What's the justification for Gliscor moving to A+?
Dont have much to add other than blacephalon cannot actually use hpfighting because it needs to have at least 3 perfect ivs so the calcs he presented is valid.Alright so as I said before, Salazzle is a mon where i can barely see some viability in, in regards to the subtoxic set due to being able to toxic anything and its speed tier, but I have so many disagreements with this above post, I feel the need to quickly break it down and point out the flaws in that argument.
You talk about Salazzle and how it has a higher speed tier then Blace, but you also disregard the fact that Blace can run both a Speed Beast Boost set and Choice Scarf with both being viable. Specs Salazzle can play a hit and run game against Mega Latias yes but it is nowhere near that simple. Poison is a trash offensive typing, resisted by types such as poison, steel, ground and ghost and it is going to be rare to find a team lacking those types when blocking voltturn, absorbing tspikes, and the raw power provided by Megas such as Mawile and Sableye are great for teams. Compare that with Ghost where only dark can resist it with normal being immune. Now the only dark types that want to switch in are Ttar and the rare alomuk, and the only relevant normal is Chansey which can't touch it which makes ghost a much more spammable stab. Also, Salazzle is weak to rocks so it can't even play a hit and run game against Mega Latias for long.
In regards to checking SG Magearna, Choice Scarf Blace does outspeed, and Fireblast OHKOs from full and CM Blace doesn't even die to Twinkle Tackle after rocks.
252 SpA Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 356-420 (118.2 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 232 HP / 0 SpD Blacephalon: 194-228 (63.6 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Also your part about Kommo-o is irrelevant and laughable. Not to be rude but, I don't think people care that Kommo-o isn't gonna be 2HKO'd a grand 2% of the time, because the chances of 2% happening and it not being chipped by literally anything beforehand such as SR is extremely small. Not to mention Kommo-o does not want to be tricked by Blace when it goes for a move. (More on Trick Later)
You then claim that Blace can't 2HKO Mega TTar wheras Salazzle can, but then you compare HP ground to HP fighting? Like yes, a move that is x4 effective does a lot more damage then a move that is x2 effective, thats obvious. If Blace really wanted to 2HKO Mega TTar, then it could run HP fighting as well which does more than Salazzle due to having a much higher Special Attack. Blace simply chooses to hit other target with Ground and Grass such as Heatran and Swampert instead of Ttar, it doesn't mean it can't run HP fighting if the team needs it.
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Fighting vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 252-300 (65.7 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Next up is the long list of calcs that in my honest opinion, did not need to be there, or at least that amount of them. Pokemon such as Zapdos really didn't need to be in there, since its physically defensive and people won't switch in or leave in Zapdos on a Salazzle. You make a false claim that anything that isn't OHKO'd is poisoned which considering your moveset of NP + Both stabs and HP fighting, means only Sludge Wave can poison and that is a low 10% chance, so more often then not, nothing is going to be poisoned. Running Toxic over HP means you become a free switchin for dangerous threats like Tran. Like, yes its a large list, but at +2, thats not saying much, im sure people can make much longer ones of +2 Kartana, but are actually relevant as well.
Blace is much better at wallbreaking due to not only having a higher special attack and more spammable stab, (and not being resisted by Pex) but it also scares walls with trick. Walls don't like being choice locked, because it makes life much harder to do their job properly. For example a choice locked Toxapex will have a much harder time dealing with setup mons. Blace can also fish for drops on walls because while 20% is still low (Double the chance of your sludge wave poison chance btw), if you do get the drop then that wall can't deal with Blace anymore and this isn't even mentioning Blace's ability to snowball.
So Blace can wallbreak by crippling walls with trick, drops with shadow ball, spammable stabs to hit almost all the meta for at least neutral damage and can snowball with beast boost to break through other walls more easily or even end up sweeping. In regardless to wasting a z move on Pokemon with lower bulk, the bulk is irrelevant if the threat is high enough. For example if Torn-T missing hurricane means you get swept by Kartana, then that 59/31 special bulk does not matter, people would waste their Z move on it.
I didn't want my reply to be this long, but I did want to cover everything since I basically disagreed with your entire post. Also, if this wasn't obvious enough, please don't compare Salazzle to Blace in terms of offensive sets, Blace is clearly the better pokemon and when you compare them together, there is not enough reason to use Salazzle over Blace, at least to the point where it should be ranked.
How exactly does this check Heatran? It is 2HKOed by timid sets, which also outspeed it. It also fails to check cm Magearna (I'm assuming this is the set you want to beat, as you use max special attack in calcs, and only cm sets use max special attack). It can OHKO after a boost, especially with fairium z.Toxicroak: UR --> C- or C
Toxicroak has the potential to be a niche anti-meta pick due to its ability to check many of the current top threats. Water types like Ash-Greninja, Protean Greninja w/o Extrasensory, Toxapex, Suicune, and Tapu Fini are completely walled by it, and grass types like Serperior and Ferrothorn fear its STAB moves. Previously mentioned sets consisted of Swords Dance + Life Orb in an attempt to classify Toxicroak as a set-up sweeper; I believe this is suboptimal, however, as Toxicroak lacks both the bulk and the speed to justify having a sweeping set within the OU metagame. The sweeper set's reliance on a weak non-STAB Sucker Punch cuts down on coverage options as well.
Equipped with an Assault Vest, Toxicroak trades being able to hit hard for the ability to 1v1 and beat threats it couldn't before, such as Magearna, Heatran, and Tapu Koko, soaking up their attacks and OHKO'ing or 2HKO'ing in return. Despite its frail physical defense, Toxicroak can take anything +1 TTar throws out (barring EQ) and threaten the OHKO in return. It can also revenge kill M-Mawile, surviving a +2 sucker punch and deal heavy damage with an Earthquake of its own. In this way, Toxicroak can be used as a one-time removal of a threat on the opposing team.
Toxicroak @ Assault Vest
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 60 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
Gunk Shot is great for spreading poison with a 30% chance, and deals decent damage to unresisted targets. It is crucial for ensuring the prompt removal of fairy types like Clefable, All Tapus (only if Lele is locked into Moonblast though), Azumarill, etc. as well as targeting Serperior.
Drain Punch is semi-reliable recovery and a secondary STAB move. It can OHKO almost all variants of TTar and Greninja, and nets a 2HKO on Ferrothorn and Chansey with minimal chip.
Knock Off is for utility in item removal and scouting. Pairs well with Toxicroak's tendency to force switches on the things that it walls.
Earthquake is an absolutely necessary coverage move used to OHKO Heatran and Magnezone, and 2HKO Toxapex and Magearna.
Toxicroak can come in on many threats and either outright kill them or support its team through Knock Off and Gunk Shot poisons. EVs aim to maximize attack and speed creep modest offensive Heatran, with the remainder dumped into SpDef.
Literally any water move vs. Dry Skin Toxicroak: -- gimme 25% HP for free
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Toxicroak: 97-114 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- 84.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Toxicroak: 109-130 (35.5 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
12 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Toxicroak: 87-103 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Toxicroak: 186-220 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Dry Skin Toxicroak: 196-232 (63.8 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage
252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Toxicroak: 190-224 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dry Skin Toxicroak: 260-306 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
+2 200 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Toxicroak: 122-144 (39.7 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Toxicroak in Electric Terrain: 156-184 (50.8 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 223-264 (61.6 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini: 326-386 (95 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 312-368 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 182-216 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 336-396 (87.7 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Toxicroak Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 146-172 (48 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Toxicroak Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 186-220 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Toxicroak Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 396-468 (102.5 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Toxicroak Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 172-204 (65.1 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-975626569 (Against HO? Maybe?)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-975628653 (Toxicroak wins against stall)
I would like to reiterate that the best thing about AV Toxicroak is how it completely invalidates Ash-Greninja. Toxicroak can switch into it multiple times per game and force the switch every time, exerting alpha frog dominance. With Protean it's a bit more tricky, but predicting either Ice Beam, HP Fire, or Gunk Shot and picking either Drain Punch or EQ grants you the OHKO. Nothing can be done about Z-Dig or Extrasensory variants though.
Toxicroak has enough glaring weaknesses that prevent it from dominating the OU tier, like being dead weight against the omnipresent Lando-T and Psyspam teams. It is unable to do much to defensive mons that are not hit super-effectively by its coverage moves, and any fast physical attacker will force it out. What it can do, however, is check a niche variety of threats like Magearna, Heatran, Tyranitar, Koko, Toxapex, Serperior, Chansey, and Greninja, which is why I nominate it for the C- tier.
You could just make it jolly if you wanted to ensure that Heatran loses every time, but without Adamant it loses so much of its already limited damage I believe it isn't worth it. It's a shaky check to Heatran anyways, I just wanted to mention that it has the capability to outspeed and OHKO the most common variants. If given a free switch in it forces out Heatran which allows for aggressive double switches. I would not consider it to be a viable check to CM Magearna nor Fairium Z Magearna. I guess CM Magearna gets hit by EQ once as it boosts up, and again before it can attack, but Toxicroak can't do anything if it has already boosted or if it had boosted on the switch. If the Magearna lacks Fleur Cannon though, Toxicroak wins basically every time since even +2 Flash Cannon from CM Mag only does 94% maximum. BoltBeam Mag loses, AV Mag loses, Heart Swap Pain Split loses, etc.How exactly does this check Heatran? It is 2HKOed by timid sets, which also outspeed it. It also fails to check cm Magearna (I'm assuming this is the set you want to beat, as you use max special attack in calcs, and only cm sets use max special attack). It can OHKO after a boost, especially with fairium z.
Additionally, if you're going to nominate Toxicroak, you should mention rain. Fitting Toxicroak on a rain team gives it passive recovery and also allows it check Heatran.
I wouldn't call it a niche anti-meta pick, since it doesn't really beat any top tiers aside from ash gren and toxapex. I will be going over how it fails at doing this role, aswell as why the replays don't really mean much.Toxicroak has the potential to be a niche anti-meta pick due to its ability to check many of the current top threats. Water types like Ash-Greninja, Protean Greninja w/o Extrasensory, Toxapex, Suicune, and Tapu Fini are completely walled by it, and grass types like Serperior and Ferrothorn fear its STAB moves. Previously mentioned sets consisted of Swords Dance + Life Orb in an attempt to classify Toxicroak as a set-up sweeper; I believe this is suboptimal, however, as Toxicroak lacks both the bulk and the speed to justify having a sweeping set within the OU metagame. The sweeper set's reliance on a weak non-STAB Sucker Punch cuts down on coverage options as well.
On rain, toxicroak doesn't really do much over any of the other mons, since standard rain is always Pelipper, Mega pert, Torn-T and Ferrothorn, fitting in toxicrak on the last two team slots can be quite hard since it's competition is Ash gren, Manaphy, Azumarill, Tapu Koko, Hawlucha and Kingdra, sure some of these mons have a distinct niche they have to follow in order to be good on rain but they do it well enough to be better than anything toxicroak can do. Against rain however, it's sort of interesting, it does poorly against every rain mon aside from Greninja and Kingdra, I could see it having potential as a greninja stopper, but it is heavily outclassed by the likes of toxapex and gastrodon at that role simply because both have reliable recovery while not really needing to be offensive since you can just pivot around and scald/toxic chip everything down.Toxicroak on rain is good for the recovery, but it isn't necessary if you only want to check one or two specific things on the other team, like Ash-Greninja, Serperior, or Toxapex for example. Toxicroak can synergize well with rain teams, but all I had in mind for it was to be a creative solution for teams weak to Ash-Greninja, distinguishing itself in being able to actually attack unlike Mantine and Toxapex.
Toxicroak is nowhere close to the "counter" to Ash-Greninja that you are making it out to be. If ash-gren is transformed, you can switch in ONCE. You have no real recovery to be a reliable counter; the opponent isn't going to go to Excadrill to take a drain punch like you showed in your replay. When it's not transformed, you can't risk coming in on protean blindly.Toxicroak: UR --> C- or C
I would like to reiterate that the best thing about AV Toxicroak is how it completely invalidates Ash-Greninja. Toxicroak can switch into it multiple times per game and force the switch every time, exerting alpha frog dominance.
Doesn't stop sweeper mag and gets Vswitched on by fat sets. Heatran outspeeds and 2HKOs? Ttar -- barely. Koko is going to tbolt as you come in and then pivot out. You wont ever touch it. Toxapex yes. Serperior scarf only. Chansey sure.What it can do, however, is check a niche variety of threats like Magearna, Heatran, Tyranitar, Koko, Toxapex, Serperior, Chansey
Why would Ash-Greninja be transformed when you have Toxicroak up? And with Toxicroak being such an obvious switch-in, you can abuse the fact that they'll lock themselves into Spikes instead of attacking, forcing mindgames.Toxicroak is nowhere close to the "counter" to Ash-Greninja that you are making it out to be. If ash-gren is transformed, you can switch in ONCE. You have no real recovery to be a reliable counter; the opponent isn't going to go to Excadrill to take a drain punch like you showed in your replay. When it's not transformed, you can't risk coming in on protean blindly.
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Toxicroak: 96-114 (31.2 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
Additionally, you are such a momentum sink and obvious ash-Gren check that it is just going to spike on you and go to lando. Being forced to drain punch isn't a good option when lando/gliscor is on every team. It's too slow, too weak, and too susceptible to hazards to be used as an offensive check.
If you are going to gimp yourself this hard vs everything that isn't non-transformed, battle bond, specs greninja, then you may as well use something like gastrodon or chesnaught.
Doesn't stop sweeper mag and gets Vswitched on by fat sets. Heatran outspeeds and 2HKOs? Ttar -- barely. Koko is going to tbolt as you come in and then pivot out. You wont ever touch it. Toxapex yes. Serperior scarf only. Chansey sure.
I don't think toxicroack should be ranked. It is a toxapex stop and that's it.
Toxicroak isn't punishing any of its switch-ins with LO boosted attacks. Giving it LO wears it down too much for it to be able to check A-Gren, and the damage boost is insignificant against the likes of Lando-T or Scizor. Knock Off and Gunk Shot are your "punish" options.Toxicroak might have some uses as a Toxapex counter and Greninja check but it isn't really actually good. Certainly not a garbage AV set. At the very least give it Life Orb so it can punish every time you switch in for free on pex.
Keep it in YouTube gimmick videos where it belongs. Any uses it has in OU are minor and not really worth mentioning on serious teams.
Heatran can never stay in against Toxicroak since it dies to EQ. Toxicroak can't switch into Heatran, but neither can Heatran into Toxicroak. Only timid Z-Fire Heatran comfortably takes on Toxicroak 1v1.I wouldn't call it a niche anti-meta pick, since it doesn't really beat any top tiers aside from ash gren and toxapex. I will be going over how it fails at doing this role, aswell as why the replays don't really mean much.
Heatran completely wrecks it, z magma storm completely curb stomps it on a switchin and always kos without even having to risk a miss since flash cannon does about 40% while magma does about 70%. Sdef tran always gets free rocks up while still threatening croak with lava plume.
Protean gren is usually either Z dig, spikes or U-turn, all 3 of which wreck toxicroak. Tapu Fini completely wrecks it with Natures madness/moonblast as chip, toxicroak will not be capable of long term checking it.
Ferrothorn just leeches/gyro balls on the switch or just sets up hazards an serp just does the same except all serp sets beat it. Scarf is always knock off and standard just glares/leech seeds it.
That leaves toxapex and Ash-gren as the only two mons it checks, and well, it walls pex unless it's knock off and ash gren can just get up spikes. I really do not know why you brough up Suicune here at all, it's not really a top tier threat and isn't really seen much on ladder or in tourneys.
It also looses to most Top-tier threats, landorus-T completely curb stomps it, Magearna just gets free momentum out of it with Volt switch and also just fleur cannons it, Torn-T just spams hurricane/knock off unless you have a check (celesteela doesn't count, knock off just makes it borederline useless). Mega-Alakazam doesn't even die to sucker punch (max roll is 97%) and hits back with a STAB psychic. If you take a look at the viability rankings you will see that it does poorly against most of the meta.
The defensive calcs really don't mean much. I don't even know why you added the tran calcs, croak never switches into it nor does tran switch into croak, and even if you get into a 1v1 situation, tran is just gonna click z magma or z flash and OHKOs. Ttar just kos it, the chances of toxicroak not being chipped beforehand are so small that the calc doesn't even matter. And tapu Koko just volts/uturns, almost every Koko has volt/U-turn so again, it doesn't really matter.
Now I'll get into the replays and oh boy are they not accurate, in the first game, your opponent esentially just lets you get a free setup with mega gyarados, which KO's the webs setter giving you a decent starting advantage. Then they try to revenge kill gyara with pinsir which just gets stopped by lando, which then also ko's it with rock tomb since they for some reason click SD even though you went hard into landorus. And then they basically loose since they lost their only win con. Not to mention that the Ho in question (in my opinion) wasn't a very good one.
And now for the stall game and oh boy is this the most inaccurate representation of croak vs stall I will probably ever seen, first turn in and it's already apparent that the opponent isn't using protect mega-sableye (somthing very important to have if you don't have jirachi), which costs them their chansey. They also try to set up T-spikes on the celesteela for some reason, even though they should know that toxicroak walls. And if that wasn't bad enough, their team is for some reason, standard stall (toxapex, chansey, M-Sableye and skarmory) but with a defensive tapu bulu and a belly drum linoone thrown into the mix. Against a real stall team, the toxicroak team would just flop completely, since, there is no real stall breaker present (the skarm just sets up rocks/spikes for free and you pretty much just win from there).
My point is that, you can't really use replays against people who make lost of mistakes to prove that a mon is good enough to be ranked. These replays are extremely inaccurate and toxicroak doesn't even do much in any of them.
On rain, toxicroak doesn't really do much over any of the other mons, since standard rain is always Pelipper, Mega pert, Torn-T and Ferrothorn, fitting in toxicrak on the last two team slots can be quite hard since it's competition is Ash gren, Manaphy, Azumarill, Tapu Koko, Hawlucha and Kingdra, sure some of these mons have a distinct niche they have to follow in order to be good on rain but they do it well enough to be better than anything toxicroak can do. Against rain however, it's sort of interesting, it does poorly against every rain mon aside from Greninja and Kingdra, I could see it having potential as a greninja stopper, but it is heavily outclassed by the likes of toxapex and gastrodon at that role simply because both have reliable recovery while not really needing to be offensive since you can just pivot around and scald/toxic chip everything down.
My point in that whole heatran part was pretty much, why would I U-turn into toxicroak when there are better mons that can be U-turned into that also aren't sitting ducks against their counters. If the opponent has an sd z move lando/chomp, you pretty much have to fish for a gunk shot poison on the setup or else you just get swept. Which, wouldn't be a problem if you were using landorus and fini over toxicroak + another mon, since landorus can atleast punish a switch with U-turn, setup, rocks etc.Heatran can never stay in against Toxicroak since it dies to EQ. Toxicroak can't switch into Heatran, but neither can Heatran into Toxicroak. Only timid Z-Fire Heatran comfortably takes on Toxicroak 1v1.
I feel like people keep misinterpreting that Toxicroak counters all of the mons I've listed so far. It only counters Ash-Greninja and Toxapex. Everything else I've listed is checked by a Toxicroak given a free switch, being forced out at risk of being 2HKOd or OHKOd.
Sure, forcing mind games can be useful, but why would I risk mind games, when tapu fini is both decently offensive (moonblast and natures madness) and hard walls a decent chunk of the meta while still being capable of defoging the spikes away? It is both usually risk free, while still providing decent offense.Why would Ash-Greninja be transformed when you have Toxicroak up? And with Toxicroak being such an obvious switch-in, you can abuse the fact that they'll lock themselves into Spikes instead of attacking, forcing mindgames.
It gets worn down by hazards + random special attacks either way, you pretty much have to drain punch every switchin anyway, or else you just get chipped. This is why I really wouldn't call it a fini check, since you really have to spam defog and take moonblasts over and over again, which is eventually going to give the opponent enough time to wear it down.Toxicroak isn't punishing any of its switch-ins with LO boosted attacks. Giving it LO wears it down too much for it to be able to check A-Gren, and the damage boost is insignificant against the likes of Lando-T or Scizor. Knock Off and Gunk Shot are your "punish" options.
If your opponent still has a Z-Move ground type on their team, which is probably the hardest of hard counters to Toxicroak, then don't use Toxicroak so aggressively. Toxicroak can have teammates too, right? When used in conjunction with Lando-T, Toxicroak would cover Lando-T's susceptibility to A-Gren and defensive HP Ice Lando-T can cover opposing ground types. Fini does better against much more of the meta, but Toxicroak can beat Bulu and Serp.My point in that whole heatran part was pretty much, why would I U-turn into toxicroak when there are better mons that can be U-turned into that also aren't sitting ducks against their counters. If the opponent has an sd z move lando/chomp, you pretty much have to fish for a gunk shot poison on the setup or else you just get swept. Which, wouldn't be a problem if you were using landorus and fini over toxicroak + another mon, since landorus can atleast punish a switch with U-turn, setup, rocks etc.
Absolutely valid, which is why I nominated Toxicroak for C- tier instead of A tier like Fini. Toxicroak's only advantage over Fini is that it can OHKO specific targets.Sure, forcing mind games can be useful, but why would I risk mind games, when tapu fini is both decently offensive (moonblast and natures madness) and hard walls a decent chunk of the meta while still being capable of defoging the spikes away? It is both usually risk free, while still providing decent offense.
Toxicroak resists SR anyways, and the two most prominent Spikes setters in the tier, Ferro and Gren, can't set hazards in front of Toxicroak. If Spikes are already up then Toxicroak has some trouble.It gets worn down by hazards + random special attacks either way, you pretty much have to drain punch every switchin anyway, or else you just get chipped. This is why I really wouldn't call it a fini check, since you really have to spam defog and take moonblasts over and over again, which is eventually going to give the opponent enough time to wear it down.
The calc just demonstrates that Toxicroak will survive most of whatever Ttar throws at it, aside from EQ of course. 3 attacks Ttar usually carries double STAB and only one of EQ or Fire Punch for coverage anyways.I am also questioning why you even added the Tar calc, the only Ttar variant that is dd is the mega version, and the chances of it not being chipped beforehand are extremely slim so +1 Fire punch will usually OHKO.
I have been using chesnaught for about a month now and I 100% agree with this nomination. It completely invalidates ferrothron, easily checks kartana unless z giga impact (which is still about a 50 percent role to kill from full), checks z rock chomp, lando, ttar, bulu, swampert, and can switch in once or twice to pre-ash gren. Chesnaught has access to recovery in drain punch and leech seed. Although its recovery might not be enough at times, wish support makes its longevity a lot better. Chesnaught can also chip at the physical attackers with rocky helmet, the item I have been using on it. I prefer to go with max defense as you will need another check to gren anyways. Chesnaught still tanks gren's hits decently and force it out.I don't know if this mon has been talk about yet but I would like to make a case for it.
View attachment 194989
Unranked -> C- or C
Chesnaught has a interesting defensive niche as its one of the rare mons that resists the EdgeQuake combo and also resist both of Ash-Greninja's STABs. Its naturally good defense stats make it a decent check to M-Swampert, Tyranitar, and Choiced Kartana. And even countering a few of them like Z Stone Edge Garchomp. Bulletproof is a amazing ability thats lets it counter Ferrothorn completely.
So thats its defensive presence, so what utility does it have?
Luckly it gets access to Leech Seed to make up for its lack of reliable recovery and Spikes which is aways nice because there aren't many viable mons that get that move. But it also one of the rare mons that gets access to the amazing Spiky Shield which makes its match up against choice users even better and gives it leftovers recovery in the process.
Its also a grass type that Heatran doesn't want to switch into or even stay in because most Heatrans are now SpD Magma which has shaky accuracy.
I'll say C-/C is reasonable because it has horrible match ups against Clefable, Reuniclus, Tapu Bulu, Volcarona, and more.
The Set.
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 148 SpD
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield/Wood Hammer
- Spikes
148 SpD EVs lets Chesnaught take 2 Ash-Gren Hydro Pumps from full health and rest it poured into its Defense.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-976550948 Had a amazing match up and it put him in a awkward position and he tried to stop me from spamming leech seed and it didn't work out.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-976548695 Quick game but it shows how Chesnaught completely invaildates Z-Stone Edge Garchomp from wallbreaking. It also shows how useful Spiky Shield is as it blocked a trick from Jirachi.
Edited in.Hey Diophantine, you really need replays to support your post. Because it'd be a shame to outright delete, I'll give you 24 hours to add some.