UU Simple Questions Thread

[canasian]

I've noticed a handful of Life Orb Whimsicott's in Grand Slam/other tournament games; are those running more offensive ev spreads or are they keeping the defensive investment and just using the life orb to get certain ko's with Moonblast?

 

[EdgeHead]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of Adamant vs. Jolly on Haxorus?

 

[Mahmudkipz]

I've noticed a handful of Life Orb Whimsicott's in Grand Slam/other tournament games; are those running more offensive ev spreads or are they keeping the defensive investment and just using the life orb to get certain ko's with Moonblast?

It is more of a surprise thing like Specs Florges because Whimsicott is almost always supportive as opposed to offensive. I think they mostly run Max SpA with Max Speed and probly a Modest nature since Whimsicott is so fast anway (and you still outpace base 100s with Modest iirc) and it hits piss weak without a SpA boosting nature, I doubt anyone really calc what KOs they get with Moonblast they just roll with it. It has got interesting offensive options too as it gets high BP moves like Hurricane and Moonblast and can still support the team with Prankster Tailwind/Encore or U-turn for momentum.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of Adamant vs. Jolly on Haxorus?

You ohko Slowbro with Outrage like 56% of the time with +2 Adamant Outrage after rocks but you lose out on outpacing the base 95s which is kinda huge.

Jolly Haxorus ftw

 

[kokoloko]

you miss out on beating scarf heracross, krookodile, and darmanitan, after a DD

you miss out on nidoking, lucario, roserade, heracross, kingdra, krookodile, darmanitan, adamant victini (which shouldnt exist but it does) and other base 85-95 pokemon at nautral speed.

adamant is 10% stronger. stick to jolly.

 

[canasian]

It is more of a surprise thing like Specs Florges because Whimsicott is almost always supportive as opposed to offensive. I think they mostly run Max SpA with Max Speed and probly a Modest nature since Whimsicott is so fast anway (and you still outpace base 100s with Modest iirc) and it hits piss weak without a SpA boosting nature, I doubt anyone really calc what KOs they get with Moonblast they just roll with it. It has got interesting offensive options too as it gets high BP moves like Hurricane and Moonblast and can still support the team with Prankster Tailwind/Encore or U-turn for momentum.

So I actually went ahead and did some research of my own on this topic and decided there's no real reason to run Modest over Timid.
The only notable thing that you kill with Modest but not Timid is Sableye (which is ohko'd 100% of the time after Rocks regardless), and with Timid you outspeed Mienshao and Absol.
It seems like a pretty niche set regardless (on an already fairly niche pokemon), but it was a fun thing to look into.

EDIT: actually it looks like there's a slim chance to ohko 252/0 Alomomola with Modest Giga Drain but I don't see space to run Giga Drain on the set regardless and killing a bad Alomomola set doesn't seem very important anyway.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

So I actually went ahead and did some research of my own on this topic and decided there's no real reason to run Modest over Timid.
The only notable thing that you kill with Modest but not Timid is Sableye (which is ohko'd 100% of the time after Rocks regardless), and with Timid you outspeed Mienshao and Absol.
It seems like a pretty niche set regardless (on an already fairly niche pokemon), but it was a fun thing to look into.

EDIT: actually it looks like there's a slim chance to ohko 252/0 Alomomola with Modest Giga Drain but I don't see space to run Giga Drain on the set regardless and killing a bad Alomomola set doesn't seem very important anyway.

Energy Ball is probly better anyway. Some calcs that Modest gets not Timid

calcs

252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 231-273 (88.5 - 104.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 211-250 (80.8 - 95.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 390-460 (92.8 - 109.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 354-421 (84.2 - 100.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 121-143 (35.4 - 41.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 110-130 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 237-281 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 218-257 (70 - 82.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 250-296 (82.2 - 97.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 229-270 (75.3 - 88.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Infernape: 263-309 (89.7 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Infernape: 237-281 (80.8 - 95.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-H: 94-110 (39 - 45.6%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-H: 86-101 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

But yeah Whimsicott should probly run Timid.

Some interesting calcs that offensive Whimsicott does...

other calcs

252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 155-182 (41.6 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (alright, not too shabby)
252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos: 289-343 (75.2 - 89.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (sad)
252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Houndoom: 172-203 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (sad)
252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 242-286 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (sad)
252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 208-247 (74 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (sad)
252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 234-276 (75 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (OH COME ON)

All in all it seems offensive Whimsicott is rather gimmicky :/ It is super frail too Lucario's Espeed does like around half. Idk if you would want to use it on ladder play.

 

[KM]

offensive whimsicott is the best set there is. i run giga drain / hurricane / moonblast / memento and it's amazing because it's a. a good switch in to hydreigon b. tremendous when paired with set-up sweepers. It's not super strong but it's strong enough and surprising enough to rip holes in teams, especially because people like to switch grass types into Whimsicott and then get fucked over.

at any rate it's far better than the support leech seed set imo. at least with this one you're not completely hc'd by bat

 

[Gr3gory]

When OR/AS congress out, will viability rankings and tiering be reseted?

 

[Moose V]

When OR/AS congress out, will viability rankings and tiering be reseted?

No, because OR/AS will not greatly change the metagame outside giving some 6th gen pokes useful moves (via move tutor) and introducing a few megas. There's no need to throw away all the work done in shaping the tiers/viability rankings for a few extra knock offs or mega sableyes.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

actually i'd say mega absol being able to run knock off + play rough if ORAS brings back the move tutors would be a pretty significant change.

viability rankings will probably undergo a massive shift (because chances are diancie is gonna drop by the next tier shift anyway and with ORAS we're getting her mevo to mess with, and with sableye that's 2 more bouncers, and not to mention mega metagross/sceptile/swampert) but in regard to tiering there shouldn't be too many significant changes.

 

[pipasonze]

What's going to happen with the new mega evolutions introduced in ORAS? Are swampert, sableye and metagross going to stay UU at least until the first tier shift? (I guess if that's the case, their stones will be quickbanned if necessary)

 

[Ununhexium]

What's going to happen with the new mega evolutions introduced in ORAS? Are swampert, sableye and metagross going to stay UU at least until the first tier shift? (I guess if that's the case, their stones will be quickbanned if necessary)

Yes.

 

[kokoloko]

regarding the earlier question about us resetting shit when ORAS comes out:

tiering will not be reset, no matter how much the tier changes. the cool thing about the way we did tiering is that we will be done tiering by then and will be able to deal with /just/ the shit ORAS throws at us. quickbanning shit if we need and unbanning it to test later. good luck to literally every other tier :]

viability rankings might be.

that is all.

 

[wietepiet]

Quick question. I'm trying to make a team of mostly UU (and RU) pokemon but when I checked the tier list I noticed that Mega heracross is on the borderline list.
My question is; what does that mean? Is mega heracross banned from all use or is the borderline list there to make a distinction between heracross in UU and mega heracross in OU?

Thanks in advance.

 

[canasian]

Heracross is legal in UU, but the item Heracronite is banned from the tier and may only be used in OU-or-above games

 

[Quilon]

Regarding Klefki's BL retest and ban, the BL retest record thread says that Klefki was banned with a minority vote. What does this mean and how is it possible?

 

[Patrick1088]

Regarding Klefki's BL retest and ban, the BL retest record thread says that Klefki was banned with a minority vote. What does this mean and how is it possible?

It didnt pass with majority vote. There were enough votes to keep it UU for the time being. If its retested again, well see if anything changes.

 

[KM]

Regarding Klefki's BL retest and ban, the BL retest record thread says that Klefki was banned with a minority vote. What does this mean and how is it possible?

In order for something to stay in UU, it must get a supermajority of the vote (in this case, in a council of (theoretically) 12, 8 or more people must vote UU). Something can be banned with 5 or 6 votes, which is technically not a majority of the vote, but still too many votes to keep it in the tier.

 

[RyanKoopa]

Since it looks like Amoongus is going to rise up to OU soon, what would be a good replacement for it?

 

[canasian]

Depends on what your team used it for, the truth is that it probably can't be 1-for-1 replaced since it was often paired with Slowbro who's also leaving.

If you want another bulky Grass-type pivot you could probably go for Celebi though bug neutrality was a nice perk for Amoonguss and Celebi...um...isn't neutral to bug.
Tangrowth is also a bulky Grass-type with regenerator but it misses out on the fighting resistance.

 

[Sage]

Amoonguss was incredibly unique in what it does. Spore, good typing, Regnerator, and good bulk made it a threat in literally every single tier it's been allowed in. There isn a pokemon that does everything Amoonguss does. Vileplume would be a replacement but no regenerator, worse bulk, and has to use synthesis makes it clear why Vileplume sucks in UU(although it's like the god of NU). So there really isn't anything for Amoonguss imo. Inb4 eviolite Foonguss.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

If you are looking for a Water check that has Regen, Tangrowth is the closest you get.

 

[Mr James Grey]

Is there an analysis for Heracross? I can't find one anywhere.

 

[Ununhexium]

ernesto should be writing it but he hasnt yet

 

[Calloflochie]

Is there an analysis for Heracross? I can't find one anywhere.

There isn't because by usage, Heracross will be leaving the UU tier in the next few weeks when the tier changes happen so there really isn't a point to beginning the writing process of Heracross if it's going to leave anyway.