you should do dialga next ;]
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Gen 6 Victim of the Week - ORAS Edition
- Thread starter xDesch
- Start date
- Status
Glad to see so many suggestions already! There are just some few things I'd like to clear up first. Our definition of checks and counters in this game does in fact not include when being "haxed", but I think it is important to assume that Shaymin will decrease your stats with Seed Flare and at least make you flinch once, because the chances are way higher than the regular "hax" one might encounter elsewhere. I'd say, everything that has a more than 50% chance of happening is not hax, and should be included at least once. You should also consider what happens if you encounter the SubSeed variant more in detail, compared to only assume he uses attacks on you, when he obviously try to set up Seeds and sub stall you and eventually go for either flinch hax or his strongest move, and after that you'll give a sort of detailed description as of how your check beats Shaymin and how safe it is to use to beat Shamyin. Note that if you are faster, a lot of this is not very relevant.
Next up is Soul Dew mechanics. Soul Dew ≠ A Calm Mind boost. This is something many just think because the Soul Dew grants you a 50% boost in both SpD and SpA on the Latis, which is in fact the same boost 1 Calm Mind would give. BUT, when you start doing more than 1 Calm Mind, you stats doesn't continue to boost with 50%, but the boost from Soul Dew still does. After 1 CM, you'll go from a 1.0 boost to a 1.5 boost (50% more), from there it it gets to 2.0 (which 33% more) and then to 2.5 (which is 25% more)... se the pattern? The Calm Mind boost gets smaller each time, but the Soul Dew boost is universal, it will ALWAYS boost your SpD and SpA with 50%. A Lati w/ Soul Dew after 1 Calm Mind will have a 2.25 damage multiplier because it is a 50% boost from a CM + the universal 50% from the Soul Dew, which is significantly better than the +2 CM which only gives a damage multiplier of 2. In the example of Latias after getting her stats lowered by Seed Flare, it is incorrect to assume that she only is at -1 because of Soul Dew.
TL;DR (about Soul Dew): When calcing stuff like that, give the a Assault Vest when calcing defensive capabilities and use Choice Specs when doing offensive ones, that will always be correct, if you combine it with the stats that should be lowered.
I wasn't sure if I should include HP Fire or not, but I can see HP Rock being more useful (even tho none of those would be worse than Healing Wish team support/synergy-wise), so I'll put it there instead of HP Fire and mention Healing Wish. Also, I was thinking about doing Dialga this week, but delayed it because I wasn't entirely sure what set he should have; LO 4 attacks Dialga, Standard Dialga with Toxic + SR that beats the common defoggers, a mix of both, or both at the same time? (Thinking about doing both at the same time, but I'd be glad to get some thoughts on this).
Next up is Soul Dew mechanics. Soul Dew ≠ A Calm Mind boost. This is something many just think because the Soul Dew grants you a 50% boost in both SpD and SpA on the Latis, which is in fact the same boost 1 Calm Mind would give. BUT, when you start doing more than 1 Calm Mind, you stats doesn't continue to boost with 50%, but the boost from Soul Dew still does. After 1 CM, you'll go from a 1.0 boost to a 1.5 boost (50% more), from there it it gets to 2.0 (which 33% more) and then to 2.5 (which is 25% more)... se the pattern? The Calm Mind boost gets smaller each time, but the Soul Dew boost is universal, it will ALWAYS boost your SpD and SpA with 50%. A Lati w/ Soul Dew after 1 Calm Mind will have a 2.25 damage multiplier because it is a 50% boost from a CM + the universal 50% from the Soul Dew, which is significantly better than the +2 CM which only gives a damage multiplier of 2. In the example of Latias after getting her stats lowered by Seed Flare, it is incorrect to assume that she only is at -1 because of Soul Dew.
TL;DR (about Soul Dew): When calcing stuff like that, give the a Assault Vest when calcing defensive capabilities and use Choice Specs when doing offensive ones, that will always be correct, if you combine it with the stats that should be lowered.
I wasn't sure if I should include HP Fire or not, but I can see HP Rock being more useful (even tho none of those would be worse than Healing Wish team support/synergy-wise), so I'll put it there instead of HP Fire and mention Healing Wish. Also, I was thinking about doing Dialga this week, but delayed it because I wasn't entirely sure what set he should have; LO 4 attacks Dialga, Standard Dialga with Toxic + SR that beats the common defoggers, a mix of both, or both at the same time? (Thinking about doing both at the same time, but I'd be glad to get some thoughts on this).
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seed flare air slash hp rock healing wish is probably the best set in practice, but for this project hp rock only hits ho-oh and healing wish isn't useful, so I would either go sf/as/hp rock/earth power because hp fire is almost a worse earth power. if you want subseed too you can go sf/as/earth power OR substitute/leech seed. that's how I look at it anyway
e: oh yes that's basically exactly what you have, I guess I didn't make clear that I agree with it!
e: oh yes that's basically exactly what you have, I guess I didn't make clear that I agree with it!
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Isn't that what I currently have, tho? I think in practise, you'll have STABs + subseed or Healing Wish combined with either Earth power or HP Rock. But if less I am misunderstanding something, I think what you wrote is what I have on the set.
how about everyone stops telling him how to run his thread and actually contributes to it :P
if you disagree with a set posted, or want to suggest a pokemon for future weeks, i feel it'd be better to either vm/pm him, instead of shitting up the thread.
amg hypocrite you just posted and shitted up the thread xD
if you disagree with a set posted, or want to suggest a pokemon for future weeks, i feel it'd be better to either vm/pm him, instead of shitting up the thread.
amg hypocrite you just posted and shitted up the thread xD
yeah I agree ^, he asked for feedback (if needed) this time so that's why I posted!
Heatran as a counter
Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Spd / 8 Spe
Calm Natur
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Toxic
- Lava Plume
Heatran win against Shaymin-S in any condition. Shaymis-S can't do much against Heatran.
252 SpA Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 31-37 (8 - 9.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Shaymin-S Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 40-48 (10.3 - 12.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin-S: 272-324 (79.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Spd / 8 Spe
Calm Natur
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Toxic
- Lava Plume
Heatran win against Shaymin-S in any condition. Shaymis-S can't do much against Heatran.
252 SpA Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 31-37 (8 - 9.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Shaymin-S Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 40-48 (10.3 - 12.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin-S: 272-324 (79.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
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Oh, no! It's Heatran! No!
First of all, Shaymin commonly carries Earth Power, which does severe damage to specially defensive Heatran (94% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock). Even if Shaymin is a Substitute / Leech Seed variant, they can drain a significant portion of Heatran's HP by simply stalling it with Leech Seed, so long they use Substitute as Heatran switches in. Or, you know, the Shaymin user can switch to Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, or one of the other devastating Pokemon in ORAS that gets an almost free switch on this Pokemon.
A slight drawback to specially defensive Heatran in the ORAS metagame is that most Geomancy Xerneas run either Focus Blast or HP Ground for coverage. Also, Choice Band Ho-Oh (something Heatran should be checking on paper) does 45%~ with Brave Bird. Arceus-Ground is everywhere, Arceus-Normal and Mega Salamence usually run Earthquake for coverage, and Heatran cannot do anything vs. stall teams.
Although Heatran can check Latias, so can Wormadam-S.
Your post triggered me :(
First of all, Shaymin commonly carries Earth Power, which does severe damage to specially defensive Heatran (94% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock). Even if Shaymin is a Substitute / Leech Seed variant, they can drain a significant portion of Heatran's HP by simply stalling it with Leech Seed, so long they use Substitute as Heatran switches in. Or, you know, the Shaymin user can switch to Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, or one of the other devastating Pokemon in ORAS that gets an almost free switch on this Pokemon.
A slight drawback to specially defensive Heatran in the ORAS metagame is that most Geomancy Xerneas run either Focus Blast or HP Ground for coverage. Also, Choice Band Ho-Oh (something Heatran should be checking on paper) does 45%~ with Brave Bird. Arceus-Ground is everywhere, Arceus-Normal and Mega Salamence usually run Earthquake for coverage, and Heatran cannot do anything vs. stall teams.
Although Heatran can check Latias, so can Wormadam-S.
Your post triggered me :(
Ah, Shit!
I forgot about Earth Power. :[
I forgot about Earth Power. :[
Thanks for all the suggestions and discussion this week. Soul Dew mechanics, 60%=100%, coverage and how much SubSeed could mess with other checks was all interesting things that were brought up. Well, a new week, a new victim. It may not come much of a surprise now, as someone wanted this poke for this week, but I have decided to try something new, nonetheless. This week's victim is Dialga:
Dialga @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Shuca Berry / Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: ???
??? Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Rest
- Roar
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
Ok, this set looks messed up (and yes, it is in fact messed up), but let me give an explanation first. This is kind of a mix of all sort of things (that is at least slightly viable) for a Dialga to have, so I guess we could say that this is how a Dialga looks like in the teampreview; you won't know its moves, nature or EVs. So I think this can be a great way to express just how different a poke can be, and how dangerous it can be to make certain assumptions when checking something and how important the surprise factor is in this game. I obviously want some opinions on the way of showing the victim like this, and if I should continue doing it like this, or if this is a little too weird. As for checking this thing, just take as many combinations of the above set you can think of. The more of them you beat, the better. Have fun!
Dialga @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Shuca Berry / Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: ???
??? Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Rest
- Roar
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
Ok, this set looks messed up (and yes, it is in fact messed up), but let me give an explanation first. This is kind of a mix of all sort of things (that is at least slightly viable) for a Dialga to have, so I guess we could say that this is how a Dialga looks like in the teampreview; you won't know its moves, nature or EVs. So I think this can be a great way to express just how different a poke can be, and how dangerous it can be to make certain assumptions when checking something and how important the surprise factor is in this game. I obviously want some opinions on the way of showing the victim like this, and if I should continue doing it like this, or if this is a little too weird. As for checking this thing, just take as many combinations of the above set you can think of. The more of them you beat, the better. Have fun!
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Replace Adamant Orb with Shuca Berry, easily the most commonly seen Dialga. You can assume a Modest nature at all times as well. While I'm not sure how viable it is in terms of a "victim of the week" format, Roar in the moves options wouldn't hurt either.Thanks for all the suggestions and discussion this week. Soul Dew mechanics, 60%=100%, coverage and how much SubSeed could mess with other checks was all interesting things that were brought up. Well, a new week, a new victim. It may not come much of a surprise now, as someone wanted this poke for this week, but I have decided to try something new, nonetheless. This week's victim is Dialga:
Dialga @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Adamant Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: ???
??? Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Rest
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
- (Other moves?)
Ok, this set looks messed up (and yes, it is in fact messed up), but let me give an explanation first. This is kind of a mix of all sort of things (that is at least slightly viable) for a Dialga to have, so I guess we could say that this is how a Dialga looks like in the teampreview; you won't know its moves, nature or EVs. So I think this can be a great way to express just how different a poke can be, and how dangerous it can be to make certain assumptions when checking something and how important the surprise factor is in this game. I obviously want some opinions on the way of showing the victim like this, and if I should continue doing it like this, or if this is a little too weird. As for checking this thing, just take as many combinations of the above set you can think of. The more of them you beat, the better. Have fun!
Other than that though it's all good n_n
Darkceus as a Counter
Arceus @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Recover
- Refresh
Even though Darkceus doesn't resist any move from Dialga, He can't be 2HKOed by the time lord (scarfed variants has a great chance to 2HKO Him with Draco Meteor after SR, but it absolutely needs SR for the 2HKO). Furthermore, Roar-less support variants are completely helpless when facing Darkceus as He'll Calm Mind and Refresh its way onto utter and total domination.
Arceus @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Recover
- Refresh
Even though Darkceus doesn't resist any move from Dialga, He can't be 2HKOed by the time lord (scarfed variants has a great chance to 2HKO Him with Draco Meteor after SR, but it absolutely needs SR for the 2HKO). Furthermore, Roar-less support variants are completely helpless when facing Darkceus as He'll Calm Mind and Refresh its way onto utter and total domination.
0 SpA Dialga Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 96-114 (21.6 - 25.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 105-124 (23.6 - 27.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 169-201 (38 - 45.2%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 0 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 85-102 (19.1 - 22.9%) -- 5.8% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 109-129 (27.1 - 32%) -- 39.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 217-256 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 433-511 (107.7 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 105-124 (23.6 - 27.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 169-201 (38 - 45.2%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 0 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 85-102 (19.1 - 22.9%) -- 5.8% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 109-129 (27.1 - 32%) -- 39.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 217-256 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 433-511 (107.7 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 162-192 (36.4 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 177-211 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Recover and being faster doesn't make it a 2HKO)
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 289-341 (65 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 144-172 (32.4 - 38.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (again, Recover and being faster doesn't make it a 2HKO)
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 151-178 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 226-267 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 376-444 (93.5 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guranteed OHKO after LO recoil)
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 177-211 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Recover and being faster doesn't make it a 2HKO)
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 289-341 (65 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 144-172 (32.4 - 38.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (again, Recover and being faster doesn't make it a 2HKO)
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 151-178 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 226-267 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 376-444 (93.5 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guranteed OHKO after LO recoil)
252+ SpA Dialga Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 125-148 (28.1 - 33.3%) -- 96% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 136-162 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 222-262 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 111-132 (25 - 29.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock (great chance to 2HKO after SR, but without SR, it becomes a 3HKO)
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 151-178 (44.1 - 52%) -- 13.7% chance to 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 226-267 (66 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 376-444 (109.9 - 129.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 136-162 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 222-262 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 111-132 (25 - 29.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock (great chance to 2HKO after SR, but without SR, it becomes a 3HKO)
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 151-178 (44.1 - 52%) -- 13.7% chance to 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 226-267 (66 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 376-444 (109.9 - 129.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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Mega Blaziken as a Check
Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Protect
- Low Kick / High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
While Blaziken can't take a hit from Dialga, it can easily return the favor with Low Kick or High Jump Kick. This particular set checks everything but Timid Scarf Dialga, and if that set is feared Blaziken can run Jolly instead to outpace it at +1. The only two moves relevant for Dialga are Protect and Fighting STAB, as at +1 Mega Blaziken will outspeed Dialga as long as it's not Timid Scarf. While Low Kick is better than High Jump Kick virtually all the time, 252/252+ Dialga can survive Low Kick even after rocks. High Jump Kick can OHKO this Dialga, and so gets a mention.
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 320-378 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (12.5% chance to OHKO without Stealth Rock)
The other moves are the standards, Fire STAB and Stone Edge to smack Ho-Oh and MegaMence. If you don't want to waste your Mega slot, LO base Blaziken hits harder, actually being able to OHKO the bulkiest possible variant with Low Kick after rocks, but in return gets outsped and killed by all scarf Dialga.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 335-398 (82.9 - 98.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Protect
- Low Kick / High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
While Blaziken can't take a hit from Dialga, it can easily return the favor with Low Kick or High Jump Kick. This particular set checks everything but Timid Scarf Dialga, and if that set is feared Blaziken can run Jolly instead to outpace it at +1. The only two moves relevant for Dialga are Protect and Fighting STAB, as at +1 Mega Blaziken will outspeed Dialga as long as it's not Timid Scarf. While Low Kick is better than High Jump Kick virtually all the time, 252/252+ Dialga can survive Low Kick even after rocks. High Jump Kick can OHKO this Dialga, and so gets a mention.
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 320-378 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (12.5% chance to OHKO without Stealth Rock)
The other moves are the standards, Fire STAB and Stone Edge to smack Ho-Oh and MegaMence. If you don't want to waste your Mega slot, LO base Blaziken hits harder, actually being able to OHKO the bulkiest possible variant with Low Kick after rocks, but in return gets outsped and killed by all scarf Dialga.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 335-398 (82.9 - 98.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
If you're afraid of a Timid Scarf then Jolly Blaziken can be run, and does not need HJK. While Dialga can theoretically run 252 Def to possibly avoid the OHKO without rocks, it loses enough power that Blaziken can be a soft counter.
252 Atk Mega Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Dialga: 320-378 (93.8 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blaziken: 240-283 (79.4 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Blaziken Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Dialga: 320-378 (93.8 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blaziken: 240-283 (79.4 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 36 SpD / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Recover
- Defog
- Refresh / Ice Beam / Toxic
It beats all the Dialga sets, Defog keeps the Stealth Rock away. It also beats Groudon and Salamence. The extra SpD is both for Dialga and Primal Groudon with Lava Plume/Overheat.
mega tyranitar as a check.
Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Payback
- Low Kick
- Stone Edge
vs spdef dialga
8 SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 104-126 (25.7 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Mega Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 226-268 (56 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs physically defensive dialga
8 SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 104-126 (25.7 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Mega Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 170-200 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs offensive
252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 134-162 (33.1 - 40%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Mega Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 226-268 (66.2 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Payback
- Low Kick
- Stone Edge
vs spdef dialga
8 SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 104-126 (25.7 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Mega Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 226-268 (56 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs physically defensive dialga
8 SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 104-126 (25.7 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Mega Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 170-200 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs offensive
252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 134-162 (33.1 - 40%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Mega Tyranitar Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 226-268 (66.2 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
vs Offensive variants
As long as Dialga doesn't have Thunder, Ho-oh doesn't need to worry about anything it does as LO Draco Meteor fails to 2HKO Ho-oh while Ho-oh easily OHKOes use back with Earthquake. Even if it is the Shuca Berry / Choice Scarf variant, Ho-oh still manages to beat Dialga 1 v 1 as long as there is no Thunder. Then, it can simply abuse Regenerator to heal up.
vs Defensive variants
Dialga can't even touch Ho-oh with this as the best thing it can do is Toxic while Ho-oh easily 2HKOes back with Earthquake. Ho-oh also doesn't really care about Toxic since it can replenish health with Regenerator.
NOTE: Ho-oh can simply Sacred Fire to go for the 2HKO on any Dialga but Pressure is a pain to deal with, especially when SF only has 8 PP.
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
vs Offensive variants
As long as Dialga doesn't have Thunder, Ho-oh doesn't need to worry about anything it does as LO Draco Meteor fails to 2HKO Ho-oh while Ho-oh easily OHKOes use back with Earthquake. Even if it is the Shuca Berry / Choice Scarf variant, Ho-oh still manages to beat Dialga 1 v 1 as long as there is no Thunder. Then, it can simply abuse Regenerator to heal up.
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 222-263 (53.4 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
208+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 298-352 (87.3 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 171-202 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Dialga Thunder vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 194-230 (46.7 - 55.4%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO
208+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 223-264 (65.3 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
208+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 298-352 (87.3 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 171-202 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Dialga Thunder vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 194-230 (46.7 - 55.4%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO
208+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 223-264 (65.3 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs Defensive variants
Dialga can't even touch Ho-oh with this as the best thing it can do is Toxic while Ho-oh easily 2HKOes back with Earthquake. Ho-oh also doesn't really care about Toxic since it can replenish health with Regenerator.
8 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 133-157 (32 - 37.8%) -- possible 7HKO
208+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 298-352 (73.9 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
208+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 298-352 (73.9 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
NOTE: Ho-oh can simply Sacred Fire to go for the 2HKO on any Dialga but Pressure is a pain to deal with, especially when SF only has 8 PP.
It might or might not be worth mentioning, but I'm going to throw this out there:
Dialga has base 120 attack with a BP 120 physical Stab and can also set Trick Room.
Therefor, I feel like assuming a "standard" nature, ev spread, or move set could be very hazardous. Scouting is a must when ever going up against this monster.
Dialga has base 120 attack with a BP 120 physical Stab and can also set Trick Room.
Therefor, I feel like assuming a "standard" nature, ev spread, or move set could be very hazardous. Scouting is a must when ever going up against this monster.
Arceus-ghost you can counter dat rite?
Thanks for all the suggestions! I have not only updated the OP, but I'm also working on making it better, as some thing went wrong when it was transferred, but I will try to make it better and more organized in the duration of this week! Anyways, we've had quite the heavy hitters lately, which has made it hard to find checks and counters for them, so I thought I would try to find something less used, but still dangerous enough to be recognised as an offensive powerhouse. This week's victim is Swords Dance Excadrill in Sand!
Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
For next week, you can vote for Arceus-Ghost or Deoxys-Attack. Have fun!
Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
For next week, you can vote for Arceus-Ghost or Deoxys-Attack. Have fun!
Giratina-O as a Hard Check
Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 Atk / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Force
Giratina-O can switch into anything from Excadrill and can survive one hit if it switches into a SD. In return, Giratina-O OHKOes it with Shadow Force. It also has Dragon Tail to phaze the mole away if it becomes greedy with its SDs. Apart from the listed moves above, Giratina-O can also use Earthquake instead of Shadow Force to 2HKO with an Earthquake + Shadow Sneak combination (Earthquake can OHKO after little prior damage, but if it doesn't, then Shadow Sneak seals the deal). On top of that, it also has access to Will-O-Wisp to cripple Excadrill beyond repair (unless some cleric does its job). There's also an alternative spread of 148 HP / 100 Atk / 248 Def / 12 Spe which works well with Earthquake, is used to 2HKO Mewtwo with Shadow Sneak and is still great at checking Excadrill as Earthquake + Shadow Sneak KOes it without any problem. One last thing before the calcs: Giratina-O is immune to both Excadrill's Earthquake and Rapid Spin. Pretty neat indeed.
Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 Atk / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Force
Giratina-O can switch into anything from Excadrill and can survive one hit if it switches into a SD. In return, Giratina-O OHKOes it with Shadow Force. It also has Dragon Tail to phaze the mole away if it becomes greedy with its SDs. Apart from the listed moves above, Giratina-O can also use Earthquake instead of Shadow Force to 2HKO with an Earthquake + Shadow Sneak combination (Earthquake can OHKO after little prior damage, but if it doesn't, then Shadow Sneak seals the deal). On top of that, it also has access to Will-O-Wisp to cripple Excadrill beyond repair (unless some cleric does its job). There's also an alternative spread of 148 HP / 100 Atk / 248 Def / 12 Spe which works well with Earthquake, is used to 2HKO Mewtwo with Shadow Sneak and is still great at checking Excadrill as Earthquake + Shadow Sneak KOes it without any problem. One last thing before the calcs: Giratina-O is immune to both Excadrill's Earthquake and Rapid Spin. Pretty neat indeed.
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 88-104 (19.9 - 23.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 140-165 (31.7 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 277-328 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 88-104 (18.4 - 21.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 140-165 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 277-328 (57.9 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 140-165 (31.7 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 277-328 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 88-104 (18.4 - 21.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 140-165 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 277-328 (57.9 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 95-113 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 153-181 (34.6 - 41%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 304-359 (68.9 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 95-113 (19.8 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 153-181 (32 - 37.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 304-359 (63.5 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 153-181 (34.6 - 41%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 304-359 (68.9 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 95-113 (19.8 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 153-181 (32 - 37.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O: 304-359 (63.5 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
248+ Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-O Shadow Force vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 367-433 (101.3 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
100+ Atk Giratina-O Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 306-360 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100+ Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-O Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 109-130 (30.1 - 35.9%) -- 42.1% chance to 3HKO
100+ Atk Giratina-O Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 306-360 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100+ Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-O Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 109-130 (30.1 - 35.9%) -- 42.1% chance to 3HKO
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Skarmory as COUNTER
Skarmory (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Spikes/Defog
- Counter
- Whrilwind
- Roost
Skarmory can switch into anything against Excadrill and kill with Counter. Skarmory is also a very good counter of Mega Salamence, Extremekiller and few more.
Skarmory (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Spikes/Defog
- Counter
- Whrilwind
- Roost
Skarmory can switch into anything against Excadrill and kill with Counter. Skarmory is also a very good counter of Mega Salamence, Extremekiller and few more.
Rayquaza @ Choice Band
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
- V-create
- Extreme Speed
Rayquaza can come in on any move (except Rock Slide), laughs as it negates the Sand and proceed to OHKO the mole with Earthquake or V-Create. Moves are pretty standard and doesn't require explanation.
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
- V-create
- Extreme Speed
Rayquaza can come in on any move (except Rock Slide), laughs as it negates the Sand and proceed to OHKO the mole with Earthquake or V-Create. Moves are pretty standard and doesn't require explanation.
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 265-312 (75.4 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 211-250 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 239-283 (68 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 191-226 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 550-648 (151.9 - 179%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 211-250 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 239-283 (68 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 191-226 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 550-648 (151.9 - 179%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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Arceus-Ground (Counter)
Earth Crust (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 148 HP / 180 Def / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Recover
- Toxic
- Defog
Groundceus is a great mon in the current metagame and is also a nice counter to Sand rush Life Orb Excadrill. Groundceus can come in any move Excadrill uses and Excadrill cannot 2HKO Groundceus by any of its moves, while groundceus can OHKO Excadrill with a single Judgment.
Earth Crust (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 148 HP / 180 Def / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Recover
- Toxic
- Defog
Groundceus is a great mon in the current metagame and is also a nice counter to Sand rush Life Orb Excadrill. Groundceus can come in any move Excadrill uses and Excadrill cannot 2HKO Groundceus by any of its moves, while groundceus can OHKO Excadrill with a single Judgment.
Calculations:
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 180 Def Arceus-Ground: 142-168 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 148 HP / 180 Def Arceus-Ground: 175-208 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 428-506 (118.2 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 148 HP / 180 Def Arceus-Ground: 142-168 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 148 HP / 180 Def Arceus-Ground: 175-208 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 428-506 (118.2 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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I'l take Waterceus then
E2:
Check
Arceus @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Recover
- Toxic
- Defog
It eats a +2 Earthquake and OHKOes with Judgment. Ice Beam Arceus-Water variants will lose to SD Life Orb. Ice Beam variants will usually have Excadrill's antithesis on its team (Lugia), so SD Life Orb Excadrill should not be a problem.
Calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Arceus-Water: 316-372 (71.3 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Splash Plate Arceus-Water Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 428-506 (118.2 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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- Status