Gen 6 Victim of the Week - ORAS Edition (Week 14 - 3 Attacks Mewtwo-Mega-X)

[ApplepieFTW]

Reserving Adamant mence
Edit: Actually looked at the PDon set and realized it was Double Dance instead of offensive rocks.
Reserving Grassy instead

Edit2: Done!
Counter:

Arceus @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Timid nature
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar / Stone Edge / Perish Song

To be frank, Arceus-Grass is an absolutely terrible counter, or even check, to an un-scouted Primal Groudon. This particular Primal Groudon is countered by Arceus-Grass though, due to its coverage move being neutral and very weak against Grassy, Grassy resisting its primary STAB, and Grass Knot 2HKOing this Primal Groudon always. Be warned though, if Groudon carries Fire Punch or Overheat, Grassy is OHKOed. Make sure the Primal Groudon in question does not carry a Fire move! I can't stress this enough.

GKing the heaviest mon

Grassy v Groudon:
- 0 SpA Meadow Plate Arceus-Grass Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 198-234 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Groudon v Grassy:
- 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake (yes this is 120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 118-139 (26.6 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
- 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 131-155 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 14% chance to 3HKO

"Other" Groudon v Grassy:
- 0- SpA Groudon Overheat vs. 248 HP / 160 SpD Arceus-Grass in Sun: 404-476 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
- 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass in Sun: 444-524 (100.2 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ Atk Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 105-124 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- 89.1% chance to 4HKO (lol)

why not run those spdef ev's in phys def to take stone edges better? would help it do even better

 

[Inspirited]

why not run those spdef ev's in phys def to take stone edges better? would help it do even better

You could, bit I like the ability to tank boosted special hits alongside Roar or Perish Song. Its nice for Calm Mind boosters and the niche as ever Timid Geoxern.

 

[Seru]

Reserving Lugia as a check.

Lugia takes like 25-30% with Multiscale to a non-boosted Primal Groudon Stone Edge, he has no chance when Groudon already stupped a S. Dance and when Lugia is without Multiscale, and even when Groudon is not +2 attack, Lugia can suffer on it's hand considering Stone Edge +1 Crit ratio.

Edit: oh well, and considering a Bold 252 Def Lugia.

 

[haxiom]

Latias
Hard Check

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 HP / 120 SpA / 176 Spe*
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor

*from the WIP analysis, so by extension this could also be considered to be WIP

Latias is a pretty solid check to Primal Groudon. Levitate grants it an essential immunity to Ground-type attacks, while it is neutral to Stone Edge. The only thing it really fears from Primal Groudon in general is Dragon Claw, which the DD set lacks. Latias can also hit it back with a great amount of power, thanks to the reintroduction of the Soul Dew item, while also having reliable recovery in the form of the move Roost. Here are some calculations to show Latias's ability to check Primal Groudon.

Calculations

**All calculations have been adjusted to represent new stats and moves. The +1 stats of Latias simulate the Soul Dew.**


Primal Groudon vs. Latias

Groudon Earthquake [Precipice Blades] vs. Levitate Latias: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Latias: 168-198 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Latias: 168-198 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Latias vs. Primal Groudon

+1 120 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 277-327 (74.6 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 120 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 277-327 (74.6 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

In short, Primal Groudon can semi-consistently 2HKO Latias, while Latias can easily 2HKO back with Draco Meteor, or spam Roost until Stone Edge misses. In a 1v1 scenario Latias easily can defeat Primal Groudon.


The reason I don't list Latias as a counter though, is because it cannot consistently switch in and beat a healthy Primal Groudon. There are four switch-in scenarios possible.

Possible Switch-In Scenarios

1) Latias switches in on a Swords Dance. Latias outspeeds Primal Groudon and uses Draco Meteor, most likely not getting the OHKO barring decent prior damage. If Stealth Rocks are on Latias's side, Primal Groudon retaliates with a +2 Stone Edge, OHKO'ing Latias with the exception of a miss. If Stealth Rocks are not up, it is a roll which is highly favorable for Primal Groudon.
2) Latias switches in on a Rock Polish. Primal Groudon outspeeds Latias and 2HKO's with Stone Edge, before Latias can 2HKO back with Draco Meteor, barring any hax.
3) Latias switches in on a Stone Edge. Latias can Draco Meteor and get off solid damage before most likely falling to the subsequent Stone Edge, or it can Roost spam hoping for a miss, but Primal Groudon is more likely to come out on top of this scenario.
4) Latias switches in on a Precipice Blades. It is now a 1v1 situation which Latias wins.

tl;dr~~ Latias is a great hard check for Primal Groudon, however it struggles to consistently counter Primal Groudon while switching in.


EDIT: man the hide tags aren't centered so this looks so ugly​

 

[Dilwar]

Counter: Based Mon Torterra

Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Synthesis
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Wood Hammer / Stone Edge

The first two moves are what really matters in this set, others are just your choice. Torterra, being one of the few mons that resist Edgequake counters this set with ease. With STAB Earthquake and a decent Attack stat (at least by NU standards) it is able to 2HKO this Primal Groudon set. More importantly, it has access to reliable recovery in Synthesis so it can switch in on Groudon throughout the match.

56 Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 164-194 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And here is Groudon against Torterra:

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 80-94 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

And here is the calc to show that even if Groudon SDs on the switch-in, Torterra wins:

+2 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 159-188 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Since even at +2 it's a 3HKO, and Torterra only needs 2 turns to finish Groudon, this Torterra proves itself a counter.

EDIT: I want to say on that last calc, yes Torterra can switch in and still win after Stealth Rock damage since it's carrying Leftovers. Also changed the calc on Torterra's EQ, as xDesch pointed out I forgot to adjust PDon's Defese stat. But it seems all Torterra needs is the tiniest bit of prior damage, as you can see from Stealth Rock.

 

[xDesch]

I don't think you had the right base stats on Primal Groudon (180 atk and 160 def). This gives you some slightly unsatisfying calcs:

56 Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 164-194 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- 14.5% chance to 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 191-225 (50.1 - 59%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I'd suggest mixing around with your EV spread and see if you can make some improvments

 

[Vengeance417]

What the fuck am I doing?...

Claydol
Classification: Counter (NOT a counter if Pdon's running Fire Punch at +2)

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 SpA
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Rapid Spin
- Reflect/Filler
- Light Screen/Filler


This set is to specifically counter the OP's Double Dance set of PB and SE as attacking moves, as this set loses to Fire Punch variants. So technically, this is a check, but it straight up counters Pdon sets running only Precipice Blades and Stone Edge.

Thanks to Claydol's ability in Levitate, he is immune to Pdon's STAB Precipice Blades, and isn't even 2HKO'd by Stone Edge at +2. The 108 SpA EVs are here to guarantee a 2HKO on Pdon using Earth Power, thanks to Pdon's weaker SpDef stat and Fire typing. This set can also spin away hazards, and Claydol himself is a great spinner thanks to resisting SR and being immune to spikes and sticky web. The last two slots are essentially filler, and should be decided based on what your team needs, but I highly recommend dual screens, or at least Reflect verses this Pdon set. Not running Light Clay coupled with screens seems weird, but with no reliable recovery, Claydol needs the passive Leftovers recovery if it wants any form of staying power. If dual screens isn't what you need, you can set up your own Stealth Rocks if you wish, or you can run the annoying Toxic/Protect combo to wear down the opponent while gaining more leftovers recovery.

Calcs:

108 SpA Claydol Earth Power vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 186-218 (50.1 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Claydol: 58-68 (17.9 - 21%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Claydol: 116-136 (35.9 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Claydol through Reflect: 58-68 (17.9 - 21%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Shitegotreal]

Gengar (M) @ Jaboca Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Def / 76 SpA
Bold Nature
- Disable
- Infestation
- Shadow Ball
- Clear Smog Switch Gengar in on Primal Groudon. Even if he crits with Stone Edge with Stealth Rock down, Gengar will still live, outspeed. Disable his only attacking move and 3HKO it with Shadow Ball. If he sets up on you, you Clear Smog his boosts away and wait for his Stone Edge so you can Disable it. Disable lasts for 4 turns, just enough to guarantee a win. Shadow Ball can 2HKO with prior damage like Stealth Rock, Clear Smog and/or chip damage from his berry. Jaboca Berry hurts Primal Groudon for one time; to be exact Groudon loses 1/8 of it's health to that. Infestation is just a filler, but it brings some weird utility regardless.



Calculations: 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Gengar: 151-178 (49.3 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO (Defensive Calculations)

76 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 127-150 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Offensive Calculations).

Although you're supposed to concentrate your nominated Pokémon purely on countering Primal Groudon, this Pokémon deals with several more threats to make itself even more impressive:
- Landorus-Therian
- Arceus-Ground
- Klefki ( usually against Mega Gengar, it can Thunder Wave or use Spikes depending on whether it needs that 1 layer of Spikes at all costs or needs to Thunder Wave it before it Taunts so another Pokémon of the team can easily knock out Mega Gengar afterwards. Once it's Taunted it can use Play Rough, while Mega Gengar keeps on using Shadow Ball until that is dead. Against this Gengar set, it's completely helpless. Because it hasn't got an option here in Play Rough since it would get Disabled it's ass out. And since you would use Infestation first to trap it, it hasn't got anywhere to go either (besides using Thunder Wave or Spikes repeatedly). Anyway, if you manage to eliminate Klefki the earlier with this surprising set, the better.
- Gliscor

EDIT: Completely forgot the Disable mechanics. Well, since you can only Disable 1 move, I guess I should correct that. However, it still doesn't change the fact that you leave Primal Groudon helpless with no move to damage you after Stone Edge is disabled and you Infestate him aswell to stack up on some residual damage along Gengar damaging it with Shadow Ball repeatedly.

 

[Shitegotreal]

Here's another one:

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Reflect
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch Basically, you switch it in, if Primal Groudon Swords Dances you have the option to Reflect and take the Stone Edge like a boss. If it Stone Edges without using Swords Dance first you can Reflect either way again, just to make sure some retarded critical hit doesn't fuck you up. The turn after you Pain Split and you gain a lot of your HP back, while you remove a lot of Primal Groudon's health in the meantime. Toxic is just for a usable move to wear down Primal Groudon slowly after you have Reflected, Pain Splitted. You just repeat this until Primal Groudon dies due to Toxic damage. Here's an important thing to remember though: Unlike the Gengar set I posted this can't trap Primal Groudon, so your opponent has the choice of switching out Primal Groudon. And this is the reason why we have our 4th move: Volt Switch. It not only anticipates a switch, but it gives the rest of your team useful momentum. Now we go unto the EVs explanation: 84 Speed with a Timid Nature allows Rotom-W to be faster than Primal Groudon and thus being able to Reflect or else it would get destroyed by a +2 boosted Stone Edge. The rest of the EVs are just to fill up the remaining. And at last I'll show some calculations again:


+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 176 Def Rotom-W through Reflect: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 176 Def Rotom-W: 124-146 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. So always remember, first Reflect, then comes the rest!

 

[Vengeance417]

Here's another one:

View attachment 31257


Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Reflect
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch Basically, you switch it in, if Primal Groudon Swords Dances you have the option to Reflect and take the Stone Edge like a boss. If it Stone Edges without using Swords Dance first you can Reflect either way again, just to make sure some retarded critical hit doesn't fuck you up. The turn after you Pain Split and you gain a lot of your HP back, while you remove a lot of Primal Groudon's health in the meantime. Toxic is just for a usable move to wear down Primal Groudon slowly after you have Reflected, Pain Splitted. You just repeat this until Primal Groudon dies due to Toxic damage. Here's an important thing to remember though: Unlike the Gengar set I posted this can't trap Primal Groudon, so your opponent has the choice of switching out Primal Groudon. And this is the reason why we have our 4th move: Volt Switch. It not only anticipates a switch, but it gives the rest of your team useful momentum. Now we go unto the EVs explanation: 84 Speed with a Timid Nature allows Rotom-W to be faster than Primal Groudon and thus being able to Reflect or else it would get destroyed by a +2 boosted Stone Edge. The rest of the EVs are just to fill up the remaining. And at last I'll show some calculations again:


+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 176 Def Rotom-W through Reflect: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 176 Def Rotom-W: 124-146 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. So always remember, first Reflect, then comes the rest!

5. Everybody is limited to TWO entries. After posting your first entry, wait half of the week(sunday), and if nobody has posted what you wanted to post, go ahead and post it.

 

[Jibaku]

(everything bolded is either important, noteworthy or my personal preference)

Flygon @ BrightPowder / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 44 HP / 152 Atk / 252 Def / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Substitute
- U-Turn

This Flygon is specifically designed to have more than a 100% chance to win against that specific Primal Groudon set. It outspeeds him by 1 point, which is a huge advantage, because if Groudon wants to outspeed, he has to waste an entire turn to do so. This Flygon also has this 100% chance to 2HKO, which means in a bad situation (which only happens against TAS) he can quickly outspeed and get the kill with only 2 hits. Because of Levitate, we only need to focus about Groudon's Stone Edge, which has its perks, like only having 8 PP, and only having a 80% chance to hit. Relevant calc's:

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Flygon on a critical hit: 110-130 (36.5 - 43.1%)
+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Flygon: 147-173 (48.8 - 57.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Flygon on a critical hit: 221-260 (73.4 - 86.3%)

152+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 186-218 (50.1 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Stealth Rock is the only entry hazard that can make a difference here, but that difference is pretty much unnoticeable. Another great thing about this set is that it can check the Groudon multiple times every match. He will either force it out, or kill it. He can use U-Turn for momentum, which also has great utility in general. But the most noteworthy thing about this thing, is that he can check/counter Groudon both offensively (like previously explained) and defensively (in a way). That is because of the rather unique combination of Substitute, Roost and BrightPowder (and his Typing + Ability, ofc). The reduced accuracy caused by his item makes Groudon's Stone Edge a shitty move with only a 72% chance of hitting, which can be abused to its fullest with sub and Roost. Sub can also just be used to stall out the PP of Stone Edge and it also works well when if he retreats.

The 4th move (and to some extent the 3rd one) can be swapped out with a variety of other moves. While the one listed above was picked to fare the best against that Groudon, other moves can be used, and only makes a really small change overall. Defog, Toxic, Double Team, Tailwind and even Sand Tomb (to trap either Groudon or a switch-in) can be used and still get some satisfying results.

There is another EV spread that also works on this poke, which gives more defense, but reduces the chance to 2HKO Groudon to "only" 95.25%. The bulk you gain is more than the loss of attack, but it reduces the chance to win against that Groudon to "only" around 99.9%. That EV spread is: EVs: 252 Atk / 196 Def / 60 Spe with Impish Nature. Leftovers can also be used instead of BrightPowder obviously. It is more viable in general, but inferior in this specific case.

If the that Groudon were to carry another coverage move, like Dragon Claw, Then Flygon is pretty much dead. He can live one hit, but not 2 hits, a crit or one +2 hit. It can miss, tho. With a Haban Berry equipped, he will beat the Groudon if he sets up Swords Dance and does not crit on the following turn. 2 regular Dragon Claws will Kill regardless

Let's push it to the limit shall we.

Flygon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpA / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Roost
- Toxic
- Defog

Ok the last two slots are filler so they don't even matter. Go run Sub if you want since PDon can't break it with unboosted Stone Edge

Earth Power solidly 2HKOes PDon.

+ 2 PDon Stone Edge tops at 44% so you can even Roost stall that and force PDon to a second Swords Dance to have any hope of breaking through it.
+ 4 crit Stone Edge will fail to OHKO a full health Flygon.

 

[xDesch]

Huh, pretty sure I tested that, but it seems like I must have done something wrong there. Thanks for that "correction" :P

 

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

I'm a real uber! (Tangrowth) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 152 HP / 232 Def / 124 SpA
Bold Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Growth
- Sleep Powder
- Payback

At full health, this Tangrowth counters the given Groudon set nearly 100% of the time. Chlorophyll lets it outspeed, meaning if Groudon wants to outspeed it has to waste a turn going for Rock Polish. Tangrowth uses its first turn going for Growth and the second killing with Leaf Storm:

+2 124 SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 372-438 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This means Groudon only gets two actions, which it really isn't in a position to do much with:

252+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 152 HP / 232+ Def Tangrowth: 86-102 (22.6 - 26.9%) -- 33% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 152 HP / 232+ Def Tangrowth: 96-114 (25.3 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Of course countering a fire-less PrimalDon with a Chlorophyll mon is incredibly easy and can be pulled off by most Chlorophyll mons using either Specs or subseed shenanigans. I decided to push Tangrowth to its limits and pumped up its Defense to see what it could muster against Fire Punch Primaldon while still getting the KO:

252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 152 HP / 232+ Def Tangrowth in Sun: 326-386 (86 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Without SR up you have a 7/8 chance of living +0 Fire Punch and triggering your Weakness Policy, letting you respond by nuking the dinosaur with +2 Leaf Storm. This obviously falters if Tangrowth is softened up at all first, if SR is up, if Groudon goes for pretty much any other move on turn one, if Groudon packs Lava Plume or Fire Blast, if Groudon runs 252 Speed (you can sacrifice something to put 72 Speed on Tangrowth to beat Jolly Groudon), or if your opponent is not an idiot and switches out to one of the many things in Ubers that can handle +2 Tangrowth while taking your Desolate Land away at the same time.

 

[haxiom]

I'm a real uber! (Tangrowth) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 152 HP / 232 Def / 124 SpA
Bold Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Growth
- Sleep Powder
- Payback

At full health, this Tangrowth counters the given Groudon set nearly 100% of the time. Chlorophyll lets it outspeed, meaning if Groudon wants to outspeed it has to waste a turn going for Rock Polish. Tangrowth uses its first turn going for Growth and the second killing with Leaf Storm:

+2 124 SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 372-438 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This means Groudon only gets two actions, which it really isn't in a position to do much with:

252+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 152 HP / 232+ Def Tangrowth: 86-102 (22.6 - 26.9%) -- 33% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 152 HP / 232+ Def Tangrowth: 96-114 (25.3 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Of course countering a fire-less PrimalDon with a Chlorophyll mon is incredibly easy and can be pulled off by most Chlorophyll mons using either Specs or subseed shenanigans. I decided to push Tangrowth to its limits and pumped up its Defense to see what it could muster against Fire Punch Primaldon while still getting the KO:

252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 152 HP / 232+ Def Tangrowth in Sun: 326-386 (86 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Without SR up you have a 7/8 chance of living +0 Fire Punch and triggering your Weakness Policy, letting you respond by nuking the dinosaur with +2 Leaf Storm. This obviously falters if Tangrowth is softened up at all first, if SR is up, if Groudon goes for pretty much any other move on turn one, if Groudon packs Lava Plume or Fire Blast, if Groudon runs 252 Speed (you can sacrifice something to put 72 Speed on Tangrowth to beat Jolly Groudon), or if your opponent is not an idiot and switches out to one of the many things in Ubers that can handle +2 Tangrowth while taking your Desolate Land away at the same time.

Actually in order to be a counter you have to be able to switch in and of pdon SDs on the switch he 2hkos you

e: mm forgot about that

 

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

Actually in order to be a counter you have to be able to switch in and of pdon SDs on the switch he 2hkos you

Does heavy sunlight not activate Chlorophyll? Tangrowth is faster than the OP's set (136x2 > 250) and finishes in two turns first as Growth gives +2 during sunlight. (It's still a crap mon but it does counter that set once.)

e: meant to quote, reposting; it's alright

 

[PoweredByRevenge]

Reserving Bronzong as a counter.

Shoutout to BlueJ for suggesting the use of Bronzong :]

EDIT:

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Atk / 248 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Iron Defense
- Gyro Ball / Stealth Rock

I chose this pokemon as a counter for this DD Primal Groudon set since it is able to switch in to both of PrimalDon's attacks because of the immunity to ground moves and the fact that it resists Stone Edge. The strategy with this Bronzong set is to switch in to PDon as it sets up or attacks and use Iron Defense until it reaches plus 6 defense, after this PDon pretty much can not touch Bronzong with this covergage (be sure to scout for the PDon coverage before doing this since FPunch or Overheat will hurt a lot), after Bronzong sets up, it has an ~100% chance to 4HKO PDon with EQ just by having 12 Atk EVs, while PDon does little damage back with Stone Edge. Toxic is there to hurt thing that Bronzong can't touch like most walls, and the last slot depends on the team, use Rocks if you need them or Gyro if you want to hit thing like Xerneas.

Important Calculations:
(All stats are correct)

12 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 90-106 (24.2 - 28.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Bronzong: 50-59 (14.8 - 17.5%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Bronzong: 99-117 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Dilwar]

I don't think you had the right base stats on Primal Groudon (180 atk and 160 def). This gives you some slightly unsatisfying calcs:

56 Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 164-194 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- 14.5% chance to 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 191-225 (50.1 - 59%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I'd suggest mixing around with your EV spread and see if you can make some improvments

I double checked on the calc at Groudon at +2, it is indeed a 3HKO. Are you sure you got the right stats on it?

Just did it again with 180 Attack (as I originally did): +2 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 159-188 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Not sure if it's worth pointing out but just in case, Torterra has 95HP and 105 Defense.

You're right on that first calc though, it's not a gauranteed 2HKO, I forgot to change its Defense stat. Regardless, all Torterra needs is pretty much any prior damage (looking at you, Stealth Rock).

EDIT: Never mind you were right, I forgot to change Earthquake's BP

 

[PoweredByRevenge]

I just calced and i think you forgot to change the base power of Earthquake to Precipice Blades. Here's the correct calculation:

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 191-225 (50.1 - 59%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Dilwar]

I just calced and i think you forgot to change the base power of Earthquake to Precipice Blades. Here's the correct calculation:

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 191-225 (50.1 - 59%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Oh crap I did :/, LOL I thought it was running EQ. My bad

 

[xDesch]

PomMan and Vengeance417 , Since I can't post new sets of your pokes, I'll just show you how to optimise your chosen pokes to get the best counters to this Groudon

#1 Counter

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 136 HP / 200 Def / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stone Edge
- Imprison
- Earth Power
- Toxic

Outspeeds, can disable Groudon's only harming attacking move. Can either Toxic stall or kill with Earth Power.
Worst case scenario is tanking this 1 time: 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 136 HP / 200 Def Claydol on a critical hit: 92-108 (31.1 - 36.6%)

#2 Counter

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Def / 132 Spe
Impish Nature
- Imprison
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

OR

Landorus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
- Imprison
- Stone Edge
- Earth Power

Same strategy as above. Both outspeeds, but -T has Intimidate with less bulk, and the regular version has higher defense, but no Intimidate. This means that Landorus-T is better is Groudon does not check and regular Landorus is better if there is no crit.

Worst case scenario without a crit: -1 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 124 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 79-94 (22.5 - 26.8%)
Worst case scenario with a crit: 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Landorus on a critical hit: 178-210 (48.1 - 56.7%)

Edit: CB Groudon will always win

Groudon @ Choice Band
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 104 Atk / 112 Def / 140 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Filler x3

He outspeeds, can live a crit from Preciples Blade and will always OHKO in return

252+ Atk Primal Groudon "Earthquake" vs. 152 HP / 112+ Def Groudon on a critical hit: 259-306 (68.3 - 80.7%)

104 Atk Choice Band Groudon Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 372-438 (100.2 - 118%)

 

[dinotrek27]

Guys I think we should try to use more Ubers viable pokemon when considering checks and counters for Pdon, and IMO also consider common pokes like MegaMence or MegaGar which are commonly paired with Pdon

 

[yohoE]

you guys can now post a second set if you want to :]

 

[Halcyon.]

Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind / Defog / Grass Knot
- Recover

Latios is a great offensive check to Primal Groudon. It can switch in on Earthquake or Rock Polish and demolish it with a Soul-Dew-boosted Draco Meteor. Unfortunately, ther reason it's a check and not a counter is that if Groudon Swords Dances on the switch, it can possibly survive a Draco with no prior damage and KO back with +2 Stone Edge. However, it has to hit Stone Edge, AND get the small chance to survive Draco before that is even possible. Both of these are null if the Groudon has even taken Stealth Rock damage.

 

[PoweredByRevenge]

I did think about posting about weezing before but after i ran some calcs and stuff i really didn't like the fact that Pdon can sd as you switch in, and then click stone edge as you haze and then it can just kill you with the next stone edge.

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 194-229 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 97-115 (29 - 34.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Also, if Pdon does not sd as you switch in it cant wear you down untill you are forced to rest, and it can 1hko you with a +4 stone edge or ensure a ohko at +6 if it predicts you to rest or something.

+4 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 291-343 (87.1 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

These calcs are the reason i decided not to do weezing even though it can be interesting.

 

[mertyville]

This is the first time I am taking part of victim of the week (hopefully I will meet the expectations of the thread)

Check

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Spe / 100 SpD
Bold Nature
- Whirlwind / Taunt / Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Defog
- Counter

Why I choose this Pokemon?
Skarmory is one of the most reliable Pokemon to switch into physical Attackers, thanks to its great defensive Typing and access to reliable recovery.
Ground Immunity comes handy to switch into Primal Groudon's main STAB and it takes unboosted Stone Edges pretty well.
Skarmory has a good ability in Sturdy, that allows it to take (unless Stealth Rocks are up) the worst possible hit from any Pokemon at least once.

Why did I choose this set?
With those EVs in Defense, Skarmory is guarantied to 1HKO +2 Primal Groudon while it is at full health.

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Skarmory: 186-219 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 197, 199, 201, 203, 205, 208, 210, 212, 214, 216, 219)

To kill the victim of the week, it has to take at least 186 damage to fullfill this role.

An unboosted Primal Groudon is not a threat to Skarmory:

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Skarmory: 93-110 (27.8 - 32.9%) -- 89.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 110)

It can just phase Primal Groudon out (thats why I slashed Whirlwind first over Taunt and Stealth Rock and because Mega Gengar) or just Roost stall Stone Edge out or lure the opponent to boost up to +2.