ADV is only in assuming there are 10 slots I'd assume and in that case yes 2v2 would be better. But 4 slots of ss sounds ridiculous. I really don't know how you are going to find the players and teams for 4 slots there is declining interest in the tier to a point where I think almost any other tier would be a better choice. PL has really shown how static SS is and unless this DLC is really game-changing I really wouldn't like to see a fourth SS. Frankly, it's incredibly boring to both build and watch.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
World Cup of 1v1 IV - Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Official Glyx
- Start date
- Status
Some posts here really make me cry, posting unexplained opinions in one-liners is not how you have a debate you guys... but whatever ig
Let me post some opinions:
2nd ORAS
The biggest tiering problem World Cup has had during the last iteration was the 2nd ORAS slot, it feels nonsensical to me that people are arguing to bring that back although a severe amount of players were arguing for it to get removed even during wc 3. So please, don't bring ORAS 2 back.
ADV as 10th slot
On a more important note, I find the argument of "we should not include ADV as 10th slot because it is an undeveloped metagame" to be absolutely invalid. While it might be relatively true that the metagame is not explored that's exactly how you develop it. Adding it to tournaments. Do you believe BW was born as a completely developed metagame, or adding it to tournaments has helped people getting interested in it and developing it? And if that is the case, literally no other metagame is more developed than ADV, since ADV was played in Classic, so your point would be to not add any new metagame ever again to any single team tournament. Doesn't seem like a sweet deal
8 vs. 10 slots
On the 8 slots vs. 10 slots deal, I believe it strictly depends on the amount of sign-ups. If we get enough to make 8 teams, then keep 8 slots, if we need to reduce teams to 6, then up to 10.
The whole "quality of games" thing also doesn't seem like an argument. The first 3 SS slots would feature literally the same exact same people whether there's a 4th SS or not. I understand some people would drop their main tier to fill a 4th SS or an ADV if necessary, but imo it's not as impactful on game quality.
More than anything this gives ADV room for development since it's gonna be in this year's Classic regardless of World Cup tiering, which kinda affirms this metagame is here to stay, unlike SM 2v2; the new SS slot also gives new 1v1 players that are interested in the tier a way to shine, instead of secluding the game to the same confirmed mainers. Just a thought, though.
2v2's inclusion
2v2 as a 10th slot is very interesting. The metagame in itself is not as good as SM was but it's being actively played in a subroom and has a Council that actively cares about the metagame. It kinda bugs me that the TDs haven't even considered/mentioned the idea of including it. I think this is probably gonna be the way to go if we eventually decide on 10 slots instead of 8, considering community response. If it were to be the case I would be more for it than against it.
This would also tie in nicely with the inclusion of Snake Draft in the Tournament Circuit as it would get more people interested in OMs.
Dropping 4th SS entirely
Wh... What? No, seriously, did I read correctly? Did people actually suggest we should have 10 slots with 3 SS?
Now, I understand the general opinion is that SS is worse than SM, but it really still is a fun metagame that offers a lot of variety. Especially since most people's argument is that "people don't experiment" or some stupid bullshit like that. Ok, you don't like the metagame, but judging by 1v1's growth when Sword and Shield dropped and the amount of Old Gen mains that shifted to playing SS and did exceptionally good in it really suggests that a whole lot of people still like it. Also DLC will be dropping soon which will shift the metagame and make it better imo, so really no reason to shift away from current gen when we know DLC is gonna make it better.
Overall my opinion is that 10 slots is the way to go with 4 SS and a 2v2, but only if player count makes this possible.
And this doesn't come from biased Frita cap because I would hugely benefit from 10 slots and ADV in the cup or 2nd ORAS, or even having 3 SS slots lol
Let me post some opinions:
2nd ORAS
The biggest tiering problem World Cup has had during the last iteration was the 2nd ORAS slot, it feels nonsensical to me that people are arguing to bring that back although a severe amount of players were arguing for it to get removed even during wc 3. So please, don't bring ORAS 2 back.
ADV as 10th slot
On a more important note, I find the argument of "we should not include ADV as 10th slot because it is an undeveloped metagame" to be absolutely invalid. While it might be relatively true that the metagame is not explored that's exactly how you develop it. Adding it to tournaments. Do you believe BW was born as a completely developed metagame, or adding it to tournaments has helped people getting interested in it and developing it? And if that is the case, literally no other metagame is more developed than ADV, since ADV was played in Classic, so your point would be to not add any new metagame ever again to any single team tournament. Doesn't seem like a sweet deal
8 vs. 10 slots
On the 8 slots vs. 10 slots deal, I believe it strictly depends on the amount of sign-ups. If we get enough to make 8 teams, then keep 8 slots, if we need to reduce teams to 6, then up to 10.
The whole "quality of games" thing also doesn't seem like an argument. The first 3 SS slots would feature literally the same exact same people whether there's a 4th SS or not. I understand some people would drop their main tier to fill a 4th SS or an ADV if necessary, but imo it's not as impactful on game quality.
More than anything this gives ADV room for development since it's gonna be in this year's Classic regardless of World Cup tiering, which kinda affirms this metagame is here to stay, unlike SM 2v2; the new SS slot also gives new 1v1 players that are interested in the tier a way to shine, instead of secluding the game to the same confirmed mainers. Just a thought, though.
2v2's inclusion
2v2 as a 10th slot is very interesting. The metagame in itself is not as good as SM was but it's being actively played in a subroom and has a Council that actively cares about the metagame. It kinda bugs me that the TDs haven't even considered/mentioned the idea of including it. I think this is probably gonna be the way to go if we eventually decide on 10 slots instead of 8, considering community response. If it were to be the case I would be more for it than against it.
This would also tie in nicely with the inclusion of Snake Draft in the Tournament Circuit as it would get more people interested in OMs.
Dropping 4th SS entirely
Wh... What? No, seriously, did I read correctly? Did people actually suggest we should have 10 slots with 3 SS?
Now, I understand the general opinion is that SS is worse than SM, but it really still is a fun metagame that offers a lot of variety. Especially since most people's argument is that "people don't experiment" or some stupid bullshit like that. Ok, you don't like the metagame, but judging by 1v1's growth when Sword and Shield dropped and the amount of Old Gen mains that shifted to playing SS and did exceptionally good in it really suggests that a whole lot of people still like it. Also DLC will be dropping soon which will shift the metagame and make it better imo, so really no reason to shift away from current gen when we know DLC is gonna make it better.
Overall my opinion is that 10 slots is the way to go with 4 SS and a 2v2, but only if player count makes this possible.
And this doesn't come from biased Frita cap because I would hugely benefit from 10 slots and ADV in the cup or 2nd ORAS, or even having 3 SS slots lol
I strongly advocate for 8 slots over 10 in WC. ADV is underdeveloped and without a dedicated playerbase to put in the time and improve it. I don't see it being in classic this year anyway with SM being an oldgen so I don't think extending its death would do any good.
I also don't think 4 SS slots is the play. Although I understand the reasoning behind forcing tons of swsh players to build and thus help develop the metagame, I think swsh will develop well with just 3 slots. 4 slots would probably burn out swsh players, if anything.
And finally, I think we should remove DPP from WC and the following PLs. With the addition of a new generation, something has to give. I think that DPP should be another tier on the chopping block. I've talked extensively about DPP with influential players in the tier, and many of them have seemed to expressed that DPP is underdeveloped. I've even heard that the hardest part of playing DPP is guessing if your opponent understands the tier well enough to recognize what beats what and thus lure them. This concerns me. I think that DPP has had plenty of time to develop and has yet to, thus forcing DPP players to only practice their craft in classic.
The keen readers will notice that I advocated for the removal of 3 slots from the 10 slot draft, yet still want 8 slots. What could the last one be? 2v2. I think we should add 2v2 in as the final slot in WC. I understand that 2v2 caught a lot of backlash for being somewhat horrible in PL 3, but the metagame has developed and the playerbase has expanded since then. Mubs taking over 2v2 has been the greatest thing for the tier, and what little I've played of swsh 2v2 has led me to believe that it's much better than it was in sm. I think 2v2 deserves a place to shine in WC. It's creative, well-managed, and growing.
Tl;dr: remove the 3rd SS bo5, ADV, and DPP. Add 2v2
I also don't think 4 SS slots is the play. Although I understand the reasoning behind forcing tons of swsh players to build and thus help develop the metagame, I think swsh will develop well with just 3 slots. 4 slots would probably burn out swsh players, if anything.
And finally, I think we should remove DPP from WC and the following PLs. With the addition of a new generation, something has to give. I think that DPP should be another tier on the chopping block. I've talked extensively about DPP with influential players in the tier, and many of them have seemed to expressed that DPP is underdeveloped. I've even heard that the hardest part of playing DPP is guessing if your opponent understands the tier well enough to recognize what beats what and thus lure them. This concerns me. I think that DPP has had plenty of time to develop and has yet to, thus forcing DPP players to only practice their craft in classic.
The keen readers will notice that I advocated for the removal of 3 slots from the 10 slot draft, yet still want 8 slots. What could the last one be? 2v2. I think we should add 2v2 in as the final slot in WC. I understand that 2v2 caught a lot of backlash for being somewhat horrible in PL 3, but the metagame has developed and the playerbase has expanded since then. Mubs taking over 2v2 has been the greatest thing for the tier, and what little I've played of swsh 2v2 has led me to believe that it's much better than it was in sm. I think 2v2 deserves a place to shine in WC. It's creative, well-managed, and growing.
Tl;dr: remove the 3rd SS bo5, ADV, and DPP. Add 2v2
If I'm not mistaken 1v1 Classic IV has been confirmed to have 5 Cups, including both SM and ADV
The point you make is one that has been brought up by Rosa herself and that a considerable amount of people disagreed with. 1v1PL IV had a significant amount of dedicated DPP mains, so much so that basically every single team had a good and dedicated player to represent the slot, not for nothing I ended up marking almost every DPP match as highlight.
I have also heard that the DPP Resources are not being updated and that the Council is not taking their job seriously at all, excluding some very good players from the Council while maintaining inactive players and letting a banned user shadow council, not even sneakily, out in the open like that. Ok.
You seriously bring up some good points that I cannot deny have made me shift my mind on the matter but look at it this way:
- 2v2 is way less developed than DPP, so that should not be the reason behind this tier cut
- Multiple DPP players are so dedicated to the tier that its reclusion might make them not sign-up/not get drafted (i.e. Yami, Spitfire) which would really be non-beneficial due to the fact that the main problem this year's WC has is the lack of players for certain regions.
- There are no dedicated 2v2 mains, most of those that play the tier in the sub room are SwSh players, and seeing how most people would argue to remove the 4th SS slot for lack of good SS players this would significantly worsen this problem.
I honestly don't know what to think of this, since the position 2v2 has is extremely awkward in the current moment, and DPP has been an established metagame for years now.
SS Bo7
SS Bo5 x2
SM Bo5
ORAS Bo5
BW Bo5
DPP Bo5
2v2 Bo5
This is honestly my best proposal for 8 slots. It has slot diversity and keeps DPP while having 2v2 and enough SS slots to satisfy newer players. 1 SM slot kind of sucks but it comes with the territory. Honestly, I would eliminate BW before you get rid fo DPP, that format is very stale and really should look at a Kyub suspect.
We posted a brand new VR and started adding sample sets which is way more than any other OG did during classic lol. The only "good player" we've somehow excluded is probably James complaining about us having 5 legitimate council members and not needing any more.
SS Bo5 x2
SM Bo5
ORAS Bo5
BW Bo5
DPP Bo5
2v2 Bo5
This is honestly my best proposal for 8 slots. It has slot diversity and keeps DPP while having 2v2 and enough SS slots to satisfy newer players. 1 SM slot kind of sucks but it comes with the territory. Honestly, I would eliminate BW before you get rid fo DPP, that format is very stale and really should look at a Kyub suspect.
We posted a brand new VR and started adding sample sets which is way more than any other OG did during classic lol. The only "good player" we've somehow excluded is probably James complaining about us having 5 legitimate council members and not needing any more.
SS bo7
SS bo5
SS bo5
SM bo7
SM bo5
ORAS bo5
BW bo5
DPP /2v2 bo5
SS bo5
SS bo5
SM bo7
SM bo5
ORAS bo5
BW bo5
DPP /2v2 bo5
SS bo7
SS bo5
SS bo5
SM bo7
SM bo5
SM /ORAS bo5
ORAS bo5
BW bo5
DPP bo5
2v2 bo5
SS bo5
SS bo5
SM bo7
SM bo5
SM /ORAS bo5
ORAS bo5
BW bo5
DPP bo5
2v2 bo5
Absolutely not true the meta is continuously being pushed and every week I build new, improved stuff. Players I play against also usually bring new meta threats I've never encountered before.
The kyub suspect should've happened at the start of the metagame but at this point it would be just stupid to have a suspect.
It's just Cottonee, get rid of that. Heard me Kaif? Ban/suspect Cottonee after PL, thanks.
I've got some probably incorrect opinions on this.
Include DPP.
Include 2v2 after Drought is banned (hard to fit with 8 tho).
ORAS 2 is bad because ORAS is bad.
SM 3 also seems like too much.
From what I've seen, Haxball 1v1 seems like it has more interest than ADV 1v1 lol.
EDIT: I don't really feel like 4 SwSh slots is that necessary, but I don't think anything else should take its place for the 10th slot.
Include DPP.
Include 2v2 after Drought is banned (hard to fit with 8 tho).
ORAS 2 is bad because ORAS is bad.
SM 3 also seems like too much.
From what I've seen, Haxball 1v1 seems like it has more interest than ADV 1v1 lol.
SwSh
SwSh
SwSh
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
SM/2v2
SwSh
SwSh
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
SM/2v2
SwSh
SwSh
SwSh
SwSh
SM
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
2v2
SwSh
SwSh
SwSh
SM
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
2v2
Last edited:
Personally I'm fairly onboard with most of the suggestions.
10 seems like the better option, unless there aren't enough players in some regions.
(10)
I'd like to hear opinions on having 1 bo7 SM slot and one Bo5 SM slot, and i definitely agree that 4 swsh slots is a bit excessive, even if it is the current meta.
10 seems like the better option, unless there aren't enough players in some regions.
(10)
SwSh Bo7
SwSh Bo5
SwSh Bo5
SM Bo7
SM Bo5
ORAS Bo5
BW Bo5
DPP Bo5
ADV Bo5
2v2 Bo5
SwSh Bo5
SwSh Bo5
SM Bo7
SM Bo5
ORAS Bo5
BW Bo5
DPP Bo5
ADV Bo5
2v2 Bo5
I'd like to hear opinions on having 1 bo7 SM slot and one Bo5 SM slot, and i definitely agree that 4 swsh slots is a bit excessive, even if it is the current meta.
Are we going to have monopoke?
Number of slots: I want to talk about that first because it obviously has a direct impact on the formats that are played. I think we should stay with two numbers 8 and 10, there has been a slight increase in the number of players after the release of a new generation and for the reason that we should expand by adding 2 more formats. We want our 1v1 World Cup to remain as competitive a format as possible while still giving a number of players the opportunity to play. We collected almost 140 signatures last year out of a total of 96 drafted.
List of formats: We need to persist on the new generation by adding 3 SS slots, which remains mathematically accessible if we want to always attract new players. But the old generation also attracts a lot of us, so I propose to add a Bo3 format (SM, ORAS and BW) as the old generation format among the 10 slots. I'm still a big fan of the old generation and it's also important for everyone to play their favorite format. This is a new proposal, but we should still develop the competitive community by innovating new ideas like mine. I strongly believe that formats should look like this in the near future. 2v2 has also contributed among the competitive formats, so why not integrate it again? As a council now, this community has attracted a lot of new players, with the SS remaining fresh and the tournaments we plan to hold in the coming months will continue to generate collective interest.
Option 1: 8 slots
Option 2: 10 slots
List of formats: We need to persist on the new generation by adding 3 SS slots, which remains mathematically accessible if we want to always attract new players. But the old generation also attracts a lot of us, so I propose to add a Bo3 format (SM, ORAS and BW) as the old generation format among the 10 slots. I'm still a big fan of the old generation and it's also important for everyone to play their favorite format. This is a new proposal, but we should still develop the competitive community by innovating new ideas like mine. I strongly believe that formats should look like this in the near future. 2v2 has also contributed among the competitive formats, so why not integrate it again? As a council now, this community has attracted a lot of new players, with the SS remaining fresh and the tournaments we plan to hold in the coming months will continue to generate collective interest.
Option 1: 8 slots
- SS Bo7
- SS Bo5 x2
- SM Bo5 x2
- ORAS Bo5 x1
- BW Bo5 x1
- 2V2 SS or SM Bo5
Option 2: 10 slots
- SS Bo7
- SS Bo5 x2
- SM Bo5 x2
- ORAS Bo5 x1
- BW Bo5 x1
- DPP or ADV Bo5 x1
- 2v2 SS or SM Bo5
- Best of 3 (SM, ORAS and BW)
We've been asking for the removal of Bo7 since pl3 but nobody cares I guess
name some very good players that aren't in the Council and name inactive players. Don't say "im not going to throw out names" and prove your point instead.
removing dpp after having it in tours for years now is clearly not wise for a metagame that nobody likes or 3 slots on an old gen. What we should be doing is fixing the regions, and not deciding if we want a 2v2 slot.
name some very good players that aren't in the Council and name inactive players. Don't say "im not going to throw out names" and prove your point instead.
Last edited:
i'm dumb and irrelevant but dpp needs to be in 1v1 wc. it makes tours exclusionary and forces captains to pick old irrelevant players like myself to play when otherwise we'd have to pick actual active players (ewwww). that was sarcasm in case it wasn't obvious, but really, oldgens are a great way to introduce new players to older metas and i think dpp shouldn't be excluded for the sake of an extra slot of an already stale meta. just personal opinion though.
1v1 WCoP yay! After missed the last one due to unrelated reasons, I can't wait to see this year
Format: Once that in the mind, what format? 8 vs 10 slot should be the first question, as I'm seeing more the inclusion of 2v2 / ADV like a "bonus thing", something which is obviously a good addition but not the priority of the WCoP format. (Unrelated, but if I had to choose between 2v2 and ADV, I'd say 2v2 and agree with basically everyone, because the metagame seem more active, even if I wonder if 2v2 would be still eligible for OMotM in this case ? Important question, and if no, it's bad.) OK, to come back on the format, I don't think that 10 slots is worth it. Last WCoP had 8 starting slots+4 substitute+captain(s) and it was honestly pretty fine. If we go for 10 slots, I fear that some teams cannot make a solid lineup, being some are forced to have a dead slots because they just doesn't have a player in the tier. Another thing that I'd add, is with 10 starting slots you kinda need another a sub slots, which up you to minimal 16 players in the team. Owo. Aside of the transformed team ambiance that it would result, it make captine life more harder. I think adding more tiers isn't just worth it.
Tiers: I agree that 4 SS is too much, especially considering that we kinda want diversity on tiers. And BO7 is awalys cool, so 1 SS Bo7+2 SS Bo5 seem good. Next is SM. I strongly disagree with putting only a SM slot in the wcop. Yes, it's a old generation now but literally since 6 months from now. The playerbase is honestly large enough for two slots, while only one don't really fit well. Another thing that support the inclusion of a second SM, is that most non-1v1 main that got drafted often know at least a bit of SM, while they still don't know at all about SS, which overall mean to a better ligneup. I see why we would put 2v2, but I don't think that it worth to do this over SM. Also I'm not sure if putting a Bo7 in one of two SM slots is really good, I guess it can be cool anyway. Won't talk about DPP removal because it so subjective imo. Also, yes 2 ORAS shouldn't be a thing anymore.
tl;dr SS Bo7, SS Bo5 (x2), SM Bo5 (x2), ORAS, BW, DPP
I have some idea about team distribution, but oh well. Just doesn't do teams like "US Midwest+Latin America+EU West" please lol, these kind of teams are horrible. And anyway, thanks for reading me and don't forget that Frita will win this time! Jk ya
Maybe that I can look the survey now
Before starting, just something to don't overlook is the date of wcop. Most exactly: before DLC, just after the 1th DLC or a bit after? The first and two weeks of the "SS DLC metagame" will probably be a pain from tiering vue (think: lot of new Pokémon+provably some unban like Necrozma, that should tell enough nah?). I feel it wouldn't encourage people to sign-up in SS 1v1, whatever they are 1v1 main or not. It's especially important to notice that the pool format of the WCoP isn't suited for a "intensive métagame tiering" because the tier is locked for 3 week until R1 is done, due to "tier change rule" in tournament. On the other hand, once the métagame is stabilized, more people could sign-up in a more attractive metagame.
Format: Once that in the mind, what format? 8 vs 10 slot should be the first question, as I'm seeing more the inclusion of 2v2 / ADV like a "bonus thing", something which is obviously a good addition but not the priority of the WCoP format. (Unrelated, but if I had to choose between 2v2 and ADV, I'd say 2v2 and agree with basically everyone, because the metagame seem more active, even if I wonder if 2v2 would be still eligible for OMotM in this case ? Important question, and if no, it's bad.) OK, to come back on the format, I don't think that 10 slots is worth it. Last WCoP had 8 starting slots+4 substitute+captain(s) and it was honestly pretty fine. If we go for 10 slots, I fear that some teams cannot make a solid lineup, being some are forced to have a dead slots because they just doesn't have a player in the tier. Another thing that I'd add, is with 10 starting slots you kinda need another a sub slots, which up you to minimal 16 players in the team. Owo. Aside of the transformed team ambiance that it would result, it make captine life more harder. I think adding more tiers isn't just worth it.
Tiers: I agree that 4 SS is too much, especially considering that we kinda want diversity on tiers. And BO7 is awalys cool, so 1 SS Bo7+2 SS Bo5 seem good. Next is SM. I strongly disagree with putting only a SM slot in the wcop. Yes, it's a old generation now but literally since 6 months from now. The playerbase is honestly large enough for two slots, while only one don't really fit well. Another thing that support the inclusion of a second SM, is that most non-1v1 main that got drafted often know at least a bit of SM, while they still don't know at all about SS, which overall mean to a better ligneup. I see why we would put 2v2, but I don't think that it worth to do this over SM. Also I'm not sure if putting a Bo7 in one of two SM slots is really good, I guess it can be cool anyway. Won't talk about DPP removal because it so subjective imo. Also, yes 2 ORAS shouldn't be a thing anymore.
tl;dr SS Bo7, SS Bo5 (x2), SM Bo5 (x2), ORAS, BW, DPP
I have some idea about team distribution, but oh well. Just doesn't do teams like "US Midwest+Latin America+EU West" please lol, these kind of teams are horrible. And anyway, thanks for reading me and don't forget that Frita will win this time! Jk ya
Last edited:
Yello m'ladies and gentleman, I've heard of a discussion happening around the prestigious tournament known as World cup of 1v1, where continents, regions, countries and all of them mixed together fight for a beautiful 1v1 pixelated trophy, and I would like to participate in such discussion.
On the topic of regions, and metagames, I would like to shed the lights on 6 or 8 teams, and 8 or 10 slots. Our priority concerning the 1v1 e-sports scene is to bring the spectators what they want, and what they paid their internet for, only the best of best of best of best, top dogs, fighting eachother. Therefor, I would like to highlight the fact that we do not have enough top dogs to broaden the slots to 10, and we definitely do not have enough players to have 8 teams again. Some top dogs, don't come online anymore and some are taking the year off from last year. It's however factually correct to say that we have gained some notable new faces, but they aren't enough to fill the holes on some teams. The idea here is to merge regions to form a tournament with 6 teams as some regions just become completely uncompetitive if put alone, see Asia, or way too strong if we follow last year's format see; Central Europe. This is why I would like the borders to be drawn so we can get a highly competitive tournament and not some dead matches. I would also like to note that going and posting on Smogon University.inc e-sports player is not a great technique to gather the right amount of players. I would also like to circle around the idea to not call people clowns on the community's subforum as such used that was attributed the role clown is correct. Individuals tournaments do not represent team tournaments, and a high number of competitors in seasonals do not mean that we're going to get the same number of competitors in the team tournament scene as many factors are different. Seasonal is a tournament hat allow oneself to prosper and show their worth so they can be picked by top dogs, but that does not entail that every seasonal joiner is a great player. We have your average joe, and your below average john that join for fun, we also have your memey other part of Smogon player that just join cause they have nothing to do except steal teams and pick a Pokemon via !Pick, but ye you get my point. A team shouldn't be forced to drafted ilike1v16969 cause they have no other option, nor spectators want to see hugthisant vs jjthegoat20 fighting, nor ilike1v16969 vs 1v1 prodigy ggopw. This is why I think the quality of players available at this very moment cannot carry 8 teams, and specifically the 1v1 userbase will not love to watch 3 good teams vs 5 mediocre teams. This is also proven by the current 1v1PL, where many managers just decided to throw and draft your sub average player, and their result is well, predictable. No offense to anyone, but that's the truth.
On the topic of slots, I cannot highlight enough on why 10 slots would be a disaster. With 8 slots available we already can't fill 8 great games for each team per week, and by expending the slots available we are forced to either add another boring SS slot, an underdevelopped ADV slot, or not even a 1v1 - 2v2 doubles slot which is also still underdevelopped, or a disastrous second ORAS slot, a horrible second BW slot, and another hard to fill DPP slot. All of these are a no-no and would downgrade the quality of the tournament. On the other side, ya'll want to remove DPP which is also a red line, the quality of DPP this PL have been high to say the least, better than most ORAS or BW games which is really something. Every team, with the correct borders implemented, can fill the 8 slots that we already have and let's say don't change anything if it's not broken. Let's just go w/ 8 slots for the better quality of the tournament.
With that being said, I would like to thank the 1v1 tournament directors for giving us the chance to share our opinion because in the end that's what matters in this Sub-Sub-Community that is present on a forum made for a Pokemon simulator. We're present here today to have fun and join exhilarating tournaments. Having the option to give an opinion gives the community the feeling of being present inside such group and this is what matters in the end, the friends we make! Thank you 1v1 tournament directors team for pushing the 1v1 community into being a better one, and making every single member of us feel important! Thank you 1v1 tournament directors for being the right judge in this world full of chaos and bring us the light we need, and deserve, and hopefully pick this time to correct managers and actually have a managers signup thread without feeling the urge to pre-pick managers 1 month before the managers signups. Peace!
On the topic of regions, and metagames, I would like to shed the lights on 6 or 8 teams, and 8 or 10 slots. Our priority concerning the 1v1 e-sports scene is to bring the spectators what they want, and what they paid their internet for, only the best of best of best of best, top dogs, fighting eachother. Therefor, I would like to highlight the fact that we do not have enough top dogs to broaden the slots to 10, and we definitely do not have enough players to have 8 teams again. Some top dogs, don't come online anymore and some are taking the year off from last year. It's however factually correct to say that we have gained some notable new faces, but they aren't enough to fill the holes on some teams. The idea here is to merge regions to form a tournament with 6 teams as some regions just become completely uncompetitive if put alone, see Asia, or way too strong if we follow last year's format see; Central Europe. This is why I would like the borders to be drawn so we can get a highly competitive tournament and not some dead matches. I would also like to note that going and posting on Smogon University.inc e-sports player is not a great technique to gather the right amount of players. I would also like to circle around the idea to not call people clowns on the community's subforum as such used that was attributed the role clown is correct. Individuals tournaments do not represent team tournaments, and a high number of competitors in seasonals do not mean that we're going to get the same number of competitors in the team tournament scene as many factors are different. Seasonal is a tournament hat allow oneself to prosper and show their worth so they can be picked by top dogs, but that does not entail that every seasonal joiner is a great player. We have your average joe, and your below average john that join for fun, we also have your memey other part of Smogon player that just join cause they have nothing to do except steal teams and pick a Pokemon via !Pick, but ye you get my point. A team shouldn't be forced to drafted ilike1v16969 cause they have no other option, nor spectators want to see hugthisant vs jjthegoat20 fighting, nor ilike1v16969 vs 1v1 prodigy ggopw. This is why I think the quality of players available at this very moment cannot carry 8 teams, and specifically the 1v1 userbase will not love to watch 3 good teams vs 5 mediocre teams. This is also proven by the current 1v1PL, where many managers just decided to throw and draft your sub average player, and their result is well, predictable. No offense to anyone, but that's the truth.
On the topic of slots, I cannot highlight enough on why 10 slots would be a disaster. With 8 slots available we already can't fill 8 great games for each team per week, and by expending the slots available we are forced to either add another boring SS slot, an underdevelopped ADV slot, or not even a 1v1 - 2v2 doubles slot which is also still underdevelopped, or a disastrous second ORAS slot, a horrible second BW slot, and another hard to fill DPP slot. All of these are a no-no and would downgrade the quality of the tournament. On the other side, ya'll want to remove DPP which is also a red line, the quality of DPP this PL have been high to say the least, better than most ORAS or BW games which is really something. Every team, with the correct borders implemented, can fill the 8 slots that we already have and let's say don't change anything if it's not broken. Let's just go w/ 8 slots for the better quality of the tournament.
With that being said, I would like to thank the 1v1 tournament directors for giving us the chance to share our opinion because in the end that's what matters in this Sub-Sub-Community that is present on a forum made for a Pokemon simulator. We're present here today to have fun and join exhilarating tournaments. Having the option to give an opinion gives the community the feeling of being present inside such group and this is what matters in the end, the friends we make! Thank you 1v1 tournament directors team for pushing the 1v1 community into being a better one, and making every single member of us feel important! Thank you 1v1 tournament directors for being the right judge in this world full of chaos and bring us the light we need, and deserve, and hopefully pick this time to correct managers and actually have a managers signup thread without feeling the urge to pre-pick managers 1 month before the managers signups. Peace!
I don't have any stakes in most of the stuff and im unsure if I'll play, manage, host or just sit the tour out.
Competitiveness in WC formats:
The main question one must ask is, what is the goal of 1v1wc: quality or inclusivity? As Deg mentioned above, if your goal is to have a very competitive tour one should have less teams and 8 slots to improve the quality of players that will participate. Similarly one should redefine the country border so that every year the teams have a similar strength and size. If your goal is inclusivity then having more teams and/or having more slots seems like the better option, so more people can play and enjoy the tour. I would personally opt for the option of having more teams and less slots, because this allows people to have a closer to bond to their team and also avoids the issue of finding the 10th slot (or even finding a full lineup + subs at all).
The idea of a 1v1wc imo is to fight for your country or region with the people that you share language o something else with, otherwise it will just be more a restricted version of 1v1pl only lacking a proper draft. Also there is inherit uncompetitiveness in the tour because some teams will have more good players then others due to their location and trying to rebalance this with thesplitting and merging of teams will put people together who have no shared culture or language at all (read EU east+Asia). So to think of 1v1wc as some short of pinnacle of skill, seems very naive, especially considering this inherit uncompetitiveness that I alluded to above. Therefore, we should not worry much about the competitiveness of the tour and allow more people to join in and maybe make 1v1pl and esp TTT the more competitive formats, by removing slots there. I think most WC tours, excluding WCoP, should be seen as fun team tours where you can hang out with your fellow countrymen and play some mons.
2nd ORAS
This seem like a bad idea. A lot of tiers do double most recent old gens slots, but idt any of them would include two slots of a tier that is already 5 years old. Therefore I think that players that have no idea or love for the tier will be placed in it and will therefore make the whole experience bad.
So in conclusion:
Competitiveness in WC formats:
The main question one must ask is, what is the goal of 1v1wc: quality or inclusivity? As Deg mentioned above, if your goal is to have a very competitive tour one should have less teams and 8 slots to improve the quality of players that will participate. Similarly one should redefine the country border so that every year the teams have a similar strength and size. If your goal is inclusivity then having more teams and/or having more slots seems like the better option, so more people can play and enjoy the tour. I would personally opt for the option of having more teams and less slots, because this allows people to have a closer to bond to their team and also avoids the issue of finding the 10th slot (or even finding a full lineup + subs at all).
The idea of a 1v1wc imo is to fight for your country or region with the people that you share language o something else with, otherwise it will just be more a restricted version of 1v1pl only lacking a proper draft. Also there is inherit uncompetitiveness in the tour because some teams will have more good players then others due to their location and trying to rebalance this with thesplitting and merging of teams will put people together who have no shared culture or language at all (read EU east+Asia). So to think of 1v1wc as some short of pinnacle of skill, seems very naive, especially considering this inherit uncompetitiveness that I alluded to above. Therefore, we should not worry much about the competitiveness of the tour and allow more people to join in and maybe make 1v1pl and esp TTT the more competitive formats, by removing slots there. I think most WC tours, excluding WCoP, should be seen as fun team tours where you can hang out with your fellow countrymen and play some mons.
2nd ORAS
This seem like a bad idea. A lot of tiers do double most recent old gens slots, but idt any of them would include two slots of a tier that is already 5 years old. Therefore I think that players that have no idea or love for the tier will be placed in it and will therefore make the whole experience bad.
So in conclusion:
- This year we should establish 8 teams and maybe allow any new teams to break off if they want to in the following editions.
- As a format we should pick: SS Bo7, 2x SS Bo5, 2 x SM Bo5, ORAS Bo5, BW Bo5, DPP Bo5 or 1 less SM spot for either ADV or 2v2.
I doubt most people actually agree with that. I agree SM Bo7 would be stupid but there's no reason to remove SS Bo7. It takes longer to build for but most people re-use teams anyway, and it rewards the more consistent player diminishing the impact hax has on the series.
I agree that we shouldn't remove DPP but a lot of people like 2v2 I don't see your point. Also we have to wait for people to compile the Census before discussing regions so this is a useful discussion in the meantime
I never stated I was against throwing out names I just didn't do it. I have no problem naming out who I am referring to.
I don't see what the inclusion of players like Kaif does for the metagame as he has never played DPP in team tournaments and has only shown a decent performance in dpp cup last classic, while players like James155 who has won said Cup and has shown direct interest to participate in DPP Council has been denied such position for no apparent reason. There are other players like xJoelituh, Yami, Spitfire Arcanine that show they have a deep understanding of the metagame and an innovative way to build but I'm not aware of their willingness to be part of the council.
Regarding inactive players I thought Synon wasn't actively updating the VR and Resources but he apparently is, I was wrong, sorry for that. The argument still stays on the fact that dom is shadow council? and he's banned? and afaik he's never played dpp? I have no issue with him personally but idk what's up with that. Definitely think DPP Council should receive an overhaul or at least some changes because it's probably the worst one atm.
This line of reasoning should apply to both generations. Best of 7s are less frequently determined by RNG, they reward players who can pilot a wider variety of teams, and they tend to favor those who can successfully adapt to an opponent's style of play over people who just click Pokemon and ignore their opponent's thought processes. Best of seven is objectively more competitive than best of five, the only downside is unprepared matches taking too long which shouldn't be an issue in a tournament like WC with sufficient team support.
I feel like of the proposed list
would be my proposal. I know that I am hoping to prove of point, with the point being way above anything being proposed before.
#give2v2AChance :)
Code:
SS BO7
SS BO5
SS BO5
SS BO5
SM BO5
SM BO5
ORAS BO5
ORAS BO5 > SS2v2 Bo3
BW BO5
DPP BO5
ADV BO5 > SM2v2 Bo3would be my proposal. I know that I am hoping to prove of point, with the point being way above anything being proposed before.
This one might just be me, but I feel like 2nd ORAS spot feels a bit redundant. ORAS1v1 has had lots and lots of development time, and SS2v2 has barely had any. With the exception of one semi-major 2v2 tournament, this meta has had very little exposure, and has all the settings-up of a meta getting inadvertently pushed away from the tournamentss without even being given a chance to show its nuances. So, I feel like 1v1WC could be a great starting point over which we can generate a convo around 2v2, if not establish it as a staple.
I know this might sound like a hot take, since I am advocating not one but two 2v2 slots here, but I feel like this is within reason; SM is the first gen where 2v2 began to really catch steam among some players, with good consistent players like FIREEEE and Kaif showing us how exciting and yet enjoyable it is. But, the amount of representation it got was, I feel, abruptly cut off by 1) a general and sudden outcry which cited, amongst other things, a lack of interest to the metagame as a reason to get it removed, even though these tours were the only real way to get it represented and to reiterate interest in a "new" tier was just growing, and 2) the 1v1 oldergens playerbase wanting to get some more participation. Of the two major tours SM2v2 was a part of, it did seem to generate some clout, while ADV2v2 has not generated enough clout in the 3 it was a part of. I feel like major eyeball-drawers like 1v1WC would be a great way to gauge what the crowd's (some newer, some from gen7, and others going way back before) opinion and reaction to SM2v2 is.
#give2v2AChance :)
Welcome back, King
The more people, the better. But it means more work to do for pepople who are organizing the event. Also, the same people participating in major tours like this over and over again every year is boring. It is true that having high quality standards is good. But growing is always better. ;). Also, what Elo Bandit said about slots.
Last edited:
Gracias mi amor
- Status