Pokémon Vivillon

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It's basically Butterfree, but better in every single way. This thing will be RU, I reckon - Compoundeyes Hurricane works like Galvantula's Thunder and runs off a superior Special Attack stat, but Quiver Dance and Coumpoundeyes Sleep Powder make it work similarly to the inferior Butterfree (and arguably superior Venomoth) as a setup sweeper. This little bug will bring ruin to NU if it goes that far down, but I see this as a solid RU contestant.

And if it DOES turn out to have base 90 SpA and Speed, it will still be a fearsome setup sweeper in NU as basically nothing down there resists both Flying and Bug aside from the truly awful Emolga which is basically nonexistent (oh yeah, Archen LOL, good luck with that). It might not be good enough for RU, but it will make the otherwise quite dangerous Butterfree and Masquerain completely non-viable and certainly will be a threat to prepare for.
 
Definitely not base 100 special attack or speed.

Mine timid one, random IV's, 252 special attack and speed, has 147 special attack and 158 speed. That implies around max base 90 speed on both, and only if mine has really low IVs.
 
just got quiver dance on her and even a neutral psybeam is tearing things apart
i cant wait till i can tutor sleep powder onto her
 
Definitely not base 100 special attack or speed.

Mine timid one, random IV's, 252 special attack and speed, has 147 special attack and 158 speed. That implies around max base 90 speed on both, and only if mine has really low IVs.
Serebii has 80/52/50/90/50/89 listed.
 
I'm sorry for the off-topicness but where do you get more Heart Scales? I'm pretty sure I've found all the Heart Scales hidden along the shores and whatnot. Is there a way to buy them? I'd love to get Sleep Powder on Viv, but I'm out of scales <.<
 
I'm sorry for the off-topicness but where do you get more Heart Scales? I'm pretty sure I've found all the Heart Scales hidden along the shores and whatnot. Is there a way to buy them? I'd love to get Sleep Powder on Viv, but I'm out of scales <.<
Just use Thief on Luvdisc, you can fish for them on Route 8 with an Old Rod. It's like 80% or something for them to carry one.
 
ps: I'm really not a fan of any of the powerful / inaccurate special attacks this generation after the nerf. The average base power over time dropped from 84 to 77 (120 * .7 to 110 * .7), which is barely stronger than Air Slash (base 75) on average.
Mmmmm Actually that statement is false... First because Air Slash actually doesn't have 75 power on average but 71 since it's accuracy it's 95, and second and more important, because Vivillon has Compoundeyes which increases the accuracy of Hurricane to 91%. So, making some calculations...
Hurricane BP = 110 x 0.91 x 1.5 = 150.15
Air Slash BP = 75 x 1 x 1.5 = 112.5
Which actually makes a difference around of 37.65 points, something around a non STAB quick attack... Maybe isn't a huge deal but it can make the difference between a OHKO or a 2HKO...

Also, a Neutral Hurricane does more damage than a SE Hidden Power and HP Fire or Fighting isn't really going to deal huge damage on many threats unless Vivi can manage to get +2 at least, so the steel types must remain countered by a teammate or Sleep Powder...
 

tennisace

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I realized my mistake after someone mentioned it on irc, I had Friend Guard on my mind since it's somewhat useful in doubles. You're right though, Compound Eyes Hurricane is better than Air Slash. (It's still a shitty Pokemon though.)
 
Lmfao whoever said Mothin just lost his top spot to you my good sir or ma'am i laugh. Yes what kept Mothim above Masqurain (Tinted Lens) didnt help it beat out Butterfree in NU (because it lacked Sleep Powder). And to be fair I think if Masq had Tinted Lens it would outclass Mothin slightly because it at least gets HydroPump (maybe GigaDrain as well I forget). But everyone must now realize that Vivillion takes dumps on both and will replace Yanmega as the Bug/Flying special monster in RU. I admit Rocks as always suck and itll need at least 2 Quivers to run train but Compoundeyes with Sleep Powder and Hurricane!?!? Could you ask for more? INFACT.....should Galvantula move up in tier itll also replace it as the bug special attacker of RU. I see a promising future for this buttery
 
Just use Thief on Luvdisc, you can fish for them on Route 8 with an Old Rod. It's like 80% or something for them to carry one.
After using Thief on about 20 different Luvdiscs, I still got no Heart Scale. I even brought a Pokemon with Frisk to make sure it had the item, and it did on multiple occasions. It appears that Thief does not work on wild Pokemon. The only way I was able to get it was to catch the Luvdisc, which really sucks imo, cause catching a whole bunch of them seems like the only way to get more Heart Scales :/

On a more related note, does anyone know if Vivillon can get Baton Bass from breeding with Venomoth?
 
After using Thief on about 20 different Luvdiscs, I still got no Heart Scale. I even brought a Pokemon with Frisk to make sure it had the item, and it did on multiple occasions. It appears that Thief does not work on wild Pokemon. The only way I was able to get it was to catch the Luvdisc, which really sucks imo, cause catching a whole bunch of them seems like the only way to get more Heart Scales :/

On a more related note, does anyone know if Vivillon can get Baton Bass from breeding with Venomoth?
try to use rock smash on the rocks around route 8 or so - i've found some heart scales that way.
thief does work on wild pokes, though. perhaps you were just unlucky, or your thief-user was holding an item. a very trusted friend of mine obtained a light ball in this way.
 
I think I've cleaned up just about every item along the shore and beyond, especially with my Item Finder. If the rocks respawn for Rock Smash, then maybe the Heart Scales found within them will respawn too?

My Thief-user didn't have an item at first, but after about 10 tries, I gave it a Smoke Ball to escape wild Pokemon, so it's possible I have really been that unlucky not to get a Heart Scale prior to giving my Thief-user a Smoke Ball. I'll try no item for good on it and see what happens... thanks again guys. Will edit post with results to reduce cluttering.

Results: Thief does steal items from wild Pokemon, as long as the Thief-user isn't holding a item, as you have said. My only uncertainty is if it will still steal the item if it kills the other Pokemon with Thief, but I'm wagering a guess that it does.
 
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After using Thief on about 20 different Luvdiscs, I still got no Heart Scale. I even brought a Pokemon with Frisk to make sure it had the item, and it did on multiple occasions. It appears that Thief does not work on wild Pokemon. The only way I was able to get it was to catch the Luvdisc, which really sucks imo, cause catching a whole bunch of them seems like the only way to get more Heart Scales :/

On a more related note, does anyone know if Vivillon can get Baton Bass from breeding with Venomoth?

You're doing something wrong.

Make the first pokemon in your party have Compound Eyes (Vivillon), Compound Eyes doubles the chances of the wild pokemon holding an item.
Then use Theif (Vivillon also gets this as a TM), make sure Vivillon is not holding an item.

I'm pretty sure you still get the item even if you faint the enemy, but if you're worried you can just toss a Quick Ball or put them to sleep with Compound Eyes Sleep Powder from a Vivillon XD
I think you know how much I like this bug hahaha
Problem solved : )
 
Yeah I got it working now, thanks xD

I think it would be really neat if Vivillon could learn Baton Pass. Sure, it would be a more frail Venomoth, but, those Compound Eyes Sleep Powders...
Sadly, it has to watch out for priority moves and scarf users (unless it somehow manages to get extra Quiver Dances). Oh and Stealth Rock of course, but don't most bugs?
 
Is there a way to tell your scatterbug will have compound eyes?

Edit - ah scatterbug has compound eyes too
 
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Note that Vivillon's base stats are actually 80 / 52 / 50 / 90 / 50 / 89 (or 90 base Speed; there is disagreement between the Serebii page and the Smogon Research thread)

Anyways, lets get some more competitive discussion here! Here is a set used by breh in a match we had yesterday:


Vivillon @

Timid Nature
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Trait: Compoundeyes

  • Sleep Powder
  • Quiver Dance
  • Hurricane
  • Substitute
The magic of this set is that it's very easy to set up free Quiver Dances with Compoundeyes Sleep Powder. If the opponent wants to switch into a Grass-type, they may have to take a Hurricane, which is a nasty attack for most Grass-types to have to tank. Substitute combined with Leftovers is used to ease prediction as well as block Vivillon from taking damage if the sleeping Pokemon suddenly wakes up. Vivillon can afford to use only Hurricane as its attacking move because Hurricane has very good neutral coverage, and nothing is immune to it. Bug Buzz is not a move you would be using very often on Vivillon, but it's always a decent option if you want a secondary attacking move. If you choose to use a secondary attacking move, use it over Substitute and change the item from Leftovers to Life Orb.

Thoughts on this set? Vivillon might actually have a lot of potential in the lower tiers. Kind of reminds me of Lilligant (who unfortunately got shafted pretty hard with the Sleep Powder + Hidden Power nerf, but I digress).
 
Vivillon's Hidden Ability is Friend Guard... Well, it is certainly the best Friend Guard user out there despite its bad stats and typing. But is it even any good?
 
Vivillon's Hidden Ability is Friend Guard... Well, it is certainly the best Friend Guard user out there despite its bad stats and typing. But is it even any good?
Yeah friend guard Vivillon is one of those interesting gimmicks... It gets friend guard and rage powder (the latter by egg move), which, with a focus sash, almost guarantees that your ally survives for a turn (Rage Powder draws in attacks and friend guard weakens Surf Earthquake Heat Wave etc.). But I'm skeptical about that set competitively.


Otherwise I absolutely adore Vivillon, I was hoping he'd have a niche from the very start. :) DTC, I was thinking of a mono-hurricane attacker as well, it seems promising. Hurricane is the perfect move a set like that, and the 30% confusion rate is neat too. It should also be useful in the Battle Maison, where you can Sleep, Sub, and Quiver Dance to your heart's content. There's no sleep clause there and they usually won't switch out, so... yeah.
 
Note that Vivillon's base stats are actually 80 / 52 / 50 / 90 / 50 / 89 (or 90 base Speed; there is disagreement between the Serebii page and the Smogon Research thread)

Anyways, lets get some more competitive discussion here! Here is a set used by breh in a match we had yesterday:


Vivillon @

Timid Nature
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Trait: Compoundeyes

  • Sleep Powder
  • Quiver Dance
  • Hurricane
  • Substitute
The magic of this set is that it's very easy to set up free Quiver Dances with Compoundeyes Sleep Powder. If the opponent wants to switch into a Grass-type, they may have to take a Hurricane, which is a nasty attack for most Grass-types to have to tank. Substitute combined with Leftovers is used to ease prediction as well as block Vivillon from taking damage if the sleeping Pokemon suddenly wakes up. Vivillon can afford to use only Hurricane as its attacking move because Hurricane has very good neutral coverage, and nothing is immune to it. Bug Buzz is not a move you would be using very often on Vivillon, but it's always a decent option if you want a secondary attacking move. If you choose to use a secondary attacking move, use it over Substitute and change the item from Leftovers to Life Orb.

Thoughts on this set? Vivillon might actually have a lot of potential in the lower tiers. Kind of reminds me of Lilligant (who unfortunately got shafted pretty hard with the Sleep Powder + Hidden Power nerf, but I digress).
Looks a good set for the lower tiers at least. My only major concern with it is that you could be baited into using hurricane too early and/or any protect shenanigans could leave you PP stalled, which would be a major flaw. That includes bulkier flying resists if sleep clause is activated, so some kind of fighting support/sweeper to deter rock/steel pokemon would help too. Oh and something for electric types while I think of it, although after enough quiver dances special electrics won't be doing that much.
 
So I just used Vivillon in a few battles. It's good. Damn good, even with Leftovers as it's item, which is what I did.
In my opinion, it's even better than Venomoth as a sweeper, but that's up to interpretation.
Definite RU/UU contender.
(The fact that it learns Hurricane... is so good)
Yeah, it's x4 weak to Rock, but if you use good support, it's a great team member.
 
Not sure if it's base stats are confirmed yet or if it still remains controversial but I quickly bred a 4/6 iv one with max hp, max spatk, max spdef and max speed. (Couldn't be bothered doing def and attack)

At leve 50 with timid nature:
 
Not sure if it's base stats are confirmed yet or if it still remains controversial but I quickly bred a 4/6 iv one with max hp, max spatk, max spdef and max speed. (Couldn't be bothered doing def and attack)

At leve 50 with timid nature:
Metalkid's IV calculator is getting impossible values. Are there any EVs on it? Use a Reset Bag.
Otherwise I'm getting stuff like 122 SpAtk and 121 Speed. o.o Yeah use a Reset Bag!
 
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So I just used Vivillon in a few battles. It's good. Damn good, even with Leftovers as it's item, which is what I did.
In my opinion, it's even better than Venomoth as a sweeper, but that's up to interpretation.
Definite RU/UU contender.
(The fact that it learns Hurricane... is so good)
Yeah, it's x4 weak to Rock, but if you use good support, it's a great team member.
As soon as I heard Vivillon got Hurricane (back on release day) I knew that it would very likely get more usage than both Lilligant and and Venomoth, who are similar quiver dancers. While having 90 base speed instead of 100 (and special attack too, but that's less important) is rather unfortunate, it has a few things over both Lilligant and Venomoth, the first, and probably most important, is a much better attacking stab. Hurricane with compound eyes is very reliable, and very powerful, after one boost, you have a 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock to Garchomp, which, while isn't a premier wall or anything, but by comparison, venomoth would only be doing 71.22 - 84.35% while Lilligant is stuck doing 74.3 - 88.26% when Modest. The problem those always had wasn't walls, but having to require multiple boosts to even get past normal attacking threats. Throw in the fact that all the things that resist flying moves happen to be weak to ground, and it becomes much easier to lure away those counters (it's a shame Hidden power got nerfed). Throw in buffs to defog, and some people using sticky web over rocks, and being dual weak to SR isn't as bad as it was in previous generations.

However, the chance of it being OU are slim, since 2 boosts are preferred to guarantee kills, it has rather weak defences, doesn't really have too much in the way of going though pokemon that resist it and more than anything, Volcarona exists, who is essentially stronger, faster, bulkier, and isn't afraid of common wall types (steels) but lacking sleep powder and trades flying STAB for a Fire STAB. STAB hurricane is rather useful though, as it does give 50% chance to KO Terrakion at +1 (although a scarf one will still outspeed you), something that Volcarona can't boast.

Doing calculations, a lot of things are rather scared of +1 LO Vivillon if rocks are up, of the more bulky pokemon, these are OHKO with rocks up with either Hurricane or Bug Buzz: Fortress, Bulky DD Gyarados, Donphan, Gliscor, Kyurem-B,(87.5%), Landorus-T, Latias, Latios, Salamance, Volcarona, Mamoswine, Celebi, Reuniclus, Ninetails and Conkeldurr.

And other notes, Hippowdon has a 43.75% after rocks, Jellicent, Tentacruel and Vaporeon are easily set up on, if at full HP Vivillon can get to +2 on Rotom-W and Politoad and live (if at full) and OHKO in return with bug buzz and hurricane respectively. It can KO Scizor at +1, but since it has 56.25% chance of being KO'd by bullet punch, it probably won't be wise to risk it. Dragonite after rocks is KO-able in all variants bar the special defensive one (defensive ones do however only have a chance to be KO'd after rock, not guaranteed), but dat extreme speed.

Vivillon isn't "a shitty Pokemon" by any means, although it still probably won't be featured in OU too much (I should have really done calcs on pokemon in lower tiers, but, meh).
 
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