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Volcarona
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
I dont see this being too great because it looks like it will be walled easily and SR weakness. That is just my two cents. It can function well as a sweeper after about 3 pokemon have been taken out from your opponents team but the team will have to focus around breaking those walls. Still have a lot of hope for this guy and will love training and practicing with it but I see its faults pretty quickly without using it.
To people saying that Salamence/Gyarados/Heatran can take it are way wrong. Salamence takes 71.30% - 83.99% from a +1 LO Fire Blast. Thats a 66% to OHKO with SR up and thats a assuming a nature that doesn't hinder SpD.
A non boosted LO Bug Buzz does 63.31% - 74.79% to Garchomp. That means that if you straight attack from the beggining it can't switch with impunity.
The best counter I could see to this would be either a Dragonite or Blissey.
Dragonite may seem a little bit iffy since every Dragonite variant will be 2HKOed with SR support after one boost by one of its STABS. So yeah there you have it Urugamosu is a beast.
A non boosted LO Bug Buzz does 63.31% - 74.79% to Garchomp. That means that if you straight attack from the beggining it can't switch with impunity.
The best counter I could see to this would be either a Dragonite or Blissey.
Dragonite may seem a little bit iffy since every Dragonite variant will be 2HKOed with SR support after one boost by one of its STABS. So yeah there you have it Urugamosu is a beast.
Yeah, theres nearly nothing except Blissey that can switch in in this Guy after one ButtreflyDance, and the Butterflydance also boosts its good Sp.Def.
And even if there will be an other Counter as the Dragons and Blissey, youve still a HP you could use to kill a possible Counter or to Kill these nasty Dragons.
But Dory+ Ura dont carry each other weaknesses, theyve both a Water weakness, and dont cover their Weaknessses, only the fight waekness is covered by Ura, but theyre so many Ghosts available which can take this moves so much better so...
But after were sure, this guy will kill nearly everything after one Boost, at which Pokes do you want to Set-up. You havennt got many Resistances and your very weak on the pysikal side so, where can you safely setup?
And even if there will be an other Counter as the Dragons and Blissey, youve still a HP you could use to kill a possible Counter or to Kill these nasty Dragons.
But Dory+ Ura dont carry each other weaknesses, theyve both a Water weakness, and dont cover their Weaknessses, only the fight waekness is covered by Ura, but theyre so many Ghosts available which can take this moves so much better so...
But after were sure, this guy will kill nearly everything after one Boost, at which Pokes do you want to Set-up. You havennt got many Resistances and your very weak on the pysikal side so, where can you safely setup?
HP rock takes care of all of those instantly.
Urugomosu's biggest advantage by far is his resistances to most priority and decent bulk. This is what sets is apart from nearly any other major sweeper, who will get taken down by either CB tech breloom or scizor. SR weakness is a definite problem, but ultimately easier to handle imo than the huge amount of strong priority users running around, since there are several good rapid spinners out there right now, and rotom-h isn't around either. Unscarfed garchomp is ohko'ed too.
Urugomosu's biggest advantage by far is his resistances to most priority and decent bulk. This is what sets is apart from nearly any other major sweeper, who will get taken down by either CB tech breloom or scizor. SR weakness is a definite problem, but ultimately easier to handle imo than the huge amount of strong priority users running around, since there are several good rapid spinners out there right now, and rotom-h isn't around either. Unscarfed garchomp is ohko'ed too.
Yeah, but as far I know Hp Rock lowers your Speed 1 Dv and so youre slower than, Jira, Gon, etc.
@Rapid SPin: WIth the candle and the jelly around it should be even more difficult to Rapid Spin, since the Jelly will live very long it will make it difficult to Rapid Spin.
And Urugomosus Bulk isnt very good on the physical side, and after Stealth Rock, may Spikes or smoething like that and maybe after tanking on hit to Set-up even a not very effektive Priority Move will finish you off.
I Think how good this Butterfly will be is very much affektet by the role of Stealth Rock in Gen 5.
@Rapid SPin: WIth the candle and the jelly around it should be even more difficult to Rapid Spin, since the Jelly will live very long it will make it difficult to Rapid Spin.
And Urugomosus Bulk isnt very good on the physical side, and after Stealth Rock, may Spikes or smoething like that and maybe after tanking on hit to Set-up even a not very effektive Priority Move will finish you off.
I Think how good this Butterfly will be is very much affektet by the role of Stealth Rock in Gen 5.
The mole, when switching in, forces the other player to go into a dilemma about whether or not it would SD or Rapid Spin. It does have a chance to KO Max hp/Max defense jellyfish using a max attack +2 earthquake after SR (not factoring leftovers as assuming Sandstorm is in use). Guaranteed after either life orb or a layer of spikes or any other residual damage. Take that into consideration. And that is with MAX/MAX jellyfish, which I don't see as very common.
I predict most Golems will not invest in a Max defense and HP stat. Assuming max defense with beneficial nature, EQ from +2 Doryzuu nearly OHKOs if no HP investment is made. With SR or life orb, min HP Golem is OHKOed. Max neutral natured defense of Golem and Max HP is OHKOed by a +2 life orbed Doryzuu's earthquake after SR, with the chances of KOing fairly high (barring leftovers) without SR. Without life orb, you only have a small chance of Koing max hp max neutral natured defense golem with EQ, but still can OHKO min Hp max neutral defense Golem. (NOTE: All of these calculations are assuming a Sand Veil and not Sand Power nature, so Snad Power nature should turn those almost OHKOS into clean KOs, possibly not needing life orb or SR)
Chandera is obviously Koed since it is weak to ground.
I can't imagine Dusknoir/Desukan/Spiritomb being able to beat Doryzuu--at best they can burn the mole. A set of Sub/SD/EQ/Stone Edge works effectively here. (Can replace SD with Claw Sharpen and Stone Edge with rock slide or any other similiar new move)
Gengar is outsped by Sand Veil. (In addition, the calcs above were assuming Sand Veil, so you don't have to worry about switching abilities unless absolutely neccessary)
Bannete/Froslass/Mismagius is sort of like Gengar in terms of defense (against Doryzuu).
Shedinja is beaten by stone edge
You should, however, be wary of Destiny Bond from ghosts.
Erefuun might also screw you over if you are using SD. You are also unable to hit Skarmory hard, leaving it a prediction game as to when who will switch/whirlwind/rapid spin.
Desukan is in my opinion a gimmick special dusknoir with nasty plot and mummy.
No, I'm not writing an analysis about Doryzuu; since he is a teammate to moth, I am demostrating how effectively he could get rid of spinblockers while being able to spin away rocks at the same time. Doryzuu clears the way for Urgamoth to sweep, and also threatens the opponent at the same time as well.
The loss of Rotom formes as ghosts is huge. They were the premiere spinblockers of DPP due to thier ability to hit hard and stay a defensive wall. Electric and levitate certainly aided this, as I believe the Rotom forms are a lot less competent without Levitate and the loss of a weakness. As such, because Levitate is such a major factor, I don't imagine Chandera replacing, or at the least following, Rotom-A role for role.
Blissey may turn into a larger problem than I initially thought.
No matter what Tier it is put in I think it'll be a great partner for Groudon in Ubers.
Or even a fantastic Groudon counter. Switch into Fire Blast, take advantage of it's sun and Solarbeam it to hell.
It has 105 spD, respectable enough in Ubers.
Fire Blast, Solarbeam, Morning Sun, Windstorm are all great moves in Sun weather.
Bug Buzz hurts shit in Ubers, which is dominated by Psychic pokemon. Of course, the many Dragon types in Ubers resist Fire Blast / Solarbeam, but are Neutral to Bug. Anyways let me run some calcs.
All of these calcs DO NOT factor in sun.
+1 Butterfly Dance 252 spA Uruga Solarbeam vs 0 spD Groudon hits 155% Minimum
With no boost Uruga does 104% minimum
+1 Fire blast does 65% - 76% to 252 Hp Lugia and all Lugia can do is WW / Icebeam
+1 Bug Buzz OHKOs offensive CM Latios with no boost
Urugu without Flydance does 80 - 95% Damage and Latios does 54% max Dragon Pulse with no CMs in
Considering not many Ubers invest in spD since the stat is generally high for everyone there Uruga will do alot of damage.
Or even a fantastic Groudon counter. Switch into Fire Blast, take advantage of it's sun and Solarbeam it to hell.
It has 105 spD, respectable enough in Ubers.
Fire Blast, Solarbeam, Morning Sun, Windstorm are all great moves in Sun weather.
Bug Buzz hurts shit in Ubers, which is dominated by Psychic pokemon. Of course, the many Dragon types in Ubers resist Fire Blast / Solarbeam, but are Neutral to Bug. Anyways let me run some calcs.
All of these calcs DO NOT factor in sun.
+1 Butterfly Dance 252 spA Uruga Solarbeam vs 0 spD Groudon hits 155% Minimum
With no boost Uruga does 104% minimum
+1 Fire blast does 65% - 76% to 252 Hp Lugia and all Lugia can do is WW / Icebeam
+1 Bug Buzz OHKOs offensive CM Latios with no boost
Urugu without Flydance does 80 - 95% Damage and Latios does 54% max Dragon Pulse with no CMs in
Considering not many Ubers invest in spD since the stat is generally high for everyone there Uruga will do alot of damage.
I don't think using Sandstorm along with Urugamosu is a good idea, even if it does help Doryuuzu use Rapid Spin. The damage from Sandstorm and LO will wear Urugamosu down even without SR there (Urgamosu will only have 7 turns to sweep before it gets KO'd by residual damage and that's only if it comes in unscathed and the opponent doesn't have priority.)
Edit: @Kizzy: I don't think Urugamosu should be switching in on Groudon, even if it can take its Overheat. Earthquake and Stone Edge will do a ton of damage to Urugamosu and will probably KO it even without SR. Windstorm doesn't get an increase in accuracy during Sun; it only gets it during Rain. Just about every Uber Dragon besides Latios and Latias resists Bug and Rayquaza, Salamence, and Giratina resist the entire Fire/Bug/Grass combination. Solarbeam also won't help you when Kyogre switches in since it negates the Rain and can easily take a Bug Buzz and KO back with Surf or Water Spout. Every Uber Pokemon that isn't designing itself to be a purely physical wall invests massively in SpDef because of all of the powerful Special sets that reside there.
Edit: @Kizzy: I don't think Urugamosu should be switching in on Groudon, even if it can take its Overheat. Earthquake and Stone Edge will do a ton of damage to Urugamosu and will probably KO it even without SR. Windstorm doesn't get an increase in accuracy during Sun; it only gets it during Rain. Just about every Uber Dragon besides Latios and Latias resists Bug and Rayquaza, Salamence, and Giratina resist the entire Fire/Bug/Grass combination. Solarbeam also won't help you when Kyogre switches in since it negates the Rain and can easily take a Bug Buzz and KO back with Surf or Water Spout. Every Uber Pokemon that isn't designing itself to be a purely physical wall invests massively in SpDef because of all of the powerful Special sets that reside there.
Therefore, this is why I personally think Leftovers should be run on Urgamoth. I do believe that sandstorm should be used, as a prevention from losing 50% of health seems to be a worthwhile trade for a damage increase and a timer on Urgamoth's survivability.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Do you mean come into a fire blast? Urugamosu, only takes even damage, and thats boosted from the sun.
It has flame body, not flash fire.
It pretty much takes even from all of groudons main attacks, except 4x against groudon's stone edge
I love how people post in here and say "omG 4x SR weaknes it r baddd". I'm assuming people haven't actually used it. I have, and it has huge potential to sweep entire teams, which I've done. It's kind of like a special gyarados, SR weakness, special dd+spD, decent bulk, resistance to priority...the list goes on. Don't say it's bad if you haven't tried it.
I don't think anybody is saying its outright bad, but taking 50% each switch in is horrible, to say the least. It'll be a big red target for anything with priority or a scarf, and at only 50% health, it won't be hard to take down.
As much as I love Urugamosu, having a 4x weakness to a move as prevalent as SR is terrible.
RAPID SPIN.RAPID SPIN.RAPID SPIN.GOD WHY CANT YOU GET THAT >___>.Seirusly though if you are going to base your team around Urugo you will probably have something like Dory/Starmie somewhere so it dsn't really matter.
I find it so funny how most threads in this board ignore each other. The Espeon thread considers Stealth Rock as good as dead while ITT all the people go "oh no 50%". lol
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
pretty much this.
I didnt even consider the stealth rock damage hampering this thing
so much rapid spin availability, magic mirror, mirror coat buff, less accessibility to stealth rock and the fact that this thing can still set up at 50% and sweep.
The mole and the ice mirror.
Only Espeon.
lol ok I'll give you that for now
Pokéshifter allows us to have any old Stealth Rocker in B/W. They didn't get anything worthwhile in 5th Gen anyway.
Stealth Rock will still be common. Maybe, just maybe not as much as in 4th Gen, but don't get your hopes up too much.
....
ive personnally on utube seen this thing rip through an entire team after 1 BD..WITH STEALTH ROCKS ...if u get rocks out the way , blissey and maybe bulkynite can stop this thing
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Im theorymoning out my ass but all these factors mean that stealth rock is now going to be less common meaning all urugamosu needs is a little bit of support from a spinner or espeon. People dismissing as a crap pokemon, due to the weakness are not thinking at all.
I agree with this to an extent. Fire and Bug don't complement each other well offensively, leaving you with Hidden Power as you're coverage move. As previously discussed, I think Hp Rock is the way to go here. It hits essentially everything that resists you're STAB moves SE exluding Heatran, who isn't really a threat when Urugamosu is boosting it's already respectable Sp.Def further with Butterfly Dance. +1 LO Hp Rock 2HKO's offensive Heatran with Modest, and has a decent chance with Timid, while Heatran can't do enough back.
The Stealth Rock weakness isn't an issue if you really don't want it to be. Just like Yanmega, for instance, it requires support to reach it's full potential, you just have to provide it. Urugamosu arguably has even more potential than Yanmega thanks to better typing, stats, and Butterfly Dance. Being 4x weak to Stealth Rock doesn't make a Pokemon itself bad, it just means it requires more support, which some don't want to have to give. Just look at Ho-Oh, Moltres, and Yanmega to an extent. They are very powerful in their tiers, but not used as much because you can't just slap them onto a team like you can with things like Flygon, or Scizor. I think Urugamosu has a lot of potential.
People were forever complaining about the lack of Rapid Spinners in DPPt. Having only two new ones doesn't make Rapid Spin suddenly more available.
Fair enough about Espeon, as both sides now can see the opponent's teams before battle.
And that's what I meant. The main SRers (Azelf, Metagross, etc) didn't get anything from breeding moves (lol orly) or DW abilities. They can be Pokéshifted with no qualms at all.