"What can it do that SDLuke can't?"

[Imran]

I ran Specs Luke not too lng ago in teams, and I was shocked at how some teams seemed to be unprepared for it. Beyond their one special wall (something like a blissey) they were pretty dead meat. I ran it with CB Dugtrio to get rid of those Blissey / Tentacruel that tried to wall it, but I kep getting set up on. It might be worth trying something like

Specs Luke
LO Duggy
Bullet Punch Scizor

LO Duggy takes out the main threats to Specs Luke, allowing him to sweep. If something goes wrong with that then hopefully Specs Luke can take out BP Scizors threats, allowing him to sweep.

 

[Green Mage]

It's the choice thing.

Predicting with SpecsLuke requires telepathy, and a misprediction can easily spell out your demise in an atmosphere with various dances lurking around every corner.

It is also too slow. There is too much 'come in > hit what's incoming > forced to switch' going on with it.

It is one of my favorite movesets, though. Not that I can get it to work or anything. I think maybe dropping the specs might be a step in the right direction. The Orb or Belt might work better. Or maybe if you build an entire team around it so you have the most common mispredictions covered...

One huge positive: Spec'd Vaccum Wave is killer.

 

[Phoenix_21]

Two points I think need more mention - Lee's saying about HP Rock. If you can give up Vacuum Wave, why not go Aura Sphere/Shadow ball/HP Rock/Dragon Pulse?

Dragon Pulse hits things hard but not as hard as HP Ice, but it may be useful for the many, many Kingdra's which must surely be just beyond the horizon - espcially since Lucario resists outrage if Kingdra gets locked into it. It is also his hardest hitting attack against Spiritomb I think.

The other thing I thought was interesting was Goldfan's Luc/Duggy/Scizor combo. You could use SpecsLuke, SD Scizor, ScarfTrio and a good Blissey switch-in. This way Heatran is also always taken out the first time it kills something or gets outpredicted and switched in the same time as Duggy. Dugtrio takes out a massive threat to Scizor and Lucario, which also happens to be almost always scarfed and the most used Pokemon in OU.

 

[Buckles]

I used Specs Luke on Wi-Fi and it was very successful. Hits like an a-bomb and Vacuum Wave somewhat helps with the speed problems. On Shoddy however, I switched it to a ScarfLuke and it nets lots of surprise kills.

Lucario (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 80 Atk/252 Spd/176 SAtk
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Close Combat
- Crunch/Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Psychic

Not so much a wall-breaker, but does solid damage, especially late-game and the best part is, fast and no set-up required. What it loses in power in Specs, it more than makes up for in revenge killing. I tried SD Luke before too, but it's just so common that everyone has a counter for it.


P.S. I use Toxicroak on the same team......

 

[AJC]

I'm also a big Togekiss user and baton passing a Nasty plot to Specscario is usually easy since most people will try to hit Togekiss with ice beam. He's also great at stopping Heatran and Tyranitar from sweeping you.

one of the teams i used back when i was shoddying alot was a team with a AP passing togekiss and a Acupressure passing dodrio it was always fun when after any special attack boost you 2HKO blissey regardless of what she's running

 

[SMZ]

I've always been a fan of SpecsLuke, not only because my main team has phyiscal sweeprs, but also a cool surprise factor as most people expect SDLuke. On Shoddy I've found Timid more useful than Modest on SpecsLuke due to outrunning neutral Salamence and other neutral 100s and for Blissey the new standard Blissey is not 2KOed by Modest Specs Aura Sphere and Timid/Modest Specs Aura Sphere both 3KO.

 

[Cynthia]

It's also interesting to note that Lucario can boost his special attack via Calm Mind. It's possible to run a Sub/CM set, though it's hard to function with only 2 attacks(It's a matter of Hp Ice vs. Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse), while I imagine a 3 attack version using CM and LO could also work, possibly utilizing Vacuum Wave's priority modifier. Lucario has a lot of options not involving SD.

 

[Taylor]

You have single-handedly convinced me to design a team where the majority of members in the team benefit greatly from Lucario's assistance.

Yes, it's true, Swords Dance Lucario is an independant sweeper and requires little assistance from your team; which, by the way, is Stealth Rock and Stealth Rock alone. It has little to offer anyone else in your party, albeit it wins you games; something that none of us should complain about.

Choice Specs Lucario delivers some great results on those calculations you have provided us with. In fact, those alone have inspired me to build a new team with Lucario being the core.

Thank you for the intelligent review, one that led to an interesting read, Lee. ^_~

 

[twash]

Great post Lee, was a good read!

Anyway, I have only tried SpecsLuke twice, both times it just has not worked for me. But you've kind of encouraged me to create a team built around him in the future. Still, it seems proven to do damage - with prediction.

As you posted, it is frighteningly scary, OHKOing over half (55%) of the top 40 Pokémon. It can be used as a great lure, tricking many physical walls such as Gliscor, to open up a sweep for your Heracross.

I personally have always found "MixLuke" the most useful, Naive with Hidden Power Ice. Gliscor was used by many people to counter Lucario, so I could use this in a similar fashion to kill of Gliscor for a Heracross sweep. Life Orb also eases the prediction that you must face with Choice Specs.

I don't think it was "forgotten" as such, I think everybody just decided to jump on the SDLuke bandwagon.

 

[mien]

Nice rant however i don't see it gaining usage anywhere soon

The only reason i see for using Specsluc is it's unpredictability nobody expects it. It needs a lot of prediction and knowledge about your opponents team to use effectivly forcing it to the lategame

Besides even with those calculations you provided Specslucario seems weak to me for a choice user lacking any move with more then 90Power is just sad. Unlike other choice users like Heracross he can't really hurt when hitting something who resists the move he is using

Besides LO lucario with close combat hits just as hard on a mixed wall but doesn't lose any coverage

 

[Bologo]

It's also interesting to note that Lucario can boost his special attack via Calm Mind. It's possible to run a Sub/CM set, though it's hard to function with only 2 attacks(It's a matter of Hp Ice vs. Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse), while I imagine a 3 attack version using CM and LO could also work, possibly utilizing Vacuum Wave's priority modifier. Lucario has a lot of options not involving SD.

I've been personally testing SubCM Luke on my main team for about 3 days now, and it acutally fits very well with my team. I have a Bulk Up Priority Breloom and a Calm Mind Priority Lucario. Believe me, there's not much that can take double priority sweepers, especially when they're on opposite sides of the attacking spectrum.

For my SubCM Lucario, I run:

Lucario @Leftovers
EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
Modest Nature
Inner Focus

- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Vaccum Wave
- Dark Pulse

Yes, this may look like an odd set for Lucario to be running, but it is actually quite deadly. Many of you know that Lucario has billions of resistances due to its amazing typing, and this set lets him abuse them quite well. A good strategy is to Substitute first, because first, it lets you take status, and second, the opponent will still not know which set you are running. It may still be physical, since Lucario can still run a SubPunch set (I know it's not common, but it can work). This means that the opponent might switch to a physical Lucario counter. However, you can CM up during that time. After about 2 Calm Minds, Lucario can take under 25% from most Special Attacking walls, and work like a SubCM Mismagius. The difference between SubCM Lucario and SubCM Mismagius is the physical resistances. Lucario has 5 really good mainly physical resistances, but only 2 big weaknesses.

Yeah, I'm not sure how practical this set actually is, but like I said, it mainly works on my team because of the double priority sweeper combo, which is really potent. I didn't put Infernape on my team for it because it doesn't fit with the synergy of my team, but yeah. This thing has grown on me.

 

[RaikouLover]

Originally Posted by Fat Bogmire

why not use modest with vacuum wave?

Specs Luke doesn't always have full health. In the case of revenging a SD Lucario if you are at low health they will just E-Speed you. Since you are also faster, you outpriority them.

This is a great thread Lee, thanks. However, I don't understand how thing went so forgotten. The set hasn't changed at all. It's just as effective as it was in early D/P. Shame if people dont realize it.

 

[cim]

Uh, Wish / Protect Calm Blissey can stall SpecsLuke out relatively easily (pray for no crits basically), but I digress.

I didn't realize SpecsLuke was so horribly unpopular, to be honest. It makes more sense than SDLuke sometimes. Plus like any good Specs user there are several Pokémon he can switch in on (Tyranitar Crunch / Stone Edge, Scizor Bullet Punch, etc) and immediately threaten. The priority attack with his best STAB is really awesome as well.

Hidden Power Pock hits Gyarados harder and if it still OHKOs Salamence with SR damage I see no reason why one wouldn't run it except to 4x Gliscor.

 

[Chill]

Oh yeah.

 

[BlakBlastoise]

That drawing is win ^

 

[Jumpman16]

Great thread, Lee. (You write an awful lot like I do, I've noticed, which I obviously like because I, the mighty Jumpman16, am the best.) It should be underlined how "easy" it is to put SpecsLuke on a team with SD Scizor, as you mentioned with luring and just in general.

Choicing in general may not be as popular as it once was due to risk or whatever, but I would argue that this isn't necessarily the overwhelming reason people stopped using SpecsLuke, but that rather SD Luke got more and more popular and that Species Clause automatically had its say. I know I sure would "build a team around SD Scizor and SpecsLuke" if I played competitively, as it seems like such a team would be pretty successful if made and used properly.

 

[stormtrooper]

extremespeed is a much better priority move than vacuum wave. it has 80 base power and vacuum wave is only 60 after stab. and it is hitting almost everything unresisted except ghost,steel,and rock.your locked in with specs so you wont be getting more than one kill at a time unless they don't have a fighting resist. close combat also has higher base power than aura sphere.

 

[Green Mage]

I built a team around SpecsLuke today and tested it for a few hours.

The main problem is that even though the team is lucariocentric, I find myself using the pokemon who are supposed to support Luke much, much more often. The goal of the team never really manifested.

In addition, after you pick off SpecsLuke's counters, Scizor does a great job of mopping up.

I mostly used it to get the drop on physical walls, but the gig was up after that. It also OHKO'd a Metagross with Aura Sphere which was a bit surprising. Unfortunately, my 252spa modest Specsluke was utterly walled by Blissey, save once when I got a crit. It could have 2HKO'd the one gliscor I saw, but it was too slow and got EQed.

Of course this is only from a few hours of testing. The team works well, but Lucario doesn't do much.

 

[EvilBob]

extremespeed is a much better priority move than vacuum wave. it has 80 base power and vacuum wave is only 60 after stab. and it is hitting almost everything unresisted except ghost,steel,and rock.your locked in with specs so you wont be getting more than one kill at a time unless they don't have a fighting resist. close combat also has higher base power than aura sphere.

Base power isn't completely comparable in such a situation because you have to keep in mind that it hits a different defense stat. Also Vacuum Wave is capable of scoring super effective hits too.

 

[Kira]

Rai: Instead of using Pokemon to support Lucario why don't you use Lucario to support your other Pokemon? You can use Specs Cario as a lure in order to take out one of Scizor's counters by surprise early in the game.

Stuff like that basically. Don't focus the team on Lucario himself.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Rai: Instead of using Pokemon to support Lucario why don't you use Lucario to support your other Pokemon? You can use Specs Cario as a lure in order to take out one of Scizor's counters by surprise early in the game.

Stuff like that basically. Don't focus the team on Lucario himself.

This. Last time I used SpecsLuke, it did a fantastic job of taking out physical walls that like to switch in on it, but it really can't sweep teams by itself. Nab a surprise kill or two per game, yes, but it can't end the game on its own like SDCario can. I think that a lure is the best thing it can be used as since no one expects Lucario to be special anymore.

Happy now, Chris? :P

 

[cim]

Guys: SpecsLuke (if anyone says SpecsCario then they like dumb names) isn't good at late game sweeping because that's not what it's supposed to do! There is no such thing as a Choice Item user (without Trick) that is designed to sweep late game. Not every Pokémon one carries needs to be the one to "end the game".

Also, uh, Lee: why did you post this now my SpecsLure team is totally predictable x_x.

 

[Stathakis]

Guys: SpecsLuke (if anyone says SpecsCario then they like dumb names) isn't good at late game sweeping because that's not what it's supposed to do! There is no such thing as a Choice Item user (without Trick) that is designed to sweep late game. Not every Pokémon one carries needs to be the one to "end the game".

Also, uh, Lee: why did you post this now my SpecsLure team is totally predictable x_x.

scarfchomp (before he was moved) and scarfmence sweep in the lategame. also scarftran, scarfskymin, and pretty much anything else with a scarf and high power stab moves. I've also found cb azumarill with aqua jet to be quite the cleaner upper against a weakened team.

but yea specsluke aint supposed to lategame sweep. thats what sdluke is for! but yea he is pretty damn awesome.

 

[Cynthia]

In addition to testing the Sub/Cm Luke, which is pretty good, I've also been testing a different set to some success:

Lucario@ Life Orb 252 SpAtk/252 Spe/4 Hp
Nature: Timid
Calm Mind
Aura Sphere
Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
HP Ice

More powerful than SpecsLuke(with a turn of setup), faster, and you don't get locked into the same move. Could run Vacuum Wave/Modest, but Timid is very useful for outspeeding things built around outspeeding Adamant Luke, like Pre-DD Mence,Jolly Mamo, and Gliscor, who are all OHKO'd. There aren't too many counters (save Gyarados) to this set.

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

I like running Specs Luke but with Life Orb. Lets you have more variety in attacks and can especially be useful when picking off weaker foes with Vacuum Wave. Also, passing Nasty Plot onto this is just...nasty. I've swept many teams with it after 1 Nasty Plot boost.