competitively breeding to beat the game (lol).
If the AI is predictable, it's cheesable in some way or just bruteforceable.

There's no inbetween.

I don't mean to start an argument or anything,, but turn-based games are absolutely capable of being difficult, even something like Pokémon. They just aren't games that are typically designed to be difficult. You hardly ever see RPGs with actually dangerous mechanics like no revival during battles, attacks that reduce maximum HP for the rest of the fight, or even the more basic damage rush phase before the boss unleashes a party wiping move. Resources typically aren't so limited that every move counts,, and bosses typically don't have 10+ set move patterns where you have to keep track of where they're at on the pattern or suffer a critical setback. Most RPGs are usually pretty basic in design and very generous about failure, with excessive level grinding almost always on the table as a means for players to lower the difficulty even more. In-battle items for Pokémon can be seen as another mechanic that's designed to ease difficulty in battles. It's certainly possible to design a Pokémon game where you want to make use of Reflect/Light Screen, Intimidate, pivoting attacks, stat boosting moves, weather, even stuff like Magnet Pull, Stealth Rock, and Trick Room. This Pokemon-style Touhou RPG, Gensou Puppet Dance Performance, requires all of these strategies for the low-turn low-RNG challenge run I started on it (haven't completed it yet though). The issue with Pokémon games is that the AI is typically given poor teams, and that makes everything else that could be meaningfully done with them squandered. The biggest example is probably the idea of type specialists, and making almost every major trainer one. Their teams are virtually never designed with anything in mind beyond what would be thematically appropriate or warranted representation in the game. Almost the whole game for every installment, the only role such trainers could provide is a basic type chart check. The trainers like Cynthia that get treated like they're a big challenge do avoid this rut, but it's not like she's packing a whole team sporting offenses exceeding base 120 with 95+ STAB options.

Which is another issue Pokémon has to face with difficulty. Most Pokémon are just plain not designed to be good, only thematic. Pokémon typically aren't given tools or stats for roles. As a result, most opponents are stuck with purposeless tools to assemble a senseless team with, where everything has a shared type and weakness. Even when they do have a theme that strays from type matching, like Raihan, they have no purpose with that theme, they teach nothing. There are no trainers that specialize in speedy sweepers to encourage Trick Room. There are no opponents packing power enough to warrant screens. There are no opponents that read switches flawlessly, necessitating pivot moves to get around SE hits on switches. And even if there were, there's such a lack of good options for these players would be hard pressed to be able to use them. If we had like say, gen I distribution on all kinds of utility moves so a random team likely had stuff that could use screens or Trick Room, if abilities were designed more to be good than flavor accompanying a design, there'd be room enough for customizability on teams for both the player and opponent that a reasonable challenge could be put up on the AI side without forcing players to grind excessively or choose from a highly limited range of counters that basically auto win the fight.

Now, Pokémon games will never do that. But the system is not fundamentally a dichotomy of too easy or too hard, and turn-based RPGs are absolutely capable of being fairly difficult games of resource management and long-term strategizing. But probably over 90% of them are fairly easy, partly because no game company that produces those games even grasps how to make a difficult RPG. Atlus' SMT series is a great example of how even most consumers don't know what a difficult RPG is like. Demi-Fiend gets hailed as the most difficult RPG boss ever made but is actually fairly simple by design, it's just a monotonous 50+ minute fight with the only thing special about it being a somewhat obtuse OHKO gimmick. No AI turn patterns you need to memorize in order to counter specific moves, no counters for 50%+ of the party's HP that require preparation to survive after each attack, no maximum HP reducing attacks that put the battle on an urgent time limit, nothing but a basic numbers game of keeping health up each turn. Even that could be more complicated by having a limited healing system, like no restorative items and limited methods to restore MP, but that's not applicable either. And if a character gets KO'd you can just revive them. Probably couldn't find 10 turn-based RPGs that actually know how to be hard and pull it off, and that's strictly on the devs, not the game concept.
 
This Pokemon-style Touhou RPG, Gensou Puppet Dance Performance, requires all of these strategies for the low-turn low-RNG challenge run I started on it (haven't completed it yet though).
I have a friend who's a huge Touhou addict and also played through this on his stream.

You aren't wrong in the fact that he needed to use some clever strats and think through battles for a while.
...until he realized he could just powergrind through several of the otherwise "brain checks", which is sadly the limitation of turn based games.
Atlus' SMT series is a great example of how even most consumers don't know what a difficult RPG is like.
I'm also glad though that you are with me on this.
Lot of people praise SMT games for their "difficulty"... until you realize you can still bruteforce them anyway, and heck, SMTV current speedrun degenerated to "ha ha hassu tobi go brrr" fairly quickly after initially everyone thinking the run would have been insanely though.


I think SMT games show very well the huge limitation of turn based games: even when you make them challenging, they only are if you don't know how to abuse a given game's system. After that, they become 90% knowing what's coming, 10% actually clicking the buttons.
My usual (extremely unpopular in that community) opinion for SMT games is "They aren't hard, they're just grindy or poorly balanced" (poorly balanced for example is the certain final boss of Nocturne who can arbitrarly 90% hp into unmissable autoattack your MC with you literally unable to do anything about it other than have Endure once)

I'll stay my opinion on turn based games: the lack of "time based stress" to force decision making and reactions that's in real time games remove pretty much every difficulty that isn't linked to going in a fight blind. Pokemon is no exception to it: you can make extremely hard boss fights with challenging teams... but after you've seen them, you will just go in with the pokemon with advantage and win.
 
I was going to edit this in but I'll make it as separate post instead since it's turned just as my own opinion instead.

I think a lot of this comes from the different opinions on what "HARD" or "CHALLENGING" means.

Lot of people consider a game "hard" if you just die a lot in it. Which... isn't really what I think it should mean.
A game is hard/challenging if it requires a lot of actual player skill: complicate mechanics, difficult puzzles to solve, big time constraints forcing you to take decisions all the time, very little room for error, are all things that make a game hard.

If a game's "difficulty" comes from just requiring ridicolous time investment to grind or just having very high RNG factors that kill you without any counterplay... that's not "hard" for me. That's just tedious / frustrating.

I made the example of Nocturne in the previous post: lot of people consider the game hard due to how often you die even if you know what you're doing. However, if you know what you're doing, your only deaths in that game will either be from getting ambushed by a random encounter and oneshot before you can take a turn (most notably on hard difficulty where you can't escape battles without Trafuri), or a boss deciding "oh so you set up for the kill, what if i DekundaDekaja and kill you next turn instead?": it's gameplay elements that have absolutely no way to be avoided and you just have to sack it up and go back to last save point.

A similar "bad" example is games that (like certain Pokemon hacks) you basically get forced to grind a ton just in order to be on level with enemies: how is that exactly hard? Seems just wasting time by forcing you to do tedious easy tasks (grinding) in order to actually play the game.


"Good" difficulty for me comes from games that force me to take decision all the time, and give me significant control over what will kill me. Surprisingly, even tho I suck at them, I'm a *HUGE* fan of Roguelikes, and I play a lot of turn based ones too. I played a crapton of Darkest Dungeon for example, a game that a lot of people blame for the RNG factor, but it's a type of game where you have very high control on what's happening, and while you CAN die to atrociously bad luck... usually if that happens it's because you put yourself in a situation where you shouldn't have been in first place. You took a fight with your party on low hp. You greeded on low torch for treasures and got ambushed. You put +stress gain on your party to get that sweet +dmg bonus and your party decided it was a good idea to hit each other in middle of a boss fight.
It's a turn based game, yet you have to take decisions constantly, you're ALSO on a time constraint AND death limitation constraint if you're on max difficulty so you can't just fling yourself at enemies either.


To make this back to Pokemon... I don't think what the series really need if it wanted to be difficult is "harder bosses" or "better AI" necessarly.

What it would need is some sort of constraint: something that doesn't allow you to freely faceplant into a fight to see what they have then come back and stomp it. Without some sort of constraint, the games can't be made hard, just grindy or tedious.
 
A simple solution would be a harder mode option that blocks grinding by not allowing you to be stronger than the ace, so you have to engage with the fight as it was designed to be
I feel like that could backfire by encouraging people to grind until they can't anymore, as opposed to deciding to just approach the challenge at the level they're at currently and potentially fighting an uphill battle against a higher level opponent (and then feeling like a badass when they come out on top).

I know for me personally, I'm inclined to take extra time grinding to be fully prepared for a boss fight, in pretty much any game. Since "fully prepared" in Pokemon is well beyond endgame level, it might as well not exist, so that pressure isn't there.
 
A simple solution would be a harder mode option that blocks grinding by not allowing you to be stronger than the ace, so you have to engage with the fight as it was designed to be
I don't think that quite solves much. You still run into the issue that after you fought the boss once, you know what the team is, so you just come back with whatever counters it.

It definitely removes the option to powergrind through, but doesn't remove the fact that the game remains 99% preparation 1% click supereffective move.


However, if the hard mode had something more punishing in place, for example losing experience if a pokemon gets KOd, "reverse obedience" where pokemon would disobey you if they're unhappy, things that prevent you from "faceplant until you win" shenenigans.
Honestly even something as simple as preventing you from saving once inside a gym and if you die you have to reload would be a moderate increase to the challenge, as you will have to actually re-beat everything in 1 go, and you aren't just getting stronger with every defeat (which would happen normally as even tho you lose money you keep experience and level gains).

As I said, the "main" problem of the games is that you don't have any real punishment for losing. You just wasted uuuh 5 minutes, and in fact GAINED experience and levels.
You aren't going to have any sort of challenge in a game where you have no penalty for losing, nor anything compelling you to "go fast".
 
To make this back to Pokemon... I don't think what the series really need if it wanted to be difficult is "harder bosses" or "better AI" necessarly.

What it would need is some sort of constraint: something that doesn't allow you to freely faceplant into a fight to see what they have then come back and stomp it. Without some sort of constraint, the games can't be made hard, just grindy or tedious.
My personal stance is that Pokémon doesn't need to be hard, per se. I don't think it's a problem that the games lack options for really hard difficulties that put veteran players to the test. But I think there still is a problem with difficulty, that they are way too easy, to the point of becoming a real issue.

We have had many discussions of how difficult it would be to make Pokémon actually hard. You've raised many good points on how most difficulty can be overcome with grinding, and/or be ruined by RNG ("ruined" both ways - either becoming too easy or too hard without the player's decisions having any influence). Within the current constraints of Pokémon, making the game difficult and fair is fairly difficult.

But consider the inverse: How could the games be made easier? That is not a particularly hard question to answer. Lower the levels of opponents, have bosses use fewer Pokémon, give them fewer coverage moves, don't let them hold items, build their teams to share really obvious weaknesses, give the player's Pokémon more XP, maybe give the player bonuses that circumvent the rules ... hey, wait a second ...

... and that's the point where it dawns on people that most of these difficulty-lowering measures have actually been implemented in many Pokémon games, with no options to play without them. That's what I think is the actual problem. That the difficulty of the game is set very very low, even within the constraints of their mechanics. It appears to be purposely designed not to put up a fight, which makes your victories feel a lot less meaningful.

And that, I think is a distinction we need to make in the "the games are too easy" debate. The games are too easy, but it doesn't mean they should incorporate some sort of "ultra hard mode" - that'd be too far and too pointless. Rather, it means that the games don't give the impression of honest resistance. There isn't really need for an AI that plays like a human would. That would be way overkill and cater to too few. What frustrates the players is rather that the in-game opponents feel too gimped for your victory to matter. The game is pitting you against trainers using too few, too low-level, and too badly-trained Pokémon with deliberately horrible movesets, no Item strategy, no team building, and none of the bonuses you get as a player. They appear to be set up to be automatically waltzed over with no effort. It's like a racing game where you ride a Ferrari and the opponent rides a VW Beetle, or like a boxing match against a five-year-old. You will probably win, but it doesn't feel like an achievement because you were granted a massive advantage.

Granted, this is a sort of "veterans foremost" problem. A casual first-time player wouldn't notice if a boss suddenly brings out a Special moveset on a Physical-oriented Pokémon, or that their sweeper doesn't have coverage moves, or that the Item slots are barely used at all. They would just be happy to win against the scary-looking dude. Figuratively, cruising along in their Ferrari laughing at all the VW Beetles disappearing in their rearview mirror. It takes some familiarity and attention to recognize the difficulty-lowering measures. But once you notice them, they become sort of jarring. Because you realize how much more the games could have done to give you some resistance, but is instead set up to fall at your slightest touch like bowling pins.

As an example, look to how BDSP was praised for its difficult end-game bosses. Fans looked at the datamined information and rejoiced. Finally a challenge! But how? The battles didn't feature a massively improved AI, or brutally overleveled Pokémon, or restrictions placed on the player. Everything was played exactly by the book, the same rules that had existed for years. The designers just used all the tools available, including a few competently put-together movesets and held items. You could even argue that these bosses aren't that difficult for a veteran player. You could beat them in a few attempts. But that's not the important part. These trainers feel like they're trying, and that makes them more rewarding to beat. Just contrast XY Lysandre's Pyroar @No item Hyper Voice/Dark Pulse/Fire Blast with BDSP Cynthia's Roserade @ Expert Belt Dazzling Gleam/Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb/Energy Ball. One is a quite mediocre mid-game 'mon with three moves and no held item, the other is a heavy-hitter with wide coverage and an item to put even more pain into its moves. Overcoming the former is routine, overcoming the latter feels like a true victory. Or look to BW2's Challenge Mode for more of the same. It's not necessarily more difficult, but it appears to try, and that makes all the difference. It doesn't treat you as a toddler who needs to face a softened challenge, but attempts to face you on even footing. That makes it a lot sweeter to win.

TL;DR - the games don't need their difficulty raised to 11. But they have a very annoying tendency to be stuck on 2, and it would be nice to have the option to go to 5 or 6 or so.
 
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I think your points are valid, and while I do agree that it would be nice to have the option to have harder difficulties or well, bosses that feel like they're at least trying, there's one notable thing I usually contrast to:

Granted, this is a sort of "veterans foremost" problem. A casual first-time player wouldn't notice if a boss suddenly brings out a Special moveset on a Physical-oriented Pokémon, or that their sweeper doesn't have coverage moves, or that the Item slots are barely used at all. They would just be happy to win against the scary-looking dude. Figuratively, cruising along in their Ferrari laughing at all the VW Beetles disappearing in their rearview mirror. It takes some familiarity and attention to recognize the difficulty-lowering measures. But once you notice them, they become sort of jarring. Because you realize how much more the games could have done to give you some resistance, but is instead set up to fall at your slightest touch like bowling pins.

that is... how many of the non-veterans actually do this? We know that usually kids and even adults who don't exactly play competitive pokemon barely touch the games after finishing the story.

It became very jarring to me lately as I've been playing on Pixelmon with some friends from different parts of the world. All of them are adults, most of them are speedrunners (some are actually pretty good at the games they run, too), a couple are even programmers like me.
All of them have played most Pokemon games to date, a couple even do shiny hunting on their stream on regular basis.
Most of them have literally no clue how Pokemon works. They don't know how to EV train. They can't produce competent movesets. We've had multiple minitournaments on SwSh before this where I literally curbstomped everyone because I had a remotely competent team while they had just a bunch of pokes they "thought" would work with bad movesets and questionable itemization choice. They wouldn't notice that having 3 phisical attacks on their Nasty Plot Raichu wouldn't exactly work. They've never really done anything in the games, SwSh included, other than finishing the story, finishing the pokedex and shiny hunting, despite having hundreds of hours in multiple games.

At this point I really do wonder... are we really sure that veterans aren't such a huge minority, that at this point nuances like competent trainer movesets wouldn't even be noticed in first place by the playerbase? Are we really sure that, given the lack of time GF has, that design time isn't, actually, really better put in working on features that people use and notice, like the aforementioned Arnie?
 
At this point I really do wonder... are we really sure that veterans aren't such a huge minority, that at this point nuances like competent trainer movesets wouldn't even be noticed in first place by the playerbase?
I have to imagine that demonstrating these higher-level strategies through trainer battles encourages some people to try them out. Like, in the alternate universe where Cheren doesn't use Work Up in B2W2, there are probably even fewer players who realize how strong boosting moves are.
 
This is kind of the reason I'd prefer the Gym Leaders and Elite Four weren't casted into a type, but on a battle style.

If you are new to Pokémon and would like to know about battles because you want to play online... the main story isn't going to give you a single good idea (outside of Raihan in SwSh). The Gym Leader/Elite Four teams are "3 to 5 Pokémon that all have the same type"... and that's it.

Even Champions like Cynthia often fall into "5 or 6 strong Pokémon with no cohesion between them". Kukui (even if not a Champion) kind of has an strategy on his team but it's the only exception.

They should showcase an strategy, which would indirectly raise difficulty AND teach new players of team styles they could make. Rather than the Water-type leader, give me the rain leader. Rather than the Psychic-type leader, give me the Trick Room leader. Rather than the Poison-type leader, give me the status leader (with things like Hex and Venoshock in the mix). Rather than the Rock-, Ground- or Steel-type leader, give me the Sandstorm leader. Rather than the Flying-type leader, give me the Tailwind leader. And so on.

They are supposed to be expert trainers that work as checkpoints for trainers, but more often than not they don't pose any greater challenge than the random trainers in routes.

Raihan is a good example. He's tricky to deal with, his trainers are tricky to deal with as there is some sort of cohesion within their teams going on.
 
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I think the kanto "starter you pick is the difficulty level" idea is bullshit. If the game wanted to intentionally do it this way, it'd have to explicitly tell you it's that way. Realistically, this only affects the first two gyms only a tiny bit, because Misty has some available Pokemon you can use to deal with her if you chose Charmander (a few Electric, Grass and Bug pokemon, a few users of status, and some generally strong physical attackers like Raticate, Nidos, hell even Gyarados with enough determination). Brock is only really hard if Charmander is underleveled or not using items, otherwise Charmander or Charmeleon should have an okay time with him, and Butterfree is still an option if you must have a neutral attack. Hell, in FRLG, that isn't even necessary because Charmander learns Metal Claw and Mankey is more freely available! It's just a dumb notion
 
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