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Why Weezing should be your physical tank in Platinum
- Thread starter Bourbon
- Start date
Really? I've subbed in spiritomb's face only for their hidden power to not break the sub despite being "super effective." I can't imagine tomb carrying any hidden power outside of fighting that's super effective against ttar. You sure you worked in sandstorm and the 252 hp?
Well ya out of those physical guys I have never seen machamp use a sub, And the fact that scizor has been known to sub is useless trying to do that in front of a weezing.
As for those special attacker using sub is very very usless info because the would scare off most any other physical walls to gain a free sub as well so I don't know were you were going with them.
And anyone who has used or played against a good number of t ars knows that weezing is one of the set up tools so if a t tar switches in on a weezing, then it is a very low possibility that it is a CB version of a t tar.
So no, I'm never temted to WoW a t tar that boldly switched into my weezing.
As for those special attacker using sub is very very usless info because the would scare off most any other physical walls to gain a free sub as well so I don't know were you were going with them.
And anyone who has used or played against a good number of t ars knows that weezing is one of the set up tools so if a t tar switches in on a weezing, then it is a very low possibility that it is a CB version of a t tar.
So no, I'm never temted to WoW a t tar that boldly switched into my weezing.
If I am not mistaken, Tyranitar has 354 SpD in a Sandstorm, and 404 HP. Each substitute has 101 HP, so I checked and Hidden Power Fighting from 220 SpA does 123% minimum to the Substitute.
With 252 SpD EVs and a Careful nature, there is still a slight chance of Spiritomb breaking the sub.
With 252 SpD EVs and a Careful nature, there is still a slight chance of Spiritomb breaking the sub.
@too talls-- it's easy to say that kind of thing in an open discussion like this, but if you play boah on shoddy and you bring ttar into weezing, your odds of setting sub up on a w-o-w are pretty damn good.
And if you've NEVER seen a machamp sub, I'd tell you that it happens. It's off the beaten trail, but the possibility is there.
It's also far from useless for scizor to substutite there. If weezing always goes straight for flamethrower, it's not going to get very far (it's sp.ATK is just too weak to hurt whatever comes in). As for why scizor would want to set up a sub, there's this thing called baton pass, and scizor's pretty good at it.
If I were gyara and I had sub, I would definitely take the opportunity to sub in weezing's face btw. It's not like weezing can afford to take too many water falls per game. It can counter gyarados twice at best if it keeps switching into water falls.
bottom line being: Weezing is prone to having substitute set up on it. I'm just bringing this up to counter the argument that pokemon can't set up on weezing. There are those who can.
And if you've NEVER seen a machamp sub, I'd tell you that it happens. It's off the beaten trail, but the possibility is there.
It's also far from useless for scizor to substutite there. If weezing always goes straight for flamethrower, it's not going to get very far (it's sp.ATK is just too weak to hurt whatever comes in). As for why scizor would want to set up a sub, there's this thing called baton pass, and scizor's pretty good at it.
If I were gyara and I had sub, I would definitely take the opportunity to sub in weezing's face btw. It's not like weezing can afford to take too many water falls per game. It can counter gyarados twice at best if it keeps switching into water falls.
bottom line being: Weezing is prone to having substitute set up on it. I'm just bringing this up to counter the argument that pokemon can't set up on weezing. There are those who can.
Slowbro: 252 hp 252 def 4 hp
Moveset:
Surf
Ice Beam
Slack Off
Flamethrower / Hidden power electric / Toxic
Seriously what can weezing do that slowbro can't? Flamethrower beats scizor (only if you predict it coming in but that shouldn't be too hard since slowbro is scizor bait). Granted that weezing is better against lucarios with crunch, but these days most carry ice punch > crunch.
Top tier pokemon that slowbro beats:
Scizor (if you can predict the switch)
Lucario (without crunch)
Gyarados
Salamence
Heatran
Metagross
Machamp
Pros for Slowbro:
reliable recovery
Counters more threats then weezing
More Physically and specially bulky:
95 hp 110 def 80 sp. def vs. 65 hp 120 def 70 sp. def
Good Special Attack for a wall 100 vs. 85.
Pros for weezing
It gets will-o-wisp
Immune to toxic
Counters Heracross better
No pursuit weakness.
All in all I'd say slowbros Pros outweigh weezing.
IMO slowbro should be your physical wall in platinum, not weezing.
EDIT: happy eskimo already mentioned slowbro.
Moveset:
Surf
Ice Beam
Slack Off
Flamethrower / Hidden power electric / Toxic
Seriously what can weezing do that slowbro can't? Flamethrower beats scizor (only if you predict it coming in but that shouldn't be too hard since slowbro is scizor bait). Granted that weezing is better against lucarios with crunch, but these days most carry ice punch > crunch.
Top tier pokemon that slowbro beats:
Scizor (if you can predict the switch)
Lucario (without crunch)
Gyarados
Salamence
Heatran
Metagross
Machamp
Pros for Slowbro:
reliable recovery
Counters more threats then weezing
More Physically and specially bulky:
95 hp 110 def 80 sp. def vs. 65 hp 120 def 70 sp. def
Good Special Attack for a wall 100 vs. 85.
Pros for weezing
It gets will-o-wisp
Immune to toxic
Counters Heracross better
No pursuit weakness.
All in all I'd say slowbros Pros outweigh weezing.
IMO slowbro should be your physical wall in platinum, not weezing.
EDIT: happy eskimo already mentioned slowbro.
EDIT, looking at the wrong page. Slowbro is quite good though. I would use it before Weezing.
Psychic on Slowbro also does massive damage to Heracross.
Slowbro can kill Heatran, and Infernape... Infact, it makes a great counter for Infernape, coming in on Fire Blast, Close Combat, and HP Ice just watch out for Grass Knot...
Speaking of Grass Knot, Slowbro learns Grass Knot, great for Swampert countering too, since it resists Waterfall/Surf/Ice Beam and can withstand EQ... Something Weezing isn't so good at.
Slowbro also 1hkos Rhyperior, something Weezing cannot do, although it must watchout for Megahorn.
Slowbro however is Tyranitar bait. Skymin can also switch into Surf or Slack Off and threaten with Seed Flare.
ALSO: Please start using Fire Blast calculations for Weezing, instead of F-Thrower, its more useful as Weezings need the extra fire-power (pun intended) and tend to opt for it anyways.
Slowbro can kill Heatran, and Infernape... Infact, it makes a great counter for Infernape, coming in on Fire Blast, Close Combat, and HP Ice just watch out for Grass Knot...
Speaking of Grass Knot, Slowbro learns Grass Knot, great for Swampert countering too, since it resists Waterfall/Surf/Ice Beam and can withstand EQ... Something Weezing isn't so good at.
Slowbro also 1hkos Rhyperior, something Weezing cannot do, although it must watchout for Megahorn.
Slowbro however is Tyranitar bait. Skymin can also switch into Surf or Slack Off and threaten with Seed Flare.
ALSO: Please start using Fire Blast calculations for Weezing, instead of F-Thrower, its more useful as Weezings need the extra fire-power (pun intended) and tend to opt for it anyways.
Rhyperior in Sand with a SDef investment can easily survive a Surf from Slowbro and OHKO it back. The spread 252 HP/16 Atk/12 Def/230 SpD is incredibly powerful anyway off of 140 base attack and Adamant nature, while surviving stuff like Slowbro's Surf. (Off-topic, but I once had Rhyperior survive a Skymin's Seed Flare) Weezing, on the other hand, can Burn it, though it still doesn't like STAB Stone Edge.
Me, I'm indifferent. Weezing counters the current standard Lucario better than other stuff, but Slowbro has reliable recovery and better special attack. However, I personally use Rotom for all my physical defense needs. Reflect lets it defend against a lot of physical attackers well. Overheat beats Scizor, and Discharge cripples a lot of the faster sweepers. CBTar isn't as much of an issue for me, because I just throw up a Reflect as it Pursuits me to death, then I get a free switch to Scizor or Lucario to boost up.
Really, it comes down to whatever you need. If Heracross scares you, Gliscor is the one to use. If Gyarados is your issue, Slowbro's your man. Weezing can handle a stray Lucario. It just depends on who fits your team.
Me, I'm indifferent. Weezing counters the current standard Lucario better than other stuff, but Slowbro has reliable recovery and better special attack. However, I personally use Rotom for all my physical defense needs. Reflect lets it defend against a lot of physical attackers well. Overheat beats Scizor, and Discharge cripples a lot of the faster sweepers. CBTar isn't as much of an issue for me, because I just throw up a Reflect as it Pursuits me to death, then I get a free switch to Scizor or Lucario to boost up.
Really, it comes down to whatever you need. If Heracross scares you, Gliscor is the one to use. If Gyarados is your issue, Slowbro's your man. Weezing can handle a stray Lucario. It just depends on who fits your team.
Well Slowbro counters Lucario as well, (it also resists Ice Punch which is a nice bonus, since it can switch into either Ice Punch, or Close Combat with ease).
Flamethrower/Fire Blast obviously allows it to counter Lucario.
Also, I meant Rhyperior without the Sandstorm Special Defense boost, but you do make a good point.
Flamethrower/Fire Blast obviously allows it to counter Lucario.
Also, I meant Rhyperior without the Sandstorm Special Defense boost, but you do make a good point.
I don't think it can counter Lucario too well. After one SD crunch does Defender HP: 394
Damage: 301 - 355
Damage: 76.40% - 90.10%
So after taking the CC, or stealth rock damage, slowbro is going down
The point is that it counters the hell out of the Ice Punch Lucario that has been used a lot to beat Gliscor.
Adamant max attack Rhyperior can't even OHKO 212 hp/252 def bold Slowbro with CB megahorn, and with that spread you listed megahorn only does 46-54% to Slowbro (assuming you have leftovers and not CB). Weezing doesn't give a shit about stone edge STABed or not if rhyperior is burned. even though weezing can't do much back, its done its job of crippling rhyperior for the rest of the match.
No, no it doesn't.
Why even compare slowbro to weezing, they're completely different. Slowbro has some of the same useful resistances at the expense of a ton of weaknesses, Dark, Ghost, Electric, Grass, Bug, the only trivial weakness he has really is grass seeing as that's generally only carried for Swampert anyways, making it much rarer than the equally effective electric. Weezing's big draws are the lack of easily exploitable weaknesses alongside useful resistances.
Slowbro can take a lot of fighting types, and has the useful ice and fire resistances, but the bug/dark weak means that he's not going to be countering Lucario, Heracross, Scizor, basically all of the things that you'd be using Weezing to counter.
Slowbro has better overall stats too, but it doesn't really matter in a comparison with Weezing. He's not inferior, but he's not superior, just different. If you want to compare Weezing to anything, compare him to the rotom appliances.
Slowbro can take a lot of fighting types, and has the useful ice and fire resistances, but the bug/dark weak means that he's not going to be countering Lucario, Heracross, Scizor, basically all of the things that you'd be using Weezing to counter.
Slowbro has better overall stats too, but it doesn't really matter in a comparison with Weezing. He's not inferior, but he's not superior, just different. If you want to compare Weezing to anything, compare him to the rotom appliances.
When comparing Weezing to Rotom appliances. Weezing has more physical bulk and Pain Split, but Rotom appliance has fighting immunity, electric resistance, Thunder Wave, much more speed and special defense and STAB T-Bolt/Discharge. I'm not saying Rotom a outclasses Weezing, I'm just pointing out what it has over Weezing. Weezing isn't bad at all, it does handle Scizor (to some extent), Weavile, Heracross and others. It also has Haze.
I'm wondering if weezing or rotom takes bullet punch better. Weezing's got a lot more on the physical side, but rotom resists. I could do the calcs but I'm lazy. ><
Also take into account that Weezing's Base Hp is 15 higher than appliance Rotom (65/50). I see Weezing taking it slightly better, but I don't see much difference coming from this.
obviously rotom does. 65/120 isn't so much greater than 50/107 that it makes up for not having a resist.
The thing is that Rotom rarely runs 252/252 Bold, which MIGHT make Weezing more effective, but...
Hey guys, there's a thing called a damage calculator. Try that.
788 Atk (+2 Adamant Scizor Bullet Punch; 252 Atk EVs vs):
Weezing:
252 HP / 252 Def; Bold: 372 Def & 334 HP (60 base power): 136 - 162 (40.72% - 48.5%) - 3HKO; 5.79% of a 2HKO with Stealth Rock / Leftovers
252 HP / 216 Def; Bold: 363 Def & 334 HP (60 base power): 141 - 166 (42.22% - 49.7%) - 3HKO; 24.65% of a 2HKO with Stealth Rock / Leftovers
Rotom-Appliance:
252 HP / 252 Def; Bold: 344 Def & 304 HP (60 base power): 74 - 87 (24.34% - 28.62%) - 4HKO
252 HP / 168 Def; Bold: 321 Def & 304 HP (60 base power): 79 - 93 (25.99% - 30.59%) - 4HKO
The only boosts are STAB and Technician (i.e.: no Life Orb)
788 Atk (+2 Adamant Scizor Bullet Punch; 252 Atk EVs vs):
Weezing:
252 HP / 252 Def; Bold: 372 Def & 334 HP (60 base power): 136 - 162 (40.72% - 48.5%) - 3HKO; 5.79% of a 2HKO with Stealth Rock / Leftovers
252 HP / 216 Def; Bold: 363 Def & 334 HP (60 base power): 141 - 166 (42.22% - 49.7%) - 3HKO; 24.65% of a 2HKO with Stealth Rock / Leftovers
Rotom-Appliance:
252 HP / 252 Def; Bold: 344 Def & 304 HP (60 base power): 74 - 87 (24.34% - 28.62%) - 4HKO
252 HP / 168 Def; Bold: 321 Def & 304 HP (60 base power): 79 - 93 (25.99% - 30.59%) - 4HKO
The only boosts are STAB and Technician (i.e.: no Life Orb)
Oh God, I think both have a win-win chance here. Weezing can barely do squat to it beside Pain Split and W-o-W while Blissey has some advantage by using special attacks.
But honestly, you're better off just running away if you're in a match with Blissey, stall matches against those two make me die inside.