i think it's pretty clear what i meant by that
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Volcarona
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Isn't Timid a better option over modest?. I would prefer to at least speed tie with the base 100 and outspeed everything bellow. unless you miss some ko's with the lack of power
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Timid is the worst possible nature for Volcorona, as it won't help you outspeed your deadliest threats anyway (terrakion, landorus, formerly garchomp, sand rush excadrill).
There is little reason to speed tie with the other base 100s, and correct me if I'm wrong but the most popular base 90 speed pokemon aren't anything you have to worry about either. Lucario for example has literally no reason to stay in on you.
Choiced pokemon are pokemon who like to switch in and out an awful lot. Since you may not always get the chance to sin away hazards, I'd rather not use Volcorona as a specs user. The power behind it is definitely something that demands respect though.
There is little reason to speed tie with the other base 100s, and correct me if I'm wrong but the most popular base 90 speed pokemon aren't anything you have to worry about either. Lucario for example has literally no reason to stay in on you.
Choiced pokemon are pokemon who like to switch in and out an awful lot. Since you may not always get the chance to sin away hazards, I'd rather not use Volcorona as a specs user. The power behind it is definitely something that demands respect though.
Actually, i don't agree with you, with timid nature and some EV's volcarona can outspeed excaldrill at +2 quiver dances, and if you are weather non-sandstorm team, you are always faster than him.
Timid nature is useful if you want to spend less EV's on speed, and keeping your speed stat pretty high, and have a better focus on HP and defenses.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
No sandstorm team is going to allow Volcorona to get two quiver dances up. You'll get one and they'll switch in Excadrill or another answer to you as you QD in order to force you out.
Not necessarily. If Tyranitar lacks Stone Edge, then assuming sun is up and Tyranitar is switching in, then Volcarona gets 2 Quiver Dances off; one when Tyranitar switches in and the second when Excadrill switches in. This is of course assuming the opponent uses Mixtar or something, but it's still a possibility.
Exactly, in my experience on battles A LOT of teams with tyranitar or a bulky supporter (like ferrothorn) easily let me set up 2 quiver dances, or sometimes they switch directly into excaldrill, but those pesky moles get a fiery dance on their faces.... XD
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Considering that mixtar is the most popular set, yes this is what usually happens. Or they'll switch to jellicient, in which case, you can point and laugh unless it's one of those toxic/taunt sets.
I diliberately avoided mentioning the possibility of nabbing excadrill on the switch simply because in my experience, fire blast and him are good friends. It always misses when I attempt to catch him, no matter who's using it.
I know, I know. I could use fire dance...
That's why you should bring toxic spikes when you use volcarona, it makes jellicent a set up bait if that thing doesn't carry taunt, toxic can with healed with chestorest. However with a taunt jellicent you can still ''seudo set up'' by just attacking with fiery dance.
Trust me, fiery dance is a lot better, yes fire blast give volcarona a lot of initial power, however in the long run fiery dance helps you getting Sp. Atk boosts when you can't QD, and the best of all it never misses XD.
But that's because it's IN GAME. Even though I must agree with you that Volcarona kicked ass in game, that was because none of the AIs EV trained their Pokemon, and Volcarona came at level 70 in the Ancient Castle. Even if you evolved it, it was still a powerhouse. You have to know how to use it in a metagame filled with Rock-typed moves and the ever-present Stealth Rock that shaves a good 50% of health each and every time you toss it out unless you Rapid Spin them away, so if you want to use the moth effectively, make sure you have spinner support, a Magic Bounce Pokemon, or just make sure your opponent never lay rocks down in the first place. Easier said then done at times, but even with rocks up, this Pokemon can still be a monster with QD and excellent STAB moves.
In my opinion, the Bulky Dance Volcoronas should to be EVd at Bold/ 232 Hp/ 252 Def/ 24 Spe, not the spread shown in the analysis. Why? Since you wont be using a Hidden Power. This spread not only minimizes Stealth Rocks damage, but you also outspeed max speed Starmie after one Quiver Dance and OHKO with Bug Buzz.
I don't know about the analysis, but everyone I've ever talked to always runs 24 Speed EVs on bulkyRona.
I'm also still amazed how few people carry checks / counters for Volcarona, at the end of the day what they usually are running is Excadrill's Rock Slide to beat it. Maybe the occasional Scarftar or CB SpDef Tar can take it, but that's only if it's running Stone Edge (which some people forgo). I also love running Conkel + Volcarona -- Conkel taking the rock-type attacks aimed at Volc and slamming back with STAB SE Drain Punch or Mach Punch is awesome. More people need to run Volc with Conkel (or terrakoin I guess)
I'm also still amazed how few people carry checks / counters for Volcarona, at the end of the day what they usually are running is Excadrill's Rock Slide to beat it. Maybe the occasional Scarftar or CB SpDef Tar can take it, but that's only if it's running Stone Edge (which some people forgo). I also love running Conkel + Volcarona -- Conkel taking the rock-type attacks aimed at Volc and slamming back with STAB SE Drain Punch or Mach Punch is awesome. More people need to run Volc with Conkel (or terrakoin I guess)
I am also amazed, I always keep volcarona in mind when building a team (barring themed teams) I usually take it down using SR+priority. or i use a utility trick roomer. that is a smart combo i guess, never tested it. I'll try it out.
tehy
Banned deucer.
This is why people need to start running night shade jellicent. Seriously, i run it specifically for volcarona, otherwise how are you supposed to counter it?
You do know that it can Earthquake and Rock Slide your whole team dead while also being barely as tall as a Scraggy?
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TeamRocket vacation condo!
I feel Hitmontop would have even better synergy with access to rapid spin and can hit TTar had with close combats and take insignificant damage from a -1 stone edge.
I simply don't find it threatening to be completely honest (and don't see it as much as I used to for some reason).
I nearly always have Stealth Rocks, which really hampers Volcarona's ability to team up (i.e. with Conkelderp). You switch out to Conkel, and Volcarona's already half dead and not coming back in unless you got the chance to use Morning Sun or something. And it's very difficult to come in on an attack, when you lose half your health first.
Basically, Volcarona comes out, gets wrecked by SR, and is pretty much stuck in. Bring out a Pokémon with a Rock-type move and it's more or less dead.
Volcarona requires pretty specific conditions to be effective. I've seen it sweep an entirely unprepared team, but having to come in at half health or less and leave with more than half makes Volcarona tough to use effectively, because even a bulky Volcarona faces trouble from a good deal of Pokémon that aren't even necessarily considered "counters" to it.
I'm still taken aback by how little people prepare for a Volcarona sweep. Just because SR exists doesn't mean it can't get on a roll despite that, and Chesto Rest against special attackers means it won't even care about that particular hazard.
I personally run
Quiver Dance
Fiery Dance
Hurricane
Rest
I always liked the Fiery Dance - Bug Buzz - HP Rock mixture the best, but chesto rest compromises flexibility somewhat, so I settled for Hurricane as the other coverage. It's not too bad, being an unblocked typing, high power, and the chance for confusion can throw spanners in the opponent's works. With enough Quiver Dances, it hits neutrally quite nicely, and works wonders in the Rain when people expect Volcarona to suffer - in the sun, Volcarona is happy with Fiery Dance anyway. Works great against Fighting types that come in expecting to get away with Stone Edge. The flaws are obvious but it's impressed me so far.
I personally run
Quiver Dance
Fiery Dance
Hurricane
Rest
I always liked the Fiery Dance - Bug Buzz - HP Rock mixture the best, but chesto rest compromises flexibility somewhat, so I settled for Hurricane as the other coverage. It's not too bad, being an unblocked typing, high power, and the chance for confusion can throw spanners in the opponent's works. With enough Quiver Dances, it hits neutrally quite nicely, and works wonders in the Rain when people expect Volcarona to suffer - in the sun, Volcarona is happy with Fiery Dance anyway. Works great against Fighting types that come in expecting to get away with Stone Edge. The flaws are obvious but it's impressed me so far.
I dunno about Hurricane... 70% accuracy, and doesn't really provide much superior type coverage to Bug Buzz. You forego power for a 70% accurate move, not to mention that's a complete Ttar bait.
It does hit opposing Volcarona and other Fire Types harder, I give you that. However, it then loses the ability to threaten some powerful Psychic / Dark / Water mons that are out there.
It does hit opposing Volcarona and other Fire Types harder, I give you that. However, it then loses the ability to threaten some powerful Psychic / Dark / Water mons that are out there.
Wow, I never knew that Volcarona could learn Hurricane. <_> But it doesn't really seem all that great for Volcarona because of the accuracy problem, and Volcarona would have to stay in the rain to get 100% accurate Hurricanes, which is begging for a rain-boosted Hydro Pump or Surf to the face.
A STAB Bug Buzz would probably hurt worse then a SE Hurricane. Hurricane's shitty accuracy screws it over, and Bug Buzz is just a much better move on Volcarona.
If you're going for recovery, I'd still say Morning Sun over ChestoRest. Volcarona is pretty weak to Sandstorm and Rain teams anyway, right? It probably has no time to be bulky there anyway. And you can only Rest once, then have to go on with no item.
I mean, the thing can recover health, but it's gotta get the perfect opportunity to do so. There are a lot of things that will stay in on a half-dead Volcarona. A lot of faster things that can hit pretty damn hard.
With massive Stealth Rock damage, you can't just pull Volcarona out whenever you need to. No matter what, it is very difficult to come in at half health or less and have to come out with more than that (and most likely you'll need full if you plan on coming in again).
I think Volcarona is pretty good at cleaning up late game, but faces serious problems trying to be bulky or a "any time" sweeper.
I mean, the thing can recover health, but it's gotta get the perfect opportunity to do so. There are a lot of things that will stay in on a half-dead Volcarona. A lot of faster things that can hit pretty damn hard.
With massive Stealth Rock damage, you can't just pull Volcarona out whenever you need to. No matter what, it is very difficult to come in at half health or less and have to come out with more than that (and most likely you'll need full if you plan on coming in again).
I think Volcarona is pretty good at cleaning up late game, but faces serious problems trying to be bulky or a "any time" sweeper.
Late-game sweeper is once thing, but why would you reveal your Volcarona in the beginning, especially with SR and all of the much faster Pokemon running around. After all of the threats are wiped out, then 5-% SR damage is still bad, but it isn't an instant death sentence for it. Morning Sun is a somewhat reliable recovery, and as you said, why would Volcarona stay in on Sand and Rain?