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Resource VGC 16: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer

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Union0069 said:
QQ: When do the effects of Swift Swim take place. I just played a match where I had Mega Swampert, and Mantine on field, switched Mantine for Kyogre to bring the rain, but Swampert didn't go first (others were Groundon, and non-geo Xerneas). So that tells me SS effects take place before turn starts? To be fair I'm totally new to doubles, and VGC. Also Swampert had mega evolved on a previous turn.
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Turn order is determined before the turn starts (at move selection, basically). Since Swampert wasn't under Rain before the turn started it didn't go first.
 
Carbonific said:
Turn order is determined before the turn starts (at move selection, basically). Since Swampert wasn't under Rain before the turn started it didn't go first.
Click to expand...
Ok, so then if I had Kyogre and Swampert out, then withdrew Kyogre, SS effects would still be in place that turn?
 
Union0069 said:
QQ: When do the effects of Swift Swim take place. I just played a match where I had Mega Swampert, and Mantine on field, switched Mantine for Kyogre to bring the rain, but Swampert didn't go first (others were Groundon, and non-geo Xerneas). So that tells me SS effects take place before turn starts? To be fair I'm totally new to doubles, and VGC. Also Swampert had mega evolved on a previous turn.
Click to expand...
Both the rain and Swift Swim have to be present before the turn starts. So at the beginning of the game if you led Swampert and Kyogre you would not get the speed boost because Swampert didn't have Swift Swim until mega evolution which is after the turn started.
 
with vgc 16 rules allowing legends, specifically primals. is it a 100% necessity to have a primal of your own or at least some form of check to them??

also is zekrom viable in vgc?? if so what roles will it perform.
 
To win the weather war, it is a good idea to bring a primal, as they are some of the best picks in the format. however, i have seen some teams run non primal teams to decent success. Generally you do want to have a primal/mega rayquaza on your team to have a good matchup versus the top 4:
xerneas
primal groudon
primal kyogre
rayquaza

Zekrom isn't one of the more viable legendaries, but it does have its perks. here is a video with some sample zekrom sets
 
One more question: Defensive Giratina-O? Lack of leftovers isn't really that great, but Ground immunity should be kind of useful, amirite?
 
Generally, giratina-o are on the offensive side, but here's a sample set i just made if you want to test it out:

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Atk / 28 Def / 4 SpD / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Force
- Icy Wind / Tailwind / Shadow Sneak
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
  • 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 236 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-O: 216-254 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • Outspeeds Smeargle by 1 point
  • 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Eruption (150 BP) vs. 236 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-O in Harsh Sunshine: 87-103 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  • 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 236 HP / 28 Def Giratina-O: 103-123 (40.3 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Under Gravity)
  • 252 SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 236 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-O in Heavy Rain: 91-108 (35.6 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
However,
  • 4 SpA Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 236 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-O: 320-377 (125.4 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 4 SpA Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina-O: 229-273 (89.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Not great vs rayquaza/xerneas in any case :/

EDIT: this is a sample top cut team that uses giratina-o if you're looking for inspiration:
3rd Place Taiwan - Hung-Wei Lai:
rayquaza-mega.png
giratina-o.png
talonflame.png
ditto.png
liepard.png
smeargle.png


common partners include:
Kyogre, Kangaskhan, Sableye, Gengar, Smeargle, Thundurus, Groudon, Aegislash, Mawile and Liepard
That's a lot of ghosts..
 
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My own personal giratina-o set. I went special so that i can lead off against intimidate users barring scrafty and mawile and still get kos. Idea was to run enough bulk to take a majority of hit in the meta (i dont remember exacty what it was eved for, but it survives certain +2 dazzling gleams from non max sp atk timid xern) and set up tailwind.

I think Ace Emerald can attest to it surviving at life orb spacial rend from palkia, though idk what his spread was.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 28 SpA / 156 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Tailwind
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor
 
There probably is, but you could try putting intimidate on your team in order not to waste EVs, so landorus-t and salamence are great for checking groudon
 
Theres probably more, but giratina-a can:

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Giratina: 177-208 (35.1 - 41.2%) -- 72% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sorry for the double post, im doing this on my phone
 
i run 252 jolly mega meta with
protect
Meto mash
ice punch
eq/zen headbutt

found good success using it, more then running an adamant one. tough claw more then compensates for non-offense nature
 
From the Thundurus analysis
[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Protect
item: Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid (0 IVs in Atk)
evs: i need help for this

-_-
Do Thundurus run any bulk? If so how much and to live what?
 
Take an Azelfie said:
From the Thundurus analysis
[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Protect
item: Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid (0 IVs in Atk)
evs: i need help for this

-_-
Do Thundurus run any bulk? If so how much and to live what?
Click to expand...

thundurus is frail, so i don't run any more then 4 hp investment into it. rest go into speed(to be faster or speed tie other pranksters) and Sp atk to make that thunderbolt count.

these are just my 2 pokedollars
other better and experienced players can maybe tell you more.
 
Here are some sample offensive/defensive sets
Im not quite sure what EVs to run for a bulky timid thundurus yet

Offensive

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 220 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Protect / Swagger / HP [Ice]

HP stat reaches 159, the nearest life orb number (10n-1)

Defensive

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 4 SpA / 180 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Protect / Swagger / HP [Ice]

- Survives Primal Groudon's eruption
- Survives Kangaskhan's double-edge
- Has a good chance of surviving a draco meteor from 252 SpA mega rayquaza
 
Draconid997 said:
Here are some sample offensive/defensive sets
Im not quite sure what EVs to run for a bulky timid thundurus yet

Offensive

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 220 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Protect / Swagger / HP [Ice]

HP stat reaches 159, the nearest life orb number (10n-1)

Defensive

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 4 SpA / 180 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Protect / Swagger / HP [Ice]

- Survives Primal Groudon's eruption
- Survives Kangaskhan's double-edge
- Has a good chance of surviving a draco meteor from 252 SpA mega rayquaza
Click to expand...
Thanks for the spreads a lot especially the defensive one
 
Is the "standard 6" team (or something close to it with Groduon/Xerneas) really the best team in this format? It keeps winning all the major events...
 
Misdreavus said:
Is the "standard 6" team (or something close to it with Groduon/Xerneas) really the best team in this format? It keeps winning all the major events...
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No, there are a lot of variety in teams. PDon + Xerneas is and always will be pretty consistent though especially depending on how you can go around building it like it can be mixed room or dedicated Xerneas set-up with redirectors and stuff
 
Speaking of standard 6...

1. Is physical Groudon typically Adamant with minimal to no Speed investment, or what?
2. Which is generally the better ability for Smeargle: Own Tempo or Moody?
 
1. most groudon that are not paired with TR are jolly max speed because everyone else runs jolly max speed ~_~
2. definitely moody, the potential for the speed accuracy or evasion boosts can cheese a game that you had no business winning otherwise
 
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