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Heya! SpamtonZZZSpamton here, here to end a battle that has continued to rage for quite a long time now. In both Generation 6 and 7, the role of "best STag Mon" has been generally debated between two mons, Primal Groudon, and Mega Rayquaza. Now, I don't know enough about the Gen 6 meta to comment on the best STag Mon for that generation, but I do have enough information to give a definitive conclusion to this debate.
PDon is by far the better STag Mon compared to MRay.
So, lets start with the facts. Pros and cons of using each Mon as your STag Mon.
PROS: MRAY
- Immune to Spikes, Webs, and TSpikes
- 180 SpA compared to PDons 150
- Higher Speed of 115, compared to PDons 90
- Can OHKO Zygarde-Complete with Clangorous Soulblaze
PROS: PDON
- Not weak to Stealth Rocks
- Significantly more bulky
- Resists Sunsteel Strike
- Better STAB Combo for a STag mon
So, lets look a bit closer at some of MRays "Pros", shall we?
- Immune to Spikes, Webs, and TSpikes: The weakness to SRocks mostly cancels this out. The main upside here is guaranteed speed due to ignoring Webs, which is good.
- 180 SpA: It sure does have a 180 SpA. However, lets look at MRays typing. Dragon Flying means that MRay more or less only has two mons that it can actually hit Super-Effectively with its STABs. Zygarde Complete, and MMX (There is a issue with MMX however, we will get to it). So, despite having a higher SpA, the only moves it really wants to use off of this SpA is Soulblaze, and MMM. Both of these moves are something that PDon generally does not do, but the 180 SpA more or less just translates to these moves. That is it.
- Can OHKO Zygarde-Complete with Soulblaze: The issue here is a single move. Trick. Both MRay and PDon can use Trick with Scarf on STag sets, and both cripple Zygarde Complete. With a Scarf, Zygarde has to choose between Hazing a set-up Mon, which means it can't heal, Healing, which means it can't Haze, or using a filler move, which means it can't heal or Haze. For all of these, a blatant weakness is opened up for the STag mon's team to abuse. So while just killing Zygarde with Soulblaze might sound extremely good, which it is, just giving it a Scarf can cripple it into no longer being a issue. And both PDon and MRay can do this.
- 115 Speed: It sure does have 115 speed. But, what does this let it outspeed compared to PDon? Let's see...Ninjask and Deo-S. That's it. You need a 160 base speed to outspeed +Speed Scarf PDon, and only these two mons pass that threshold. Ninjask isn't real, so you only really outspeed Deo-S. And now, let me ask you, how much does that actually matter? There is only one situation. Getting in front of a Deo-S that has taken some chip damage. If it is at full, both realistic items of Choice Scarf and Sash cause MRay to die. If it is chipped, then only one kills you, Scarf. As well, remember that MRay cannot switch in on Deo-S, as if it gets put to sleep it can't kill Deo-S, if it gets Sheer Cold'd then it just dies, and if it gets Gastro'd then they can just switch out. In the vast majority of senerios, it isn't worth it to be faster then Deo-S.
- And now, for the main issue with MRay, one that I have yet to mention so far. Imagine, you are in on a MMX. You know it isn't Sash, you know it isn't Scarf, and it is chipped a bit. MRay MMM cleanly OHKO's at this range. You outspeed them, they can't switch, everything is going well....until they Ice Shard you and kill you from full. The commonplace nature of Ice Shard is bad news for MRay, as it further limits the mons it can actually trap and kill. On the other hand, PDon doesn't give a shit about Ice Shard. The only way to escape from that situation as MMX is to run Water Shuriken, and even then you need some heavy luck and chip (252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-X Water Shuriken (15 BP) (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Groudon-Primal: 340-400 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). As well, Water Shuriken is also a very rare move, as Water Bubble is not real anymore, and Water Shuriken doesn't hit anything other then like M-Steelix.
In conclusion, MRay has a niche, mainly of being able to OHKO Zygarde from full. But let's not pretend that that alone somehow makes it better then PDon. PDon is clearly the better STag Mon. The war is over. PDon won. In the end, it's like they say.
How it comes that the best stag mon is either pdon or mray? I wanna name some stag/arena trap users that I find being good and briefly explain why.
(to make the numbers make more sense we define audino as a bulk unit here, with abbr of AU, meaning the bulk of a mega-audino with full physical defense invest and positive nature, and full special defense invest)
(If not specified all the stats are without nature boost expect for speed)
Some stats for reference
Audino-Mega
- 1 AU physically (positive nature)
- 1 AU specially
Groudon-Primal
- 180 ATK or 459 actual stat
- 150 SPA or 399 actual stat
Mewtwo-Mega-X
- 130 SPE
here is stats of pdon which is said to be the best stag user
ground + fire
- 180 ATK or 459 actual stat (Great)
- 150 SPA or 399 actual stat (Good)
- Physical bulk 1.07 AU (Good)
- Special bulk 0.783 AU (Mid)
- 90 Base SPE (bad) - (out speed 0-140 (inclusive) base speed stat mons with positive nature if scarf + no nature boost) - (out speed 0-159 (inclusive) base speed stat mons with positive nature if scarf + nature boost)
- access to stab fire (vcreate) and ground (bonemerang, thowsand arrows)
summary: A bulky slow tank that can hit non wgs hard as a truck with vcreate.
here are the stag mons I wanna name
Mewtwo-Mega-X
psychic + fighting
- 194 ATK or 479 actual stat (Exellent)
- 154 SPA or 407 actual stat (Good)
- Physical bulk 0.786 AU (Mid)
- Special bulk 0.864 AU (Mid)
- 130 Base SPE (Mid) - (out speed everything unboosted if scarf + no nature boost)
- (tie with 73 base speed +2 if scarf + no nature boost)
- (out speed 85 base speed +2 if scarf + nature boost)
- access to stab psychic(Photon Geyser, light that burns the sky) and fighting(Close combat, Sacred Sword, Mach Punch, vacuum wave)
summary: mid bulk mid speed attacker that can use stab moldy move to catch WGs off guard.
Pheromosa
bug + fighting
- 137 ATK or 373 actual stat (bad)
- 137 SPA or 373 actual stat (bad)
- Physical bulk 0.378 AU (Very bad)
- Special bulk 0.416 AU (Very bad)
- 151 Base SPE (Exellent) - (out speed everything unboosted if scarf + no nature boost)
- (out speed 87 base speed +2 if scarf + no nature boost) - (out speed 100 base speed +2 if scarf + nature boost)
- access to stab bug(First Impression, U - Turn) and fighting(Close Combat , Scared Sword)
summary: Glass cannon no1. Despite having a very bad bulk and mid tier offense stat, it doesn't rely too much on priority to do revenge killing, and the access to z moves have magnified this advantage for pheromosa by a lot.
I like how all three of these teams were added, and then removed at the next possible chance. (Honestly I am unsure on how Clockup Flowers even made it to being a sample but whatever.)
Also, I have to ask, what is going on with the Pikachu sample? Pikachu has more or less always been not very good, because it is a worse Chansey with zero surprise factor that can only do anything if:
- Whatever the Impostor target is is Paralyzed, or Tailwind is up
- If not, then you have to win a speed tie, which if you lose Pikachu is gonna die because they are frail as sandpaper that has been marinating in a Dark Souls poison swamp since DS2
- If you have the speed control, or just win the speed tie, then you can only gain a real benefit of running Pika over Chansey if the only Improof they have is soft as hell
- Any hard Improof completely shuts it down in a way that Chansey doesn't care as much about because Chansey is bulky enough to keep coming in, Pikachu is not
- Due to needing to run Light Ball, Pikachu is also extremely predictable, unlike Chansey who can run Scarf, Eviolite, (Sash and Leppa?)
- Literally any competent Innards Out mon annihilates Pikachu, and I mean ANY competent Innards Out mon. Even shit like Guzzlord can easily 1v1 Pikachu
Anyway, moving past Pikachu, lets look at the other mons, shall we?
Ash Gren: Is stuck in the sad spot of having to press Non-STaB Special Photon into a MAud as the only way of doing anything, also isn't all that strong seeing as how it is a Special attacker with the strongest neutral hit being Dark Pulse (Also Mega Houndoom walls it but that doesn't matter)
MMX #1: That is some of the tastiest MLix/MAgg food of all time. Prankster MLix/MAgg eats it alive, and you do not have anywhere close to the power on your other mons to compensate for your main breaker being so cockblocked by a common Prankhaze mon
Steelix: Standard PrankHaze, but it has to sacrifice a moveslot to try and enable Pikachu (Also it seems like the main way of getting Pikachu in while Tailwind is up is to sacrifice something after the Steelix presses Tailwind, and seeing as you only have 4 turns to get the clip, it feels like even getting Pikachu to work on a team that tries to enable it is a pain in the ass)
MMX #2: HO lead? The only Mon with any hazards, which is a problem because guess what? Another easy way to beat Pikachu is just to have a sash! And seeing as how this team doesn't really have all that much instant offensive pressure, getting rid of the rocks is not that big of a issue, and with rocks gone the best Pikachu can do into quite a lot of normally juicy Impostor targets is sacrifice itself to get a sash gone, which is not the best use of a Mon like Pikachu. This set feels weird here, maybe I am missing something, but I just don't see it.
MAud: MAud is very passive. This is OK, most if not all MAud are passive. But when you have a team that really needs to keep rocks up, having such a passive Mon is a momentum sink that a lot of the time you probably can't afford.
As well, remember that samples are meant to be somewhat easy to use, to guide new players into the format. A team like this is extremely hard to pilot, because if not played perfectly Pika is just a worse Chansey, and the other mons on the team are not good enough to compensate for Pika's existence.
In conclusion, this team is out of place. Maybe, with the right pilot, this team could be good. But it is way to hard to use, and honestly does not seem that good to begin with, even with a good pilot. It seems like this sample kinda just showed up, and it might be a good idea for it to go the way of the Clockup Flower and not be in the main sample area.
(BTW Ransei this is not a personal attack, I just don't see this team being in the Samples.)
SAMPLE SUBMISSION https://pokepast.es/c207893b07b864d8
MMX hyper Offence with kart as a 2nd option very simple improof with a mmx lead then turn 1 switch into blissey to bait mmx to use Sunsteel, Photon or CC.
Sunsteel on mmx is to shutdown the worst wg to fight (alolan muk)
Earth judgement on pdon is self improof
Ice beam on mgar is a yaveltal counter (hoping for no sucker punch but that seems less common)
SSS on kart is a nuke to shutdown setups and same for spore
https://pokepast.es/d2ada83732e16e98
MMX hyper Offence with kart as a 2nd option very simple improof with a mmx lead then turn 1 switch into blissey to bait mmx to use Sunsteel, Photon or CC.
Sunsteel on mmx is to
shutdown the worst wg to fight (alolan muk)
Tri attack on pdon is self improof/stab.
Ice beam on mgar is a yaveltal counter (hoping for no sucker punch but that seems less viable"
SSS on kart is a nuke to shutdown setups and same for spore
I was so ready to write a 10 page essay on why Tri-Attack PDon is complete dogshit, but then I saw you meant Multi-Attack.
Anyway, lets look at this team:
Kartana: I'm gonna dock points for using Pure Power over Huge Power, but other then that it is a mostly standard HP Kart. Not much to say.
MMX: I am starting to notice that your team might have a Slowbro problem. Also, I am starting to notice a Impostor problem as well. Like, if the Innards Out Blissey dies, what the hell do you do if MMX or Kart is Impostored? It just kinda feels like you lose in that situation, which is not a good Improof at all. Improofing with Innards in general is very shaky, as it forces you to use it if the opponent has Impostor, which means that if they have a later Mon that also sweeps you, you don't have the Innards to counter it.
Blissey: Standard Innards, maybe a Healing Berry over Lum, but I would like to use this slot to mention that you have a team with two Sashes and zero hazard removal, no Magic Bounce, and the only rocks you have are on a Innards Mon who dies on the switch half the time. Hazards are a big problem, as it doesn't matter if your +2 Kart does 1987 damage to a MMX if that MMX has a Sash and just kills you after.
Yveltal:
252+ SpA Parental Bond Gengar-Mega Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Yveltal: 264-312 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
...Uh...not so sure about being a Yveltal counter, as you need to catch it on the switch anyway, but ok I guess.
Regigigas: First off, good job not using Slacking, you get the points back for using Pure Power from earlier. Normalium Z seems like a counter to Zygarde, because +2 Z-Espeed OHKOs Zygarde, but Steelix/Aggron still eat it alive, and once again, Slowbro shows up and consumes the set.
PDon: Extreme Evoboost again with zero priority to stop PrankHaze. Zygarde eats this, as expected. Slowbro walls this, because Slowbro walls everything on this team other then Moongeist MGar and a +2 Kart SSS, which they can only do once. Oh yeah, also fun fact:
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Multi-Attack (Ground) vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 156-186 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 11.2% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 SpA Chansey Mind Blown vs. +2 252 HP / 252- SpD Groudon-Primal: 128-151 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO
Ah yes, a "Improof"
(This does not Improof at all, and if the Chansey just Evoboosts again:
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Multi-Attack (Ground) vs. +4 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 104-126 (14.7 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
+4 252 SpA Chansey Mind Blown vs. +2 252 HP / 252- SpD Groudon-Primal: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
LMAO
TLDR: If a Impostor gets to Impostor the PDon once it has pressed Evoboost, you seemingly just lose. Like completely lose. Idk what the hell you can even do to stop a +4 Impostored PDon with Magic Guard.
In conclusion, the PDon set is a trap that lets your opponent just win. Very funny.
I was so ready to write a 10 page essay on why Tri-Attack PDon is complete dogshit, but then I saw you meant Multi-Attack.
Anyway, lets look at this team:
Kartana: I'm gonna dock points for using Pure Power over Huge Power, but other then that it is a mostly standard HP Kart. Not much to say.
MMX: I am starting to notice that your team might have a Slowbro problem. Also, I am starting to notice a Impostor problem as well. Like, if the Innards Out Blissey dies, what the hell do you do if MMX or Kart is Impostored? It just kinda feels like you lose in that situation, which is not a good Improof at all. Improofing with Innards in general is very shaky, as it forces you to use it if the opponent has Impostor, which means that if they have a later Mon that also sweeps you, you don't have the Innards to counter it.
Blissey: Standard Innards, maybe a Healing Berry over Lum, but I would like to use this slot to mention that you have a team with two Sashes and zero hazard removal, no Magic Bounce, and the only rocks you have are on a Innards Mon who dies on the switch half the time. Hazards are a big problem, as it doesn't matter if your +2 Kart does 1987 damage to a MMX if that MMX has a Sash and just kills you after.
Yveltal:
252+ SpA Parental Bond Gengar-Mega Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Yveltal: 264-312 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
...Uh...not so sure about being a Yveltal counter, as you need to catch it on the switch anyway, but ok I guess.
Regigigas: First off, good job not using Slacking, you get the points back for using Pure Power from earlier. Normalium Z seems like a counter to Zygarde, because +2 Z-Espeed OHKOs Zygarde, but Steelix/Aggron still eat it alive, and once again, Slowbro shows up and consumes the set.
PDon: Extreme Evoboost again with zero priority to stop PrankHaze. Zygarde eats this, as expected. Slowbro walls this, because Slowbro walls everything on this team other then Moongeist MGar and a +2 Kart SSS, which they can only do once. Oh yeah, also fun fact:
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Multi-Attack (Ground) vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 156-186 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 11.2% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 SpA Chansey Mind Blown vs. +2 252 HP / 252- SpD Groudon-Primal: 128-151 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO
Ah yes, a "Improof"
(This does not Improof at all, and if the Chansey just Evoboosts again:
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Multi-Attack (Ground) vs. +4 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 104-126 (14.7 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
+4 252 SpA Chansey Mind Blown vs. +2 252 HP / 252- SpD Groudon-Primal: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
LMAO
TLDR: If a Impostor gets to Impostor the PDon once it has pressed Evoboost, you seemingly just lose. Like completely lose. Idk what the hell you can even do to stop a +4 Impostored PDon with Magic Guard.
In conclusion, the PDon set is a trap that lets your opponent just win. Very funny.
SAMPLE SUBMISSION https://pokepast.es/d2ada83732e16e98
MMX hyper Offence with kart as a 2nd option very simple improof with a mmx lead then turn 1 switch into blissey to bait mmx to use Sunsteel, Photon or CC.
Sunsteel on mmx is to shutdown the worst wg to fight (alolan muk)
Multi-attack on pdon is self improof/stab.
Ice beam on mgar is a yaveltal counter (hoping for no sucker punch but that seems less common)
SSS on kart is a nuke to shutdown setups and same for spore
team looks mostly standard, though there are some weird things i'd change about it
- mmx set is mostly fine though your team doesn't like megabro at all so i think i'd go geist/beat up over shadow sneak (if you do beat up adjust your team order for beat up numbers click the spoiler to see how to do that), i'd go moongeist to make the mmx improof more reliable though it's up to you
beat up does damage based on the base attack stat of everyone in your team, the way it's calculated is the base power of each hit is (base attack stat/10)+5 rounding down whenever there's a decimal, for example kartana's beat up number is 23, open up the damage calc and change the numbers to whatever's on your team until it hits innards chans/bliss hard enough to almost ko but not quite, kinda tedious but it's pretty worth it imo
- normalium z on regigigas is pretty weird to me i think i'd go lum/iapapa/sash over it, maybe plasma fists > fake out to fix your megabro problem though without a reliable hazard guy i'm not sure if i like that too much
- make blissey max spdef +spdef nature you are not dying to any special hits whatsoever even with minimum special defense.
- pdon's wack it doesn't really improof itself at all and nothing else can revenge kill. if you want to keep magic guard i'd just go the standard smash sunsteel mind blown freeze dry set with either sash or life orb (if you go sash go rash nature if you go life orb go naughty), gigas should revenge kill? though check the calcs for yourself i'm not 100% sure, if you want to self improof i'd go wg smash sunsteel ground judgment filler, ground judgment over multi attack ground to hit the fat physdef steels harder.
- make mmx female if you're real
SAMPLE SUBMISSION https://pokepast.es/946a8b1eb3b4938d
MMX hyper Offence with kart as a 2nd option very simple improof with a mmx lead then turn 1 switch into blissey to bait mmx to use Sunsteel, Photon or CC.
Sunsteel on mmx is to shutdown the worst wg to fight (alolan muk)
Earth judgement on pdon is self improof
Ice beam on mgar is a yaveltal counter (hoping for no sucker punch but that seems less common)
SSS on kart is a nuke to shutdown setups and same for spore
I have edited my original post to be better because I realised that the team was not meeting it's potential and so thats why it's edited with a better version of the team
I like how all three of these teams were added, and then removed at the next possible chance. (Honestly I am unsure on how Clockup Flowers even made it to being a sample but whatever.)
Also, I have to ask, what is going on with the Pikachu sample? Pikachu has more or less always been not very good, because it is a worse Chansey with zero surprise factor that can only do anything if:
- Whatever the Impostor target is is Paralyzed, or Tailwind is up
- If not, then you have to win a speed tie, which if you lose Pikachu is gonna die because they are frail as sandpaper that has been marinating in a Dark Souls poison swamp since DS2
- If you have the speed control, or just win the speed tie, then you can only gain a real benefit of running Pika over Chansey if the only Improof they have is soft as hell
- Any hard Improof completely shuts it down in a way that Chansey doesn't care as much about because Chansey is bulky enough to keep coming in, Pikachu is not
- Due to needing to run Light Ball, Pikachu is also extremely predictable, unlike Chansey who can run Scarf, Eviolite, (Sash and Leppa?)
- Literally any competent Innards Out mon annihilates Pikachu, and I mean ANY competent Innards Out mon. Even shit like Guzzlord can easily 1v1 Pikachu
Anyway, moving past Pikachu, lets look at the other mons, shall we?
Ash Gren: Is stuck in the sad spot of having to press Non-STaB Special Photon into a MAud as the only way of doing anything, also isn't all that strong seeing as how it is a Special attacker with the strongest neutral hit being Dark Pulse (Also Mega Houndoom walls it but that doesn't matter)
MMX #1: That is some of the tastiest MLix/MAgg food of all time. Prankster MLix/MAgg eats it alive, and you do not have anywhere close to the power on your other mons to compensate for your main breaker being so cockblocked by a common Prankhaze mon
Steelix: Standard PrankHaze, but it has to sacrifice a moveslot to try and enable Pikachu (Also it seems like the main way of getting Pikachu in while Tailwind is up is to sacrifice something after the Steelix presses Tailwind, and seeing as you only have 4 turns to get the clip, it feels like even getting Pikachu to work on a team that tries to enable it is a pain in the ass)
MMX #2: HO lead? The only Mon with any hazards, which is a problem because guess what? Another easy way to beat Pikachu is just to have a sash! And seeing as how this team doesn't really have all that much instant offensive pressure, getting rid of the rocks is not that big of a issue, and with rocks gone the best Pikachu can do into quite a lot of normally juicy Impostor targets is sacrifice itself to get a sash gone, which is not the best use of a Mon like Pikachu. This set feels weird here, maybe I am missing something, but I just don't see it.
MAud: MAud is very passive. This is OK, most if not all MAud are passive. But when you have a team that really needs to keep rocks up, having such a passive Mon is a momentum sink that a lot of the time you probably can't afford.
As well, remember that samples are meant to be somewhat easy to use, to guide new players into the format. A team like this is extremely hard to pilot, because if not played perfectly Pika is just a worse Chansey, and the other mons on the team are not good enough to compensate for Pika's existence.
In conclusion, this team is out of place. Maybe, with the right pilot, this team could be good. But it is way to hard to use, and honestly does not seem that good to begin with, even with a good pilot. It seems like this sample kinda just showed up, and it might be a good idea for it to go the way of the Clockup Flower and not be in the main sample area.
(BTW Ransei this is not a personal attack, I just don't see this team being in the Samples.)
Gonna address each of these concerns. It's a lot of words and honestly kinda sloppy since I've tried to not make this much longer than it likely needed to be, and I'm a bit tired.
Regarding Pikachu, this team was tailor-made around putting Pikachu into good use. From testing it throughout many times, I've personally found it works very fine here. Most of the time it acts similar to Chansey, but unlike Chansey its aim is to act a lot more aggressive. Pikachu isn't very bad when given proper support as it can punish plenty of resisted improof switchin Pokemon in ways Chansey cannot otherwise.
Here's some examples of this
(MMX) 252+ Atk Light Ball Huge Power Pikachu Photon Geyser vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 336-396 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (OHKO if evoboosted or shell smashed) (MMX) 252+ Atk Light Ball Huge Power Pikachu Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 271-319 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (OHKO if evoboosted or shell smashed) (MMX) 252+ Atk Light Ball Huge Power Pikachu Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix-Mega: 183-216 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (OHKO if evoboosted or shell smashed)
(MMY) +2 252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gyarados-Mega: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (MMY) +2 252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk-Alola: 212-250 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (MMY) +2 252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 267-315 (66 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
These guys not being able to switch in is huge since it pretty much means Pikachu guarantees at least 1 KO and could sweep the entire team if they try to go for their conventional Chansey switch-in.
(MMY) +2 252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta in Psychic Terrain: 402-473 (99.5 - 117%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (MMY) +2 252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 774-912 (108.4 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Kartana) +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Pikachu Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 318-374 (82.3 - 96.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Gengar-Mega) 252+ SpA Light Ball Parental Bond Pikachu Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 396-470 (98 - 116.3%) -- 96.1% chance to OHKO (Shell Smash Fake Out Slaking) +2 252+ Atk Light Ball Huge Power Pikachu Fake Out vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Slaking: 793-934 (157.3 - 185.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO - If Slaking does not have Fake Out, it's threatened by Pikachu after Tailwind.
These OHKOs are huge because they invalidate typical switchins for some of the best offensive Pokemon in the metagame.
=============================================================================================
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Pikachu: 206-244 (75.1 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 412-486 (99 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Pikachu can even solo Mega Mewtwo Y in a 1v1 under great conditions.
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Pikachu: 234-276 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 464-548 (114.8 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
There's possibly plenty more examples to pull from but this is enough, since it covers all of the best offense Pokemon in the metagame.
For speed-tie situations, I'd argue it's in favor of the Pikachu user, because if you lose, you've lost a Pikachu, but if your opponent loses, there's a pretty decent chance their whole team is swept unless they carry hard improofs.
Regarding hard-improofs, Balance falling off has made hard-improofs more difficult to truly justify into a team imo, as this tends to require full immunity to all attacks of an offensive Pokemon and sacrifice of significant coverage moves for the respective offense Pokemon. For example, you'd need to forego Sunsteel Strike on Slaking, could have to forego dual moldy moves on Mega Mewtwo Y, as well as super effective coverage for Dark-type or Steel-type Pokemon it may struggle against, forego either a lot of coverage or Sunsteel Strike on Mega Mewtwo X, etc. Stuff offensive teams arguably don't like. Teams these days are sticking more to either resistances like Mega Scizor, Celesteela, Meloetta (for Photon), or Mega Gyarados, or are eitherwise sticking with soft-improofs like Focus Sash Kartana and Mega Mewtwo X.
Additionally, if a hard-improof is around, Chansey is going to be useless for much of the game and the opposing team likely has plenty of ways to let Pikachu recover, as them switching to their improof gives Pikachu a free opportunity to switch out and come back in later. There isn't much of a point in comparing this scenario with Pikachu.
Regarding Light Ball as a surprise factor: To be real Chansey in offense teams these days really love Choice Scarf because opposing hyper offense or offense teams could run sets such as V-Create Kartana or Life Orb/Mind Plate/Choice Band Light That Burns The Sky Mega Mewtwo X in order to fully decimate opposing Chansey's HP out of nowhere. If these Pokemon are set up, they don't have to utilize such extreme moves either in order to accomplish this. Mega Mewtwo X having Shell Smash up threatens Eviolite Chansey with a speed-tie, leaving Chansey in much of the same spot. The other items Chansey holds aren't great enough to be worth mentioning as it either winning speed ties or having the additional bulk needed to defeat hard offense Pokemon has become more critical over the past several months. Leppa Berry, Plate, Shed Shell, etc may have niches in like 1 tour game or so but they aren't items that should be ran prominently.
As for Innards Out, Innards Out Pokemon can defeat Pikachu, yes, but the right piloting on Innards Out Blissey can defeat Imposter Chansey, and an opposing team using Innards Out to defeat Pikachu ends up having less counterplay for this team's Huge Power Evoboost Mega Mewtwo X who could sweep them later. Lots of teams don't usually carry more than 1 Innards Out Pokemon, and in this case, using Innards Out for Pikachu could become a detrimental play if the Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X is still around.
Now for other team members:
Ash Greninja's presence compliments for what this team could struggle against. Mega Steelix and especially Doublade could give this team a hard time when they're used, but Ash Gren could be able to pressure or devour Mega Steelix and completely destroy Doublade with proper set up. Otherwise it's fine for dealing with Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Mewtwo Y with the right positioning that gets it to x2 SpA and Speed. As long as the opposing Mega Mewtwo X doesn't carry Mach Punch or First Impression, Ash Gren should be fine against them after setting up. Also beats Mega Gengar and Imposter Chansey/Blissey, leaving it able to fight off most of the top tiers in the game on its own.
- While Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X is walled by Mega Steelix and Mega Aggron, Ash Greninja can help pressure the former, Mega Aggron rarely exists in the metagame, and the former has been falling off over the past several months in favor of more offense and hyper offense strategies, making it become less of an issue than usual for this team.
- Mega Steelix does need Tailwind to help support Pikachu but it handles this really well and can even help Evoboost Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X easily snag wins by avoiding speed ties against Mega Gengar/opposing Mega Mewtwo X or just outright outspeeding faster Pokemon, such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Deoxys-Speed. It's also important to note that I usually sack Mega Steelix during Tailwind's presence if the opponent has used Shell Smash or Extreme Evoboost, allowing Pikachu to only worry about defeating the Pokemon in front of it, since the rest may be taken care of afterwards. It's a great move for this team that's helped out a ton. Doesn't feel like much of a sacrifice and certainly isn't a pain when timed well.
- This Mold Breaker Mega Mewtwo X is really good at getting hazards up and keeping them up with Taunt. Taunt prevents Defoggers from using it on the right turn. You can also punish some of them by chucking Light That Burns The Sky and then Extreme Speed. Aside from that, from my experience this Mega Mewtwo X lead tends to be good at lasting long enough to keep forcing hazards in if they do end up gone at some point, as it's bulky enough to not get KOed by things in front of it unless they go absolutely nuclear with their own CFZ + priority. On top of that, the rest of this team is also extremely anti-sash, with Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X carrying Icicle Spear, Mega Audino having U-Turn to build momentum around offensive switchins (many tend to have Sash), and even Mega Steelix punishing offense Pokemon with Thousand Waves, trapping them in and breaking their sash, ensuring Pikachu can revenge them if Mega Steelix goes down to a following move.
- Maud is very fine here as it helps block No Guard, has great synergy with Ash Gren, Mega Steelix, Pikachu and Mega Mewtwo X for various reasons, and if an offense mon is predicted to switch in, in order to take advantage of it, Mega Audino can U-Turn on that turn. If there's a Wonder Guard with Defog coming in instead, Mega Aud can hardswitch into either Mega Mewtwo X or Ash Gren, depending on the situation. Its passivity isn't much of a concern as you can punish the opponent with momentum.
Anyway, pointing out the flaws of a sample team and Pokemon who beat it is kinda futile in this meta, as at the end of the day, this is Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon Pure Hackmons. Every single team in this metagame is going to have easy to point out flaws and countermeasures. What truly matters is how well it performs in spite of that. If a team can prove to show success in this metagame despite the flaws that can easily be point out, it is a good team for this meta.
Here are the reasons I've chosen this team to be put on samples:
1) It's a team seen proven successful over the course of time, making great w/l rates on ladder, beating numerous high level players, and even witnessing multiple other players make 1600s+ with the team, including another player reaching top 2. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2361985429 (this player used the team mostly from 1500s all the way up to late 1740s)
2) When this team was not a sample, this team was used more frequently by players relatively newish to the game than the majority of our existing samples, while still doing quite well. I even lost to a newer player who was using this team.
3) The reason why I kept the Pikachu version specifically is because Pikachu can hold up quite well in this team and sticking with the Ash Ketchum team would allow more players to be drawn towards samples. If newer players prefer using this team over existing sample teams while still being successful, it gives a signal that this team could work.
I'd also like to add as a bonus that this team is highly flexible and can be adjusted in many ways that can work. One example is here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pure-hackmons-ash-ketchum-90-0-gxe.3757154/#post-10571318 where Ash Greninja was replaced by Arceus and other minor adjustments were made. I've tested versions with Chansey over Pikachu as well, with Arceus and with Primal Kyogre. I've personally haven't seen much difference in effectiveness between them and the team having Pikachu, as they both play similar functions for this team most of the time and Pikachu really isn't as bad as what's being made out to be.
This is the Kyogre version with Chansey: https://pokepast.es/9c36427d882f517e. I've swapped between Photon Geyser and Moongeist Beam. One handles Arceus, the other handles Mewtwos better. For Arceus, Spikes over Stealth Rock on Mega Mewtwo X is preferred to help with Arceus's damage rolls against opposing Mega Mewtwo X.
tl;dr: This team is one that has actively proven to be successful throughout the course of time in USUM Pure Hackmons, against the ladder and against notable players, whether it's the base version of the team or other iterations made. In practice, very few teams have ever made as much of a showing as this one, at least to me, and the number one issue we've been having with samples lately imo is nobody wanting to use them. The Ash Ketchum team is effective, while providing a fun theme that draws people in and serves as a great intro to the metagame. It can sneak wins against prominent players or just boost them several hundred elo up on the ladder before they start to get a feel on what to build. Difficulty-wise? While not the easiest, it's not very hard to eventually figure out. Stealth Rock MMX is a blatant lead, Mega Aud and Ash Gren are general wg switchins for such, Tailwind is almost obviously for either Pikachu or Mega Mewtwo X and to be used as a last or near last resort for when Mega Steelix is about to faint, etc. It's also a great representation of the metagame as it promotes creative freedom in teambuilding. Pikachu isn't a Pokemon teams would normally run but this one is tailor-made to support it, and the Mold Breaker Mega Mewtwo X set originated here. It's quite an immensely scary set especially against more passive Pokemon but no other team has really used it yet as far as I'm aware. USUM is all about what you can do by building a team, so eventually once a player becomes more experienced, they'd want to prioritize using their own teams much of the time. Giving people a great start with a team holding an interesting theme, while having a good showing in practice over the course of time is great.
This team ticks all the boxes for what a sample team should be like. It's an old team built in February 2024, but despite its age, I've found it still holds up decently. If you want to use Chansey, that's fine. You can replace Pikachu with Chansey. If you want to replace Ash Greninja, that's also fine. Part of the point should be for a sample to be easily adjustable while still doing well without any adjustments. The best samples we've had in the history of this meta have all helped players learn what changes fit for them, which ultimately helped them thrive on the ladder. In the tours, samples don't generally get used very often and there isn't much room to consistently use them, as it leads to them being counterteamed more easily due to the nature of this meta. It beating players who participate in these tours, should leave a great impression however.
I hate almost all of these samples so I’m going to go over why I think they are bad and why we should get different samples (is this really the best y’all could do?)
Starting off with the MMX spam: https://pokepast.es/2e6f87e4bc3ac038
To start off, this team really wants webs up but the deos can’t do anything to de-incentivize mbounce KyuW or Cuno from coming in, if webs ever get bounced then you straight up lose to ng unless you sacc innards to it which then leaves you with no improof besides relying on sashes which is inconsistent with no major way to prevent hazards. I will give this team some grace with the fact that the surprise factor from triple mmx makes it hard to accurately predict what will be used against you but later in the game as things take damage it becomes easier to figure out what mmx is the right one. Slak is standard, struggled into any wg that resist sunsteel and one of the mmx’s also can’t touch wg pdon.
I’m not gonna dive too deep into this team as it is already known I’m not an mmx spam fan and I feel it is just here cuz spam looks cool.
Starting off, innards Chansey is a bad improof because it loses to imp bliss and the mg kart has no imrpoof so every time imp comes in on it, it just claims free damage (innards Blissy can really make this team struggle tho unless spikes can go up and are maintained) You can also just never let opposing hazards stay up otherwise you can easily lose to other breakers and be forced to sacc innards which leaves you unimproofed and now imp hp kart can wipe the floor with you.
I will say that Gold has seen good results with this team and I think they have beat me with it at least once but I think it is poorly structured and relies on sleep turns a lot.
Aerobee team: https://pokepast.es/41aaa410ec71be40
This team is probably the best team on samples atm, the arc set pairs really well with mgar tspikes. My issues with this team come from the faulty improofing. KyuW and Mgar are poorly imrpoofed by Tina-O which means you cannot take any chip against imrposter, it also struggles into slaking because if your opponent can get up hazards with a mon that threatens KyuW then Tina can no longer threaten slaking and if it takes chip it also struggles to threaten a lot of other high hp breakers. Deos is improofed by KyuW so I understand it being a bit more passive.
With that being said, I do actually respect this team and think it is sample worthy.
Ransei team: https://pokepast.es/607542bade1f8a78
Imp Pikachu is just kinda outclassed by evio or scarf imp in most cases imo, gren is walled by wg maud, mscizor, kartana to an extent, pdon to an extent, arceus to an extent and I’m not even sure how well it threatens zygod. This team has a common problem of not having enough breaking potential once your opponent saccs innards to the hp mmx, the mold breaker mmx seems mostly larp to guarantee hazards and is just kinda bad.
I don’t think this team benefits from tailwin mlix that much, dbond would be better. Maud is ok I guess, it is a Ransei team so of course maud is on it. This team is obviously bad but it is a sample because “theme teams lure players in”.
Another team with limited breaking potential. Innards is always sacced to mmx and then you rely on imp and mdia to break but if your opponent actually improofs then imp can’t do a whole lot and mdia loses to wg msciz, kart, pdon, slowbro, prank mlix/maggron and it even loses to non wg pdon sets as well as loses to wg mdoom. The defensive core is mostly fine but does have some glaring weaknesses like mg sets, most pdon sets, certain karts sets (like fire memory wg kart) as well as struggles into mmx sets that actually use cfz moves.
This team is bad and I think it should be swapped out.
I have no idea why this was added, Idt Eyeos making it to 1700 with a bad team justifies it becoming a sample. Any sheer cold ng faster than yvel clears this team or forces innards to be sacced enabling mmx to sweep, sunsteel is already a good move in mmx as well as Kart being able to clear this team (hp mainly) I suppose beak blast gives you an out into kart but even then it is pretty sketchy since kart can just spore you. Wg slak also has a bad moveset and imp is really the main saving grace to this team.
Here is a replay of me against this team (msciz over steela tho) which showcases how hard it loses to HO. This stall team has no major outs into cfzs and really just seems prepped to beat balance while having little to no outs into more aggressive teams. I’ve faced this team on ladder a lot and have never been impressed by it, not a whole lot to say, stall is just not that amazing into a strong offensive team imo.
I do think this should be a sample tho just so new players have the option to play stall.
team name: Annihilation in F# Minor (click on sprite for team)
synopsis: mono rock hyper offense ft. prankster encore/dbond
how to play: use the unpredictable power of 4 diancies and the speed of no guard aerodactyl/prank ttar to cheese every game vs offense. its the same principle as mmx spam except its better equipped vs some offense meta trends. also it looks funnier so it will attract players to the meta ala pdon spam
fakespeed diancie kills deoxys-s/aerodactyl/sceptile/and mmx and 50% to zygarde
other options: literally any coverage on the diancies can be switched around - mind blown on mg diancie, v-create on no guard diancie, etc
weaknesses: parental bond users (particularly guys that can boost) are a pain, stall is really hard if you keep the team as is, wg swampert in a similar vein. although the latter 2 can be remedied by running different coverage. setup pdon is nearly unwinnable
effectiveness: Yes.
got to 1600 on ladder fairly easily, does very well in test games
Sample submission https://pokepast.es/5729aec8bd2b4417
Arceus and Pogre based balance team with 2 lead options,
option 1 is an arceus lead which can go into the teams semistall mode,
and after stealing the opponents boosts (arceus walls setup sweepers) you can baton Pass into kyogre or mmy for the more offensive mode,
Option 2 is Leading with mega audino and goes into a more defensive game through the battle as maud is meant to stop hazards from devouring sashes
This team is made mostly by xX__sn3ps__Xx I only had a small part in its creation
Gonna address each of these concerns. It's a lot of ARTICUNO and honestly kinda sloppy since I've tried to not make this much longer than it likely needed to be, and I'm a bit (ticked off at these current samples what is triple yve no progressmaking doing here).
Regarding ARTICUNO, this team was tailor-made around putting ARTICUNO into good use. From testing it FOR LIKE 5 LADDER GAMES, I've personally found it works very fine here. Most of the time it acts similar to NORMAL STAG USERS, but unlike NORMAL STAG USERS its aim is to act a lot more FUNNY. ARTICUNO isn't very bad when given proper support as it can punish plenty of NO GUARDED Pokemon in ways NORMAL STAG USERS cannot otherwise.
Here's some examples of this 252 Atk Articuno U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eternatus-Eternamax: 151-178 (15100 - 17800%) -- guaranteed OHKO
There's possibly plenty more examples to pull from but this is enough, since it covers all of the
Pokemon in the metagame.
For BOLSTERING YOUR EGO, I'd argue it's in favor of the ARTICUNO user, because if you lose, youR OPPONENTS A TRYHARD, but if your opponent loses, there's a pretty decent chance theY HAVE A SKILL ISSUE.
Regarding hard-improofs, Balance falling off has made PIKACHU more difficult to truly justify into ANYTHING imo, as OFFENSE tends to require INNARDS OR PLATES FOR IMPROOFING INSTEAD OF WALLS. For example, you'd need to forego Sunsteel Strike on Slaking, could have to forego dual moldy moves on Mega Mewtwo Y, as well as super effective coverage for Dark-type or Steel-type Pokemon it may struggle against, forego either a lot of coverage or Sunsteel Strike on Mega Mewtwo X, OR JUST USE INNARDS/SASH INSTEAD LMAO. Stuff offensive teams arguably don't like. Teams these days are sticking to either resistances like Mega Scizor, Celesteela, Meloetta (for Photon), or Mega Gyarados AS IF THEY DIDNT DO THIS MORE OFTEN IN THE PAST, or are eitherwise sticking with soft-improofs like Focus Sash Kartana and Mega Mewtwo X WHICH DO BETTER INTO PIKACHU ANYWAYS DUE TO STRAIGHT OHKOING THE GUY.
Additionally, if a hard-improof is around, Chansey is going to be useless for much of the game and the opposing team likely has plenty of ways to let Pikachu recover, as them switching to their improof gives Pikachu a free opportunity to switch out and BE USELESS FOR MOST OF THE GAME. There isn't much of a point in comparing this scenario with Pikachu BECAUSE PIKA LOSES TO ALL THE STUFF CHANSEY DOES ANYWAYS AND MORE.
Regarding PIKACHU as a surprise factor: To be real USERS OF offense teams these days really love ANTI SWEEPERS because opposing hyper offense or offense teams could run sets such as SHELL SMASH OR EVOBOOST ON ANYTHING in order to fully decimate YOUR ENTIRE TEAM. If these Pokemon are set up, they don't have to utilize such extreme moves either in order to accomplish this. Mega Mewtwo X having Shell Smash up threatens MOST TEAMS, leaving OFTEN MORE THAN ONE INNARDS OUT/MGUARD SASH/STRONG PRIORITY/FAST MULTIHIT USER ON MOST TEAMS. PIKACHUS JUST REVENGE KILLED BY THESE, IT AINT SWEEPING TEAMS... THIS GUY IS NOT MAKING ANY MORE PROGRESS THAN A SHELL SMASH SWEEPER AND IT REQUIRES WAY MORE SETUP TO EFFECTIVELY USE
Now for other team members: DEALS DRUGS (toxic ord)
if you want an actually sane argument for why i ranked pikachu in the "mostly univable garbage" tier on my personal vr (below stuff like weavile) its because like i said, its only niche over blobs as an imp user is the ability to pull off a reverse sweep after revenge killing another mon. however, there are so many obstacles to pulling off said sweep it really just isn't worth it. ofc hard improofs stop it, but having 35 hp means a lot more than requiring a speedtie/niche support like tailwind to revenge something-you also can get revenge killed by priority/mguard sash users a lot easier, and you lose to innards users that chansey normally can tank like mmy and lunala. teams in general rely a lot more on stuff like sash, priority, and innards to stop sweeps as opposed to raw bulk so pikachu kinda just runs into too many obstacles for the setup and team support required to make it work. even if mmx can be threatening with innards removed, pikachu doesn't need innards to be removed-oftentimes, an intact sash is all that is needed, which is a problem when this team's only form of hazard setting is a suicide lead mmx that can be antileaded by common mons such as pbond gar, fakespeed slak, and sleep move ng. also pika (and the sample in general) is really weak into stall too but offense/ho is just way more common at the moment
While I am actually willing to see my team on the samples, and for the sake of eyeos, I wanted to remind everyone what a sample team should be like, and I genuinely request a pause in the massive submission of the random bullsht. Disclaimer: I am not part of the council or any organization. I take full responsibility for what I am saying, and if you find sth that seems to be personal, then it probably is. The main purpose of this post is to rage bait and let the actual top players have a new thread to criticize my post and tell us what are actually good sample submissions.
So first, as some of you here might criticize, you have to admit that in Gen 7 pure hackmons, checklist building is a useful way for beginners like me to follow a path to build a good team, and the thing at the very top of your checklist should ALWAYS be impostor eviolite chansey. So STOP SUBMITTING A TEAM OF FULL 6 OUT OF 6 UNPROOFED BULLSHT. AT LEAST GET A SOFT IMPROOF OK?
Second, as a sample team always should be, I kindly request you to make a little bit of analysis on the team, like how you do it in an RMT. And although this part is not necessary, you should probably ask yourself how you can prove that a team is good? Some records on the team will be helpful for everyone to evaluate the consistency of your team. Although I will hardly say so in most cases, a ladder record will be somewhat good proof, as samples are mostly designed for new players, and the main place where they go and find games is the ladder. (counter example: Bird Council)
Third, your team should be a good tool for a new player to get familiar with this meta. That is to say, you shall not have a team with a lot of sets with weak single combat power(e.g. Darmaniten-Zen in clock up flowers, nearly everything in aerobee full pass(full pass shall be a special case if this archetype is actually good), nearly all of the Bird Council, and I'm questioning about the support kart in gold psy terrain ho). And shall be a somewhat good representation of a team type, like a common no guard + huge power + priority offense core, or a psy surge psy spam HO, or a hazard stack spore trap balance, or even an innards spam stall(/HO? What is this classified as ).(counter example: Bird Council) And last but not least, you shall make sure that your team has an overall strong matchup against the random low ladder bullsht, by that I mean 6 ng deos or 5 evoboost or such teams that have a super extreme matchup that I will classify as bad. (counter example: Bird Council)
While I am actually willing to see my team on the samples, and for the sake of eyeos, I wanted to remind everyone what a sample team should be like, and I genuinely request a pause in the massive submission of the random bullsht. Disclaimer: I am not part of the council or any organization. I take full responsibility for what I am saying, and if you find sth that seems to be personal, then it probably is. The main purpose of this post is to rage bait and let the actual top players have a new thread to criticize my post and tell us what are actually good sample submissions.
So first, as some of you here might criticize, you have to admit that in Gen 7 pure hackmons, checklist building is a useful way for beginners like me to follow a path to build a good team, and the thing at the very top of your checklist should ALWAYS be impostor eviolite chansey. So STOP SUBMITTING A TEAM OF FULL 6 OUT OF 6 UNPROOFED BULLSHT. AT LEAST GET A SOFT IMPROOF OK?
Second, as a sample team always should be, I kindly request you to make a little bit of analysis on the team, like how you do it in an RMT. And although this part is not necessary, you should probably ask yourself how you can prove that a team is good? Some records on the team will be helpful for everyone to evaluate the consistency of your team. Although I will hardly say so in most cases, a ladder record will be somewhat good proof, as samples are mostly designed for new players, and the main place where they go and find games is the ladder. (counter example: Bird Council)
Third, your team should be a good tool for a new player to get familiar with this meta. That is to say, you shall not have a team with a lot of sets with weak single combat power(e.g. Darmaniten-Zen in clock up flowers, nearly everything in aerobee full pass(full pass shall be a special case if this archetype is actually good), nearly all of the Bird Council, and I'm questioning about the support kart in gold psy terrain ho). And shall be a somewhat good representation of a team type, like a common no guard + huge power + priority offense core, or a psy surge psy spam HO, or a hazard stack spore trap balance, or even an innards spam stall(/HO? What is this classified as ).(counter example: Bird Council) And last but not least, you shall make sure that your team has an overall strong matchup against the random low ladder bullsht, by that I mean 6 ng deos or 5 evoboost or such teams that have a super extreme matchup that I will classify as bad. (counter example: Bird Council)
I feel like this is directed at me and if it is then no the submissions aren't jokes I genuinely find the teams I submit very good and if I don't give enough of a synopsis then I apologise
ATTENTION USUM PH PLAYERS
Do you SUCK? Can you NEVER BREAK A CERTAIN RATING? Then boy, oh boy do I have the right team for you! (You may have remembered this team from the listed tournament replays)
May 2025
This is when I first started experimenting with STag based teams. The first STag teams I build this month (ish) can be found in my failed teamdump.
Early July 2025
After dropping to a concerning low, I came up with a team that beat random mid ladders most of the time, although it had some flaws. ----- This team took advantage of Psychic Surge's priority blocking effect, making triple Moldy Move Deo-A almost unbeatable. Notably, it lost against PrankHaze, since it couldn't run priority moves itself. Additionally, the Deo-S set wasn't self-improofed, and my team didn't really feel good against PBond MGar.
Mid July 2025
I then made a second version of the team, improofing the Deo-A and addressing the PBond MGar issue using a fast Mega Lopunny set to shut it down. ----- Still, this team couldn't beat PrankHaze, which greatly annoyed me, until
Late July 2025
The third version of the team took a massive turn. ----- Now, instead of using Psysurge MMY+ MG Deo-A, I could use the superior MG Kart, finally giving me an answer to PrankHaze and I would be able to free up an extra teamslot. However, the second Zygod wasn't really pulling its weight. At this point, I was tired of playing STag and felt like the next edit would be the last. And that edit would happen in
August 2025
On this version of the team, I added a second Zygod that would help by allowing me to run SSap on the first one, drastically increasing its longevity. ----- This allowed me to also have two Accupressuring Zygods to sustain tougher Accupressure streaks. I also changed Floral Healing to Heal Pulse, before later realizing that both rounded down in USUM. It doesn't really matter, though, as no one uses Grassy Terrain. After this team, I said farewell to STag and proceeded to build Dual Scarf Offense. But that's not what this is about, isn't it?
October 2025
Two months passed since I last played STag, and after reaching an embarrassing rating barrier, I decided to try my hand one last time. And by some miracle, it worked. I revised the team to be the team at the top of the post. This team was designed to beat every other team imaginable.* So, without further ado, let's dive into the team.
Team Roles
This mon was one of the most important pieces of the team in practice. No Guard? Blissey it. Random garbage that cteams you? Blissey it. Encore and Spectral Thief opened up some windows to nastier Baton Passes, too.
Without this team member, the team would easily be broken by coverage spammers. Deo-S's Choice Scarf Trick insured that none of those darn Ice Beams would get anywhere close to the two towering Zygods. Deo-S also held the albeit controversial role of being the Rocks user of the team, which greatly annoyed me, as Flying types were a bit of a nuisance after Deo-S went down. You can swap Spikes and Rocks with each other if you would like to have a safer experience. I also swapped out Soak for Heal Pulse on this version, as I already had a Soaker in Arceus.
I'm grouping these two together because they basically do the same thing: be unkillable. However, since last version, I added Core Enforcer to the second one to beat those random Magic Bouncers I couldn't beat otherwise. Also, I moved Heal Pulse and Accupressure closer together so that I didn't have to do a full-body workout to get max Accupressure boosts. Again, if you would like to, you could move them closer to the left of the screen so you can more easily click "Skip turn," but it's up to you.
After a long while, I finally realized that I didn't actually need Speed if I was Tricking Choice Scarfs onto my opponents (crazy, right?) and swapped to Arceus. Arceus was there to deal with those annoying Ghost types that couldn't be Shadow Tagged, as well as Flying types who refused to be Arena Trapped, although that was more niche. Arceus was also a decent Improof to Kart if the Sub Zygod was put out of commission. As a bonus, it was the perfect bulky Spiker for the team, as it didn't have a dedicated role, no 4x weakness, and a good switch-in to Moldy Moves.
Kartana was the sweeper of the team (and the only one with more than one form of damage). With Sunsteel, Life Orb, and Magic Guard, it could tear through most common checks. With Bonemerang to kill opposing Magic Guards, Shadow Sneak to beat Bobsican's Prankster MBro (although I never ran into the matchup) and Ice Shard to decimate the somehow still popular Zygarde-Complete, this thing was almost unbeatable if it had +6 Atk and a Sub.
Matchup Spread (best at the top, worst at the bottom)
Good Matchups Pretty much everything :P
Bad Matchups Any team with Magic Bounce Giratina: As someone whose first decent teams featured Magic Bounce Giratina, I can assure you that this guy SUCKS. I played it twice, and even though I won a game, it was still extremely close and ended with half of my team dead and a poisoned Zygod about to take its last breath.
Shed Shell Spam: An archetype I played three times. I lost 2 and won 1. Shed Shell spam was particularly terrible because as long as they wisely chose their switches, there was no way I could win. Imposter was especially an ordeal on these teams.
BONUS
Thanks for reading. Here's a calc extension bonus. Goodbye.
C Rank (Not in order of viability from this point on) Bee Mega Ageist Blade Registeal yo man Bird Mega Rat Alola Bishsharp We Vile Gardenvoirfare Mega I am the Guzzler Artik Uno Frooslass Chair Mega Y Gigatina
F Rank Shedinja Shuckle Burn up Fire type Most WG Electrics
C Rank (Not in order of viability from this point on) Bee Mega Ageist Blade Registeal yo man Bird Mega Rat Alola Bishsharp We Vile Gardenvoirfare Mega I am the Guzzler Artik Uno Frooslass Chair Mega Y Gigatina
F Rank Shedinja Shuckle Burn up Fire type Most WG Electrics
I pretty much agree with this cool VR except 3 things : I think Exca should be higher in B- (yh I'm still an Exca enjoyer) even if it being in B- and not C is pretty cool
The BEEg seems way too low, I'd rank it bottem B Tier, its MG set is cool, it can ohko MMY with FImp after Stealth Rocks (252+ Atk Beedrill-Mega First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 356-420 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock) and TSpikes Absorbing is underrated
I feel MGar could be A+ and Kart too, they do lack set variety tho so idk
I pretty much agree with this cool VR except 3 things : I think Exca should be higher in B- (yh I'm still an Exca enjoyer) even if it being in B- and not C is pretty cool
The BEEg seems way too low, I'd rank it bottem B Tier, its MG set is cool, it can ohko MMY with FImp after Stealth Rocks (252+ Atk Beedrill-Mega First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 356-420 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock) and TSpikes Absorbing is underrated
I feel MGar could be A+ and Kart too, they do lack set variety tho so idk
excadrill is b- or somewhere in c honestly, any slight chip means you no longer ko mewtwos with innards and your typing blows for an innards, idt the draws are worth it enough over other innards mons
ohkoing mmy with fimp after rocks seems like an awkward niche for mguard bee, you have to be ada for this calc to work which loses you on a ton of speed which seems like a pretty major draw for beedrill (you no longer outspeed +speed mmx/gar and anything faster than them), huge power is maybe justifiable though c rank is fair for it
ohkoing mmy with fimp after rocks seems like an awkward niche for mguard bee, you have to be ada for this calc to work which loses you on a ton of speed which seems like a pretty major draw for beedrill (you no longer outspeed +speed mmx/gar and anything faster than them), huge power is maybe justifiable though c rank is fair for it
Blissey (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Gentle Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Whirlwind
- Parting Shot
- Magic Coat
TEAM BUILDING PROCESS :
Uhh nothing complicated really, just wanted to build with a classic FakeSpeed Slaking, so I hoped on my builder and add Slaking to a new team.
As you are aware Ghost types are Immune to Normal (ok, I actually say this for a reason, please don’t leave ;-;) and MGar is the most popular Ghost type, and since I love it I decided to run certainly its worst MU, PBond Scarf MMY. It also gives pretty good Speed control to the team.
As you surely noticed by now, this team is an Hyper Offense, so I'm running the best offensive mon, naming MMX, it’s a classic HP set, I'll dive deeper into it later.
As you see, this team would currently have 2 mons dying to innards blob and the 3rd not hitting them so I need something to beat it. I first thought of running the classic MG Kart but in fine it turned out I had no TSpikes absorber so I decide to go MBee, it has enough attack to get these calcs :
Against Innards Lunala : 252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 0- Def 0 IVs Lunala: 628-740 (131.3 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Beedrill-Mega switching boosted Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0- Def 0 IVs Lunala: 560-660 (117.1 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against Innards Blissey : 252 Atk Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0- Def 0 IVs Blissey: 1360-1602 (190.4 - 224.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Beedrill-Mega switching boosted Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0- Def 0 IVs Blissey: 1037-1220 (145.2 - 170.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against Innards Chansey 252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Pursuit (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0- Def 0 IVs Chansey: 878-1033 (124.7 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Plus MBee is pretty fast, sadly it doesn't have a MoldySTAB.
Since I hate Imposter I'm running the big whale POgre to improof both Mewtwos, MBee and kinda Slak (will be explained later)
And uh, it’s an HO meaning it has Innards Blob, Blissey here cause Imp Blissey exists (even if it shouldn't, that’s so annoying).
WHAT THE TEAM IS WEAK AGAINST :
- The team is kinda weak agains WG SmashCeus (the Taunt FightingJudg MGeist Smash set) but it’s manageable cause Blissey has MCoat to counter Taunt and Mewtwos (can) tank MGeist then do good damage : +2 252+ SpA Arceus Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 316-372 (75.9 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Photon Geyser vs. -1 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 255-300 (57.4 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Arceus Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-X: 358-422 (86 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 334-393 (75.2 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- Like all good HOs, the team struggles a little against the Bullshit of the low ladder because it's complicated to anticipate the sets.
SETS’ EXPLANATIONS :
Slaking @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Extreme Evoboost
- Sunsteel Strike
That’s a classic FakeSpeed Slak set, not much to say about
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Electric Memory
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Sunsteel Strike
- V-create
- Ice Shard
- Multi-Attack
That sets servs as a breaker, Sunsteel is preferred over Photon to OHKO MAud, be careful against MPert tho, because only MMY is capable of doing decent damage quickly
VCreate is a classic nuke button against steel types thinking they can check
Ice Shard help the MRay MU that could be akward after a Smash, it’s a good prio and 2HKO Zygod which is pretty cool.
Finally Multi Elec is used over PFists to improof with POgre and deal with Water Types. Be careful, FCoat MBro is standard and easily tanks it, you'd need MMY Bug Buzz.
This lil' buddy is the fastest thing on earth (if the oppo is not boosted ofc), it will outspeed Scarf 130 Base Speed mons, mainly PBond MGar, and will OHKO it with Photon Geyser. If the opposing MGar is Sash it will be obliterated by PBond (Timid Scarf MGar outspeeds this set but MGeist will never OHKO : 252 SpA Parental Bond Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 344-410 (82.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
Photon is the moldy STAB that kills many things
Searing Shot is cool to deal with Steel mons aware of MMX's VCreate and nukes Sash Karts.
Bug Buzz hits many Dark and Psychic mons resisting/being immune to Photon
Finally Freeze Dry deals cool damzge to Zygod, OHKOs MRay and MSceptile, it alos has this cool calc : 252+ SpA Parental Bond Mewtwo-Mega-Y Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Swampert-Mega: 424-500 (104.9 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(The MPert can’t be +SpD if you're aiming at clean OHKO).
IK THAT BOTH MEWTWOS HAVE FIRE AND ICE MOVES BUT LET ME COOK, THIS TEAM IS GOOD !
It’s time for the great Bee to shine, it’s a classic MG set, I'm running UTurn over Moldy Moves because I won’t often need it, Pursuit is for Innards trap, and 50/50, Spec Thief can save games and defog to keep POgre and Blissey HPs high enough for them to be useful. I already explained why MBee>Kart and already gave really important calcs, go check them if needed.
Here's our favourite improofing sea being, it runs WG to improof and NG MU. Its very good bulk and typing allows POgre to improof both Mewtwos :
252+ SpA Parental Bond Mewtwo-Mega-Y Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre-Primal: 157-185 (38.8 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 135-159 (33.4 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(POgre will tank at least twice the strongest move from both Mewtwos)
It can also tank some Sunsteel from Slak but won’t rly check it since POgre can’t deal damage to Slak, Blissey is preferred as an improof here. Or just don’t switch on Slak while they have an Imposter alive (if you can).
Safety Goggles because I hate Spore
Aromatherapy because I hate Spore AND Glare AND WoW (not the game duh)
Shore Up to keep it healthy, Spec Thief to deal dmg to Mewtwos and help some games (will be shown in the replays), Baton Pass to switch and give SpecThief’s boosts. SpecThief is pretty useful here for these
calcs :
Against PDon : +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Groudon-Primal Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 258-304 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Kyogre-Primal Spectral Thief vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 185-218 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
Against MMX : +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 269-317 (66.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Photon OHKOs, event without boost (252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 405-477 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO) so be careful, some MMX run both Sunsteel and Photon)
+2 252 Atk Kyogre-Primal Spectral Thief vs. -1 252 HP / 252- Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 576-678 (138.4 - 162.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against MMY+2 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre-Primal: 250-295 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Kyogre-Primal Spectral Thief vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 646-762 (155.2 - 183.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also this POGre has 252/30 in Spe so it is fast while being outsped by things like PDon to help stealing there Smash boosts.
I make it fast so it can pass before being taunted or whatever.
Blissey (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Gentle Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Whirlwind
- Parting Shot
- Magic Coat
That’s a classic Blissey Innards set, Whirlwind to remove the oppo, Shore Up to heal, Parting Shot for Pivot and allowing the following mon to be more safe, finally MCoat and Lum Berry to switch on a Sing from NG into MCoat and to help de WGCeus MU.
Nothing more to say bout it.
Why I think this team should be added as a Sample :
- It can easily put pressure on many teams.
- It is easy to use as an HO and has no strange strats or Z-Move that you need to use at the correct time or any important ressource to manage outised of Slak's Evoboost and Blissey and POgre HPs
Thank you very much for reading this far, the replays are available just below, so thanks in advance for your feedback and I hope this will be accepted as a Sample, I know I didn’t peak ladder with this team but recently I was more focused on other tiers and usum challs over ladder.
EDIT : Huge thanks to Spamton to make me think of Freeze Dry to help the MPert MU, I was to dumb to think of it, sadly it makes every current Replay outdated, but it shouldn't change much, I believe ?
Also, once again ty Spamton for pointing small IVs under optimisations
Ah yes, a "Blissey" (Why is my Blissey shaped like a moon?)
Anyway, this looks like a actually good Sample team. Seems to require not much skill to pilot, while being made up by actually good mons unlike some sample teams (Cough Cough Pikachu Cough). As well, the people generally like Beedrill, so a team with a Beedrill is somewhat cool, and, unlike some teams (COUGH COUGH) the slightly off-meta Mon is actually good in the role it is in. I do feel like you might want to put something for Pert somewhere, like changing Ice Beam to Freeze Dry on MMY or something, but other then that, pretty good.
I do feel like you might want to put something for Pert somewhere, like changing Ice Beam to Freeze Dry on MMY or something, but other then that, pretty good.
Yh I didn’t thought of using Freeze Dry, but it would surely help a lot, if I'm mentally doing the calcs right super effective Freeze Dry should be 140 on POgre where STAB Photon is 150 so it should be ok anw.
I'm going to calc things to see if it’s worth using but I rly think it is tysm.
And also ty for the kind answer :)
DEALS DRUGS (toxic ord)
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Pretty much everything :P
Any team with Magic Bounce Giratina: As someone whose first decent teams featured Magic Bounce Giratina, I can assure you that this guy SUCKS. I played it twice, and even though I won a game, it was still extremely close and ended with half of my team dead and a poisoned Zygod about to take its last breath.
Shed Shell Spam: An archetype I played three times. I lost 2 and won 1. Shed Shell spam was particularly terrible because as long as they wisely chose their switches, there was no way I could win. Imposter was especially an ordeal on these teams.
Chansey
Mewtwo-Mega-x
Slaking
Gengar-Mega
Groudon-Primal
Audino-Mega
Kyogre-Primal
Regigigas
Ho-Oh
Slowbro-Mega
Celesteela
Muk-Alola
Ferrothorn
Scizor-Mega
Rayquaza-Mega
Doublade
Aggron-Mega
Steelix-Mega
Meloetta
Oranguru
Gyarados-Mega
Greninja-Ash
Lunala
Sableye-Mega
Banette-Mega
Solgaleo
Kyurem-White
Kyurem-Black
Marowak-Alola
Necrozma-Ultra
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Pheromosa
Hoopa-Unbound
Giratina-Origin
Yveltal
Swampert-Mega
Pikachu
Alakazam-Mega
Metagross-Mega
Dialga
Heatran
Houndoom-Mega
Heracross-Mega
Sceptile-Mega
Lucario-Mega
Darkrai
Zeraora
Umbreon
Electrode
Excadrill
Bee Mega
Ageist Blade
Registeal yo man
Bird Mega
Rat Alola
We Vile
Gardenvoirfare Mega
I am the Guzzler
Artik Uno
Frooslass
Chair Mega Y
Shedinja
Shuckle
Burn up Fire type
Most WG Electrics
