@sax king: My post was in response to the OP which states that Bibarel does not deserve an OU analysis.
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What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)
- Thread starter Seven Deadly Sins
- Start date
Personally, I'm unsure if Victreebel should be on this list. Drought Ninetales has been released and, while Sun may not be as strong a Weather as say Rain or Sand, it's still an offensive threat that should be noticed. Victreebel not getting an analysis when it's just about, if not the same as, Venusaur in the Sun just doesn't make much sense to me.
You forgot to actually take it off the list.
Anyway, how about Cradily? He always used to have quite a nice niche on sandstorm teams with Toxic and Recover. Good defenses, can use curse to boost them even more. Storm Drain would also help against water types most pokémon on sandstorm teams fear.
They're really similar now, except Victreebel has much worse defenses but slightly better attack. Venusaur's bulk is probably quite an asset on a Sun Team, so I'm tempted to say that Victreebel is outclassed and doesn't need an analysis. I'm probably missing a vital move option or something, though.
Also, I agree with the Toxicroak notion. He's pretty much a full stop to most rain sweepers thanks to his typing, ability and passable bulk. He's also one of the best Vacuum Wave users and can smite Cloyster easily, and he can run an incredibly good Sub/Protect set with Leftovers or Black Sludge, so long as Politoed is present. 17.5% healing per turn is great, especially when you can have great Fighting/Dark coverage with your remaining moves.
An Ampharos with Cotton Guard and Charge can be quite a threat even with its miserable move pool. Switch into something physical, Cotton Guard twice and proceed to Charge/Charge Beam combo everything to death.
@GtM: Victreebell has SD. Makes that slightly better attack into way better attack.
@GtM: Victreebell has SD. Makes that slightly better attack into way better attack.
Venusaur also has Swords Dance, and has Earthquake to hit Steel types with whilst Victreebel is left with Sucker Punch. Although admittedly Victreebel might be a better Growth user thanks to a strong Power Whip and Weather Ball providing a strong option against Steel types, so if an analysis was written for Victreebel then Growth might be his niche.
I'd actually use Victreebel on most of my Sun teams were it not for the fact that his bulk is hideous. Even still, he's a very tough contender with unique movepool options over his fellow Grass/Poison types, like Sucker Punch and Weather Ball (which also frees up a slot for HP).
Personally, I'm of the opinion that with this new generation in full bloom, there are a lot of previously overlooked Pokemon with potentially useful factors in higher level play, and that the "unfit for OU list" shouldn't be very big at all. But one baby step at a time, I suppose.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that with this new generation in full bloom, there are a lot of previously overlooked Pokemon with potentially useful factors in higher level play, and that the "unfit for OU list" shouldn't be very big at all. But one baby step at a time, I suppose.
I oppose 2 Pokemon: Murkrow, and Exeggutor.
Murkrow- With max equal defenses, which is what I have been using, since I use a perish trapper with Protect and no Featherdance and an pre evolution stone, it has about the same bulk as a minimum defense Jirachi after pointy rocks damage. Priority Roost is extremely good, since you can heal off unexpected attacks before dying like a Hippowdon trying to Slack Off being painfully slow with 20 HP left. I could test it with Featherdance and max special defense instead. However, the main killer of my Murkrow right now seems to be hax, and since that actually seems to be reasonably rare for me, Murkrow usually gets his job done.
Exeggutor-If you test this, give it a lot of defensive EVs, a Lum Berry, Rest, Harvest and Sleep Powder. It is very bulky and hard to kill without trying to exploit its weaknesses. Even then, it can often survive some of these attacks (many of which are physical) and put the counter to sleep. For example, with just 252HP EVs, it survives ScarfTar's crunch and the following sandstorm damage (if there isn't a sandstorm that actually creates a bigger problem, because that means Tyrantitard has Tension...) so it can use Sleep Powder, Rest up, and eat its health with Giga Drain. 252HP/24Def Bold can survive Crunch, one turn of sand damage, and one switch-in to pointy rocks. Basically, with EVs, it's bulky and can abuse Harvest with Lum Berry+Rest.
Murkrow- With max equal defenses, which is what I have been using, since I use a perish trapper with Protect and no Featherdance and an pre evolution stone, it has about the same bulk as a minimum defense Jirachi after pointy rocks damage. Priority Roost is extremely good, since you can heal off unexpected attacks before dying like a Hippowdon trying to Slack Off being painfully slow with 20 HP left. I could test it with Featherdance and max special defense instead. However, the main killer of my Murkrow right now seems to be hax, and since that actually seems to be reasonably rare for me, Murkrow usually gets his job done.
Exeggutor-If you test this, give it a lot of defensive EVs, a Lum Berry, Rest, Harvest and Sleep Powder. It is very bulky and hard to kill without trying to exploit its weaknesses. Even then, it can often survive some of these attacks (many of which are physical) and put the counter to sleep. For example, with just 252HP EVs, it survives ScarfTar's crunch and the following sandstorm damage (if there isn't a sandstorm that actually creates a bigger problem, because that means Tyrantitard has Tension...) so it can use Sleep Powder, Rest up, and eat its health with Giga Drain. 252HP/24Def Bold can survive Crunch, one turn of sand damage, and one switch-in to pointy rocks. Basically, with EVs, it's bulky and can abuse Harvest with Lum Berry+Rest.
People use Focus Blast, Stone Edge and elemental fangs because they need the coverage, Overheat, Fire Blast and Leaf Storm for the power, Boiling Water and Lava Plume for the burn chance and similarly, Discharge for the increased paralysis chance. Double Team, Minimize and OHKO moves wouldn't be banned if no one used them. Inconsistent, with enough stalling, will eventually net an increase in most, if not all stats.
I disagree a small bit with Qwilfish being on the "no analysis" list. Qwilfish did get a bit worse this Generation (Explosion nerf, Nattorei existing), but it still has that valuable role of absorbing Toxic Spikes, something that proves extremely damaging to Rain teams. It has a niche roll still, and I think it should be considered for an analysis.
And it has Intimidate now, which is totally game-breaking. <3
Honestly, I would have thought that most Swift Swimmers and Chlorophyll sweepers would have had an OU analysis by this point, but even with Drizzle, I don't see any Qwilfish, Tsunbeaa, or any of those other guys around. That really says something.
Lickilicky gets wish as an event move, and therefore is unable to get it in tandem with Cloud Nine. If that was your sole reason for removing it from the list, you may want to reconsider :P. Plus, when Lickilicky dies, Cloud Nine's effect goes away, so it would ultimately be achieving nothing if it doesn't kill the sweeper in question.Originally Posted by Fat Seven Deadly Sins
holy fuck so many replies
Lickilicky is actually reasonable- huge HP with Wish, as well as Cloud Nine and a stupid movepool makes it a legit counter to Weather-based teams. I've removed it from the list. I'm also considering the same for Lickitung, as it can use Evolution Stone to bolster its defenses, though it takes a significant cut to its offense in the meantime.
Edit: Also straight from the Qwilfish analysis--
I assume that you disregarded Qwilfish because Nattorei exists and the Explosion nerf, but Qwilfish does possess that great niche ability to absorb Toxic spikes as said above, which otherwise greatly hinders Rain Sweepers. Plus infinite rain doesn't hurt either.
Why would you take out Crawdaunt? Crawdaunt finally became a beast in the 4th generation with the Physical/Special separation, a new offensive move in X-Scissor, and it got a new toy to play with: Dragon Dance (breeding move), So it at least deserves an analysis. By the way, Crawdaunt beats Kingler in many ways! =D
I don't think +0 Vacuum Wave would OHKO Doryuuzu, and you'd have to come in on a Revenge Kill, unless you're running Balloon (even then, Return hurts).
Actually, I'd mention that more in the vein of sweeping right through Doryuuzu and friends once you're at +2. I used to run Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb/Vacuum Wave to run through weakened Sand teams, but stopped because of a certain flying scorpion that will not be named.
Also, as an added bonus, if you run 252 HP, he can check Darkrai pretty hard. Dark Pulse does 33.2% - 39.5% and with Rain healing you every turn, he's just setup fodder.
Also, as an added bonus, if you run 252 HP, he can check Darkrai pretty hard. Dark Pulse does 33.2% - 39.5% and with Rain healing you every turn, he's just setup fodder.
So, any chance we can get an answer on Shibirudon?
As far as I'm aware a consensus wasn't reached on it. I would just like to state that I believe it quite viable in OU thanks to its mixed attacking prowess, it certainly isn't outclassed, and that since the analysis is already QC approved and written, I don't see how it could hurt to give it the benefit of the doubt.
As far as I'm aware a consensus wasn't reached on it. I would just like to state that I believe it quite viable in OU thanks to its mixed attacking prowess, it certainly isn't outclassed, and that since the analysis is already QC approved and written, I don't see how it could hurt to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Placeholder post, I'm reading replies, will edit this with my opinions.
But lots of people use Volbeat in OU nowadays due to its being able to Baton Pass Tail Glow and having better stats than Smeargle, even outside of Dream World. So if Gorebyss gets an analysis because of Baton Passing Shell Break, then so should Volbeat.
Also, even though the point is moot right now because Perversity Shuckle isn't released yet, the statement that "Perversity does nothing for it, as it has no stat lowering moves for itself and you don't need to lower its stats to kill it" is false, as it makes Shuckle the perfect Shaymin-S counter. So it has a niche, but the point is moot because it's not released yet. So when it is released and if Shaymin-S isn't banned, you can take Shuckle off the list.
Also, even though the point is moot right now because Perversity Shuckle isn't released yet, the statement that "Perversity does nothing for it, as it has no stat lowering moves for itself and you don't need to lower its stats to kill it" is false, as it makes Shuckle the perfect Shaymin-S counter. So it has a niche, but the point is moot because it's not released yet. So when it is released and if Shaymin-S isn't banned, you can take Shuckle off the list.
I don't see whats wrong with Cradily, he does have storm drain - which is a new toy.
I am going to remove Toxicroak from the list. EDIT: Will discuss Shibirudon later. I am also going to clean up the thread a bit to make it easier to peruse. If one of your posts is deleted, it is likely because it no longer has relevance (Pokemon in question was removed from the list).
Also want to touch on Qwilfish: Explosion has been nerfed, plus it's walled to hell and back by Nattorei. It's not like there's a shortage of rain sweepers or anything - Manaphy, Kingdra, Ludicolo, and Kabutops are all generally better choices.
Also want to touch on Qwilfish: Explosion has been nerfed, plus it's walled to hell and back by Nattorei. It's not like there's a shortage of rain sweepers or anything - Manaphy, Kingdra, Ludicolo, and Kabutops are all generally better choices.
SJCrew, I use Coil/Gunk Shot Arbok on Pokemon Online, it sweeps teams, with earthquake and aqua tail/sucker punch it OHKO's alot.
One more thing I think needs considering is Unburden Sceptile, using a Sub-petaya set, using Energy Ball/Grass Knot, Hidden Power Electric/Other (not sure which would grant better coverage) and Focus Blast, it could certainly do some damage...
One more thing I think needs considering is Unburden Sceptile, using a Sub-petaya set, using Energy Ball/Grass Knot, Hidden Power Electric/Other (not sure which would grant better coverage) and Focus Blast, it could certainly do some damage...
Why would anyone ever use unburden Sceptile? It's already fast enough and overgrow is better on any pinch berry set anyway.
Whyever is Linoone not worthy of writing about? Belly Drum+Salac+even-more-priorities-so-Mach-Punch-doesn't-fuck-it-over Extremespeed sounds good.
Also, Volbeat. Encore, Tail Glow, and (does it have it yet?) Mischievous Heart make it an entirely different pokemon than Smeargle.
Also, Hitmonlee and Reckless High Jump Kick (and Unburden).
Also, Cradily in sandstorm isn't half-bad.
Echoing everyone the Shibirudon is awesome, parce que it has no weak, and coverage, and mixiness, and it's slow for Trick Room, and has Coil.
Also, Volbeat. Encore, Tail Glow, and (does it have it yet?) Mischievous Heart make it an entirely different pokemon than Smeargle.
Also, Hitmonlee and Reckless High Jump Kick (and Unburden).
Also, Cradily in sandstorm isn't half-bad.
Echoing everyone the Shibirudon is awesome, parce que it has no weak, and coverage, and mixiness, and it's slow for Trick Room, and has Coil.
Seconding Coil Arbok, Intimidate can give it plenty of opportunities to set up and can make it pretty bulky after a Coil boost. Sucker Punch over Aqua Tail, it needs the priority.
EDIT: And Golduck. One of the few Pokemon that can revenge kill / check ST Doryuuzu without priority. Scarfed Golduck makes a decent check to both Doryuuzu and Randorosu.
EDIT: And Golduck. One of the few Pokemon that can revenge kill / check ST Doryuuzu without priority. Scarfed Golduck makes a decent check to both Doryuuzu and Randorosu.