What would YOU do if your child was retarded?

[chaos]

I saw this in Firebot (courtesy of the illustrious Big Bayou)

and it reminded me of an argument I had with a girl a long time ago (specifics of THAT aren't important :avatar:).

If defects (retardations, handicaps, etc) are detectable in pregnancy, what's the harm in aborting it and trying again? I've never been a stickler for the pro-life movement, but if I wanted to raise a child I would surely want it to be a healthy one.

Lets assume for this discussion that defects are detectable at pregnancy, and you or your female partner of choice is pregnant with a handicapped child. How would you handle the situation?

 

[D_Force]

For me, it's kinda different to everyone else as my elder brother is mentally disabled.

Anyway, I don't think its right to abort a child because of that. My experience with my brother shows to me how they can still have a happy life if all necessary measures are taken.

Ultimately, I'd stand by whatever the mother feels, if she's against her due to the condition being particularly severe (such as knowing the child will be paralysed, in pain etc) then I'd support her if she feels she wants an abortion.

 

[SynysterCola]

Well, I'm not entirely picky on having a perfectly healthy child (nothing against you chaos). If it's a condition that's manageable, then we'd allow the pregnancy to happen. If the defect can be life threatening, then maybe it might be best to abort...maybe.

I'm pretty neutral on the pro-life movement (but I do believe it's her choice).

 

[Ambitions]

I personally think if some one would Abort a child just cause its mentally handy cap....they have no soul. But hey, that just me. I mean, if you want to fuck, except the consequences, and they could be a handy capped child.

I used to baby sit a retarded kid while I was in High School and learned that he wasn't really as unintelligent as most people thought. And the more I think back on it, that kid really was a pretty big part of my daily routine, and every one around school knew him. I'm so glad his mom didn't pull out the ol' vacuum on him.

As far as what would I do...thats a two way decision, but I'd want to keep it.

That "Every Baby Is A Blessing" flier just looks like a freaking joke though. I loled.

 

[sbc]

If defects (retardations, handicaps, etc) are detectable in pregnancy, what's the harm in aborting it and trying again?

Having a child is not like breeding pokemon IVs (lol), it's not just oops he wasn't perfect for me, better kill him and try again by doing so you are saying that people with disabilities are not equal (at least in a moral sense if not intelligence-wise) to others which basically paves the way for the mistreatment and abuse of people who are suffering of things that they did not wish upon themselves.

I could however understand why someone would abort a child with serious disabilities such that it became to the extreme detriment of the child but would still not advocate aborting the child still

P.S. "retardation" and "handicapped" ( ages ago people used to throw out people with disabilities and they were given a cap to beg on the street with hence handicapped) are words some find offensive

 

[trader]

well im pro life so i would want her to have the baby

 

[chaos]

I personally think if some one would Abort a child just cause its mentally handy cap....they have no soul. But hey, that just me. I mean, if you want to fuck, except the consequences, and they could be a handy capped child.

I usually like getting my soul judged by people who type "handy cap"

But seriously, I don't think a child in its prebirth, parasitic form is worth loving. My affections for a child only stem from the amount of effort and care I put into raising it. An aborted child is nothing.

I'm not arguing that "handy caps" are inhuman or whatnot, but I do believe if I have the ability to raise a child who can serve as a functioning adult in society and not be burdened with a disability I am doing myself, my child, and the world a great favor.

t's not just oops he wasn't perfect for me, better kill him and try again

See my thoughts on abortion above.

by doing so you are saying that people with disabilities are not equal (at least in a moral sense if not intelligence-wise) to others which basically paves the way for the mistreatment and abuse of people who are suffering of things that they did not wish upon themselves.

no

P.S. "retardation" and "handicapped" ( ages ago people used to throw out people with disabilities and they were given a cap to beg on the street with hence handicapped) are words some find offensive

you'll live.

 

[akuchi]

I think yeah, I'd most probably abort it. Not something I'd exactly relish doing, but meh, I very much doubt I and my partner would be able to cope and what's the point in bringing a child into the world you don't know if you'll be able to love/cope with?

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

If this was firebot..I would have responded "Well, I'll do what your mom did, you seem to appear fine.." but it's not therefore..

To me it doesn't matter if the child was going to have down syndrome or not, it'd just stem back to the whole abortion deal. And seeing as how I'm really unaffected by the whole abortion thing, I'd say abort the kid if you can't handle it, regardless of the situation.

But then again there's always that birth it and put it up for adoption thing, but whether or not you want to stretch your vagina 2 feet wide for the kid is up to you.

 

[Taylor]

If I was in such a situation, like many would do, I too would keep the child.

You can still: love, have moments you'll treasure forever, and make sure the child has a happy life.

I am not against abortion, I do feel there are times when it's right, but I in this certain situation believe abortion is not the better of options.


Look how happy goofball is.

 

[CaptKirby]

So what if they can live a happy life? They will always live life not being able to operate normally. If I got in a wreck, and lost my critical thinking capabilities to any large degree, I would commit suicide, assuming I still had the faculty to realize my loss.

 

[Kira]

I would have to convince my wife to get an abortion. I would not like it but I cannot see myself being a good father to someone with mental handicaps. So I would rather have a dead fetus that doesn't really know anything, then a self aware baby with a father who can't handle dealing with it's mental handicaps, which would only cause strife to the family.

 

[DM]

P.S. "retardation" and "handicapped" ( ages ago people used to throw out people with disabilities and they were given a cap to beg on the street with hence handicapped) are words some find offensive

Um... why? Those are the scientific terms. A child with Down Syndrome is mentally retarded. That's just WHAT IT IS. It makes me think of a George Carlin "joke":

"Handicapped people no longer want to be called that. Now, they're... handiCAPABLE!"

Fuck that noise, you're handicapped. Grow some thicker skin, because that's what you are BY DEFINITION.

Okay, off of that tangent and onto the thread topic. I am in favor of abortion in all areas. If your condom breaks, get an abortion. If the bitch lied and she isn't on the pill, get an abortion. If one of your miracle spermozoids makes it through the condom and past her birth control... then, shit, God is telling you to have that child, but you should still have the choice to nix it.

For me, as selfish as it sounds, the decision to abort a fetus that I know is handicapped in some way is more for myself, not the fetus. That handicapped child will always need constant and vigilant care, if not from you then from your mate or some outpatient care. That child will be extremely expensive to keep alive, whether through wheelchairs or special education classes or just the fact that even after it grows into adulthood, chances are very likely that it will not be able to live on its own, hence you will have a perpetual pre-teen on your hands until you are no longer fit to take care of it.

Even aside from that, now that I think about it, I wouldn't want that child to live that life. Yes, they would love, but they wouldn't know love like a healthy person would. They wouldn't know the joys of driving a car, or having a job that is more than just fast food service. Mentally retarded people, by law, cannot have sexual intercourse, because they don't legally have the mental capacity to give consent. Do I really want to sentence a person to live that kind of life?

The answer, for me, is hell no.

 

[majesty]

The malicious side of me wants to make a joke here, but that's just uncool and might make someone mad. So scratch that.

I'd probably treat them the same as any other kids. No special "oh but he has _____" treatment. I refuse to treat people who aren't handicapped as second class citizens simply because other people were born with a disability. I also refuse to treat handicapped people as royalty and make special considerations, unless it's something that just makes sense; something like adding a ramp to the house for a wheelchair user. Treating them all equally is fair. It should also help raise the handicapped child to be functional in society barring the sevarity of the handi cap.

Mind you, I plan on making the kids mow lawns, clean animal cages and basically do all the stuff that I don't wanna do around the house...ahhh cheap slavery. As long as they are all treated like equal slaves, I suppose that's what some might call good parenting.

 

[CaptKirby]

DM, I find your reaction to SkarmBlissCounter to be absurd. How is being handicapped scientific? Having a specific disease is one thing, but the word handicap itself is a slur. Just because a slur is mild and not extreme, or because it is not used in a way intending malice, does not keep it from being a slur! It has nothing to do with being sensitive or not, and I think I can lend that at least some credibility, because I am not a very sensitive person at all, but I think slurs are entirely immoral. If the intent of a word is to denigrate a specific group of people, then that is unacceptable, whether or not it is no longer has the same meaning behind it to most people!

 

[aamto]

you guys need to stop looking at this in cases of "extremes." not every child is going to be a <10 IQ drooler that needs constant supervision. naturally, there are varying degrees of severity and I don't think many of you are taking that into account.

For example, I know SEVERAL kids with Down's that went to my high school, and work normal jobs like any other teenager. Obviously they were in special classes in school, but that is a far cry from expensive special education. They attended my high school and were very well integrated into the school system. Hell, I went to school with one kid with Down's Syndome since 3rd grade (obviously not anymore since I am in college and he works). Some are graduated and hold steady jobs at local stores. They are certainly contributing to society. And they are most certainly having fun doing so. Some of these kids are the happiest people I've met in my life.

Clearly this is my personal experience with Down's Syndrome, but all of you seem to be looking at retardation as a blanket end-all, the kid cannot function disability. Which is far from the truth.

 

[Kira]

Okay, off of that tangent and onto the thread topic. I am in favor of abortion in all areas. If your condom breaks, get an abortion. If the bitch lied and she isn't on the pill, get an abortion. If one of your miracle spermozoids makes it through the condom and past her birth control... then, shit, God is telling you to have that child, but you should still have the choice to nix it.

For me, as selfish as it sounds, the decision to abort a fetus that I know is handicapped in some way is more for myself, not the fetus. That handicapped child will always need constant and vigilant care, if not from you then from your mate or some outpatient care. That child will be extremely expensive to keep alive, whether through wheelchairs or special education classes or just the fact that even after it grows into adulthood, chances are very likely that it will not be able to live on its own, hence you will have a perpetual pre-teen on your hands until you are no longer fit to take care of it.

Even aside from that, now that I think about it, I wouldn't want that child to live that life. Yes, they would love, but they wouldn't know love like a healthy person would. They wouldn't know the joys of driving a car, or having a job that is more than just fast food service. Mentally retarded people, by law, cannot have sexual intercourse, because they don't legally have the mental capacity to give consent. Do I really want to sentence a person to live that kind of life?

The answer, for me, is hell no.

This sums up my thoughts pretty well.

 

[akuchi]

yeah, but you don't know how retarded your kid is going to be.. personally I'd say it's far better to not risk it.

Unless you want it, in which case I'm not saying kill children you want!

 

[Mr.378]

I'd abort him, it's for the better, for all the reason above.

 

[Venom]

Really, the kid is just going to come to suffer, but then again, it's your baby we are talking about, another life. I agree with DM.

 

[Taylor]

So what if they can live a happy life? They will always live life not being able to operate normally. If I got in a wreck, and lost my critical thinking capabilities to any large degree, I would commit suicide, assuming I still had the faculty to realize my loss.

It may be a comparison, but I don't think it's close enough to say that.

If your life takes a sudden change, like what you said, you may want to commit suicide as you've lost something in your life that played a major part in it. However, if you're born with it, you don't excpect anything different, you're what you are in that case. Fat people don't care that they're fat as much as an in-shape person would care alot more for becomming it.

Handicaps, who are born with it, don't expect more than what they have.

I agree with DM about the Condom issue. Rape would be added to that list too, if you have been raped, I feel it's right to have an abortion.

 

[Agamemnon]

i find it ironic that the title of the thread is grammatically incorrect. just for reference: "what would you do if your child were retarded?"

however, on topic, do you know if the baby is retarded before it is born? if so that adds a whole new dimension to the discussion.

 

[chaos]

That's not really where I wanted to take the discussion.

Even with the best non-invasive screens, the detection rate is 90%–95% and the rate of false positive is 2%–5% False Positives can be caused by undetected multiple fetuses (very rare with the ultrasound tests), incorrect date of pregnancy, or normal variation in the proteins.

from Wikipedia's entry on down syndrome. Either way, this isn't about how to detect retardations, it's a hypothetical (kinda) question: if it's possible to detect such things, would you abort or raise it?

 

[J-Man27]

Personally, I would raise the child. I am not going to kill the kid because he isnt perfect. In fact, maybe being disabled would promote not aborting him. Since the child will have problems, they will need people to love them and care about them.

So no abortion for me.

 

[akuchi]

just a sidenote: if you really don't want to have a baby, ignore the 'bitch' when she says she's on the pill and use a fucking condom. it's not rocket science.