Gen 6 Victim of the Week - ORAS Edition

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Arceus-Psychic(Check)
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Arceus-Psychic @ Mind Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Payback
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

While Arceus-Psychic is a pretty mediocre pokemon in general it is quite a solid deoxys-attack check due to its ability to shrug off all it's hits and ohko back with payback.

Calcs:

252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Psychic: 178-211 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Arceus-Psychic: 135-161 (30.4 - 36.3%) -- 51.3% chance to 3HKO

0- Atk Arceus-Psychic Payback (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-A: 468-552 (194.1 - 229%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Yveltal as a Check
yveltal.gif

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 132 HP / 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Rash / Mild Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave / Focus Blast / Taunt / U-turn

Before I begin, I'd like to say that being a noob in Uber, I didn't know which spread and nature to choose from the SmogDex and the calculator, so I randomly chose one. Anyway, Yveltal is immune to Deoxys-A's STAB and isn't OHKOed any of its moves bar Ice Beam after SR (however, Yveltal is KOed by Ice Beam + Extreme Speed if Deoxys-A carries these two moves for some reason). In return, Yveltal destroys Extreme Speed-less Deoxys-A with Sucker Punch (or any other move).
68 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Extreme Speed vs. 24 HP / 0- Def Yveltal: 152-179 (38 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 333-393 (83.4 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yveltal Oblivion Wing vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys-A: 651-768 (270.1 - 318.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
48 Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-A: 1217-1435 (504.9 - 595.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys-A: 1742-2051 (722.8 - 851%) -- guaranteed OHKO (clearly high rolls)
 
Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone! I'm glad to see new players joining and take part in this thread. Additionally we also got some fruitful conversation going on. Anyways, I've been thinking about this for a while, but when I will make nigty pastebins about each week's victim and checks/counters, should I include as many as possible, as in more than the one's in the Hall of Fame? I think this would be better, as checks would be easier to access for others. I'd like some of yours opinion on the matter. Anyways, the new victim is one that has is not seen as often, and is also used more defensively due to its poor speed, but can be used offensively in certain situations. This week's victim is Mega-Mawile!

mawile-mega.gif

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Atk
Adamant Nature:
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Other moves: Baton Pass, Pain Split, Fire Fang, Rock Slide (?)
You can also assume it has more attack investment if you want to, but it's not necessary.
 
Primal Groudon as a Hard Check

groudon-primal.gif

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume / Stone Edge
- Roar / Thuder Wave

Due to its great typing and excellent bulk, PDon is only 3HKOed by +16 Atk M-Mawile after a SD without SR (with 252 EVs and an Adamant nature, M-Mawile 2HKOes after SR at +2 with Sucker Punch). In return, PDon easily OHKOes it with either Precipice Blades or Lava Plume.
16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 78-92 (19.3 - 22.7%) -- 4.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 155-183 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 96-113 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 191-225 (47.2 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 356-422 (117.4 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Mega Mawile in Harsh Sunshine: 306-360 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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heres something sorta unique. mega aggron checks it nicely.

aggron-mega.gif

Aggron-Mega (M) @ Aggronite
Ability: Filter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Avalanche
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake/Fire Punch
- Low Kick

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Aggron: 127-150 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Aggron: 106-126 (30.8 - 36.6%) -- 64.2% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Mega Aggron Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 160-190 (52.8 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
I think it would be better to just list all of them so that people could use it as an easy reference :o

Mawile can also have moves like Toxic, Foul Play, Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Sub+Focus Punch, Resttalk. Anyway, to check a stellar mon requires another stellar mon!

arceus-grass.gif

Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Knot
- Will-O-Wisp
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Many fat Arceus can stop Mawile but the reason I pick Arceus-Grass is that it can stop a few potential Baton Pass receivers such as Kyogre, which can get a free hit if you switch into Groudon or Arceus-Ground instead. Grassceus doesn't like Toxic and isn't much vs the Sub variety, but if that's the moveset then you could switch into another mon accordingly.

Calc: Play Rough does more than Fire Fang
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 237-280 (53.4 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Reserving Ferrothorn.

EDIT:

Ferrothorn

ferrothorn.gif

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes
- Protect

Ferrothorn is a pretty solid check to most Mega Mawile bar Fire Fang variants. Set is pretty standard, Mawile doesn't do much to you and you can stall it out with Leech Seed + Protect + Iron Barbs + Gyro Ball. You could probably get outplayed by lucky/good reads by your opponent using Swords Dance on Protect but Ferrothorn is a pretty solid answer for Mega Mawile.

16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 80-94 (22.7 - 26.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 89-105 (25.2 - 29.8%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 107-126 (30.3 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 159-187 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 178-210 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 212-250 (60.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (85 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 73-87 (24 - 28.7%) -- 97.2% chance to 4HKO
 
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Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Roost
- Substitute

As long as Stealth Rock is off the field, Ho-oh doesn't have anything to fear from Mega Mawile and can either OHKO it with Sacred Fire or heal up with Roost. Substitute is a good option to scout switch-ins and avoid Sucker Punch mindgames.

16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 123-145 (29.6 - 34.9%) -- 15.7% chance to 3HKO
16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 147-173 (35.4 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 374-445 (123.4 - 146.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Arceus-Ghost (Check)
arceus-ghost (1).png

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 116 HP / 140 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Ghostceus can check Mawile quite comfortably because it has access to will-o-wisp and mawile struggles a lot when it is burned. Ghostceus doesn't find it difficult to switch-in against mawile and after switching-in, it can just burn it and win by recover / judgment.
 
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well might as well post a shit mon to deal with a shit mon:

Arceus Fire(Hard Check)

493-fire.png


Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Thunder

This mon's really bad and shouldnt be used at all but it deals with mawile very easily due to resisting its stabs and not taking much damage from sucker punch.

252+ SpA Flame Plate Arceus-Fire Overheat vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Mega Mawile: 434-512 (143.2 - 168.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 85-101 (19.7 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO
16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 96-114 (22.2 - 26.4%) -- 14.1% chance to 4HKO
16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 114-135 (26.4 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
 
DracoMaster Dab said:
well might as well post a shit mon to deal with a shit mon:

Arceus Fire(Hard Check)

493-fire.png


Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Thunder

This mon's really bad and shouldnt be used at all but it deals with mawile very easily due to resisting its stabs and not taking much damage from sucker punch.

252+ SpA Flame Plate Arceus-Fire Overheat vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Mega Mawile: 434-512 (143.2 - 168.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 85-101 (19.7 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO
16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 96-114 (22.2 - 26.4%) -- 14.1% chance to 4HKO
16+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fire: 114-135 (26.4 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Click to expand...

Is this even a thing in Ubers?
 
Yeah, I understand the point you are making, Sweep. I guess an apology is in place - as I know the pokes I have chosen are not of the best caliber. However, as the time goes by, fewer and fewer threats remain, and I can't keep up with all those high tiered 'mons that are more exiting and need to resort to worse pokes, like in this case. There is sadly quite few interesting pokes left all the way down to B- and I'm hesitant to bring out most of them. There's a lot of deffensive pokes and/or pokes that do a bad job at sweeping/cleaning. However, I'll try to get the best pokes for this thread for as long as I can, before there's nothing much left...

But with all that said and out aside, we can go into the next week. I have updated the Archive and even the title of this thread and we're ready to move on. I wasn't sure if this is the kind of poke you'd check/counter the normal way, but I guess we can treat it slightly differently from the others. This time I want a poke that can not only switch into this and beat it 1 on 1, but to hinder this 'mon in doing it's job properly or putting the opponent in a horrible position. This week's victim is Mega-Gengar!
gengar-mega.gif

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Sludge Bomb
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect
- Perish Song
- Substitute

Others: Disable, Hex, Will-O-Wisp, Reflect Type, Rest, Hypnosis

Now, why I justify highlighting this poke, other than it being high up on the viability rank: This 'mons primary job is to trap key defensive mon's on the other's side and force a sweep. But to do this, it needs to safely Mega-Evolve, which means you have a chance to intercept him with another poke of yours. And it is at this crucial point this comes into play. This is when I want you to come up with a poke that can stop Mega-Gengar. I guess we're trying to find Pursuit Trappers here, but if you can come up with anything else, then go for it. Good luck, I hope this is better!

Also, vote for next week's victim here: http://strawpoll.me/4747860 (You can vote on more than 1)!
 
Primal-groudon (Hard Check)
PGroudon_ORAS.gif

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 256 SpD / 8 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave

Primal-groudon is a solid check to Mega-Gengar thanks to its solid special bulk. Primal-groudon doesn't find it hard to switch-in vs Mega-Gengar, none of Mega-Gengar's moves can 2HKO, where as Primal-groudon can OHKO Mega-Gengar with a single Precipice Blades. Moveset and EVs are standard.
 
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reserving based lord spiritomb

Edit: Nominating Assault Vest Spiritomb as a check

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Spiritomb @ Assault Vest
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch
- Foul Play
- Pursuit

This set can tank 3 hits from gengar and either ohko with pursuit if it switches out or kill it with pursuit and shadow sneak or it can force 50/50s with pursuit and sucker punch vs gengar's dbond.This is quite a mediocre mon due to mewtwo and gar not being as common or as hard to check as before but it deals with gengar exceedingly well.




252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 212 HP / 44 SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 96-114 (32.6 - 38.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock


252+ Atk Spiritomb Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 272-324 (103.8 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if it switches out)

252+ Atk Spiritomb Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 138-164 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Spiritomb Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 138-164 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 272-324 (103.8 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Mega Scizor as a Hard Check (would probably be a counter if HP Fire wasn't a thing)

scizor-mega.gif

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Atk / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Pursuit
- U-turn

M-Scizor has great bulk, a nice typing and multiple ways to deal with M-Gengar. To start off, it doesn't get 2HKOed by M-Gengar without SR (unless it has HP Fire) ans has Roost to stay healthy throughout the match. Adding to that, it possesses two useful moves that can screw up M-Gengar's strategy in Bullet Punch and Pursuit. Bullet Punch is nice to revenge kill M-Gengar when it has just under 50% HP and will hit it before it uses Destiny Bond. Pursuit is used when you predict Gengar (pre-Mega or Mega) is going to switch out and will deal a great amount of damage if it indeed switches out (it might even OHKO M-Gengar if you're lucky enough!). Finally, U-turn is a nice tool to grab momentum and to escape M-Gengar's Shadow Tag if it uses Perish Song in tandem with Protect / Disable / other shenanigans.
252 SpA Mega Gengar Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 132-156 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (11.7% chance to 2HKO after SR)
252 SpA Mega Gengar Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 268-316 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

60+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 127-151 (48.4 - 57.6%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed 2HKO after SR)
60+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 170-202 (64.8 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
60+ Atk Mega Scizor Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 226-268 (86.2 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO (93.8% chance to OHKO after SR)
 
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giratina-origin.gif

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 Atk / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Force

Survives anything, even a Shadow Ball and OHKOes back with Shadow Force or priority Shadow Sneak if Gengar has prior damage (or Rocks is up). Also, cannot be trapped by Shadow Tag so it can run away safely if needed.
 
Ho-Oh (a.k.a. everybody's hero bird) as a check.

hooh.gif

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Roost
- Substitute

Though not boasting any resistances against Mega Gengar's STABs, Ho-Oh has great special bulk which can help it take on Mega Gengar as long as Stealth Rock is off the field. Though this isn't much popular a set anymore, I believe this to be the most useful in dealing with Mega Gengar because CB variants are prone to Destiny Bond attempts. First off, since most Mega Gengar users expect your Ho-Oh to be CB, they'll most likely click on Destiny Bond, which gives you a free Substitute. They'll either try to keep on DBonding to assure you get KOed or try to break the Sub with attacks or take you down with Taunt, so act accordingly and play with it well. If they try DBonding, keep Roosting; if they try to use Taunt or an attack, then go ahead and pat yourself in the back as you now get a fainted Mega Gengar. This is best tried if you don't reveal the LO yet, but if they do know and try to get you Taunted, click on an attack and take down Mega Gengar. Again, not the best of checks but it does it quite well. Mindgames are mindgames, after all. CB Ho-Oh is nice too since it can take an attack or two, but then again DBond attempts are risky.

PS Can we write another check for Mega Gengar or any other 'mon in general if we already did one?
 
Gareth de Voir said:
PS Can we write another check for Mega Gengar or any other 'mon in general if we already did one?
Click to expand...

After a new victim has been chosen, everyone can submit 1 check/counter on the 3 first days. After those 3 days, you can submit more if you want to. So yeah, you can submit more checks if you so wish.
 
steelphoenix said:
ok so im gonna actually try and help you

Regular Gengar isn't viable in Ubers and your thought process for dealing with it makes little sense.

Let's pretend it is viable for a second;

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 272-324 (103.8 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

this is a guaranteed KO anyway. Why would you waste a turn clicking Destiny Bond and enable it to switch out when you could just straight up kill it?

But yeah regular Gengar is rly rly bad. It's walled and killed or outsped and killed by numerous common mons in the tier. Yveltal, Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, any Arceus form, Ho-Oh, Dialga, Zekrom, and more pkmn are capable of switching in on this set and killing it. Focus Sash is also a bad item in general because it's utterly useless when Stealth Rock, a very common battle condition, is up. Your Gengar isn't capable of handling opposing Mega Gengar at all when the Focus Sash is broken, and it usually will be. I mean I guess you beat it if you're somehow 1 on 1 vs it and your sash is intact (think to yourself how often this is ever actually gonna happen; even if you bring this in on Mega Gengar after something else dies, what stops the opponent from just switching their Gengar out of the obvious "check"? It's not like your own Gengar set is gonna be doing any damage to the switch-in). Other than this specific scenario, you won't beat it ever, and the teamslot you're using for this is utterly useless outside of the occasional successful Destiny Bond gimmick. Just don't bother with this nichemon.
Click to expand...
Read the end, where it says you could straight up kill it. And it's not like non-Ubers Pokemon aren't in Ubers...look at Klefki and Ditto, they are all over the place...

And you could switch Gengar out and revenge kill something with low health later...considering it is still fast.
 
Ok, enough discussion about that Sash-Gengar, as it is neither beats most variants of Mega-Gengar when switching in on it, and performs, generally speaking, bad in ubers. Otherwise, we've got some very good nominations. As I thought, it would be tricky to victimize Mega-Gengar in this thread, as he works different than most other offensive 'mons, and is why some generally good checks were not chosen to be recorded in the archive. But with that being said, we are ready to move onto the next week, and this time I let you guys vote on the poke you wanted to see, so to few's surprise, this week's victim is...
giratina-origin.gif

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: ???
?? Nature
- Shadow Force
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Magic Coat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Outrage

Others: HP Fire, Destiny Bond, Aqua Tail, Substitue, Shadow Ball, Shadow Claw, Rest, etc.
 
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